153 Comments

If you want your children to share your beliefs, then show them your beliefs are relevant and valuable. On that note...

Good luck convincing a generation that grew up with handheld supercomputers, connected to an entire world of other handheld supercomputers, that they should base their worldview on a book written by people who'd barely mastered the abacus. But then, you already know how hard it is to make a successful case for your religion- that's why you've turned back to banning books. It's 𝘴𝘰 much easier to make a losing argument stick when you don't allow anyone else into forum.

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I didn't even make it through my twelve years of catholic school before I became non-religious. There were just so many things that didn't make any sense at all.

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They lost me at 8. The Job story was what killed my faith in a supposedly just and loving god.

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I suspect it's because you weren't Jewish enough?

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Hey, the middle name of my real name is Joseph, a Jewish name.

Wasn't that close enough for them?

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Now, now, Joseph isn't a Jewish name, it's a Catholic name. Why else would the nuns always have insisted that when our class bought, er, adopted a Pagan Baby we had to name it Joseph if it was a boy, Mary if a girl?

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If I follow your reasoning am I to move to Russia ?

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Da!

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Spassibo* but I pass, Russia cuisine is not to my taste.

*One of French way to spell this word.

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Same here. The fact that the nuns used to physically abuse any kid who asked inconvenient questions was the first big tipoff. The first of many.

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I remember sitting behind some nuns in a history class at University once – they were teaching nuns – the stories they told about what they did to the kids before the Prof came in to the lecture theatre shook me to my core. 😁

I remember reading a story about a teaching nun though who when she left the room drew a big circle on the blackboard, and said "Anyone who talks, the devil will suck them through that hole into hell." Nothing like the unfailingly cheerful and charitable nuns of those 40s and 50s movies.

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If you feel its VITALLY important your kids stay Evangelical, maybe you shouldn't hate on gays, muslims, liberals etc. so much, eh? Surely your kid's eternal soul is worth the piffling cost of you being outwardly nice to the neighbors you don't inwardly like, eh?

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That's not what Jesus wants. Jesus is God. He decides, not you. See? It's easy to be evangelical!

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Ah, but protestants believe you don't have to do what Jesus wants to be saved. Sola fides, baby! If evangelicals think God isn't going to let them into heaven because of their *acts* towards gays, they might as well just sign on to the papacy now.

Still, you are right that that's the sort of logic they use. Even if the demand for acts goes against the core tenets of their faith. Consistency is not one of their hobgoblins.

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Yep, more "Religion for the Booboisie Who Love Their Comforts."

They have the $$$$ for the collection plate, the prayer candles, the baptisms, the weddings, etc.

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Ah hahahahahahahahaha! You used the word "logic"!!!!!!!!!

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Evangelicals tend to act like their children are their own property rather than independent human people. Parental rights advocates, who trend fundamental religious, demand things that generally aren’t in their children’s best interest, but more in the interests of the parent being the authority over their children. Things like education opportunities, providing healthcare, or abuse deterrents that might challenge their religious beliefs.

The survey might not be a direct correlation of wanting your children to follow your religion and considering your children your property, but it does provide fuel for the hypothesis.

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

OT

Kevin Seefried, the traitor at the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection who menaced a black DC police officer with a pole that had a Confederate flag attached to it just got a 3-year prison term.

GOOD!

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But the goon who planned, incited and orchestrated the whole thing is still running around loose.

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There's no political will to press criminal charges against an ex-President. Especially now that he's announced another run. Afraid of accusations of trying to steal the election. (Not that they're not going to get those anyway. The meme has worked too well for him so far)

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Garland has said point-blank that he won't pursue an indictment that might influence an election. Yet leftwing media parade an endless series of pundits reading imaginary tea leaves to show that an indictment is imminent. You'd think after two+ years of this futility they'd have given up, but no, gotta keep the supply of red meat coming, even if it's just an illusion. Watching and waiting is apparently not an option.

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The only time the red meat isn't an illusion is when I'm eating a steak.

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I've given up all expectations of seeing him behind bars.

That leaves it up to Rethuglikkkans who've decided they've had enough of the Marmalade Malcontent. Unfortunately, THEY will no doubt back DeathSentence instead.

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I think "planned" might be a bit of a stretch if you are referring to Trump. Also maybe orchestrated. I'd stick with incited if I were you. 😁

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Not enough. Imagine if it was a black insurrectionist and a white cop.

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There would've been a funeral instead of a trial.

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I said that day if the insurrectionists had been black it would have been the biggest massacre of civilians by police in the history of the USA.

