173 Comments

All bureaucracies tend to be self-perpetuating. None more so than religious institutions. While religion and morality are not mutually exclusive, they are very far from the same thing. By trying to fight against the victims of sexual abuse at the hands of their institution, the Southern Baptists demonstrate the disconnect between religion and morality about as well as it can be. They are attempting to circle the wagons and protect their church, while offering up thoughts and prayers for their victims. And they wonder why fewer, and fewer people are showing up on Sunday mornings.

Expand full comment

Black churches are full. Still wondering what Jesus is offering them?

Expand full comment

My understanding is community. A tradition of being one of the very few places African-Americans were allowed to come together. They have other options now but that peer pressure from dead people takes time to buck.

Expand full comment

Jesus? Feh! It's Slayer that's putting people in those churches...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF-10c261Vw

Expand full comment

I don't get it either.

Expand full comment
Comment removed
October 28, 2023
Comment removed
Expand full comment

Just like in the Bible. Makes sense.

Expand full comment

In other news, water is still wet, bears shit in the woods, and Francisco Franco is still dead.

Expand full comment

It’s the same old same old crap they have been doing for years. Dodge the question if it gets too close to the truth. Deflect the subject to something else. If you are too uncomfortable just ignore them. If it makes you angry, accuse them of blasphemy. When all else fails, call them stupid. If it appears that a biblical story is too fantastic and requires the suspension of physics, just deny it. And in the end, when they are about out of their wits— they may promise to pray for you. It’s that last one that curls my short hair. I find it to be disrespectful and insulting.

Expand full comment

If it makes you feel any better, if I had a nickel for every time I've heard the phrase "bless your/his/her heart" in a Southern Baptist church, Bill Gates would be begging me for a loan.

Pretty sure it's intended to be disrespectful and insulting. I know the attitude always comes off as smug, superior, and obnoxious in the most passive-aggressive way imaginable. And then they don't get why nobody wants to go anywhere near a church anymore.

Expand full comment

OT

Maine breathes a little easier now. Robert Card, the Lewiston shooter, was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Expand full comment

Never have I been more appreciative of the option of "liking" a comment than this one.

Expand full comment

Indeed. "Any man's death diminishes me?" John Donne lived in the 17th Century. What would he have made of Card and his fellow gun crazies.

Expand full comment

It's too bad that Card didn't simply turn the gun on himself to begin with and left everyone else out of his personal nightmare.

Expand full comment

It still diminishes us.

If We were better, he wouldn't have had the poorly-treated mental health issues nor access to arms while in crisis. No one should have had to suffer.

Expand full comment

I don't consider hate a mental health issue. I have mental health issues, never used a gun on someone else. Did consider using one on myself in public.

Expand full comment

So true. People who are mentally ill are more often the victims of crime, not the perpetrators.

Expand full comment

There goes Trump's Secretary of Homeland Security.

Expand full comment

Stephen King said the gun Card used is as easy to buy as a sandwich.

Yet the ammosexuals will still contend that it's too early to talk about gun legislation.

Expand full comment

Hunh.

It would be interesting to compare yearly sales of firearms and sandwiches and figure out how many casualties the US would suffer if sandwiches were as lethal as firearms.

Expand full comment

Guns vs butter, as Eisenhower warned. It's a close call, fat 'murica has a death wish.

Expand full comment

From Wikipedia: 'The phrase goes back to American policy as it entered the First World War, then infamously used by Nazi leader Hermann Göring in 1936 – “Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat.”'

This is the Republican platform. Lots of guns, and no health care policy for fat 'murrica, led by fat POS Donald J(esus) Trump.

Expand full comment

Yes, now is not the time to get into the petty politics of gun control. All our collective energy must be diverted to thoughts and prayers for the victims, so that God can figure out what to do next.

Expand full comment

And, of course, after the Thought & Prayers period, we need time to let feelings calm, so we won't be able to discuss gun control then, either.

And, of course, after feelings have settled, we're too distant from the tragedy to sensibly express our thoughts, so we won't be able to discuss gun control then, either.

And, of course, after that - or quite possibly long before then - there will be another shooting and it's Thought & Prayers time again.

