426 Comments

People who manage to convince themselves they're operating under divine sanction never take criticism well. There are some good reasons Christianity is the most factionalized religion on the planet. If she could just manage to open her mind a little bit she can see why that is right before her eyes. My response to all the proselytizers is, 'If you think your message is so compelling, then get all your fellow Christians on the same page, and we'll talk. Not a minute sooner.

Expand full comment

A few thoughts: 1) She forgot the first rule of belonging to a cult... never, ever criticize the cult or the cult leader - especially in public. 2) She is a christian woman - she is not allowed a public opinion - if her husband (absent) cannot express it for her, she should just sit in silence. You are right, Oraxx - christianity has been factionalized from the get go. Paul complains of false preachers. It is just too good a grift for all these false preachers to pass up. If you have not read them, David Fitzgerald's treatments of early christianity in 'Nailed' and 'Jesus - Mything in Action' have a lot to say.

Expand full comment

I see the willingness to delegate a person's thinking to someone else as the root cause.

Expand full comment

Being a cult member means 2 things - you are intellectually lazy and you are easily hypnotized.

Expand full comment

And respond well to threats.

Expand full comment

🎯And a sub.

Expand full comment

"christianity has been factionalized from the get go."

A good read in that regard is "The Bible against Itself" by Randel Helms. He points out how the pissing match between Paul on the one hand and Jesus's brothers James and Jude on the other ended up being encoded in different books in the New Testament. You can get a copy of this excellent book here:

https://shop.skeptic.com/products/the-bible-against-itself-skeptic-exclusive-randel-helms

Expand full comment

Thanks!

Expand full comment

I thank you for the books, I won't thank you for the damage to my bank account.

Expand full comment

Wait until you read those - the 'Mything in Action' is profound. Then check out his book - 'The Mormons'.

Expand full comment

I had "the god-makers" recommended to me also about the Mormons but I think it is out-of-print.

Expand full comment

I have not read that one. I keep an extra copy of ‘The Mormons’ around to give to the next set of elders that show up.

Expand full comment

I like you!

My favorite Plastic Surgeon that I used to work with, recommended it to me.

Expand full comment

Spot on!!

Expand full comment

Yeah. Usually it’s either cultists, who typically are so enamored of their deity figure that even the hint that it is wrong about SOMETHING is enough to send them into rage, or the leader is an incredible narcissist with a huge ego where even the hint that are wrong about SOMETHING is enough to send them into a rage.

Expand full comment

I would up vote you, but it isn't letting me.

Expand full comment

"I’ll post an update if I hear back."

And I'll update if Trump ever admits he did something illegal and he should be punished for it. In other words, never going to happen.

Expand full comment

Happens in the Catholic Church too. The last Catholic church I attended? The Pastor would barr anybody for anything including not saying hello to him in a manner he considered respectful. I once asked him a question before saying Good morning to him. He yelled at me and said "three weeks!" Meaning I was not to attend Mass for 3 weeks or until he deemed me fit to come back. For not saying Good morning. Yup. No longer attend.

Expand full comment

Wear that like a badge of honor.

Expand full comment

What an Eucharist nazi. “No Eucharist for you!”

Expand full comment

And that was while I was a Euchariist Minister at the church. It was all about the Pastor not about Jesus.

Expand full comment

Ole man river

He just keeps moving along

Pull that rope

Lift that bale

Generate that revenue

Expand full comment

If this happens to someone else, call the archdiocese and if necessary, the papal nuncio.

The priest is not in charge. The parishioners do not answer to him except in confession.

Expand full comment

I don't go there anymore. The things that really went on there? Not good. I know child abuse was. The Pastor fired a parishioner from the school for touching a child,the parishioner did community service and the Pastor rehired him. All with the Archdiocese blessings. Yup.

Expand full comment

The church sign in my village this week says "Do you use prayer as your steering wheel, or your spare tire" I plan on creating a meme once I get a photo of it, that has the sign over a picture of Maggie Simpson in the opening sequence of the show with her toy steering wheel, implying or stating that this is what prayer really is. Imaginary play toy for an infant cartoon character. Nearly six degrees of separation from reality.