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When I was eight, family friends invited me to attend the Awanas kids club at the Baptist church at the end of our street, a five minute walk. Once I turned ten my parents announced that they were taking me out of Awanas and putting me into their Calvinist denomination's boys club, a formal and joyless knockoff of Boy Scouts. The reason? "We want you to be with *our* boys."

At that moment I understood that it wasn't about being Christian, it was about being a member of their insular denomination. So it had less to do with substance or doctrine and more to do with heritage, tradition, identity, belonging, and handing down some legacy. My parents didn't recognize it at the time but that realization was the turning point toward a swift resistance to their indoctrination. The authoritarian attitude of the church and their "dominee" (pastor) was nullified by my inherent understanding that "I am not your property." I don't need membership in a "sit down and STFU" social club.

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𝘐𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘥 𝘨𝘰𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘯 𝘳𝘪𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘢𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘺 𝘱𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘩𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵, 𝘐𝘴𝘭𝘢𝘮 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥𝘯'𝘵 𝘦𝘹𝘪𝘴𝘵 𝘵𝘰𝘥𝘢𝘺 ... 𝘖𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘺 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘬𝘦𝘱𝘵 𝘐𝘴𝘭𝘢𝘮 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘥𝘢𝘺.

-- Yusuf al-Qaradawi, head of the Muslim Brotherhood

And how many evangelicals would LOVE the idea of having a similar statute as a part of their doctrine? My guess would be: A LOT. And as it is, people are moving away from religious faith, INCLUDING the children of evangelicals ... and there is damned little that can be done about that.

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Hallelujah!!!

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The largest (by far) Protestant denomination is the Southern Baptist Convention. The SBC is a MASSIVE real estate empire/political org. run by pimps/human traffickers with more money than most countries. It is imperative one's children be on board when you're the mafia.

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That's a pretty fair description of every large religious sect in the country. The Mormons, the Catholics...each is a big corporate business, using its money and political connections to make sure MORE money keeps rolling in.

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The SBC has way more money than LDS & is getting close to the Catholic church in the U.S. The southern border is about the fact (they) are Catholic. BTW Protestants hate Catholics.

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Catholics are taught to look down on Protestants as lesser beings from when the Catholics are young.

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Yep. Boys in our grade school were even forbidden to join the Scouts because the local troop me in the basement of a Protestant church. Don't want to get any of those Presby-cooties on you.

And we were never taught one verifiable fact about the Reformation, its causes or effects. Year after year we were taught "history" about "the Protestant Revolt."

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

I was in Boy Scouts at a catholic school/church. I didn't think anything of it one way or another. My kids have gone through scouts at 2 episcopal, a methodist and a prebyterian church.

OT, but I had a conversation once with Dave Armstrong where he was arguing that there were no denominations in christianity. He was trying to do something semantic which I think he was making up. Anyway, there is a spot downtown where I can see three of those churches along with the catholic cathedral. Looking at a map, I might be able to see a lutheran church as well if I move slightly. If that's not christian persecution, I don't know what is.

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Do you blame them? Catholicism is pretty revolting.

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OT - Update

𝐅𝐥𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐚 𝐭𝐞𝐞𝐧𝐬 𝐰𝐨𝐧’𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐫𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐚𝐥 𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐚𝐥 𝐡𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐲 𝐭𝐨 𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐲 𝐬𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/florida-teens-won-t-have-to-reveal-menstrual-history-to-play-sports/ar-AA17hHvt

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The last time you mentioned it, I commented about how high level training can impede or suppress periods, I forgot some cis women/girls don't have them at all for biological reasons (like lack of an uterus). Another reason politicians should listen to experts before opening their mouths.

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If the GQP listened to the experts, their culture war would be dead in an afternoon- that's why they never do.

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"Another reason politicians should listen to experts before opening their mouths."

Ever the optimist. 😍

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Free thinking requires thinking. Evangelcals are incapable of thinking, just as they are impervious to facts and reason.

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

"Thinking is HARD [tee-hee]",

sez Fundagelical Barbie and Ken.

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Don't channel MTG. Imagine if your brain froze that way.

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mtg has a brain ???

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From my very fundamentalist Southern Baptist upbringing, yes, it's more than just the worry that any kid even slightly outside the fold will go to h3ll. It's about honestly believing that anyone with different beliefs isn't just wrong, but willfully and intentionally working against Jesus/God and the good of the human race as a whole. At the end of the day, so many Christians really do think that anyone who isn't, at bare minimum, a believer in Christ is a monster that must be destroyed in the most uncompromising of terms. (Do I need to point out how that might reflect on the parent?)

