Now sweetie, we've talked about this. You're being logical again and most Christians have a severe allergy to that. We don't want more exploding heads, do we?
This morning I had a fleeting thought about the concept of being a part of something bigger than yourself. It pertains to this because of the higher power thing that’s a part of the 12 step and AA programs. Many folks talk about this idea of thinking about god as being that something bigger, thinking beyond your own wants and needs in order to serve a higher power. But, not that I think this is a new thought or I’m a great thinker or whatever, simply by being human I am a part of something bigger, the human race, also a creature living on this Earth. What religion, specifically Christianity but also the other monotheistic religions, do is remove humans from the bigger something of the Earth. Making humans rule over the world, like Christianity says we are stewards and the Earth was made for us to use, we are no longer part of nature, giving an excuse to ignore the real impact we have on the world around us. We even see politicians expressing this idea as an excuse to not address climate change, either mentioning god or just that we couldn’t possibly do anything that affects the world.
Religion also creates tribes so that we don’t band together as human beings, we must separate into countries, races, religions, genders, etc. It shuts us down to learning and accepting others, and in the USA leads to this supposed rugged individualism that has become toxic in many ways.
I want to be a part of something bigger than myself, just as this is part of the human condition, but I want to be a part of humanity, a part of the world and nature, but I don’t need the magical sky daddy to do it, nor do I need it to be spiritual, I just need to acknowledge that we are all people, we all have value, what we do has consequences and benefits, and that even though I am an individual, most of my experiences are not completely unique.
The spiritual or religious aspects of the 12 step program seem counterintuitive to me as the religious have been fighting the concept of brotherhood forever. As they also fight the concept of taking personal responsibility for personal growth, which I didn’t mention but is a part of the thought I had this morning.
I went to rehab in the 1990s, typical Christian based 12 step program. I was already questioning being a Catholic, hadn't been to church in 20 years, and just could not deal with all the religion and the "higher power" nonsense.
But I sat down with one of the counselors and he told me a "higher power" didn't have to be God or some religious figure- I could be my own higher power- the better, sober person within me trying to get out. If nothing else, rehab proved to me I didn't believe in religion or gods.
And I got sober and stayed that way, so there's that.
The difference here is that WVDCR is specifically demanding a Christian higher power.
But to my point is that being a part of humanity or just resident of Earth is not a power, it’s bigger than me or any individual, but there’s no thinking deity or plan behind it.
“Not going through the 6- to 12-month program results in a penalty that deems you more of a security threat.”
“That, American Atheists claimed, is a problem because the RSAT handbook is chock full of Christianity.”
“The people in charge said he had no choice but to go through the Christian program. As a result of his pushback, he was denied parole three separate times, with the board specifically citing the non-completion of the RSAT program as a significant reason he wasn’t allowed to go free.“
So essentially what West Virginia Division of Corrections and Rehabilitation is saying is that atheists and non-Christians are inherently a security risk, or are bad. That’s funny because statistically people going to prison tend to be Christian more often than not, and even with the coercion naked into the system, the percentage of atheists in prison is scant, not even a percentage point of the prison population. And nowhere near the same representation of the population of the country.
Either they admit that they’re forcing their religion on people unconstitutionally or they admit that their religion has no effect on the morals or behaviors of people. Neither looks good on them.
I know they just ignore the facts. They only look at it in a way that makes them look good, but folks are waking up to reality and they might not be able to avoid it forever.
This is what happens when Christianity is taken as the default and assumed to be the norm. It is exactly this brand of thinking that needs to be excised from our government [rotsa ruck!].
Right now, in too much of the United States, treatment programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous and RSAT are the DEFAULT, in part because the people who make the laws haven't informed themselves of any alternatives and partly because they see religious programs as automatically good, WITHOUT INVESTIGATING THEM. They also fail to recognize that the programs they mandate might be meted out to people who aren't necessarily Christian. In the case of Andrew Miller, they ran up against an instance where the person in question had NO religious faith and rightfully objected to having religion foisted on him without his consent.
This is the brand of thoughtlessness which pervades too much of a government which is supposed to be secular and too often isn't. It is also why I strongly believe that people coming into government in any capacity need to have an orientation into what it is to have a truly secular government and all the implications that entails, with examples like that of Andrew Miller front and center.
A thorough understanding of the US Constitution should be mandatory for anyone entering the halls of government.
