While I'm more than glad to hear that the AHA won this one, I must say I really do wish these shenanigans had been stopped sooner. The damage has already been done to so many children, and I rather doubt most of them are going to get any help with it.
Christians complain entirely too often about the alleged persecution they have to live with, but never acknowledge all the privileges they get to enjoy. This is an abuse that was allowed to exist and continue specifically because the religion involved was Christianity, as Hemant has already pointed out; any other faith would have been shut down before anything could start. Seems to me that half the problem with Christians these days stems from either an inability to be honest with themselves, or a desperate need to control everyone else and force outsiders to behave like 'proper Christians'.
Allowing Christians that kind of authority over children isn't even on the table, I'm straight up unwilling to see it without complaint. Children are vulnerable to all kinds of stuff adults do, and preaching in the classroom is taking advantage of kids specifically because they're susceptible. No. This is never acceptable under any circumstances. Take your precious bibles back to you church and stay out of the public educational system for good, Christians; the article shows that kids will lie to you just to make you go away so you're not 'winning people for Christ' anyway. Save some gas and some pollution, and stay away.
P.S.:I believe there are passages in the Christian bible about the conversion of the extremely young, but I'm not looking it up right now.
"The Missionaries class consists of singing songs and playing games..."
I'd really like to know more about those fundie "games." Did they play Pin the Tail on the Muslim? Blind Man's Sin (That Caused Him to be Blind)? Jump (the Lynching) Rope? Cowboys and Infidels (with real guns, of course)? Did they have a game where one child was "It" and had to pretend to pick up sticks on the Sabbath while everyone else threw rocks at them? Did kids learn how to start a fire by rubbing sticks together, to burn witches, Jews and gays alive? Yessirree, those games must have been a barrel of fun.
That's nothing. As a long time fan of televised theology, I can tell you that there have been christian game shows on christian TV. One was "Bible Baffle," hosted by one Regis J. McKillip, a real live wire of a host who, I'm guessing, could toss a wet blanket the length of a studio.
But best of all back, in the 80s, was "Bible Bowl," a kids' game show that pitted the Bible Boys against the Gospel Girls. It was hosted by an elderly preacher who called himself "Coach Don," and every week, if the Bible Boys were behind at the end of the show, Coach Don would produce a really easy bonus question for them (never for the girls), which of course they always answered, giving them the victory. Then the Gospel Girls would have to sit quietly and watch the Bible boys celebrate their win with ice cream and cake. Now what could be nicer than that--or more christian? Teach 'em to be submissive young, that's the ticket! The show was canceled mysteriously, mid-season, amid rumors Coach Don had gotten a bit too friendly with some of the Bible Boys. (You can make your own "end zone" joke.)
I thought they didn't believe in the "Big Bang/Big Crunch" eternal cycle. (Yes, I know the Big Crunch is just one hypothesis of how the universe ends, there's also the Big Dark and probably others)
"It was appalling behavior that went on for too long, in part, perhaps, because no one knew it was wrong or no one wanted to rock the boat."
A classic example of Christian Privilege. They're not ignorant, they're ARROGANT. They definitely knew it was illegal, but they think the law should not apply to them because... Jesus. They enlisted the kids, some unwillingly through intimidation, to be accomplices in keeping it a secret. "Don't say that God isn't real, or you'll get in trouble," really was "...or we, your teachers will get in trouble."
"As of this writing, no public statement has been posted on the district’s website."
The Surgeon General has warned that holding one's breath waiting for that could be hazardous to your health. And don't assume that any of the other requirements, such as the staff re-education will be promptly fulfilled either. Check back again and again. And once it all seems to be over and everyone's behaving, They're going to start something else just as inappropriate. If it took a lawsuit to get them to stop this, they haven't changed their privileged attitude. It's still in there.
"If it took a lawsuit to get them to stop this, they haven't changed their privileged attitude. It's still in there."
Can confirm. I grew up in a fundie cult that would see something like this as a temporary setback, a machination of the devil, a roadblock, a test of faith, what-have-you. Upon being thwarted on rare occasions (this was the Deep South, and they got away with some shit you wouldn't believe and most everybody thought that was just the way things were supposed to be) in any endeavor such as the one described above, that privileged attitude would manifest itself in much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth about the persecution, oh *such* persecution God's people must endure in order "to bear witness and bring lost souls to Jesus." (Ay-yi-yi, I can still hear that phrase being thundered from the pulpit as if it were yesterday.)
And then they'd pray up a storm until they figured out a way come back at it from a different angle.
So yes. This Oklahoma School District bears watching. Closely. For a very long time.
How much actual learning is going on in this school district when they spend this much time indoctrinating children throughout the year? I mean, just the simple time restrictions of the school year are daunting enough to cover all the curriculum required to move one grade to the next, to cut out this much time for this is unconscionable. How many kids from this district started college (or even trade school) at a fatal disadvantage?