In short, the time when one can legitimately discuss gun control in the gun violence cycle is literally never.

Expand full comment

Well, you know, it's not like important people are dying. If important people were dying, well, we'd be forced to do something right now!

/cynicism

Expand full comment
Comment removed
October 28, 2023
Comment removed
Expand full comment

My state has some of the strictest firearms laws in the country. And that was BEFORE we passed additional gun control legislation last year.

Expand full comment

Susan Collins was going to nominate him, and she had Lisa Murkowski's support.

Expand full comment

I almost said yesterday that he would probably be found dead having killed himself. So many of them seem to do that. But to be honest I'd rather he was tried in a court, found guilty, and punished by society.

Expand full comment

Okay, here's my question: if the SBC has been helping member priests in avoiding charges of sexual abuse of their congregants, does that make them complicit in those crimes? Does that not make the SBC an ACCESSORY to those same crimes? And if so, why hasn't that same tack been used against the Catholic Church to force recognition of its complicity in the widespread occurrences of child sexual abuse under its auspices?

Ain't one of these questions rhetorical ... and I think some serious and considered answers are overdue.

Expand full comment

That's exactly the sort of question that juries are supposed to decide on, right? Which means, as Hemant says, the right path forward here is to let the victim (or to be neutral, accuser) have their day in court. If there's no evidence the organization knew or was complicit, then the right end point is "organization not guilty" not "no trial held."

The only thing I'd say in their defense is that victims should probably go after the locals before they go after the nationals. If SBC is agreeing to transfer the priest to avoid a lawsuit, it could be because someone local told the SBC what was going on and said "you'd better transfer this guy to avoid a lawsuit," or it could be because someone local told the abuser "I know what you did; request a transfer or I tell." IOW, a national organizational transfer *might* indicate the organization knew, but *probably* indicates some more local person knew.

Expand full comment

I especially like the (Scottish?) verdict of 'Not Proven' for these kinds of cases.

Expand full comment

Christians being pro-life is just another lie in a religion built on lies.

Expand full comment

I remember reading a commentary by arch-Catholic Michael Voris on his "Church Militant" website that said that God killed Ruth Bader Ginsburg so that Amy Coney Barrett could take her place.

Expand full comment

Is there any doubt left that religion should forever be denied a seat at the table of governance?

Expand full comment

Are you saying "I will not vote for this bill because it has more pages the Bible" is NOT a compelling argument?/s

Expand full comment

Only in the same sense of saying 'This bill has more pages than a Stephen King novel'

Expand full comment

"more pages than the Bible"

Expand full comment

God waited a bloody long time to kill Ginsberg though didn't he? It's a pity the devil didn't put the idea of retirement into her mind.

Expand full comment

He told Adam that if he ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he would die.

Well Adam certainly died. 930 years after he ate that fruit.

Expand full comment
Comment removed
October 28, 2023
Comment removed
Expand full comment

Their “god,” who is supposed to be both omniscient and omnipotent is 1) Really bad at its jobs and/or 2) Incredibly mean. Either way, it’s definitely not something I’d want to follow much less worship.

Expand full comment

This based on a deity born to a virgin who himself was a virgin...or gay. (Assuming historical Jesus actually existed, since his name didn't come up until centuries later when it was decided to make him God.)

Expand full comment
Comment removed
October 28, 2023
Comment removed
Expand full comment

Sacrilege. That's not in God's plan. It would require introspection, humility and an ability to adapt to reality. That ain't written in the Bible.

Expand full comment

The real reason they are kicking and screaming is that deep down, where they fear to look, they'll find the evil face of those rapes and assaults and harassment and it'll be the face their God.

