Bruce Williams told me the city of Gillette suppressed his atheist beliefs by letting Christians deliver just about all the invocations at government meetings
I understand and appreciate his sentiment but I really don't know what he expects this will actually accomplish. There's no way he's getting money and I expect this will just make the Christians yell 'persecution' and double down. I mean I hope he wins, that would be great precedent, but cmon. Seriously.
Christians never stop trying to mark their territory in the public square, and refuse to acknowledge the fact rights are not matters of majority rule in this country. At least they're not supposed to be. We are supposed to have a secular government at all levels, and religious invocations have absolutely no place in any of them.
This does come off as petty and grandstanding, I’m sure there are better ways to approach this issue. But I do think that filing a lawsuit might force the town into rethinking their invocation policy. We really ought to be dropping invocations altogether, and it seems the only way to accomplish that is to go town by town making them include everyone until they get so uncomfortable and shut it down.
I’m sure he would like to see some money, we all could use it, but this should really be about forcing these boards to stop wasting our time and resources on nonsensical voodoo.
Of course the city should be more transparent with their invocation selection process. However, the Christians currently in charge of that are accommodating him. Where the first amendment issue lies is the council members standing and leaving the room while he is giving the invocation. Yes, a case can be made that it is 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 right to walk out, but I see that as the right of any private citizen. Once they are in the room as council members, they are no longer private citizens, but agents of the government. To walk out while acting in that capacity would (in my opinion) violate the first amendment. That being said, the case will likely go nowhere.
Doubt this would work but glad someone in this state is throwing a stink about the invocations. Every town has it and it's some generic Christian fare. I'm more surprised it came out of Gillette and not Laramie or Cheyenne. That's where the most religious diversity in Wyoming is.
I do think that there may be some shady shit going on with how they choose the folks doing the invocations that they’re trying to hide by conceding to him once a year. If we’re trying to uncover that, I’m all in.
He's grandstanding. Unfortunately, I think the absurd "fine" will hurt better cases that are more clear-cut, and the only attention it will bring is claims that *all* such suits are just attempts to extort money that will raise taxes. (and the usual cries of "persecution", but those happen if a certain type of Christian stubs their toe.)
For the umpti-umpth time, Christianity gets favored over alternative belief (or disbelief) systems ... and Captain Renault is shocked, SHOCKED to discover that gambling is occurring in Rick Blaine's establishment.
I'm not certain I could be more tired or disgusted with incidents like this one if I tried. As oraxx observed, we have yet another case of Christians marking their territory to the exclusion of all others, and the fact that Williams might get an occasional word in edgewise doesn't excuse Gillette's current practice. The fine Williams wants levied is ridiculous, of course, but once again, we have a town that needs a wake-up call to deal with their religious tunnel vision.
Still ... it'd be fun to sock the city council for a couple hundred G-notes. Might make 'em a bit more aware.
Since he could give invocations I don't understand where is the problem. Anyway I will never understand this tradition on inflicting god on people 24/7.
About the money, let say he has stand, he wins and have it. Who will pay ? Insurances ? The state ?
He's going to have a hell of a time justifying $24 million- it'd have been better, I think, to have asked for some token amount just to make the issue visible, rather than demanding the moon. I can't see this even making it to trial, as is.
An even better option, as Boreal mentioned, would be to get TST involved. When that happens, more often than not, the offending body just shits their collective pants and trashes invocations rather than let them have their turn. Since the practice of opening government meetings with irrelevant drivel is about as useful as tits on a jellyfish, that would really be the best outcome.
My favorite invocation: “The meeting will come to order. Let’s get to work.”
I understand and appreciate his sentiment but I really don't know what he expects this will actually accomplish. There's no way he's getting money and I expect this will just make the Christians yell 'persecution' and double down. I mean I hope he wins, that would be great precedent, but cmon. Seriously.
Christians never stop trying to mark their territory in the public square, and refuse to acknowledge the fact rights are not matters of majority rule in this country. At least they're not supposed to be. We are supposed to have a secular government at all levels, and religious invocations have absolutely no place in any of them.
This does come off as petty and grandstanding, I’m sure there are better ways to approach this issue. But I do think that filing a lawsuit might force the town into rethinking their invocation policy. We really ought to be dropping invocations altogether, and it seems the only way to accomplish that is to go town by town making them include everyone until they get so uncomfortable and shut it down.
I’m sure he would like to see some money, we all could use it, but this should really be about forcing these boards to stop wasting our time and resources on nonsensical voodoo.
Let me guess. I bet he is representing himself because I can't see a reputable lawyer signing off on this.
Notice I said reputable.
Of course the city should be more transparent with their invocation selection process. However, the Christians currently in charge of that are accommodating him. Where the first amendment issue lies is the council members standing and leaving the room while he is giving the invocation. Yes, a case can be made that it is 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 right to walk out, but I see that as the right of any private citizen. Once they are in the room as council members, they are no longer private citizens, but agents of the government. To walk out while acting in that capacity would (in my opinion) violate the first amendment. That being said, the case will likely go nowhere.
OT, I don't know if Val is on yet, but I came across this and had to share.
https://paintraincomic.com/comic/caught-jesters/
Doubt this would work but glad someone in this state is throwing a stink about the invocations. Every town has it and it's some generic Christian fare. I'm more surprised it came out of Gillette and not Laramie or Cheyenne. That's where the most religious diversity in Wyoming is.
I do think that there may be some shady shit going on with how they choose the folks doing the invocations that they’re trying to hide by conceding to him once a year. If we’re trying to uncover that, I’m all in.
He's grandstanding. Unfortunately, I think the absurd "fine" will hurt better cases that are more clear-cut, and the only attention it will bring is claims that *all* such suits are just attempts to extort money that will raise taxes. (and the usual cries of "persecution", but those happen if a certain type of Christian stubs their toe.)
For the umpti-umpth time, Christianity gets favored over alternative belief (or disbelief) systems ... and Captain Renault is shocked, SHOCKED to discover that gambling is occurring in Rick Blaine's establishment.
I'm not certain I could be more tired or disgusted with incidents like this one if I tried. As oraxx observed, we have yet another case of Christians marking their territory to the exclusion of all others, and the fact that Williams might get an occasional word in edgewise doesn't excuse Gillette's current practice. The fine Williams wants levied is ridiculous, of course, but once again, we have a town that needs a wake-up call to deal with their religious tunnel vision.
Still ... it'd be fun to sock the city council for a couple hundred G-notes. Might make 'em a bit more aware.
OT but ...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2023/apr/06/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-harlan-crow-trump-indictment-politics-live
https://www.alternet.org/rank-corruption-aoc-calls-for-clarence-thomas-impeachment-following-bombshell-report-on-megadonor-gifts/
Think it will come to anything?????????
He should talk to the TST and ask them to also put in a request for invocations.
Since he could give invocations I don't understand where is the problem. Anyway I will never understand this tradition on inflicting god on people 24/7.
About the money, let say he has stand, he wins and have it. Who will pay ? Insurances ? The state ?
OT
A Michigan judge has struck down an unconstitutional ban on abortion that dated back to 1931. Good on ya, Judge Gleicher .
He's going to have a hell of a time justifying $24 million- it'd have been better, I think, to have asked for some token amount just to make the issue visible, rather than demanding the moon. I can't see this even making it to trial, as is.
An even better option, as Boreal mentioned, would be to get TST involved. When that happens, more often than not, the offending body just shits their collective pants and trashes invocations rather than let them have their turn. Since the practice of opening government meetings with irrelevant drivel is about as useful as tits on a jellyfish, that would really be the best outcome.