How bad is your religion when a five year old, hearing about it for the first time, can see it for the obvious scam it is? It is so unbelievable a toddler can dismantle it.
Thank goodness for this family and I hope they can stay safe as they now navigate a hostile Christian environment.
Conservative Christians never stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars. Their burning need to indoctrinate children with ideas an educated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time, speaks directly to just how weak the Christian message is. It is never the job of the public schools to backstop anybody's religion.
In "The God Delusion" Richard Dawkins suggested that religion should be like many other things in society, have a minimum age . Driving, voting, buying alcohol ,....
Then religion would be almost completely gone in a couple of generations.
I remember when I was at high school – and there's no formal church state separation here you realise – the Gideons I think it was, came round and gave everyone in the school a little red New Testament. By the end of the day the school grounds looked as if they had measles. As one of our unfortunately dead comedians – and probably the only decent one we've ever produced put it "little red dots about the size of an MP's brain."
In college, for a few weeks after school started every year, there were people handing out bibles on a street corner. They made the mistake of standing too close to a trash can.
Back in the stone age when I was in High School they handed out those as well in the U.S. I can't remember if the green ones were elementary or if they tried to give them to College students.
I'll believe the State Department of Education actually distributed instruction on how to *avoid* violating the First Amendment, when I see it. I expect, at best, they distribute information on how to not get caught.
In the words of a football chant – "here we go, here we go, here we go again". This happens with depressing regularity – or maybe it's not depressing given that they tend to be extreme conservatives.
Unwarranted christian privilege and grooming is how the grift of christianity survives. It certainly doesn't survive on its merits. It requires tax exemptions and special treatment to exist. Xtian entitlement in this country is sickening.
The attempted indoctrination occurred in 2019, and it wasn't until 2023 that the district finally had the whack upside the head it so clearly needed? Yeah, it's Oklahoma, where apparently news still travels by Pony Express, and it appears that the pony must've died somewhere along the way, but even so ... FOUR YEARS MORE this BS was allowed to continue?
Wow, that's a little more blatant than average. Wish there was a way to hold the individuals and not the school district as a whole liable, but I'll take what I can get. Heh.
Matt Walsh should have been stripped of his ad revenue for his blatant misogyny, racism, and general xenophobia, but this works too. YouTube doesn’t mind the rest of it generally.
OT
Before I forget...
Happy 86th Birthday to George Takei. Ohhhh, my!
While I'm more than glad to hear that the AHA won this one, I must say I really do wish these shenanigans had been stopped sooner. The damage has already been done to so many children, and I rather doubt most of them are going to get any help with it.
Christians complain entirely too often about the alleged persecution they have to live with, but never acknowledge all the privileges they get to enjoy. This is an abuse that was allowed to exist and continue specifically because the religion involved was Christianity, as Hemant has already pointed out; any other faith would have been shut down before anything could start. Seems to me that half the problem with Christians these days stems from either an inability to be honest with themselves, or a desperate need to control everyone else and force outsiders to behave like 'proper Christians'.
Allowing Christians that kind of authority over children isn't even on the table, I'm straight up unwilling to see it without complaint. Children are vulnerable to all kinds of stuff adults do, and preaching in the classroom is taking advantage of kids specifically because they're susceptible. No. This is never acceptable under any circumstances. Take your precious bibles back to you church and stay out of the public educational system for good, Christians; the article shows that kids will lie to you just to make you go away so you're not 'winning people for Christ' anyway. Save some gas and some pollution, and stay away.
P.S.:I believe there are passages in the Christian bible about the conversion of the extremely young, but I'm not looking it up right now.
We need to make it so that they can no longer claim "Nobody ever complained before."
"The Missionaries class consists of singing songs and playing games..."
I'd really like to know more about those fundie "games." Did they play Pin the Tail on the Muslim? Blind Man's Sin (That Caused Him to be Blind)? Jump (the Lynching) Rope? Cowboys and Infidels (with real guns, of course)? Did they have a game where one child was "It" and had to pretend to pick up sticks on the Sabbath while everyone else threw rocks at them? Did kids learn how to start a fire by rubbing sticks together, to burn witches, Jews and gays alive? Yessirree, those games must have been a barrel of fun.
I was going to make a Jesus Monopoly joke, but I figured I needed to google it first. It's the first one on the list'.
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/15-christian-board-games-you-wont-believe-actually-exist/75801.htm
Hmm. Nothing like "Lot and His Daughters," I see.
I picture it as game for the whole family.
David and Jonathan. Go to hell, go directly to hell, do not pass Nazareth, do no collect 200 shekels.