After all, they'll be swearing an oath to support and defend that document. They should realize what that oath means and how violating it should bring both swift reprisal and the offender's ouster from government.
A few years back, Hemant wrote an article about some Congressman from one of the flyover states who said about an issue, "Someone should make a law about that." Such ignorance forced me to write the grade school dropout and point out to him that if he had paid attention in his 6th grade social studies class he would know that he holds a job with the primary purpose of making laws.
When I was a member of the Eta Nu chapter of Phi Theta Kappa, one of our sponsors was a state representative. Lars was young looking and would occasionally get carded. He would grouse about it, then when the person carding him would say, "It's the law." He would pull out his legislator's ID and say, "I make the laws."
The people who make the laws want the onus placed on the non-religious to find an alternative, and then denybot because they can't (refuse to) afford to implement that alternative.
I suspect in most cases the religious programs are cheaper, for the government. It's just like the idea that 'privatizing' government will save tax money. Yes it will but it will increase costs to the users. In the case of religious treatment programs, that cost is mental instead of monetary.
I feel I should point out it's only cheaper in the very short run - as in, the Christianized program costs less than a nonreligious program might cost. In the longer run, it costs more because those who attend the Christianized program are so likely to wind up in prison on similar charges again and likely to go through the same Christian program again and again. It's actually in their best interest to 𝑛𝑜𝑡 help these people, and it's harder to hold them accountable for it.
It wouldn't surprise me that a program whose effectiveness is on a level with AA (which is to say, piss-poor) might be less expensive than a program which is evidence-based and researched for precisely what gives rise to a positive outcome. Those programs which rely on faith strike me as being less likely to have that kind of rigor.
The twelve steppers invaded Hollywood, then the Scientologist followed in their footsteps.
𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐈𝐫𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐨𝐟 𝐀𝐥𝐜𝐨𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐬 𝐀𝐧𝐨𝐧𝐲𝐦𝐨𝐮𝐬
A public-relations specialist and early AA member named Marty Mann worked to disseminate the group’s main tenet: that alcoholics had an illness that rendered them powerless over booze.
<snip>
Mann helped ensure that these ideas made their way to Hollywood. In 1945’s The Lost Weekend, a struggling novelist tries to loosen his writer’s block with booze, to devastating effect. In Days of Wine and Roses, released in 1962, Jack Lemmon slides into alcoholism along with his wife, played by Lee Remick. He finds help through AA, but she rejects the group and loses her family.
<snip>
We’ve grown so accustomed to testimonials from those who say AA saved their life that we take the program’s efficacy as an article of faith. Rarely do we hear from those for whom 12-step treatment doesn’t work. But think about it: How many celebrities can you name who bounced in and out of rehab without ever getting better? Why do we assume they failed the program, rather than that the program failed them? Charlie Sheen, Lindsey Lohan, Seymour Phillip Hoffman, Robin Williams.
"It is not up to Mr. Miller to decide whether or not he is to use his religious freedoms. In order for it to be a freedom, it uses must be mandatory. For if the state does not force Mr. Miller to exercise his religion freedom, then how can one say that the freedom even exists? So in order to preserve his religious freedom, this court orders he to free to attend the church of the court's choice. After all too much freedom is also bad. If there are no limitations on freedom, how would we even know what free is. " Clarence Thomas, soon.
Good on Miller. Submitting is such a christian trait, they're trained to submit, be like a flock of sheep and so forth. Atheists don't have such constraints. He has values and was willing to prolong his captivity for them. Guy's got some yuge nads, I tell you what!
Yanno, as a kid in Sunday School, that offended me more than most of the other stuff. I am not a sheep, more of a small predatory bird, like a kestrel.
If Christianity was worth a damn, then why do Christians make up the vast majority of the inmate population of US prisons? People like Miller represent essentially a tiny blip on that prisoner population.
