And yet they don't want to pay any taxes to help support prenatal care. And those who can, catholic congressmen and women, vote against it. And once that kid they forced to be born exits the birth canal, they are on their own.
With RFK Jr and the Catholic Church in charge of our healthcare, what could go wrong?
It’s hard to think of anyone or anything I’d trust less with my healthcare.
For those who are fairly new to this world and not a septuagenarian, we used to have decent healthcare in this country. Now, it is an ongoing nightmare.
The hoops we now have to jump through, the interminable waiting to see a doctor or receive needed treatment is stifling. The American healthcare system is already broken and it will be getting worse. The fascists are intentionally making our healthcare less affordable and less available. They want us dead and out of the way.
Unless, of course, you are RICH…then there are no worries.
Agreed. After all, the true definition of "church" isn't a building. It's a collection of like-minded individuals. By that definition, ANY group of people can be labelled a church.
Worth a reminder, the original Greek word "Ekklesia" (French Eglise) means "assembly of people". It had both a secular and religious meaning before being highjacked by christians.
By this reasoning, if you can call it that, schizophrenia, autism, and muscular dystrophy should be seen as gifts. Why bother treating any condition if it's just a gift from God? There is no situation so bad it cannot be made worse by religion. If there is an upside to this kind of stupidity it is that the Catholic Church is not doing itself any favors in the long run.
This document is written, as Hemant noted, by a bunch of supposedly-celibate old men. It is based on their interpretation of a big collection of books gathered into one, written over about a 900 year period... and rewritten continuously until the advent of the printing press kind of fixed it in its current forms. The Authors had no clue whatsoever what any organ in the body did or how. There were intersex babies, but basically only midwives saw them. There were gay people but they went unremarked. The Idea that Sexuality is based on differences in brain wiring had to wait late into the 20th century. Basing morality on some Late-Bronze-Age to Iron Age books is simply ridiculous. Imposing it on all sorts of people is cruel and a huge drag on building an ethical and beneficial society.
You can throw in cancer, fibromyalgia, hell, any other disease or disorder that the human animal can be afflicted with. It's all part of God's Creation™, so we should just accept it, eh?
Congrats, RCC. You've just demonstrated ZERO EMPATHY yet again.
That sounds fascinating, I've always tried to learn more about religion. They all start out rather benignly, then when they get to the organized part, something happens to that altruistic spark, and they seem to become all about power, and money. Even the new age stuff became money-grubbing.
Good to know that they'll let people die of breast cancer rather than perform a mastectomy.
Need an emergency hysterectomy due to post-partum hemorrhage? Ruptured ectopic pregnancy that requires a salpingectomy?
"Sorry ma'am, but all of those would nullify your sexual characteristics, so we'll just watch you bleed out. But rejoice, you'll be buried with all your original parts, because otherwise Jeebus wouldn't take you back!"
“Catholic teaching upholds the invaluable dignity of every human life
Ireland before 2013, Poland, Malta, others. Sorry, I forgot that as long as you have an uterus (or supposed to), you are not fully human and have no right to dignity.
I wonder how many priests went to the dentist to extract a wisdom tooth. Or got an organ transplant. After all, isn't suffering part of a christian devotion to their god ?
The Catholic Church was opposed to anesthesia was first coming into general use, claiming it robbed people of the dignity of suffering. That soon became an untenable position and they rationalized their way around it.
The Ghoul of Kolkata’s idea of healthcare for herself was flying first class to both Europe and the US to get the finest care possible. She wanted no part of “God’s kiss.”
The universe was most definitely NOT the product of 'creation' or a creator. There is no evidence whatsoever for this baseless assertion. Catholics make noises about embracing science. Just more lies.
Catholics agree with science when it even remotely resembles their beliefs, or when they've had their nose rubbed in it so severely that they can no longer ignore the facts. That's what has happened with Galileo and Darwin, and it took them centuries to come around.
As for the trans issue, I suspect we will be a long while waiting, while they decide whether or not to grow the fuck up.
You have to be careful and not go full "guilt by association". Remember that Darwin's theory was almost dead by the end of the 19th century, and was only rescued by Gregor Mendel's founding of genetics. Mendel was a Catholic monk.
Likewise, the Catholic priest Georges Lemaître was a first class physicist. He was one of the first people to provide an exact solution to the Einstein field equations (The Soviet physicist, Alexander Friedmann was the first, which is why we have the Friedmann, Lemaître, Robertson, Walker metric in precedence order)
Individual Catholics may have made positive contributions to humanity, but the organization as a whole remains anachronistic and corrupt. I have no reason to slide them any slack.
