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NOGODZ20's avatar

Yet another reason the "pro-life" Church of the Holy Pedophile needs to get out of healthcare.

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oraxx's avatar

All religious institutions need to be out of healthcare.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

Yes, If they can't be arsed to give proper medical standard of care, they should be forced to divest.

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dontblameme's avatar

Catholic churches judge others and only take people who meet their criteria of worthy of being helped.

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dontblameme's avatar

Rather die on the street then if not every man woman or child can be helped at every hospital.

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dontblameme's avatar

I really think in my heart that since children are getting raped by priests every single hour of every day that the Catholic church not just Catholic hospitals need to go out of business. Have people worship at home. That is how the Christian church started in peoples homes

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Agreed. After all, the true definition of "church" isn't a building. It's a collection of like-minded individuals. By that definition, ANY group of people can be labelled a church.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Worth a reminder, the original Greek word "Ekklesia" (French Eglise) means "assembly of people". It had both a secular and religious meaning before being highjacked by christians.

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dontblameme's avatar

Definetly.

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dontblameme's avatar

And I am a Catholic. I haven't gone to my church for Mass in years but I do watch Mass on TV.

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Joe King's avatar

Only pro life if that life is either fetal or paying them.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

And yet they don't want to pay any taxes to help support prenatal care. And those who can, catholic congressmen and women, vote against it. And once that kid they forced to be born exits the birth canal, they are on their own.

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Walt Svirsky's avatar

With RFK Jr and the Catholic Church in charge of our healthcare, what could go wrong?

It’s hard to think of anyone or anything I’d trust less with my healthcare.

For those who are fairly new to this world and not a septuagenarian, we used to have decent healthcare in this country. Now, it is an ongoing nightmare.

The hoops we now have to jump through, the interminable waiting to see a doctor or receive needed treatment is stifling. The American healthcare system is already broken and it will be getting worse. The fascists are intentionally making our healthcare less affordable and less available. They want us dead and out of the way.

Unless, of course, you are RICH…then there are no worries.

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Matri's avatar

They need to get out of everything and go back into the church.

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oraxx's avatar

By this reasoning, if you can call it that, schizophrenia, autism, and muscular dystrophy should be seen as gifts. Why bother treating any condition if it's just a gift from God? There is no situation so bad it cannot be made worse by religion. If there is an upside to this kind of stupidity it is that the Catholic Church is not doing itself any favors in the long run.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

You can throw in cancer, fibromyalgia, hell, any other disease or disorder that the human animal can be afflicted with. It's all part of God's Creation™, so we should just accept it, eh?

Congrats, RCC. You've just demonstrated ZERO EMPATHY yet again.

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oraxx's avatar

Oh yes. I just gave a few examples for brevity's sake. ;)

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Stephen Brady's avatar

This document is written, as Hemant noted, by a bunch of supposedly-celibate old men. It is based on their interpretation of a big collection of books gathered into one, written over about a 900 year period... and rewritten continuously until the advent of the printing press kind of fixed it in its current forms. The Authors had no clue whatsoever what any organ in the body did or how. There were intersex babies, but basically only midwives saw them. There were gay people but they went unremarked. The Idea that Sexuality is based on differences in brain wiring had to wait late into the 20th century. Basing morality on some Late-Bronze-Age to Iron Age books is simply ridiculous. Imposing it on all sorts of people is cruel and a huge drag on building an ethical and beneficial society.

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dontblameme's avatar

Priests celibate? You sure about that? The Catholic church frowns on Catholic priests having sex with women but is okay with priests having sex with other priests. I highly doubt these celibate old men are virgins.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I said ‘supposedly’. I’ll bet there were few virgins in the room where the bishops met.

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Alierias's avatar

As an autistic person, yeah, I view it as a powerful and positive experience.

I have empathy for all life, see patterns everywhere, find 4leaf clovers with ease, and am always curious; asking uncomfortable questions.

I don’t fit into the tamed and dumbed-down population, and that’s why oligarchs, and their tools in religion fear me…

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

Seeing patterns everywhere can be a curse. I am seeing the patterns of behaviorism everywhere, and it must be eradicated. Rewards and punishments to coerce everyone to comply to the norm/be average--how boring! How uncreative. How pathological.

It's very tough living in a country where the average person has a 6th grade reading level and "helping professionals" think you're crazy because you can use complex sentences and vocabulary and reference philosophy and theory. I was listening to a Spanish psychiatrist the other day, a practitioner of Viktor Frankl's Logotherapy, who does research into "spiritual narcissism" and "where religion went wrong," and it almost brought me to tears because she's very wonderfully interdisciplinary. They still value the intellect over there, and listening to her made ME feel uneducated.