These parents aren't just afraid for their kids, they're also terrified that whatever their non-believing kids might do will be held against them. Why do you think so many of them throw out their LGBTQ+ kids? They'll claim the tough love thing, sure, but it's also an attempt to divorce themselves from the responsibility of having raised kids that aren't 'straight, like God intended'. I cannot tell you the number of times I've wondered how my parents would have responded had I told them I wasn't straight; and as broken as my relationship with them was, I suspect things would have been far worse had that been the case. Yes, on the one hand I'm grateful it wasn't and I know I got very lucky; but on the other I can't say it doesn't sting.

The evangelicals are, for all intents and purposes, trying to tie their kids up in the basement and make them stay there. It's not going to go well, but I'm not about to try and convince them of that when I know they're going to respond as though I'm the monster. Good luck to the kids, and here's hoping they get out with as little pain and misery as possible.

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O/T: Outrageous! U.S. Navy orders commanders to implement a “religious test” for all sailors!

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2/9/2152021/-Outrageous-U-S-Navy-orders-commanders-to-implement-a-religious-test-for-all-sailors?utm_campaign=trending

As if they want badly to dishonor the Constitution more than ever.

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Insane, unconstitutional, and un-American, at the very least ... and yet watch the Navy get away with it because it isn't reported on in the major news media!

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

Sorry, just where does the Navy say 'test'? That is a strawman completely concocted by the author of the article "i.e., a RELIGIOUS TEST!" [punctuation corrected].

Having been in that 'management' chain at the lower end, I can imagine the commands are being told to provide appropriate and necessary support for religious subordinates, with this instruction being a path to compliance with service official policy.

The article puts its own spin on this without EVER discussing how this could not just be an attempt to provide support not only as needed but AS REQUIRED BY A LEGAL ORDER.

I can only imagine the high dudgeon people here would work themselves into if a large unit, like a carrier, deployed with ONLY Christian pastors and no Jewish or Muslim or Sikh or etc. representatives either for the ship, itself, or for the group that will be directly supporting it.

And, trust me, the command will already know who is or isn't 'religious' just by the people who avail themselves of such support from the, in a carriers case, possibly religious officers with 'senior' ranks. That's if it's not eventually from informal reports of 'issues' percolating up through the chain-of-command from the front line 'supervision' (e.g. CPOs and the like).

Actually, this instruction can easily be seen as a reinforcement of the policy that individual religious needs MUST be considered important, including career-ending ramifications if such needs are suppressed.

The religious staff can ALSO provide other counseling services, but the degree of support would depend on the the individuals involved. Yes, there are good and bad navy chaplains.

This article really stinks of one-sided rabble-rousing without any interest in presenting a balanced view to give the actual religious service members the ability to let the command know their needs.

HOW ELSE is the command to reliably know what are the needs of existing crew members and the needs of the large number of incoming, new members. Some of those members are ALREADY intimidated by military discipline AND their first experience of being considered just a warm body; a warm body which has already had MANY of its Constitutional Rights legally suspended?!

It really is a complex situation in the strict definition of self-regulating entities connected and interacting in sometimes unpredictable ways, which is NOT a good thing on a ship in a crisis, especially when you really can't walk home from it.

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Ever been in the service?

Spiritual readiness as a requirement to serve is a religious test, in and of itself. Add to the fact that the first two parts of the spiritual readiness are a connection to the Devine (requires a believe in woo) and participation in a community of faith demands an unconstitutional expectation for the service member.

Chaplains are assigned to units based on the size of the unit and by a higher echelon of command than the unit commander. The chaplains are required to be versed in all religious beliefs and serve the servicemembers no matter their religion. The majority of chaplains are some sort of Christian, and they are not assigned according to the religious makeup of the unit. A ship will have only one chaplain. That’s it. There isn’t a chaplain for every religion on the ship, they’d end up with a quarter of the staff being chaplains and they do not have the chaplains to manage that.

The religion of every service member is a part of their records from day one, commanders do not need to ask each person’s religion. The regulation seems to add that there is more than just “what religion are you” but much more personal delving into the spiritual life of the service members.

When on a base, you will see several chaplains representing many sects and also the ability to attend church off base. But honestly a unit would have one of those chaplains assigned to the unit for ceremonial reasons while the individuals can see any chaplain on base for personal care. The unit commander generally has no reason to know the individual‘s religious habits. So requiring the unit commanders to handle the spiritual needs of their unit is all kinds of wrong. A ship will have the records of the staff and be able to inform the chaplain of the required knowledge without prying into the individual service members life.

But overall, expecting all service members to have a spiritual readiness is what is unconstitutional. The military only needs to make available the opportunity for service members to practice their religion. Not to demand all have some spiritual nonsense in their life. Personally, I don’t qualify at all for spiritual readiness according to the listed guidelines. It’s all hokum and woo woo to me. Even when I was actively serving.