The Catholic Church only moves forward when outside pressure gives them no other choice, and when they DO make some sort of major change, that change is halting and resisted. As I've said elsewhere here, the RCC lives on doctrine and dogma, and all the friendly faces that Francis or Leo XIV may try to put on don't change that fundamental fact. This doesn't even mention their continuing refusal to deal positively with the ongoing issue of priests' sexual abuse of children.
On an issue like trans supportive care, I can't imagine that they will change in my lifetime or yours.
Good thing the USA isn't a Catholic theocracy. Those in charge would brand you as a heretic for your views. When the Church is all-powerful, horrible things ensue.
"I would say about 30% of all Catholics think and behave how the Catholic church tells people to. "
What percentage of women do you think use contraceptives?
"I do believe if the Catholic church wants to move forward we Must have women priests and women Bishops and hopefully a woman Pope"
The major reason the Church of England decided to admit women priests was because they couldn't get sufficient male clergy to replace the ones that were retiring or dying of old age. My understanding is that the RCC has similar problems, though their fix seems to be the admission of priests from 3rd world countries.
"If women choose to use contraceptives to make sure they don't get pregnant how exactly is that my personal concern."
As I have said on here before, I tend towards a Rawlsian ethics, one of the original principles is that everyone has maximal liberty in so far as it does not impinge on the liberty of others.
I therefore agree with you, it is none of my business if women use contraceptives, but to accentuate my point, it is nothing to do with the RCC either.
As someone who worked in reproductive healthcare I can tell you Catholics use contraceptives, and have abortions at the same rate as all other groups of women. And there is nothing wrong with that, in fact I am glad they do.
“Since “creation is prior to us and must be received as a gift,” we have a duty “to protect our humanity,” which means first of all, “accepting it and respecting it as it was created.””
They don’t understand what a gift is. You can’t put conditions on gifts, then they’re not gifts they’re extortion. Once a gift is given, the receiver can do with it as they wish, and that means transgender people can change their bodies to match their minds.
“means that the Catholic Church would rather have them live a lie (and be miserable) than give them the kind of care that would allow many of them to feel whole.”
That’s exactly how the Catholic Church works. The crusades were live a life based on a lie that you believe in their dogma, or die. This is no different.
If I remember my sociology degree from a few years ago, gender theory is simply the study of gender in various societies. Is this just another case of conservatives defining terms in a way that they prefer? Like "woke".
“”respect the fundamental order of the human person as an intrinsic unity of body and soul, with a body that is sexually differentiated.””
But the unity between body and soul are not in unity when a person is trans, that why there is dysmorphia. That’s the whole point.
And it sounds like “with a body that is sexually differentiated” is their way of setting up the hierarchy of me being superior to women. Trans people wouldn’t even be a thing in moral discourse if they didn’t want women to be oppressed so badly. It’s only bad to change genders if one gender is bad and the other isn’t.
Didn't their gawd approve of sexual modification when he dictated that Abraham and all his were to get circumcisions? Might be just a little hole in their argument.
People have been enthused about Pope Francis and now Pope Leo, as well as the US Cardinal for their stances on immigration, but this shows some things never change. This is why they have no moral authority and why religion needs to be relegated to the sidelines. For too many of us the Catholic hospital is the only hospital where we live.
The fact that too many only have a Catholic hospital nearby says everything. It’s very strategic. Thousands of women have horror stories of their treatment in these hospitals. You are treated as less than human. If I hear another person praise the Catholic Church about immigration I’m going to puke. One only has to look at their long history of death and destruction in the Americas to understand how they really feel.
The 2009 Intelligence Squared debate on the topic: "Is the Catholic Church a force for good in the world?" addressed this issue, with Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry taking the side opposing the proposal. They won the debate in a rout.
The complete debate and multiple segments are available on YouTube. It is very much worth a look.
The only "authority" they have is what the sheeple have ceded to them. Pull that rug out from under them and maybe they have a lot of valuable holdings, but any authority would evaporate as fast as you could blink.
So they're OK with patients (and doctors) telling lies about a medical condition, so they can get treatment. Well that's good - at least that's not prohiibited anywhere.
That use of the R word shows that Trump's dementia has taken over. His filter is gone. I fully expect him to start dropping N bombs whenever that upper anus of his opens.
"It was everything you’ve come to expect from a group of elderly men who have never had (heterosexual) sex, much less understand the nuances of sex and gender, but pretend to be experts anyway."
Yet another reason the "pro-life" Church of the Holy Pedophile needs to get out of healthcare.
All religious institutions need to be out of healthcare.
Yes, If they can't be arsed to give proper medical standard of care, they should be forced to divest.