On my drive back home this weekend, I saw an ad a la Burma shave that said “Thugs aren’t going to wait for the cops to show up, guns save lives”. Maybe there was a sign or two that I missed but that’s the gist of the message. First off, thugs is a dog whistle for black person or a replacement for the n word nowadays. Second, guns save white lives is what they’re going for because the so called thugs generally don’t survive when Rambo’s “protect themselves.” Third, this is the thinking that killed three people a few weeks back, the child ringing a doorbell, a woman at the wrong car and a person pulling into the wrong driveway, all innocent people, all innocent mistakes on their part, all dead because of thinking like that expressed on the signs. Guns do not save lives, they take lives, that is the purpose of a gun, full stop. There are the folks who you’re talking about and who put up signs like this who believe that certain people deserve to live and certain people that don’t simply because of the color of their skin. (Perhaps the god they pray to or don’t pray to and other aspects of their beings)
Well, Christians often tell me that the obviously coercive threat of eternal hell is not meant to be a restriction on my free will by god. So I suppose the same concept applies here.
"We're not forcing anyone to do anything! We're just making it better for them if they do and worse for them if they don't!"
. . .
As a further note, how weak does your message have to be that you literally have to create a coercive program for someone who is literally already in prison to promote it. Talk about lacking faith!
The concept of hell is actually one of the reasons they feel able to or obliged to proselytise you and interfere in your life. They are saving you from hell. If only they'd mind their own damned business.
Well, if there's one thing I've learned talking to Christians it's that Hell is a terrible and regrettable but entirely central core of faith and also a completely extra-biblical concept that has nothing to do with actual faith.
This probably could count as two things, but the topic is theism so doublethink is a given.
I guess that the answers "Nothing at all" and "A big waste of time" to the questions “what God means to me” and “what prayer means to me.” are completely acceptable and will have no negative effect on the decisions of the parole board. /s
As the parole board denied his release for illegal reasons, can this be considered to be a case of unlawful detention? Can the members of the parole board be prosecuted for kidnapping?
It has long disturbed me that these programs, all to often endorsed by the government one way or another, push Christianity so very hard but don't seem to actually accomplish the goal in the end: actually making people's lives better. AA programs might produce Christians, but don't seem to help folks with their alcohol problem nearly as often. Why are we, as taxpayers, purchasing a product that doesn't seem to work from what amounts to a special interest group instead of looking for something that might be more successful in preventing recidivism and producing contributing members of society? I feel like for Christianity, this is just a way of getting money out of the government in the name of Jesus more than an actual effort at producing better people.
So yes, it bothers me that we allow this at all. Quite a bit. Good luck, Mr. Miller, I sincerely hope you turn your life around.
At best, all 12-step programs accomplish is to wean people off one kind of addictive behavior and replace it with another--reliance on a "higher power." That is hardly a cure, except in a very limited sense of the term.
There's no evidence that explicitly Christian rehab programs have greater success than non-Christian rehab programs, so the only reason to force someone into one is because of your own personal biases.
The purpose of treating an addict is to get them better and functional, to help them deal with their trauma and the factors and choices that led them where they are. Cognitive behavioral therapy can help with that.
This was inexcusable.
"Some of the required homework involves telling the course leader “what God means to me” and “what prayer means to me.”"
I don't suppose saying that since the least of these are the ones Jesus reportedly identified with, then denying someone in need the help they require is spitting in the face of God would help his case with the religious bigots.
But the price is right for all those judges and prisons.
Since AA doesn't give hard numbers it's hard to compare it against institutional (science-based) programs, which themselves are at least perceived to have high recidivism rates. (how many people talk about multiple trips to rehab)
There is a study (Massachusetts General Hospital’s (MGH) Recovery Research Institute) that shows AA works better than clinical treatment for long term abstinence. The authors concluded it was due to the social support and low cost. So secular social support programs should work just as well for people that prefer a non-religious program.
Prisoner: I have ethics!
Parole board: You're not Christian.
Prisoner: That's right but I have ethics!
Parole board: But if you are not Christian then you don't have ethics.
Prisoner: Do Christian ethics include not lying?
Parole board: Of course! It's right there in our ten commandments.
Prisoner: But if I say I'm Christian then I would be lying and that would go against my ethics and yours.
Parole board: It's okay to lie as long as you say you are Christian.
Prisoner: Then Christian ethics are inferior to my ethics.
Now sweetie, we've talked about this. You're being logical again and most Christians have a severe allergy to that. We don't want more exploding heads, do we?
/snark
We don't?
I suppose it is hard on the cleaning staff.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Exploding+heads+Kingsman+movie&view=detail&mid=0DCA4A019F10037C03000DCA4A019F10037C0300&FORM=VIRE
I gotta see that movie. Saw part of a sequel whilst at the gym on a treadmill.