Expand full comment

And lest we forget (and we won't!):

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑂𝑙𝑑 𝑇𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑢𝑛𝑝𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑖𝑛 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛: 𝑗𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑖𝑡; 𝑎 𝑝𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑦, 𝑢𝑛𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡, 𝑢𝑛𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑔𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙-𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑘; 𝑎 𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒, 𝑏𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑑𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡𝑦 𝑒𝑡ℎ𝑛𝑖𝑐 𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟; 𝑎 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑜𝑔𝑦𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑐, ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑝ℎ𝑜𝑏𝑖𝑐, 𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑖𝑠𝑡, 𝑖𝑛𝑓𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑙, 𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑙, 𝑓𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑙, 𝑝𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑙𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑙, 𝑚𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑙𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑎𝑐𝑎𝑙, 𝑠𝑎𝑑𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑠𝑜𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑐, 𝑐𝑎𝑝𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑙𝑦 𝑚𝑎𝑙𝑒𝑣𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑏𝑢𝑙𝑙𝑦...

-- Richard Dawkins

Expand full comment

I’ve long been astonished that Christians can claim with a straight face that, yes, the Yahweh of the Old Testament was a petty, vengeful, murderous jerk, but that everything was set right by Jesus (according to the fanfic of his most devoted followers, known as the New Testament). But that’s got it exactly backwards.

Sure, if you did something that pïssed off the easily irritated Yahweh, he’d smite you where you stood, plus your family and half the innocent bystanders in the surrounding county as collateral damage. But that was it. Dead. Done. Finito. Period. Game Over. Sayonara. Hasta la vista. It wasn’t until Jesus came along that they invented the concept of “No no no, my friend, we’re gonna fry your sorry äss FOREVER! And not just for the actions you actually performed but for some of those naughty little THOTS you’ve been having!”

Think about it. Which of these 2 arrogant, flaming sadists was actually worse?

Expand full comment

Personally I think it's a tie for first. Let's remember that the J guy said, himself, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17) With that statement, he effectively endorsed all the crap done by his dear old dad. Swell, eh? [no, not really] Add that to the innovation of hell and you have a pair I would NEVER want to hold in my hand, let alone draw to.

Expand full comment

Morality and ethics are the domain of humans. Gods are amoral and can do what they wilt. All the evils of the world were released from Pandora's jar except one, hope. The Gods kept that for themselves. Humankind is better off in a hopeless world without religion.

Expand full comment

"Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain."

Friedrich Schiller

Expand full comment

Almost what I meant. Their God's face staring back is a reflection. Of course there is no God or gods or demons, it's all just humans and various facets of their psyches. Gods are said to be amoral to absolve those authors who wrote that palaver, not a description of reality. That's the whole point of any religion to escape from death and the horror of realizing that oneself is a barely civilized and barely in control beast, barely different from tigers or the rabbits...

Expand full comment

𝑇ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑙𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑙 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑔𝑦 𝑙𝑒𝑑 𝑆𝐵𝐶 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑜𝑤𝑛𝑝𝑙𝑎𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑐𝑜𝑝𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑡𝑜 𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑠𝑢𝑟𝑣𝑖𝑣𝑜𝑟𝑠 𝑎𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑚𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑤𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑡𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑜𝑛 𝑎 𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑙𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑙 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑦𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑠.

Copying what the RCC has been doing for centuries.

Expand full comment

Read the title and thought: Of course.

After consulting their lawyers they should have consulted their PR folks and realized this was a bad idea.

Expand full comment

But, but, but jebus is their PR guru.

Expand full comment

Jesus is not just their CEO, he's also a customer.

Expand full comment

For the younguns and the non Murikns, there was a commercial for hair replacement. The spokesperson said he wasn't just the CEO, he was also a customer.

Expand full comment

I knew it!! That full lustrous head of hair is fake.

Expand full comment

Christians often ask the question "Why don't the victims come forward sooner?" My normal answer is usually an impatient "Because of people like you largely." It's not a simple question than there are no simple answers and Christians love simple answers otherwise they wouldn't be Christians. I used to point them in the direction of an article by an NZ policeman who had dealt with many accusations of rape and sexual assault. I can't find it – but I notice now there is a plethora of information on the Internet from counsellors and psychologists about this topic. Not that it will have the slightest effect on Christian apologists. They have the "truth".