Now, Now. That was just a Bromance. Nothing Icky going on there.
Maybe after a jug or two of wine. But that totally doesn't count.
The Ezekiel 23:20 game.
That's nothing. As a long time fan of televised theology, I can tell you that there have been christian game shows on christian TV. One was "Bible Baffle," hosted by one Regis J. McKillip, a real live wire of a host who, I'm guessing, could toss a wet blanket the length of a studio.
But best of all back, in the 80s, was "Bible Bowl," a kids' game show that pitted the Bible Boys against the Gospel Girls. It was hosted by an elderly preacher who called himself "Coach Don," and every week, if the Bible Boys were behind at the end of the show, Coach Don would produce a really easy bonus question for them (never for the girls), which of course they always answered, giving them the victory. Then the Gospel Girls would have to sit quietly and watch the Bible boys celebrate their win with ice cream and cake. Now what could be nicer than that--or more christian? Teach 'em to be submissive young, that's the ticket! The show was canceled mysteriously, mid-season, amid rumors Coach Don had gotten a bit too friendly with some of the Bible Boys. (You can make your own "end zone" joke.)
As soon as you mentioned "Coach Don," I just knew how this would end.
Call me cynical.
No relation. I swear. People in the South call me "Brother Don"
And here I was hoping it was just a story of straight-up misogyny. Of course, Coach Don was trading favors.
Thanks for the link, but my sensibilities are too delicate to actually go to the website.
Just a taste. "GO" is relabeled "In the beginning".
I thought they didn't believe in the "Big Bang/Big Crunch" eternal cycle. (Yes, I know the Big Crunch is just one hypothesis of how the universe ends, there's also the Big Dark and probably others)
Those games look monotonously boring.
I think they look hilarious. You'd just have to play them with a fifth of bourbon, that's all.
7 I really want to know how they came with that name.
I shudder to think what kinds of "games" Christian missionaries would play with children.
Just look at the "Black Collar Crime" section of every "Freethought Today."
Don't forget seven minutes in heaven with the missionaries...
"It was appalling behavior that went on for too long, in part, perhaps, because no one knew it was wrong or no one wanted to rock the boat."
A classic example of Christian Privilege. They're not ignorant, they're ARROGANT. They definitely knew it was illegal, but they think the law should not apply to them because... Jesus. They enlisted the kids, some unwillingly through intimidation, to be accomplices in keeping it a secret. "Don't say that God isn't real, or you'll get in trouble," really was "...or we, your teachers will get in trouble."
"As of this writing, no public statement has been posted on the district’s website."
The Surgeon General has warned that holding one's breath waiting for that could be hazardous to your health. And don't assume that any of the other requirements, such as the staff re-education will be promptly fulfilled either. Check back again and again. And once it all seems to be over and everyone's behaving, They're going to start something else just as inappropriate. If it took a lawsuit to get them to stop this, they haven't changed their privileged attitude. It's still in there.
"If it took a lawsuit to get them to stop this, they haven't changed their privileged attitude. It's still in there."
Can confirm. I grew up in a fundie cult that would see something like this as a temporary setback, a machination of the devil, a roadblock, a test of faith, what-have-you. Upon being thwarted on rare occasions (this was the Deep South, and they got away with some shit you wouldn't believe and most everybody thought that was just the way things were supposed to be) in any endeavor such as the one described above, that privileged attitude would manifest itself in much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth about the persecution, oh *such* persecution God's people must endure in order "to bear witness and bring lost souls to Jesus." (Ay-yi-yi, I can still hear that phrase being thundered from the pulpit as if it were yesterday.)
And then they'd pray up a storm until they figured out a way come back at it from a different angle.
So yes. This Oklahoma School District bears watching. Closely. For a very long time.
How much actual learning is going on in this school district when they spend this much time indoctrinating children throughout the year? I mean, just the simple time restrictions of the school year are daunting enough to cover all the curriculum required to move one grade to the next, to cut out this much time for this is unconscionable. How many kids from this district started college (or even trade school) at a fatal disadvantage?
How bad is your religion when a five year old, hearing about it for the first time, can see it for the obvious scam it is? It is so unbelievable a toddler can dismantle it.
Thank goodness for this family and I hope they can stay safe as they now navigate a hostile Christian environment.
Conservative Christians never stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars. Their burning need to indoctrinate children with ideas an educated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time, speaks directly to just how weak the Christian message is. It is never the job of the public schools to backstop anybody's religion.
“ideas an educated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time”
They don’t even need to be an educated adult, this five year old smartly rejected it.
In "The God Delusion" Richard Dawkins suggested that religion should be like many other things in society, have a minimum age . Driving, voting, buying alcohol ,....
Then religion would be almost completely gone in a couple of generations.
Except in Oklahomastan.
