154 Comments

Once again, I have to ask: just WHAT part of "Congress shall make no law, respecting an establishment of religion..." don't these dips get? That doesn't even mention the old saw about free speech meaning accepting speech you don't like.

Of course, Kenai Penninsula Borough could just start their assemblies with: "The meeting will come to order. What is the first order of business?" Is that just too obvious or what?

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founding

The taxpayers will pay for their stubbornness. They always do.

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With their oil and gas welfare proceeds.

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And their bridges to nowhere, bike paths to oblivion, billions for olympic stadiums that sit empty........

While water systems crumble, schools decay.....

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Uh, the Kenai Peninsula Borough Assembly is not Congress and therefore able to establish a religion for the borough. Duh.

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We are a secular nation, and no meeting of government at any level should begin with an invocation. It is also bedrock constitutional law that our government cannot choose one religion over another. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public square, owned by everyone. It speaks directly to just how weak their message is. I have no idea what these invocations are supposed to accomplish.

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In other words, this rule--and other such rules--is/are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Bleating about "we wanna be *inclusive*" and "we didn't *know*" is just so much sheepshit--*and they know it.* I hope FFRF, Satanists, Pastafarians, and all other non-Christians will for once make common cause and sue the pants off this town, and any other jurisdiction that tries this sort of nonsense. Because you know they will (see comment above--they MUST always piss on "their" territory.)

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That's why I put on rubber booties if I have to go into a government building held by Republicans. Easier to wash the piss off.

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How, exactly, is a Christian chaplain going to be neutral regarding religious affiliation? The only "neutrality" they could muster is a generic nondenominational prayer that 𝘮𝘢𝘺𝘣𝘦 has a slight nod to Judaism. And they think that's OK, even after it is pointed out to them (with citations) why it isn't. And they say we are the arrogant and disrespectful ones.

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City city council members too amateurish at Constitutional governance to do their jobs trying to limit invocations to the professional clergy class.

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In this setting, it would be hard for a Christian chaplain to be neutral. That, at least usually, is not the case for military chaplains, who cannot proselytize and must serve troops of all faiths equally. My wife spent three months in Iraq and Afghanistan shooting a documentary on these chaplains. Some, notably an AF chaplain, just didn't get it, but most did.

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Many troops don't have faith.

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Some, anyway. What's the old adage about no atheists in foxholes?

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While I fully believed the "no atheists in foxholes" saying to be false, I knew it to be false the first time I entered one. 🙂

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Many is just fine. The old adage is false.

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Seems to me that true believers would rely on their gods to protect them, and only atheists would use foxholes for protection.

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It is an old adage. In fact it was minted by legionnaires of the X in Gaul and never mentioned Jehovah.

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Air Force is notorious for pushing the dominionist agenda. Not that the other services are immune, the Air Force Academy has a reputation and the majority of the administration of that service attended the Academy.

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They're closer to Jesus up in those planes.

That or it's the lack of oxygen at altitude.

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Oh, It easily can be done. Odds are none of the usual suspects would consider doing so.

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"chaplains who work for the fire and emergency medical service areas."

Get rid of those too.

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"“a chaplain could more precisely execute a timely invocation specifically asking for help"

Asking for help from who? The fire department?

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The friendly hate monger in the sky. The one that is always cadging money.

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I have this fantasy about when Christians finally have to admit they are not the majority in this country anymore. The fantasy is that they will acknowledge the will of the majority. But I know that is not what will happen because we already see that they WANT to be persecuted so they will happily be the minority while claiming they have the moral high ground.

If a city council somewhere only gave Satanic invocations and denied Christians the same right, Christians would be in the chamber protesting loudly and begging to be carted off to jail. Them demanding that 'normal' people protest their BS quietly or simply "turn the other cheek" and take it is not what I expect they would actually do in the same place.

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What I’d like to see is some honest accounting. When they want to claim that we are a Christian nation, anyone who can vaguely be thought of as Christian gets included. But when it’s time to talk about “true” Christians, hardly anyone is.

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I dedicate the song “Losing My Religion” to the Assembly.

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I dedicate "Bad Religion" and "Don't Need Religion" (both by Motorhead) to them.

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The song doesn't mean what you think:

Stipe has repeatedly stated that the song's lyrics are not about religion. The phrase "losing my religion" is an expression from the southern region of the United States that means "losing one's temper or civility" or "feeling frustrated and desperate." Stipe told The New York Times the song was about romantic expression. He told Q that "Losing My Religion" is also about "someone who pines for someone else. It's unrequited love, what have you."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losing_My_Religion#Composition_and_lyrics

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Wait a minute, 𝙌 is now a journalist‽‽‽

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Anyone in an elective position who says they need the assistance of a deity to perform their duties is admitting that they are unqualified for the office.

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Again, thank goodness for the FFRF. They are truly doing the hard work by holding Christianists’ feet to the fire.

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Any religion for that matter. I am a member and I donate.

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OT but inspired by the article’s photograph.

Stop using your cell phones for your public speaking events, people! They’re too small! They keep you from engaging with the people you’re speaking to. If I want to look at people hunched over their phones, I can...well, I can look at pretty much everyone everywhere at all hours.

Memorize your damn speech. If you can’t, do that, use a tablet. Or - here’s a thought: print it out and put it in a binder. It’s not that hard. Do better people!

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You are absolutely correct. As a listener it annoys me when the speaker have no contact with the crowd. When I speak I make sure I have contact with the listeners. After all, I have a message I want them to remember.