This is why this church cannot allow anyone critical of leadership to attend. Their tenuous ties to reality, the only opportunity for cash, cannot bear even the most cursory inspection.

Expand full comment

I use a similar analogy. Religions are like kids on the playground playing some finger-shooting game with each other. Of course in such games, kids argue over who shot who (what God wants). If you are the adult assigned to the playground (i.e. the government), your role is not to say who shot who, but to ensure the kiddies don't come to blows over their disagreements.

Expand full comment

If they use prayer as a steering wheel, they'll regret it instantly. If they use it as a spare tire, on the other hand, they might not figure out it was a bad idea if they're lucky enough to never need the tire- and then they can accuse the people who 𝘥𝘪𝘥 need the spare tire of not having enough faith in Wheel-Jesus!

Expand full comment

Leopards ate more faces, you say? 🤔

Expand full comment

That's why I only vote for the face eating Tigers. You can trust a Tiger.

Expand full comment

Plus, I often get leopards and cheetahs mixed up......

Expand full comment

Especially a Jolly Tiger!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo%27s

Expand full comment

To Rahela Petian...

This is what your religion is. This is who they are. Do you not understand that by now? Why are you still part of it? Especially given this patriarchal religion's longstanding misogyny.

Expand full comment

god hates me so i must try harder

Expand full comment

"I must work harder," said Boxer the farm horse as he was being hauled away to the knackers.

Expand full comment

I can't laughing at that one......

It's like justice Clarence Thomas..... the white people hate me I must try harder.

Expand full comment

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GI8ocLayq3c

It was yet a day which started as usual

I woke up super late so for now, no changes

Suddenly, the sky*, the thunder, then I saw a bright light

Clouds disappeared, the wind blew (shake the hearth)

I am a bronze Knight for this reason, I am in a deep shit

I hope it's not the Lord, my name is Seyar, not Moses

So yes, it was him and the Lord, he told me

"Kamini you will be white for 9 weeks and half

Oh oh oh, that, yep, what, white how ?

Of course God got his fun before answering, he left a blank**

Playing dumb, I try to flee (flee), I start to run

But it was already too late, I saw my epiderme whiten

So I am white everywhere, he took care of every details

I checked my willie, I am so ashamed I won't tell you the size

And why did you do that to me ? Seriously, I didn't ask for it

Michael Jackson you don't know him, he waited for this since 30 years ago (hi hi hi)

Puns lost in translation

* Ciel can means both sky and heavens

** Laisser un blanc = a pause in a conversation (real meaning) and leaving him as a white man (pun).

Expand full comment

But, but, but he is a white person!

Expand full comment

He's what's been known as an Oreo. Black on the outside, white on the inside.

Expand full comment

I don't think I have heard that since 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘑𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘴.

Expand full comment

It's pathetic when adults think that way. It's horrifying when children do.

Expand full comment

This is what she gets for not serving her husband correctly, not leaning in to her vocation as a wife. She should have listened more, to men like Butker and Lindell.

Expand full comment

I got the impression she had no 'keeper'. I thought she was a single mom.

Expand full comment

Yeah, but why is she single with five kids? Because she didn't obey her husband. I don't have to know her situation, she's just a Jezebel harpy who can't keep a man.

Expand full comment

The lucky fellow could have died, you know.

Expand full comment

I'm sure they can find a way to blame her for that too.

Expand full comment

"The woman you made for me gave me of the fruit of the tree, and I did eat."

It all started with Adam.

Expand full comment

Maybe she put her spouse in a pumpkin shell and there she kept him very well.

Expand full comment

"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

Perfect description of xtians.

Expand full comment

Yes, she needs an intervention......

They should really bring that show back, focus on religious de-programming.

Expand full comment

This happens in all the churches, in all the sects, in all the religions. Mostly because they are all cults that have deceived well enough to be seen as legitimate. Most of the time, the leadership does not do anything that would warrant criticism worth noting, but when it happens, the church circles the wagons around that leader. Perhaps, they will hide a bit behind a veneer of tolerance of criticism, when the critiques are about superficial things, but when it is about anything serious, hold on to your butts. This is why entire congregations applaud the preacher who admits to raping young girls from the congregation and allows the preacher to marry them, or shuns the girl for reporting it. Or why Popes get away with supporting Nazis, or pedophiles, and those who complain are excommunicated. Being a preacher gives you divine power, which allows you to do as you please.