I'm taking a break from my local political blog because the place has become a hive of conspiracy theorists and general nuttery, in spite of the blog owner some months ago saying he'd stop it. You can only take so much of this shit without going crazy, and I want to live to 116.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/28/want-to-live-to-116-the-secret-to-longevity-is-less-complicated-than-you-think

Expand full comment

''Why don't victims come forward sooner?' Because until recent decades, one simply didn't challenge authority, that's how clergy, teachers, police officers etc got away with it. Had I had such an experience, there's no way I could have told my parents, I'd probably have been punished for lying about that fine upstanding priest I was accusing. They'd have been so embarrassed. I'm not sure I knew the P-word or the V-word back then, the media certainly didn't refer to genitalia by their names....but had I claimed inappropriate touching by an adult and used them, my mother would have washed my mouth out with soap. It's so hard for younger generations to understand how life was back then. I'm delighted my g/kids know the correct anatomical names for all parts of their bodies and - dog forbid - if inappropriately touched, know who to report it to, and that they'll be believed!

Expand full comment

None of the pew peons who pay for this farce seem to care one bit. Such "good christians".

Expand full comment
Comment removed
October 28, 2023
Comment removed
Expand full comment

Agree with everything in that quote except the "but he has never read it" qualifier.

Expand full comment

Another premium Nietzsche quote ... THANKS!

Expand full comment

There excuse for the amicus is "my lawyer told me to do it". That excuse is similar to what religious wrong doers have used since time immemorial: "The Devil made me do it." I guess they think it is better to go with the devil they know than take a the hard path toward truth, justice, reconciliation, and recompense for the victims.

Expand full comment

On topic sort of: Mike Pence fails God, suspends presidential campaign in front of a Jewish conservative audience; doubles down to elect sane Republicans (he won't find any):

Former Vice President Mike Pence has suspended his campaign for president amid lagging poll numbers and financial challenges, vowing to help elect “principled Republican leaders” moving forward.

“After much prayer and deliberation, I have decided to suspend my campaign for president effective today,” Pence said at the Republican Jewish Coalition’s annual conference in Las Vegas on Saturday.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/28/politics/pence-suspends-white-house-bid/index.html

Expand full comment

I guess prayer works because Mike Pence won't be President.

Expand full comment

Trump would be the first one to mock Biden if the latter made the same mistake.

Expand full comment

His goon squads have been mocking Biden for dementia for years now.

Expand full comment

I think it's in the double digits now that Ronny Jackson has gone on Fox and "diagnosed" Biden with cognitive decline, even though the latter has never personally examined the former and is not a patient of his.

Expand full comment

I suddenly don't feel bad about my senior moments.

Fortunately, we probably won't see Trump holding a bund rally here in San Jose...er, Seattle. ;)

Expand full comment

I wish he was in Sioux Falls, that's South Dakota and not Iowa.

Expand full comment

His confusion is understandable, seeing as he's always suing and being sued.

Expand full comment

As if Donald Trump would be welcomed in either city.

Expand full comment

Ah yes, “Rape the children, protect the abuser” as Jesus once said.

Expand full comment

Suffer, little children! ~ J. H. Christ

Expand full comment

“The Ark Encounter is one way to bring people to this recognition of the truth, that what we read in the Bible are actual historical events,” Speaker of the house Mike Johnson

Expand full comment

Reanimation ward again‽‽‽ You need better pencillers and inkers.

Expand full comment

God knows where Mike Johnson is.

Expand full comment

Mandatory:

The stupid. It burns.

Expand full comment

But were you there???? Check mate atheist

Expand full comment

Ham loves spouting "Were you there?" I always answer "No, Ken. And neither were you."

Expand full comment

I hate, HATE the fact that I can't eat a ham and Swiss sandwich without realizing that the first part of the meal is also the last name of that chowderhead. *smiles*

Expand full comment

Swap out the ham with Canadian back bacon. :)

Expand full comment

While watching SCTV and listening to The Guess Who ("American woman, stay way from meeeeeee!").

Expand full comment

I and that publicity whore with a reality telly show on BBC were there.

Expand full comment

Having no access to to Brit reality shows, I have to ask: Who dat?

Expand full comment

Don't be cheeky.

Expand full comment

but he has a book that was?!?!

Expand full comment

A book written by humans who witnessed the first humans being created.

Expand full comment

It's an honor just to be nominated.

Expand full comment