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founding

It’s always fun at meetings when their point is to be discriminatory and the invocation is forced in that direction. Even better when they get a kid to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Then the school board (in my personal experience) or whatever makes your group look like horrible people on the news when you’re just exercising your rights.

This is a game of smoke and mirrors. They don’t believe in any of this. But they will go out of their way to make people who actively show their disbelief look like Ted Bundy just walked in the room.

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Yet another case where it sure looks like Christians just don't want to share with anyone else. Funny just how much of that is going around these days. For the record, "We the People" does not now and has never meant "this handful of wealthy, white, Christian men who think we know how to run a country better than anyone else." Good governance means making room for people who disagree with you and see things differently from you; not attempting to forcibly convert them.

Praying at assembly meeting is inappropriate. Should members of the Assembly feel the need for Christian prayers prior to conducting government business, they are welcome to do so prior to the meeting and in private, as Jesus himself outlined. The invocations performed during the Assembly meetings have clearly become a bone of contention, which means they are not longer serving their purpose anyway. Either learn to share or expect that your toy will be taken away and nobody will be giving any invocations at all.

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Dec 26, 2023·edited Dec 26, 2023

They can pray in church. They can pray at home. They can pray in their cars/on public transportation. Jesus, isn't that enough?

Jesus told his followers not to show their supposed piety in public. Not just by praying in public but ANY showing of public piety. He said they'd get no reward in heaven from his father if they did so.

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The right wing doesn’t need “satanic prayers”--they’ve already got Demon Diaper Don and his unholy entourage of liars, thieves, hypocrites and thugs.

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Why the guy with the cowboy hat in Alaska. Does he think he is in Texas?

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I keep hoping someone comes to work in a bubble helmet and a white backpack with a NASA logo and point out that that makes them an astronaut in exactly the way that pointed-toe snakeskin boots and a stetson makes someone a cowboy.

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Virtue signaling. What virtue they're trying to signal is, of course, the next question. Maybe it's got something to do with riding caribou and herding snowshoe hare....? 🤔

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My Dogesses' vet wore a Stetson hat. France is +8000 kilometers from Texas 😁

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When I lived in Germany back in the '80s, many of them seemed to have a bit of a thing for Western wear, American country music, etc.

I suppose lederhosen and dirndls get boring after a while. 😉

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As boeuf bourguignon and serre-tête. Give me black mushroom "chicken" and Chinese hair pins with tassels any day 😁

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On one of those hour-long news shows in the eighties, they did a segment on British country music fans. The Brits all believed that the musicians wore six-shooters everywhere they went.

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Then they went from lederhosen to garters and stockings .

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My dad prefers wide brimmed hats, most of which resemble cowboy hats. When we moved to Colorado, I found a Stetson store that was closing and had a really good sale, and bought him a real Stetson hat. He still has it and wears it out all the time. I grew up in Minnesota, he’s from Ohio and now resides in Tennessee. He never claims to be a cowboy but he likes the hat.

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Yeah I actually wear one myself. 😄 (Ohio.)

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founding
Dec 26, 2023·edited Dec 27, 2023

"Those groups sued. Those groups won. The borough had to pay over $80,000 in legal fees."

So they broke the law, got sued, and lost a lot of money. But it wasn't their personal money, it was borough money. It's not likely that very many citizens of the borough will feel any pain from the loss of 80 grand. Nobody cares. Anyone who cares at all are just glad that the eeevil atheists and Satanists are thwarted. They see it as the necessary cost of fighting their "spiritual war."

So the Assembly members break the same law again with a slightly different method, and lose again, and pay again, and don't give a shit again, since it isn't and never will come out of their own pockets.

And again. Etc.

It won't stop until they have to pay so much money that the budget is seriously depleted, until important community assets and resources are drastically reduced or lost entirely. It has to hurt so badly that the citizens get mad at the Assembly members instead of just at the eeevil atheists and Satanists. Stop pussy-footing around with these small amounts.

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Dec 26, 2023·edited Dec 26, 2023

It was probably an insurance company's money, as it was with the Brevard County Commission case that Hemant cited. The question becomes, when are insurance companies going to refuse to pay for clear-cut constitutional violations?

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I’m always happy when FFRF (and others) get financial support from dimwits. 80 grand paid by dimwits or the insurance company is 80 grand that didn’t come from our pockets.

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Why do Christians hate America?

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Democracy is anti-biblical.

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𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐹𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐹𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 𝐶𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡.

-- Aron Ra

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Then why did Jesus write the Constitution?

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He was stoned that day.

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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

"OW! Mom!"

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Dec 26, 2023·edited Dec 26, 2023

Immaculate conception/virgin birth doth have its little pitfalls, savior. 😜

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️🎵 Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good

They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would

They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home

Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone

But I would not feel so all alone

Everybody must get stoned ️🎵

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z5n0XGHMFM&pp=ygUnQm9iIER5bGFuIC0gIkV2ZXJ5Ym9keSBNdXN0IEdldCBTdG9uZWQi

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I even read those lyrics nasally.

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Why did Jesus fail out of medical school?

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Dec 27, 2023·edited Dec 27, 2023

Cuz' he got nailed by the boards. Ba-dum-bump.

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They call Jesus their king yet he said his kingdom wasn't of this world.

They conveniently forgot that we fought a revolution to get away from kings and religious (read: Christian) tyranny.

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Minor detail.

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