There are a few instances where the preacher crosses too many in the congregation at once, and they're held accountable for their actions. But not nearly enough and usually it is about cash and not about morality.

Expand full comment

I thought, by now, we've pretty much established most of them don't know morality, only obedience.

Expand full comment

Exactly.

Expand full comment

With stealing cash the biggest no no.

Expand full comment

Conservative Christian woman. Translation: "One who is complicit in her own oppression."

Expand full comment

See also: 99% of the entire Republican electorate.

Expand full comment

Don't get me started. One of my coworkers is a naturalized African immigrant and was trying to get zir parents a Visa for medical care in the U.S. Ze found out it was denied this morning and the poor sod contacted Ted Cruz for help. Claims to love Ted Cruz. I just let zir express zir stress and didn't tell zir my opinion of Ted Fucking Cruz or the likelihood of help with immigration from a non-Aryan country from such a source.

Expand full comment

Love Ted Cruz? That's some next-level crazy, right there. Sheesh, based on his asskissing Trump after insulting his family, and the fact that he grew that abomination of a beard, even 𝘛𝘦𝘥 𝘊𝘳𝘶𝘻 doesn't love Ted Cruz.

Expand full comment

A year or so ago, ze was complimenting Trump's immigration policy. Lost deep in the right-wing bubble.

Expand full comment

Just like Diamond and Silk. 2 black women from North Carolina that switched from lifetime of being Democrats to Republicans after tRump campaigned there prior to 2020. Unbelievable! Some kinky narcissistic white guy fantasy 🤷

Expand full comment

They were the daughters of a pair of televangelists based out of North Carolina, though, it was just a scam. Michael Cohen found them and pitched them to trump, being the grifty performers they were they sold out for cash .

"But these decisions, held up to the light, are terrifying enough. For example, Cohen was all about adding a veneer of racial respectability to Trump's clearly racist campaign. He promoted two bloggers named Diamond and Silk. He was the one who seeded Trump rallies "with a few token minorities in the background as he spoke, to avoid the KKK appearance lurking just below the surface" of earlier all-white events. Cohen first provided the permission many voters sought to vote their racist fears without being too obvious.

https://mashable.com/article/michael-cohen-disloyal-review

Expand full comment

🎯It's that early indoctrination, it warps their little brains.

Expand full comment

𝑺𝒖𝒃𝒎𝒊𝒕, 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚 𝒅𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒅𝒆𝒅.

The farther to the right they are, the more insistent is the authoritarianism. And they wonder why we oppose them.

They insist that their way is the only correct way, and they will lie, cheat, and steal to get their way. They believe that they must impose their (im)morality by force, and that is what will get everyone else to believe their lies. This kerfuffle in one church is just a symptom of their larger problem, and only showcases to the rest of us that power is the only god they truly worship.

𝑺𝒖𝒃𝒎𝒊𝒕, 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚 𝒅𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒅𝒆𝒅.

Expand full comment

Of course they demanded that she submit. You don't say things like, "pretty please, will you submit?"

Expand full comment

These people have Domme kinks.

Expand full comment

If they were a good Dom, who cares about their sub, they wouldn't have to insist, their sub would know what was expected and perform willingly, but since they are just assholes they will not get it.

Expand full comment

They can't stand consent for angine. And sometimes not even for themselves. These people are so bad, they're bad at being "bad".

Expand full comment

Indeed!

Expand full comment

lolololololol what did she think was going to happen?

Expand full comment

She felt that leadership was going to back her up. I can see why she felt that way due to her faith and longstanding commitment to that church, but we as atheists/agnostics/seculars have seen how that movie ends and it's always the same.

I'm actually sad for her because she got played by people she trusted and devoted her time to.

Expand full comment

She naively believed them when they lied about accepting criticism.

Expand full comment

You're right. She did.

My reply to you is the same as the one I gave to Runfastandwin:

I know quite a few people like that and I'm sure you do as well. It's akin to an abusive relationship, and with that I doubt she will ever get it but that's not going to remove or minimize my sympathy for her.