I love the movie. And the church fight scene is epic.
"This video contains content from TF1 (TV Content), who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds"
TF1 is a French channel 🤣
Too complicated for West Virginians. I live a stone’s throw from WV. Trust me on this.
Jim Justice runs West Virginia. What an oxymoron.
Beat me to it.
Good. What kind of insanity was that attempt at denying him his rights to begin with anyway?
Try to force a Christian to embrace atheism and you'd hear PERSECUTION!!!
But it's different because reasons! What's special pleading?
“Special”. Like “specially good”?
“Democrat”. “Democrat party”.
You’re not very good at this.
It would seem the prisoner has more integrity than the entire incarceration system in WV.
Low bar. ; )
This morning I had a fleeting thought about the concept of being a part of something bigger than yourself. It pertains to this because of the higher power thing that’s a part of the 12 step and AA programs. Many folks talk about this idea of thinking about god as being that something bigger, thinking beyond your own wants and needs in order to serve a higher power. But, not that I think this is a new thought or I’m a great thinker or whatever, simply by being human I am a part of something bigger, the human race, also a creature living on this Earth. What religion, specifically Christianity but also the other monotheistic religions, do is remove humans from the bigger something of the Earth. Making humans rule over the world, like Christianity says we are stewards and the Earth was made for us to use, we are no longer part of nature, giving an excuse to ignore the real impact we have on the world around us. We even see politicians expressing this idea as an excuse to not address climate change, either mentioning god or just that we couldn’t possibly do anything that affects the world.
Religion also creates tribes so that we don’t band together as human beings, we must separate into countries, races, religions, genders, etc. It shuts us down to learning and accepting others, and in the USA leads to this supposed rugged individualism that has become toxic in many ways.
I want to be a part of something bigger than myself, just as this is part of the human condition, but I want to be a part of humanity, a part of the world and nature, but I don’t need the magical sky daddy to do it, nor do I need it to be spiritual, I just need to acknowledge that we are all people, we all have value, what we do has consequences and benefits, and that even though I am an individual, most of my experiences are not completely unique.
The spiritual or religious aspects of the 12 step program seem counterintuitive to me as the religious have been fighting the concept of brotherhood forever. As they also fight the concept of taking personal responsibility for personal growth, which I didn’t mention but is a part of the thought I had this morning.
We are all part of something greater than ourselves, the religious included.
It's called the universe
Yes, that’s what I’m saying. I just don’t attribute any intention or magic to the universe.
Which God created in one day.
6. Then he rested on the 7th.
What all-powerful god needs 6 days? Or needs to rest?
He was watching college football.
Nah, YHVHs a hockey fan.
Ironically, he has New Jersey Devils posters on the walls of his man cave.
Yahweh's original home is in Secaucus, NJ. He invented the NJ Turnpike on the 8th day.
I went to rehab in the 1990s, typical Christian based 12 step program. I was already questioning being a Catholic, hadn't been to church in 20 years, and just could not deal with all the religion and the "higher power" nonsense.
But I sat down with one of the counselors and he told me a "higher power" didn't have to be God or some religious figure- I could be my own higher power- the better, sober person within me trying to get out. If nothing else, rehab proved to me I didn't believe in religion or gods.
And I got sober and stayed that way, so there's that.
I’m glad it worked for you.
The difference here is that WVDCR is specifically demanding a Christian higher power.
But to my point is that being a part of humanity or just resident of Earth is not a power, it’s bigger than me or any individual, but there’s no thinking deity or plan behind it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noY_0UXo2G4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTWD52ny0Wk
Hmmmmmmm ... prefer this. 😁
“Not going through the 6- to 12-month program results in a penalty that deems you more of a security threat.”
“That, American Atheists claimed, is a problem because the RSAT handbook is chock full of Christianity.”
“The people in charge said he had no choice but to go through the Christian program. As a result of his pushback, he was denied parole three separate times, with the board specifically citing the non-completion of the RSAT program as a significant reason he wasn’t allowed to go free.“
So essentially what West Virginia Division of Corrections and Rehabilitation is saying is that atheists and non-Christians are inherently a security risk, or are bad. That’s funny because statistically people going to prison tend to be Christian more often than not, and even with the coercion naked into the system, the percentage of atheists in prison is scant, not even a percentage point of the prison population. And nowhere near the same representation of the population of the country.
