Once again, I have to ask: just WHAT part of "Congress shall make no law, respecting an establishment of religion..." don't these dips get? That doesn't even mention the old saw about free speech meaning accepting speech you don't like.
Of course, Kenai Penninsula Borough could just start their assemblies with: "The meeting will come to order. What is the first order of business?" Is that just too obvious or what?
We are a secular nation, and no meeting of government at any level should begin with an invocation. It is also bedrock constitutional law that our government cannot choose one religion over another. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public square, owned by everyone. It speaks directly to just how weak their message is. I have no idea what these invocations are supposed to accomplish.
How, exactly, is a Christian chaplain going to be neutral regarding religious affiliation? The only "neutrality" they could muster is a generic nondenominational prayer that 𝘮𝘢𝘺𝘣𝘦 has a slight nod to Judaism. And they think that's OK, even after it is pointed out to them (with citations) why it isn't. And they say we are the arrogant and disrespectful ones.
Stop using your cell phones for your public speaking events, people! They’re too small! They keep you from engaging with the people you’re speaking to. If I want to look at people hunched over their phones, I can...well, I can look at pretty much everyone everywhere at all hours.
Memorize your damn speech. If you can’t, do that, use a tablet. Or - here’s a thought: print it out and put it in a binder. It’s not that hard. Do better people!
I have this fantasy about when Christians finally have to admit they are not the majority in this country anymore. The fantasy is that they will acknowledge the will of the majority. But I know that is not what will happen because we already see that they WANT to be persecuted so they will happily be the minority while claiming they have the moral high ground.
If a city council somewhere only gave Satanic invocations and denied Christians the same right, Christians would be in the chamber protesting loudly and begging to be carted off to jail. Them demanding that 'normal' people protest their BS quietly or simply "turn the other cheek" and take it is not what I expect they would actually do in the same place.
Anyone in an elective position who says they need the assistance of a deity to perform their duties is admitting that they are unqualified for the office.
It’s always fun at meetings when their point is to be discriminatory and the invocation is forced in that direction. Even better when they get a kid to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Then the school board (in my personal experience) or whatever makes your group look like horrible people on the news when you’re just exercising your rights.
This is a game of smoke and mirrors. They don’t believe in any of this. But they will go out of their way to make people who actively show their disbelief look like Ted Bundy just walked in the room.
Yet another case where it sure looks like Christians just don't want to share with anyone else. Funny just how much of that is going around these days. For the record, "We the People" does not now and has never meant "this handful of wealthy, white, Christian men who think we know how to run a country better than anyone else." Good governance means making room for people who disagree with you and see things differently from you; not attempting to forcibly convert them.
Praying at assembly meeting is inappropriate. Should members of the Assembly feel the need for Christian prayers prior to conducting government business, they are welcome to do so prior to the meeting and in private, as Jesus himself outlined. The invocations performed during the Assembly meetings have clearly become a bone of contention, which means they are not longer serving their purpose anyway. Either learn to share or expect that your toy will be taken away and nobody will be giving any invocations at all.
"Those groups sued. Those groups won. The borough had to pay over $80,000 in legal fees."
So they broke the law, got sued, and lost a lot of money. But it wasn't their personal money, it was borough money. It's not likely that very many citizens of the borough will feel any pain from the loss of 80 grand. Nobody cares. Anyone who cares at all are just glad that the eeevil atheists and Satanists are thwarted. They see it as the necessary cost of fighting their "spiritual war."
So the Assembly members break the same law again with a slightly different method, and lose again, and pay again, and don't give a shit again, since it isn't and never will come out of their own pockets.
And again. Etc.
It won't stop until they have to pay so much money that the budget is seriously depleted, until important community assets and resources are drastically reduced or lost entirely. It has to hurt so badly that the citizens get mad at the Assembly members instead of just at the eeevil atheists and Satanists. Stop pussy-footing around with these small amounts.
Once again, I have to ask: just WHAT part of "Congress shall make no law, respecting an establishment of religion..." don't these dips get? That doesn't even mention the old saw about free speech meaning accepting speech you don't like.
Of course, Kenai Penninsula Borough could just start their assemblies with: "The meeting will come to order. What is the first order of business?" Is that just too obvious or what?