I hope she comes to the realization that we all know but I'm not going to hold my breath that she does.

Expand full comment

I had the same initial reaction but then I realized she still doesn't get it even after being whacked with a 2x4 so my sympathy vanished.

Expand full comment

I know quite a few people like that and I'm sure you do as well. It's akin to an abusive relationship, and with that I doubt she will ever get it but that's not going to remove or minimize my sympathy for her.

I hope she comes to the realization that we all know but I'm not going to hold my breath that she does.

Expand full comment

Well, from the description of her initial post it sounds like she is *more* conservative than Driscoll - she was complaining he was too worldly and not harsh enough on the performance. So while she may not have wanted or anticipated the reaction, I see a lot more, similar conflicts in her future. Her missteps in sexist authoritarian cult-like churches is going to continue until she stops looking for sexist authoritarian cult-like churches to be part of.

Expand full comment

Your last sentence sums her up perfectly!

And like Brian said, this is a toxic abusive relationship - it's like the makeup and breakup with an emotional abuser.

I don't see this lady learning anything, she's just going to go to another church. Hopefully her kids will learn something from it and walk away.

Expand full comment

Quick OT

Happy 78th 🎂 to Cher.

Expand full comment

Remarkable lady she is. BTW - did you get your tickets for Piano Man this week?

Expand full comment

Can't. Cashless-only.

Expand full comment

Rahela Petian detailed criticism of James River Church's leaders highlights a major problem with their so called church. Why did she feel comfortable talking? How in a bible believe church was she allowed to speak in the first place? Timothy 2:12 is extremely clear on what her position is, and yet she thinks the word of the Lord doesn't apply to her. Not only does she think that she's a man and can speak in church, she is clearly in public without head covering (1 Corinthians 11:10). Again, this Jezebel somehow thinks that the word of God doesn't apply. Oh, sure they "tried" to silence her, but that was a half hearted attempt to hide the truth that she was knowingly in league with Satan. If they had been serious there would have been stones involved. Whether the "men" in that "church" are in league with Satan, too, or whether they are just under that Jezebel's spell, I do not know. What I do know is that James River Church is a not a real church, but evidence points to it being nothing more than a den of uppity harlots.

Expand full comment

Uppity Harlots. Good name for a band.

Expand full comment

That was my nickname in high school.

Expand full comment

You actually have an opinion, aren't afraid to express it, and like freaky circus sex. Not really a surprise.

Expand full comment

There's lightning in these thunder thighs!!! plus the OBG Y Me Blues.

Expand full comment

Thanks for jinxing me with a thunderstorm 🤣

Expand full comment

Awesome satire......really like this one.

Expand full comment

Lady, the church did you a favor by kicking you out. Take the W and find a better life- and some better beliefs- for yourself and your kids.

Expand full comment

A few comments in no particular order:

1. "we are in the middle of the budget season [and therefore cannot be bothered to address this]." Way to prove her point about it being all about making money, church leaders.

2. Ah yes, "creating disunity in the church." The go-to accusation used by authoritarian/abusive church leaders to silence their critics and avoid accountability.

3. While I have no doubt I'd agree with Petian on many counts, I think many of her criticisms of the leadership at JRC are spot on and I'm glad she's willing to call for accountability among her own church leaders. Unfortunately, authoritarian leaders (and the rampant authoritarianism at JRC obviously runs deep) tend not to like that.

Expand full comment

That's fucked up.

I finally found some yellow irises to go in my garden, it has literally taken me years to get some. Everyone have a good weekend?

Expand full comment

Why do you want to give your garden jaundice? : )

Expand full comment

Ha Ha

I have some striking white irises and some irises with two shades of purple. I have been looking for the yellow to mix in for a while. Most of my garden is yellow and red flowers otherwise. The red and purple might usually clash, but I do a decent job of being able to mix them well.

Expand full comment

My grandfather had red, yellow, and dark purple with a black edge tulips. I didn't think the colors clashed.

Expand full comment

Red and purple can be tough to pair, depending on the hues, but I think the natural colors go together well no matter what.

Expand full comment

Whatever you do, don't mix purple and yellow.

(Viking's colors, yuck. Go Bears!)