Only pro life if that life is either fetal or paying them.
And yet they don't want to pay any taxes to help support prenatal care. And those who can, catholic congressmen and women, vote against it. And once that kid they forced to be born exits the birth canal, they are on their own.
With RFK Jr and the Catholic Church in charge of our healthcare, what could go wrong?
It’s hard to think of anyone or anything I’d trust less with my healthcare.
For those who are fairly new to this world and not a septuagenarian, we used to have decent healthcare in this country. Now, it is an ongoing nightmare.
The hoops we now have to jump through, the interminable waiting to see a doctor or receive needed treatment is stifling. The American healthcare system is already broken and it will be getting worse. The fascists are intentionally making our healthcare less affordable and less available. They want us dead and out of the way.
Unless, of course, you are RICH…then there are no worries.
They need to get out of everything and go back into the church.
Agreed. After all, the true definition of "church" isn't a building. It's a collection of like-minded individuals. By that definition, ANY group of people can be labelled a church.
Worth a reminder, the original Greek word "Ekklesia" (French Eglise) means "assembly of people". It had both a secular and religious meaning before being highjacked by christians.
But that could easily apply to "like-minded" child sex offenders inside and outside the catholic and other churches.
Except the child sex offenders are furtive and don’t want to be thought of as a group. They want to keep their actvities hidden from the public.
FYI Disgusting, revolting, putrid but...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-10-28/paedophiles-share-childcare-abuse-tips-on-dark-web/105938932
By this reasoning, if you can call it that, schizophrenia, autism, and muscular dystrophy should be seen as gifts. Why bother treating any condition if it's just a gift from God? There is no situation so bad it cannot be made worse by religion. If there is an upside to this kind of stupidity it is that the Catholic Church is not doing itself any favors in the long run.
This document is written, as Hemant noted, by a bunch of supposedly-celibate old men. It is based on their interpretation of a big collection of books gathered into one, written over about a 900 year period... and rewritten continuously until the advent of the printing press kind of fixed it in its current forms. The Authors had no clue whatsoever what any organ in the body did or how. There were intersex babies, but basically only midwives saw them. There were gay people but they went unremarked. The Idea that Sexuality is based on differences in brain wiring had to wait late into the 20th century. Basing morality on some Late-Bronze-Age to Iron Age books is simply ridiculous. Imposing it on all sorts of people is cruel and a huge drag on building an ethical and beneficial society.
I said ‘supposedly’. I’ll bet there were few virgins in the room where the bishops met.
You can throw in cancer, fibromyalgia, hell, any other disease or disorder that the human animal can be afflicted with. It's all part of God's Creation™, so we should just accept it, eh?
Congrats, RCC. You've just demonstrated ZERO EMPATHY yet again.
Oh yes. I just gave a few examples for brevity's sake. ;)
As an autistic person, yeah, I view it as a powerful and positive experience.
I have empathy for all life, see patterns everywhere, find 4leaf clovers with ease, and am always curious; asking uncomfortable questions.
I don’t fit into the tamed and dumbed-down population, and that’s why oligarchs, and their tools in religion fear me…
That sounds fascinating, I've always tried to learn more about religion. They all start out rather benignly, then when they get to the organized part, something happens to that altruistic spark, and they seem to become all about power, and money. Even the new age stuff became money-grubbing.
Well said, oraxx
Good to know that they'll let people die of breast cancer rather than perform a mastectomy.
Need an emergency hysterectomy due to post-partum hemorrhage? Ruptured ectopic pregnancy that requires a salpingectomy?
"Sorry ma'am, but all of those would nullify your sexual characteristics, so we'll just watch you bleed out. But rejoice, you'll be buried with all your original parts, because otherwise Jeebus wouldn't take you back!"
“grave violations of human dignity.”
“Catholic teaching upholds the invaluable dignity of every human life
Ireland before 2013, Poland, Malta, others. Sorry, I forgot that as long as you have an uterus (or supposed to), you are not fully human and have no right to dignity.
I wonder how many priests went to the dentist to extract a wisdom tooth. Or got an organ transplant. After all, isn't suffering part of a christian devotion to their god ?
The Catholic Church was opposed to anesthesia was first coming into general use, claiming it robbed people of the dignity of suffering. That soon became an untenable position and they rationalized their way around it.
"... isn't suffering part of a christian devotion to their god ?"
Agnes Bojaxhiu would INSIST on that point, I suspect ... though NOT FOR HERSELF.
The Ghoul of Kolkata’s idea of healthcare for herself was flying first class to both Europe and the US to get the finest care possible. She wanted no part of “God’s kiss.”