I know that if I tried to have a conversation like that here, people would say "use plain English!" and look at me like I was crazy. [Maribel Rodriguez. She's not an atheist--she's into comparing medieval Christian mysticism with evangelical fundamentalism and Silicon Valley ethics-less "mindfulness"--but refreshing to listen to.]

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

That sounds fascinating, I've always tried to learn more about religion. They all start out rather benignly, then when they get to the organized part, something happens to that altruistic spark, and they seem to become all about power, and money. Even the new age stuff became money-grubbing.

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dontblameme's avatar

I was excommunicated from my church for having Autism. Autism is a unique and sacred gift.

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dontblameme's avatar

Okay I am clarifying that statement that I was excommunicated wasn't technically excommunicated but certainly feels that way.Reverend William T Kelly of Saint Paul's Parish Cambridge,Massachusetts( the Harvard U Catholic students church) did take me to court over my Autism. If I ever go back to my church I will go to prison says Judge Frank. So instead of going to another church and having another pastor not understand my unique gifts I chose to worship at home and don't piss off anybody who doesn't understand that we are all unique and loved individuals. So in a way it does feel like excommunication.

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

Holy crap!

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Walt Svirsky's avatar

Well said, oraxx

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

“grave violations of human dignity.”

“Catholic teaching upholds the invaluable dignity of every human life

Ireland before 2013, Poland, Malta, others. Sorry, I forgot that as long as you have an uterus (or supposed to), you are not fully human and have no right to dignity.

I wonder how many priests went to the dentist to extract a wisdom tooth. Or got an organ transplant. After all, isn't suffering part of a christian devotion to their god ?

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oraxx's avatar

The Catholic Church was opposed to anesthesia was first coming into general use, claiming it robbed people of the dignity of suffering. That soon became an untenable position and they rationalized their way around it.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

"... isn't suffering part of a christian devotion to their god ?"

Agnes Bojaxhiu would INSIST on that point, I suspect ... though NOT FOR HERSELF.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

The Ghoul of Kolkata’s idea of healthcare for herself was flying first class to both Europe and the US to get the finest care possible. She wanted no part of “God’s kiss.”

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Pre-CISE-ly!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

"...creation is prior to us..."

The universe was most definitely NOT the product of 'creation' or a creator. There is no evidence whatsoever for this baseless assertion. Catholics make noises about embracing science. Just more lies.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Catholics agree with science when it even remotely resembles their beliefs, or when they've had their nose rubbed in it so severely that they can no longer ignore the facts. That's what has happened with Galileo and Darwin, and it took them centuries to come around.

As for the trans issue, I suspect we will be a long while waiting, while they decide whether or not to grow the fuck up.

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Kukaan Ei Missään's avatar

"That's what has happened with Galileo"

1633 - under threat of torture, Galileo recants the idea that the earth goes around the sun

1992 - the RCC apologises

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

We are still waiting the apology for the physical and spiritual* murder of Hypatia of Alexandria.

*The medieval catholic church made her a christian martyr killed by Pagans.

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

I know the Spanish movie Agora is fictionalized, but it's so good. It feels prophetic, unfortunately. Oh, I related to the end! I won't give it away. Don't let the fascist theocrats' bad reviews scare you off of a movie that so soundly condemns religious ignorance, accurate or not.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It's not available legally in France.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Only took 'em three-and-a-half centuries to come around. How progressive of them! 😝

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

Considering their rules are mostly last Millennia in regards to women? That is progressive!

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Kukaan Ei Missään's avatar

You have to be careful and not go full "guilt by association". Remember that Darwin's theory was almost dead by the end of the 19th century, and was only rescued by Gregor Mendel's founding of genetics. Mendel was a Catholic monk.

Likewise, the Catholic priest Georges Lemaître was a first class physicist. He was one of the first people to provide an exact solution to the Einstein field equations (The Soviet physicist, Alexander Friedmann was the first, which is why we have the Friedmann, Lemaître, Robertson, Walker metric in precedence order)

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Runfastandwin's avatar

We often have to separate the creator from the creation, Clapton for example. A great musician but a raging bigot.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

I blame his alcoholism. He's still a shit person. And has some great music.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Individual Catholics may have made positive contributions to humanity, but the organization as a whole remains anachronistic and corrupt. I have no reason to slide them any slack.

And I DON'T.