Where the wind goes whippin' through their brains.
I remember when I was at high school – and there's no formal church state separation here you realise – the Gideons I think it was, came round and gave everyone in the school a little red New Testament. By the end of the day the school grounds looked as if they had measles. As one of our unfortunately dead comedians – and probably the only decent one we've ever produced put it "little red dots about the size of an MP's brain."
In college, for a few weeks after school started every year, there were people handing out bibles on a street corner. They made the mistake of standing too close to a trash can.
At least that way they could recycle them.
Back in the stone age when I was in High School they handed out those as well in the U.S. I can't remember if the green ones were elementary or if they tried to give them to College students.
Was it hard carving your homework into those granite slabs?
We were a little advanced, we used wax tablets.
Wokeism!
I'll believe the State Department of Education actually distributed instruction on how to *avoid* violating the First Amendment, when I see it. I expect, at best, they distribute information on how to not get caught.
Maybe they should distribute a pamphlet on how NOT to look like an accessory to unconstitutional behavior.
GOOD!
OT
GOP leader, who voted to expel TN Three, resigns; found guilty of sexually harassing interns
Rep. Scotty Campbell resigned about six hours after NewsChannel 5 confronted him about the sexual harassment allegations
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/revealed/revealed-gop-leader-who-voted-to-expel-tennessee-three-found-guilty-of-sexually-harassing-interns
Scratch a GQP, get a racist/hypocrite/criminal.
Scratch one? Can I borrow your 15 foot pole?
Only 15? I want a remote control robot from 3 miles away and then an acid bath for it.
With attached shotgun.
I have a 39 and a half foot one. Will it do?
It sings, though. Sounds like Thurl Ravenscroft.
Don't see a lot of people named Thurl nowadays...
I've got to use that name in a story I'm writing.
Until very recently, I didn't even know he had a middle name (Arthur).
Forgot to mention:
When I was stationed at Castle AFB, we took a trip to Dodge Ridge. Thurl Ravenscroft was performing there. This was winter of 73-74.
He's Great!, but could also be a mean one.
In viewing his picture in the article, he doesn't look like a drag queen.
#Stillnotadragqueen
Sexually harassing interns? Oh, BER-ROTHER!!!
Would that any part of that actually came as a surprise. Just wish this didn't come at taxpayer expense.
Republicans were hiding the expenses being paid out. Totally typical and sad, while not bothering to expel a real criminal.
In the words of a football chant – "here we go, here we go, here we go again". This happens with depressing regularity – or maybe it's not depressing given that they tend to be extreme conservatives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF8RHM1OCg&pp=ygUcV2hpdGVzbmFrZSAtIEhlcmUgSSBHbyBBZ2Fpbg%3D%3D
Tawny Kitaen, the Queen of metal videos.
(Not to mention being Mrs. Coverdale at one time)
He resigned. That's better than most. I was expecting a male intern.
Unwarranted christian privilege and grooming is how the grift of christianity survives. It certainly doesn't survive on its merits. It requires tax exemptions and special treatment to exist. Xtian entitlement in this country is sickening.
The attempted indoctrination occurred in 2019, and it wasn't until 2023 that the district finally had the whack upside the head it so clearly needed? Yeah, it's Oklahoma, where apparently news still travels by Pony Express, and it appears that the pony must've died somewhere along the way, but even so ... FOUR YEARS MORE this BS was allowed to continue?
Oklahoma is ranked 42nd Overall in Education.
I continue failing to be surprised.
🎼 🎵 O-O-O-O-Oklahoma, where we brainwash all our little kids...🎶
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f61235d10f47bcadf9d82bbfb971489e713ab57a99bd4574a70adeaa6385a9b9.gif
Wow, that's a little more blatant than average. Wish there was a way to hold the individuals and not the school district as a whole liable, but I'll take what I can get. Heh.
Christian missionaries? In Oklahoma? Were they trying to convert the Methodists and Presbyterians?
Sounds like taking coals to Newcastle to me.
OT:
YouTube strips ad revenue from The Matt Walsh Show after repeated vitriol against Dylan Mulvaney
Walsh has been leading an effort to boycott Bud Light for its collaboration with the TikTok star, whom he previously called “weird and artificial”
https://www.mediamatters.org/matt-walsh/youtube-strips-ad-revenue-matt-walsh-show-after-repeated-vitriol-against-dylan-mulvaney
Good.
Matt Walsh should have been stripped of his ad revenue for his blatant misogyny, racism, and general xenophobia, but this works too. YouTube doesn’t mind the rest of it generally.
Gosh, it'd be a shame if these parents told other parents... and they tell two parents and they tell two parents and so on, and so on, and so on.
And all of a sudden the school district will hurt for that precious public money. But they didn't think about that, did they... muahahahaha!