Pre-CISE-ly!
"...creation is prior to us..."
The universe was most definitely NOT the product of 'creation' or a creator. There is no evidence whatsoever for this baseless assertion. Catholics make noises about embracing science. Just more lies.
Catholics agree with science when it even remotely resembles their beliefs, or when they've had their nose rubbed in it so severely that they can no longer ignore the facts. That's what has happened with Galileo and Darwin, and it took them centuries to come around.
As for the trans issue, I suspect we will be a long while waiting, while they decide whether or not to grow the fuck up.
"That's what has happened with Galileo"
1633 - under threat of torture, Galileo recants the idea that the earth goes around the sun
1992 - the RCC apologises
We are still waiting the apology for the physical and spiritual* murder of Hypatia of Alexandria.
*The medieval catholic church made her a christian martyr killed by Pagans.
It's not available legally in France.
Only took 'em three-and-a-half centuries to come around. How progressive of them! 😝
Considering their rules are mostly last Millennia in regards to women? That is progressive!
You have to be careful and not go full "guilt by association". Remember that Darwin's theory was almost dead by the end of the 19th century, and was only rescued by Gregor Mendel's founding of genetics. Mendel was a Catholic monk.
Likewise, the Catholic priest Georges Lemaître was a first class physicist. He was one of the first people to provide an exact solution to the Einstein field equations (The Soviet physicist, Alexander Friedmann was the first, which is why we have the Friedmann, Lemaître, Robertson, Walker metric in precedence order)
We often have to separate the creator from the creation, Clapton for example. A great musician but a raging bigot.
I blame his alcoholism. He's still a shit person. And has some great music.
Individual Catholics may have made positive contributions to humanity, but the organization as a whole remains anachronistic and corrupt. I have no reason to slide them any slack.
And I DON'T.
agreed
Sounds about right
As long as they require people to hold their butts just so to honor their undetectable god, it will remain so.
Only when they can't refuse* it anymore, or when it allows them to impose their dogma.
*Even then, they are kicking and screaming, and looking for any loophole (pun intended).
The Catholic Church only moves forward when outside pressure gives them no other choice, and when they DO make some sort of major change, that change is halting and resisted. As I've said elsewhere here, the RCC lives on doctrine and dogma, and all the friendly faces that Francis or Leo XIV may try to put on don't change that fundamental fact. This doesn't even mention their continuing refusal to deal positively with the ongoing issue of priests' sexual abuse of children.
On an issue like trans supportive care, I can't imagine that they will change in my lifetime or yours.
Good thing the USA isn't a Catholic theocracy. Those in charge would brand you as a heretic for your views. When the Church is all-powerful, horrible things ensue.
Not for lack of trying by the Heritage foundation.
"I would say about 30% of all Catholics think and behave how the Catholic church tells people to. "
What percentage of women do you think use contraceptives?
"I do believe if the Catholic church wants to move forward we Must have women priests and women Bishops and hopefully a woman Pope"
The major reason the Church of England decided to admit women priests was because they couldn't get sufficient male clergy to replace the ones that were retiring or dying of old age. My understanding is that the RCC has similar problems, though their fix seems to be the admission of priests from 3rd world countries.
"Not many women use contraceptives."
It's an old paper (2011), but the data doesn't support your assertion - https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf
Apparently, some 98% of Catholic women have used contraception rather than the so-called natural family planning.
"If women choose to use contraceptives to make sure they don't get pregnant how exactly is that my personal concern."
As I have said on here before, I tend towards a Rawlsian ethics, one of the original principles is that everyone has maximal liberty in so far as it does not impinge on the liberty of others.
I therefore agree with you, it is none of my business if women use contraceptives, but to accentuate my point, it is nothing to do with the RCC either.
Why are you attacking someone who is correcting your misspoken numbers, instead of addressing that? He never said jack about women's bodily autonomy.
As someone who worked in reproductive healthcare I can tell you Catholics use contraceptives, and have abortions at the same rate as all other groups of women. And there is nothing wrong with that, in fact I am glad they do.
I read the Gnostic gospels back in the days so am familiar with her work.
It's always the literal-minded fundamentalists, who are the problem in every religion.
"the Vatican says trans identities seek to “annihilate the concept of nature.“"
<Looks out window. Nature not annihilated.>
These morons need to cut down on their LSD use.
We're getting annihilated tonight. First snowstorm of the season.
Eta: Just saw 8 to 13 inches. (of snow, you perverts : )
Are those 'internet inches"?
🤣🤣
<Looks out window. Nature not annihilated.>
Hey, the GOP is trying.