Either they admit that they’re forcing their religion on people unconstitutionally or they admit that their religion has no effect on the morals or behaviors of people. Neither looks good on them.
I know they just ignore the facts. They only look at it in a way that makes them look good, but folks are waking up to reality and they might not be able to avoid it forever.
This is what happens when Christianity is taken as the default and assumed to be the norm. It is exactly this brand of thinking that needs to be excised from our government [rotsa ruck!].
I think he's owed for the additional time served for refusing to pretend to be a christian. Give him some reparation!
But Val it's not the same at all there is more christians imprisoned because (include scapegoat du jour).
Right now, in too much of the United States, treatment programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous and RSAT are the DEFAULT, in part because the people who make the laws haven't informed themselves of any alternatives and partly because they see religious programs as automatically good, WITHOUT INVESTIGATING THEM. They also fail to recognize that the programs they mandate might be meted out to people who aren't necessarily Christian. In the case of Andrew Miller, they ran up against an instance where the person in question had NO religious faith and rightfully objected to having religion foisted on him without his consent.
This is the brand of thoughtlessness which pervades too much of a government which is supposed to be secular and too often isn't. It is also why I strongly believe that people coming into government in any capacity need to have an orientation into what it is to have a truly secular government and all the implications that entails, with examples like that of Andrew Miller front and center.
A thorough understanding of the US Constitution should be mandatory for anyone entering the halls of government.
After all, they'll be swearing an oath to support and defend that document. They should realize what that oath means and how violating it should bring both swift reprisal and the offender's ouster from government.
A few years back, Hemant wrote an article about some Congressman from one of the flyover states who said about an issue, "Someone should make a law about that." Such ignorance forced me to write the grade school dropout and point out to him that if he had paid attention in his 6th grade social studies class he would know that he holds a job with the primary purpose of making laws.
When I was a member of the Eta Nu chapter of Phi Theta Kappa, one of our sponsors was a state representative. Lars was young looking and would occasionally get carded. He would grouse about it, then when the person carding him would say, "It's the law." He would pull out his legislator's ID and say, "I make the laws."
https://youtu.be/MJiBjfvltQw
Just like what happened to Trump?
All the more need for what I mentioned.
The people who make the laws want the onus placed on the non-religious to find an alternative, and then denybot because they can't (refuse to) afford to implement that alternative.
I suspect in most cases the religious programs are cheaper, for the government. It's just like the idea that 'privatizing' government will save tax money. Yes it will but it will increase costs to the users. In the case of religious treatment programs, that cost is mental instead of monetary.
I feel I should point out it's only cheaper in the very short run - as in, the Christianized program costs less than a nonreligious program might cost. In the longer run, it costs more because those who attend the Christianized program are so likely to wind up in prison on similar charges again and likely to go through the same Christian program again and again. It's actually in their best interest to 𝑛𝑜𝑡 help these people, and it's harder to hold them accountable for it.
Makes it look a bit different, doesn't it?
Recidivists even have a built in excuse. “The devil made me do it.”
(Ah, memories of Flip Wilson.)
"thoughtlessness which pervades too much of government" All too true, about a lot more than religion.
Could it be that the christian programs are cheaper too ?
It wouldn't surprise me that a program whose effectiveness is on a level with AA (which is to say, piss-poor) might be less expensive than a program which is evidence-based and researched for precisely what gives rise to a positive outcome. Those programs which rely on faith strike me as being less likely to have that kind of rigor.
And frequently, rigor costs money.
The Atlantic article I quoted covers that too.
The twelve steppers invaded Hollywood, then the Scientologist followed in their footsteps.
𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐈𝐫𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐨𝐟 𝐀𝐥𝐜𝐨𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐬 𝐀𝐧𝐨𝐧𝐲𝐦𝐨𝐮𝐬
A public-relations specialist and early AA member named Marty Mann worked to disseminate the group’s main tenet: that alcoholics had an illness that rendered them powerless over booze.
<snip>
Mann helped ensure that these ideas made their way to Hollywood. In 1945’s The Lost Weekend, a struggling novelist tries to loosen his writer’s block with booze, to devastating effect. In Days of Wine and Roses, released in 1962, Jack Lemmon slides into alcoholism along with his wife, played by Lee Remick. He finds help through AA, but she rejects the group and loses her family.