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I have a real problem with the idea of chaplains as counselors. Few if any have any psychological training, and while yes, there are things that people just need to talk over and not actual psychological help, there's no reason that they can't talk these things over with people who *do* have psychological training. The only barrier is the stigma that comes from needing "therapy" and if the military didn't perpetuate that, we'd all be better off. Problems could be detected when they're small, rather than waiting until they become big impediments to service or personal well-being. /rant

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Link: https://god.dailydot.com/chick-fil-a-meatless-sandwich/

Chik-fil-A announces new meatless burger, and the right-wingers has reacted predictably.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ae229328a6cdd15df461aa9dedfcadf6a51e65c82f9de58cdf0a43a8ff534f14.gif

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

It is impossible to out ❄ a consewertive.

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"𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘥𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘢𝘥𝘥 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘶 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘣𝘰𝘥𝘺 𝘦𝘭𝘴𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦, 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦𝘯'𝘵 𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘺𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘐 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘶 𝘵𝘰 𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘪𝘵!"

Take a chill pill, wingnuts. The chain is still owned by bigots, and nobody is making you eat the meat-free hatewiches.

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Feb 11, 2023·edited Feb 11, 2023

As avowed capitalists, conservatives can't seem to understand how companies do stuff that makes them money. And if it doesn't make them money, they'll drop it like a hot potato. It doesn't give me great confidence in conservatives' intelligence. But then I've never had that.

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When a corporation props up some conservative's agenda to make money, it's the free market at work. When a corporation does something a conservative objects to in order to make money, it's (choose any or all: "Millennials killed X," "the woke agenda," "cancel culture," etc). Their adherence to their own principles goes exactly as deep as their thought processes, and you can't measure either outside of a lab.

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I was not interested to ever put a foot in there before (IF I come in your country one day), I am even less interested when I read what is in their meatless* sandwich, give me some TSP or even some portobello instead 🤢

*I mistyped and the corrector write "measles* 😁

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OT: How can the creator of such wonderful characters and story be so damned wrong?

I love how she pointed to her trans "friend" to try to establish she wasn't anti-trans

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2020/07/j-k-rowling-compares-transgender-hormone-therapy-to-gay-conversion-therapy/

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"But I have a (𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘵 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦) friend!" has been used as a smokescreen for bigotry for all of human history. No one buys it when white supremacists try it; no one buys it when anti-Semites try it- and no one should buy it when transphobes try it.

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It's the old lie that many transgender teenagers are just confused gay kids. I haven't met a single gay man or lesbian who was ever confused about their gender. There may be some trans people, who through lack of language, confused what they were feeling with being gay.

Either way the solution is more exposure to gay and trans identities and people, so kids can have role models and names for what they're feeling.

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jk rowlings want to talk about confusion ? Ceryan Dau was past 50 when he understood he is a transman. I was at his wedding when he still believed he was a woman.

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Not many decades ago it was commonly accepted that children were their parents' possessions. It wasn't at all unusual to hear an adult ask a child "Who do you belong to?" In that, as in so many other things, hardcore christers are at least half a century behind the rest of us, clinging to the Ozzie and Harriet past as if it were real and mattered. Their kids are not human beings in their own right but merely mommy and daddy's belongings. And, like cars or electronic gizmos, they're expected to do what their owners want them to do. And when p&m aren't physically present, the remote control should compel the kids to "behave," just like the remote for the smart TV or blu ray player. If your child doesn't do what you want him or her to do, ooh, Jesus will be so pissed at you!

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OT but Darwin award winner here:

Lawyer dies after his hidden gun goes off during MRI scan

https://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-dies-hidden-gun-goes-182941782.html

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

In one of Tim Dorsey's Serge Storm novels, police respond to a break-in at an imaging center. A detective is on the phone with his CO saying, "The victim has six exit wounds." He pauses and then says, "No sir, no entrance wounds, just exit wounds."

Earlier that night, Serge came across a tourist couple who were being mugged at gun point. He intervened, and apologized to the couple for the miscreant giving them a bad experience in his Florida. He then took the mugger to an MRI center and had him swallow six bullets before strapping him in and turning on the MRI scanner.

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Feb 10, 2023·edited Feb 10, 2023

Jesus Christ, so many questions/comments. Firstly how would anyone so stoopid get a law degree? Secondly, who did he think was going to attack him in an MRI room? Thirdly, what sort of a nut job ... I give up. Some people are just beyond comprehension.

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Better question, was anyone else hurt? And if not, how were they so lucky?

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They mentioned de Novaes' family. If he had offspring, then no Darwin Award for him.

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