Expand full comment

I do mix purple and yellow all the time, plus yellow and green is my favorite combo, I get sick of everyone always jumping to some sportsball reference though. Living in Wisconsin keeps me from being able to wear the yellow and green I like the best.

My village colors are yellow and purple, the high school is purple and white.

I am an ex-Minnesotan, Vikings are better than the Bears. ;)

Expand full comment

I've inherited my dad's flower beds. They were quite extensive. Shortly before he died, he switched from well water to rural water. We can't afford to keep the beds watered anymore. When we get lots of rain all kinds of stull comes up, but we have been pretty droughty the last couple of years. Plenty of rain so far this year.

Expand full comment

I stopped watering my beds when the irises took over the flower beds completely and I stopped buying annuals. I have enough perennials to fill the gardens and they are pretty drought hearty. Mostly hostas, some lilies and the irises. None of which require extra watering, but I am in Wisconsin, which does get plenty of rain. Where are you? I know that in Denver, I needed to water constantly even with the daily thunderstorms during the summer.

Expand full comment

Not too far from you. Cedar Falls, IA. The last couple of summers have been really dry. Dry enough to take out parts of my lawn. Last year was really bad on my lilac hedge. All the leaves turned brown and fell. Late September we got some rain and new shoots appeared and flowered. My lilacs are really confused.

Expand full comment

Climate change is imaginary, doncha know. It isn't a problem with the drought, it's you. /s

My hubs keeps whacking away at our lilacs. Pruning keeps them from blooming as well as they usually do, so we have not had good blooms for a few years.

Expand full comment

Got in my son's last required nights of camping for boy scouts. Weather was relatively warm, but the winds really picked up at night, so not a lot of sleep. One kid's tent even flipped with him in it.

I need to pick out the rest of the herbs for my garden. Everything that I was expecting to come back did, except for the oregano. I have a little more room this year, so I'm going to try a few new ones, I'm just not sure what yet.

Expand full comment

I was supposed to give blood for one of the girl's eagle projects this weekend, but they rejected me because my bp was too high. I was disappointed. She did meet and exceed her goal, though.

Expand full comment

I used to give blood regularly, but stopped several years ago for some reason. I started up again last year because one of the scouts from our previous troop did a blood drive. I'm about due to give again and I'm flooded with phone call reminders.

Expand full comment

I gave regularly 18-late 30s, then stopped doing anything but the at-work blood drives because of spousal, family etc. schedule became a lot more hectic. Then covid came along, and since then I haven't done even the at-work ones because...no at-work.

Expand full comment

Last time I gave blood, the Red Cross did the same to me with the reminders. I shut them all off and then didn't give for a long time. I'm gonna start getting reminders again for signing up for this one.

I may have to hold off for a while, since my surgery I've had some trouble sorting out all my bp and iron levels and such. Mostly related to the fibroid causing super heavy monthlies. I am making myself more active as well to help with all of it.

Expand full comment

I didn't when I was younger due to nervousness about needles. Then I came out and even with the 'loosened' restrictions they effectively refuse the blood of gay men and transwomen. For fear of HIV they won't take the blood of the man who's been faithful to his husband for 10 years, but the 'player' who has a different woman almost every week? His they'll take.

Expand full comment

That last phrase even though common rubs me the wrong way now that I think about it. Should have said 'has a different woman in his bed' or 'has sex with a different woman'. Just 'has a different woman' sounds like he possesses her. It may have been a mistake, but she presumably knew what she was doing when she agreed to sex and had agency to do so.

Expand full comment

So far as I'm aware, every church in existence behaves in exactly this way. Churches are the only place where I've ever heard being a sheep characterized as a good thing, and it's without doubt because they're after obedience rather than the 'love' message they keep going on about. I can't even claim marginal surprise here, since this is exactly what I'd expect to happen under the circumstances given.

Every Christian church I've ever personally seen or attended has been an authoritarian entity looking to take advantage of its members in some way. Even the pastors I would consider to be decent people otherwise didn't change that much, the system itself is set up to be this way. Suffice it to say that I honestly don't see Hemant needing to make any updates on this article, and there's a good reason for that feeling.

Expand full comment