<snip>
We’ve grown so accustomed to testimonials from those who say AA saved their life that we take the program’s efficacy as an article of faith. Rarely do we hear from those for whom 12-step treatment doesn’t work. But think about it: How many celebrities can you name who bounced in and out of rehab without ever getting better? Why do we assume they failed the program, rather than that the program failed them? Charlie Sheen, Lindsey Lohan, Seymour Phillip Hoffman, Robin Williams.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
Then there a TV shows like 𝑀𝑜𝑚 that revolve around the characters 12 step programs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mom_(TV_series)#Synopsis
"It is not up to Mr. Miller to decide whether or not he is to use his religious freedoms. In order for it to be a freedom, it uses must be mandatory. For if the state does not force Mr. Miller to exercise his religion freedom, then how can one say that the freedom even exists? So in order to preserve his religious freedom, this court orders he to free to attend the church of the court's choice. After all too much freedom is also bad. If there are no limitations on freedom, how would we even know what free is. " Clarence Thomas, soon.
"𝘉𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘶𝘳𝘱!" - Justice Kavanaugh, concurrence.
If Christianity lets you drink beer and bang drunk chicks, what's wrong with that?
It's a commandment. 😇
Thank you for that high-octane nightmare fuel, I so hate resting well when I sleep. /s
"What god and prayer mean to me..."
I'm an atheist. Neither means a damn thing to me.
Good on Miller. Submitting is such a christian trait, they're trained to submit, be like a flock of sheep and so forth. Atheists don't have such constraints. He has values and was willing to prolong his captivity for them. Guy's got some yuge nads, I tell you what!
He should sue for it since the judge agreed.
"Because Mr. Miller has shown a clear likelihood of a constitutional violation, he has shown irreparable harm."
Yanno, as a kid in Sunday School, that offended me more than most of the other stuff. I am not a sheep, more of a small predatory bird, like a kestrel.
So that's what loyalty gets ya! Kinda like with TFG, demands loyalty but it only runs one way.
"the courts have “unanimously” agreed the religious content of those programs violated the Constitution."
Clearly it hasn't gotten to the Supreme Court yet. Kavanaugh would put down the beer bong long enough to shout "you gotta Jeeezus!" I bet.
The same Kavanaugh Christine Blasey Ford accused of sexual misconduct. The same Kavanaugh that the FBI got over 4500 tips on about his...boofing.
I still wake up hoping today is the day I hear Kavanaugh and Thomas were in a fatal car vs tree (Or K-Rail, I'm not that picky) DUI.
Note, I do feel some sympathy for the tree. It's sacrifice will be remembered.
I'd chip in for a trip down to see the Titanic.
Apparently, the company now wants to send tourists to Venus. I'm down with that, Venus is lovely this time of year and the billionaires will enjoy it.
Victims of a mass shooter would be poetic justice.
True, but I prefer fantasies with no collateral damage.
Caught in an anonymous hotel room together?
First, gross🤮🤮 Second, it's not going to remove them from the bench, so no.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perched_on_a_Tree
If Christianity was worth a damn, then why do Christians make up the vast majority of the inmate population of US prisons? People like Miller represent essentially a tiny blip on that prisoner population.
The MagaBigots will point out that the majority in prison are the wrong TYPE (IOW COLOR) of xtian.
After all if they were REAL xtians and THAT color then they should still be happily serving their masters like the good book says.
On my drive back home this weekend, I saw an ad a la Burma shave that said “Thugs aren’t going to wait for the cops to show up, guns save lives”. Maybe there was a sign or two that I missed but that’s the gist of the message. First off, thugs is a dog whistle for black person or a replacement for the n word nowadays. Second, guns save white lives is what they’re going for because the so called thugs generally don’t survive when Rambo’s “protect themselves.” Third, this is the thinking that killed three people a few weeks back, the child ringing a doorbell, a woman at the wrong car and a person pulling into the wrong driveway, all innocent people, all innocent mistakes on their part, all dead because of thinking like that expressed on the signs. Guns do not save lives, they take lives, that is the purpose of a gun, full stop. There are the folks who you’re talking about and who put up signs like this who believe that certain people deserve to live and certain people that don’t simply because of the color of their skin. (Perhaps the god they pray to or don’t pray to and other aspects of their beings)
Then you'd think they would fall all over themselves to release Miller ASAP, as he is whiter than sour cream.