Oh, the GOP certainly try a person.
Hmmm, tell that to the last of my garden I cut down today. :D
“Since “creation is prior to us and must be received as a gift,” we have a duty “to protect our humanity,” which means first of all, “accepting it and respecting it as it was created.””
They don’t understand what a gift is. You can’t put conditions on gifts, then they’re not gifts they’re extortion. Once a gift is given, the receiver can do with it as they wish, and that means transgender people can change their bodies to match their minds.
Another example of Christian fascist not knowing what words mean!
Also that would mean no tattoos, piercings, cosmetic surgery, imagine the republican trump crew if they outlawed breast augmentation.
“means that the Catholic Church would rather have them live a lie (and be miserable) than give them the kind of care that would allow many of them to feel whole.”
That’s exactly how the Catholic Church works. The crusades were live a life based on a lie that you believe in their dogma, or die. This is no different.
Not to mention the Conquistadors and their convert-or-die missionaries in the "New World."
If I remember my sociology degree from a few years ago, gender theory is simply the study of gender in various societies. Is this just another case of conservatives defining terms in a way that they prefer? Like "woke".
Yes. Like “murder”. Or, my favorite, “legalized murder”. You know, like a married bachelor.
“”respect the fundamental order of the human person as an intrinsic unity of body and soul, with a body that is sexually differentiated.””
But the unity between body and soul are not in unity when a person is trans, that why there is dysmorphia. That’s the whole point.
And it sounds like “with a body that is sexually differentiated” is their way of setting up the hierarchy of me being superior to women. Trans people wouldn’t even be a thing in moral discourse if they didn’t want women to be oppressed so badly. It’s only bad to change genders if one gender is bad and the other isn’t.
Fucking assholes.
Didn't their gawd approve of sexual modification when he dictated that Abraham and all his were to get circumcisions? Might be just a little hole in their argument.
Dicktated. FTFY : )
People have been enthused about Pope Francis and now Pope Leo, as well as the US Cardinal for their stances on immigration, but this shows some things never change. This is why they have no moral authority and why religion needs to be relegated to the sidelines. For too many of us the Catholic hospital is the only hospital where we live.
The fact that too many only have a Catholic hospital nearby says everything. It’s very strategic. Thousands of women have horror stories of their treatment in these hospitals. You are treated as less than human. If I hear another person praise the Catholic Church about immigration I’m going to puke. One only has to look at their long history of death and destruction in the Americas to understand how they really feel.
The 2009 Intelligence Squared debate on the topic: "Is the Catholic Church a force for good in the world?" addressed this issue, with Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry taking the side opposing the proposal. They won the debate in a rout.
The complete debate and multiple segments are available on YouTube. It is very much worth a look.
Will check it out - thanks
Just for fun, here's Hitchens' and Fry's contribution to the main debate. Some of the very best stuff I've ever heard from either man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5_Uxe5bZY&list=PLymw2qVmixlOTEkGa8xiENiD-0EgkK97b&index=1
The only "authority" they have is what the sheeple have ceded to them. Pull that rug out from under them and maybe they have a lot of valuable holdings, but any authority would evaporate as fast as you could blink.
And that SO needs to happen.
The xtian messengers change but the message is always the same: hate
And OBEDIENCE ... which they'll get from me about a billion years after their fictitious hell freezes over.
So they're OK with patients (and doctors) telling lies about a medical condition, so they can get treatment. Well that's good - at least that's not prohiibited anywhere.
𝐵𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑙𝑜𝑔𝑖𝑐, ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑦 𝑜𝑟 𝑔𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝐿𝐴𝑆𝐼𝐾 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑎 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝐺𝑜𝑑’𝑠 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑓𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑠𝑖𝑔𝑛 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢’𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ.
With the same logic having your baby circumcised at birth is also a direct insult towards God.
https://bsky.app/profile/briantylercohen.bsky.social/post/3m6pt6svq6s2y
Typical conservative. Waits until it affects him.
That use of the R word shows that Trump's dementia has taken over. His filter is gone. I fully expect him to start dropping N bombs whenever that upper anus of his opens.
I have NEVER
Drowned anyone. Your god droned every living thing.
I have NEVER threatened anyone with eternal hell for being LGBTQ. Your god of "unconditional love has.
I have NEVER sent anyone to hell. Your evil god has.
See "Mostly Harmful" and "Beyond the Crusades" by Paulkovich for some of the bloodierr moments in church history.
"It was everything you’ve come to expect from a group of elderly men who have never had (heterosexual) sex, much less understand the nuances of sex and gender, but pretend to be experts anyway."
Jesus, Inc. (NYSE: JEEZ) board of directors.