We are a secular nation, and no meeting of government at any level should begin with an invocation. It is also bedrock constitutional law that our government cannot choose one religion over another. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public square, owned by everyone. It speaks directly to just how weak their message is. I have no idea what these invocations are supposed to accomplish.
How, exactly, is a Christian chaplain going to be neutral regarding religious affiliation? The only "neutrality" they could muster is a generic nondenominational prayer that 𝘮𝘢𝘺𝘣𝘦 has a slight nod to Judaism. And they think that's OK, even after it is pointed out to them (with citations) why it isn't. And they say we are the arrogant and disrespectful ones.
"chaplains who work for the fire and emergency medical service areas."
Get rid of those too.
"“a chaplain could more precisely execute a timely invocation specifically asking for help"
Asking for help from who? The fire department?
OT but inspired by the article’s photograph.
Stop using your cell phones for your public speaking events, people! They’re too small! They keep you from engaging with the people you’re speaking to. If I want to look at people hunched over their phones, I can...well, I can look at pretty much everyone everywhere at all hours.
Memorize your damn speech. If you can’t, do that, use a tablet. Or - here’s a thought: print it out and put it in a binder. It’s not that hard. Do better people!
I have this fantasy about when Christians finally have to admit they are not the majority in this country anymore. The fantasy is that they will acknowledge the will of the majority. But I know that is not what will happen because we already see that they WANT to be persecuted so they will happily be the minority while claiming they have the moral high ground.
If a city council somewhere only gave Satanic invocations and denied Christians the same right, Christians would be in the chamber protesting loudly and begging to be carted off to jail. Them demanding that 'normal' people protest their BS quietly or simply "turn the other cheek" and take it is not what I expect they would actually do in the same place.
I dedicate the song “Losing My Religion” to the Assembly.
Anyone in an elective position who says they need the assistance of a deity to perform their duties is admitting that they are unqualified for the office.
Again, thank goodness for the FFRF. They are truly doing the hard work by holding Christianists’ feet to the fire.
It’s always fun at meetings when their point is to be discriminatory and the invocation is forced in that direction. Even better when they get a kid to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Then the school board (in my personal experience) or whatever makes your group look like horrible people on the news when you’re just exercising your rights.
This is a game of smoke and mirrors. They don’t believe in any of this. But they will go out of their way to make people who actively show their disbelief look like Ted Bundy just walked in the room.
Yet another case where it sure looks like Christians just don't want to share with anyone else. Funny just how much of that is going around these days. For the record, "We the People" does not now and has never meant "this handful of wealthy, white, Christian men who think we know how to run a country better than anyone else." Good governance means making room for people who disagree with you and see things differently from you; not attempting to forcibly convert them.
Praying at assembly meeting is inappropriate. Should members of the Assembly feel the need for Christian prayers prior to conducting government business, they are welcome to do so prior to the meeting and in private, as Jesus himself outlined. The invocations performed during the Assembly meetings have clearly become a bone of contention, which means they are not longer serving their purpose anyway. Either learn to share or expect that your toy will be taken away and nobody will be giving any invocations at all.
The right wing doesn’t need “satanic prayers”--they’ve already got Demon Diaper Don and his unholy entourage of liars, thieves, hypocrites and thugs.
Why the guy with the cowboy hat in Alaska. Does he think he is in Texas?
"Those groups sued. Those groups won. The borough had to pay over $80,000 in legal fees."
So they broke the law, got sued, and lost a lot of money. But it wasn't their personal money, it was borough money. It's not likely that very many citizens of the borough will feel any pain from the loss of 80 grand. Nobody cares. Anyone who cares at all are just glad that the eeevil atheists and Satanists are thwarted. They see it as the necessary cost of fighting their "spiritual war."
So the Assembly members break the same law again with a slightly different method, and lose again, and pay again, and don't give a shit again, since it isn't and never will come out of their own pockets.
And again. Etc.
It won't stop until they have to pay so much money that the budget is seriously depleted, until important community assets and resources are drastically reduced or lost entirely. It has to hurt so badly that the citizens get mad at the Assembly members instead of just at the eeevil atheists and Satanists. Stop pussy-footing around with these small amounts.
Why do Christians hate America?