Bit of trouble with consistency, the Brownshirts have.
He is not a christian, even the wrong kind, at all. That make him a traitor by default.
Unlike that orange xtian who tear gassed protestors for a photo op with an upside down/backwards bible in front of a church he never set foot in.
You know...the guy who fomented an insurrection to overturn a legal election.
Fake Muse* !
*Speech impairment due to the degradation of an alleged brain.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/388b75c72a94f357eb6774357a9ee552c5ea505cefa404d934e629f75c12e8c7.jpg
I might run from them.
That's a question only Ron DeSantis can answer. This message is paid for by DeSantis for President.
Well, Christians often tell me that the obviously coercive threat of eternal hell is not meant to be a restriction on my free will by god. So I suppose the same concept applies here.
"We're not forcing anyone to do anything! We're just making it better for them if they do and worse for them if they don't!"
. . .
As a further note, how weak does your message have to be that you literally have to create a coercive program for someone who is literally already in prison to promote it. Talk about lacking faith!
...and what does it say about the quality of the program that someone would opt for 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘯 as the only available alternative?
The concept of hell is actually one of the reasons they feel able to or obliged to proselytise you and interfere in your life. They are saving you from hell. If only they'd mind their own damned business.
More like "nice soul you have there... shame if something were to 𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘯 to it."
Well, if there's one thing I've learned talking to Christians it's that Hell is a terrible and regrettable but entirely central core of faith and also a completely extra-biblical concept that has nothing to do with actual faith.
This probably could count as two things, but the topic is theism so doublethink is a given.
I guess that the answers "Nothing at all" and "A big waste of time" to the questions “what God means to me” and “what prayer means to me.” are completely acceptable and will have no negative effect on the decisions of the parole board. /s
As the parole board denied his release for illegal reasons, can this be considered to be a case of unlawful detention? Can the members of the parole board be prosecuted for kidnapping?
It has long disturbed me that these programs, all to often endorsed by the government one way or another, push Christianity so very hard but don't seem to actually accomplish the goal in the end: actually making people's lives better. AA programs might produce Christians, but don't seem to help folks with their alcohol problem nearly as often. Why are we, as taxpayers, purchasing a product that doesn't seem to work from what amounts to a special interest group instead of looking for something that might be more successful in preventing recidivism and producing contributing members of society? I feel like for Christianity, this is just a way of getting money out of the government in the name of Jesus more than an actual effort at producing better people.
So yes, it bothers me that we allow this at all. Quite a bit. Good luck, Mr. Miller, I sincerely hope you turn your life around.
In Christian-centric programs like this, pushing the religion is the main thrust. All else is secondary.
Kind of like Christian charities. "Help" with strings attached.
At best, all 12-step programs accomplish is to wean people off one kind of addictive behavior and replace it with another--reliance on a "higher power." That is hardly a cure, except in a very limited sense of the term.
And by putting all your eggs in the "higher power" basket, it obviates the need to think critically or independently.
There's no evidence that explicitly Christian rehab programs have greater success than non-Christian rehab programs, so the only reason to force someone into one is because of your own personal biases.
The purpose of treating an addict is to get them better and functional, to help them deal with their trauma and the factors and choices that led them where they are. Cognitive behavioral therapy can help with that.
This was inexcusable.
"Some of the required homework involves telling the course leader “what God means to me” and “what prayer means to me.”"
I don't suppose saying that since the least of these are the ones Jesus reportedly identified with, then denying someone in need the help they require is spitting in the face of God would help his case with the religious bigots.
I did a search engine with the words "new study shows AA ineffectual."
My my. Hit after hit showing that AA just doesn't work.
But the price is right for all those judges and prisons.
Since AA doesn't give hard numbers it's hard to compare it against institutional (science-based) programs, which themselves are at least perceived to have high recidivism rates. (how many people talk about multiple trips to rehab)
There is a study (Massachusetts General Hospital’s (MGH) Recovery Research Institute) that shows AA works better than clinical treatment for long term abstinence. The authors concluded it was due to the social support and low cost. So secular social support programs should work just as well for people that prefer a non-religious program.
Jesus himself plans to appeal the ruling in District court. Jesus is represented by the law firm of Goldberg, Goldman and Goldstein.