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

FYI some of us like to call it Darwin & Wallace's theory now, to give the poor kid trapped with malaria his due for sending Darwin his notes. After all, Wallace overcame great odds to come to his conclusions, while Darwin was sort of spoonfed--his grandfather wrote romantic poems about evolution.

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Runfastandwin's avatar

Sounds about right

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Stephen Brady's avatar

As long as they require people to hold their butts just so to honor their undetectable god, it will remain so.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Only when they can't refuse* it anymore, or when it allows them to impose their dogma.

*Even then, they are kicking and screaming, and looking for any loophole (pun intended).

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dontblameme's avatar

I would say about 30% of all Catholics think and behave how the Catholic church tells people to. 70% if not more believe it's a woman's right to choose, that women priests would be very welcome and that we must do more about the sexual abuse crisis. 70% if not more believe the Bible as a guild line not as an actual fact but still people view the Catholic church as it was 200 years ago. I am a Catholic but I also believe in the right a woman has over her own body, I am a Trans and Queer supporter and I do believe if the Catholic church wants to move forward we Must have women priests and women Bishops and hopefully a woman Pope

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

The Catholic Church only moves forward when outside pressure gives them no other choice, and when they DO make some sort of major change, that change is halting and resisted. As I've said elsewhere here, the RCC lives on doctrine and dogma, and all the friendly faces that Francis or Leo XIV may try to put on don't change that fundamental fact. This doesn't even mention their continuing refusal to deal positively with the ongoing issue of priests' sexual abuse of children.

On an issue like trans supportive care, I can't imagine that they will change in my lifetime or yours.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Good thing the USA isn't a Catholic theocracy. Those in charge would brand you as a heretic for your views. When the Church is all-powerful, horrible things ensue.

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dontblameme's avatar

I truly hope in my lifetime that if the church cannot control it's priests and keeps covering up for them, that the church insists on having the final word on a women's body and that it's racism continues it goes out of business.And stays out of business. Or we could do away with separation of Church and State and have all priests subjected to the same laws that we as citizens obey. That would shut them down faster.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

Not for lack of trying by the Heritage foundation.

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Kukaan Ei Missään's avatar

"I would say about 30% of all Catholics think and behave how the Catholic church tells people to. "

What percentage of women do you think use contraceptives?

"I do believe if the Catholic church wants to move forward we Must have women priests and women Bishops and hopefully a woman Pope"

The major reason the Church of England decided to admit women priests was because they couldn't get sufficient male clergy to replace the ones that were retiring or dying of old age. My understanding is that the RCC has similar problems, though their fix seems to be the admission of priests from 3rd world countries.

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dontblameme's avatar

Not many women use contraceptives. I don't have the results from that. Good question. In the Bible it's implied Jesus would have known women deacons and women who had some authority at Jewish synagogues probably many employed at the Temple. Women deacons are mentioned in the New Testament. So why the hate about women in the Catholic Church.

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Kukaan Ei Missään's avatar

"Not many women use contraceptives."

It's an old paper (2011), but the data doesn't support your assertion - https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf

Apparently, some 98% of Catholic women have used contraception rather than the so-called natural family planning.

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dontblameme's avatar

I guess it matters to men like you. If women choose to use contraceptives to make sure they don't get pregnant how exactly is that my personal concern. Or a man's business.

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Kukaan Ei Missään's avatar

"If women choose to use contraceptives to make sure they don't get pregnant how exactly is that my personal concern."

As I have said on here before, I tend towards a Rawlsian ethics, one of the original principles is that everyone has maximal liberty in so far as it does not impinge on the liberty of others.

I therefore agree with you, it is none of my business if women use contraceptives, but to accentuate my point, it is nothing to do with the RCC either.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

Why are you attacking someone who is correcting your misspoken numbers, instead of addressing that? He never said jack about women's bodily autonomy.

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dontblameme's avatar

It's my body my choice. And any man is not going to tell me what I can or cannot do to my body. Okay. Good.

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

Check out some of Elaine Pagels's books. I've noticed she now has YouTube videos, too, although I haven't watched them. The Origin of Satan is my favorite.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

I read the Gnostic gospels back in the days so am familiar with her work.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

As someone who worked in reproductive healthcare I can tell you Catholics use contraceptives, and have abortions at the same rate as all other groups of women. And there is nothing wrong with that, in fact I am glad they do.

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Lorraine Gaudet's avatar

I was hoping that Leo would take the American Bishops to task for this cruel, and Inhumane lack of charity and love. I was brought up Catholic, and even spent some time in a convent and the God I love is the God of love, and the only rule that I know and follow is to treat others the way you want to be treated. I had such high hopes for Leo.

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dontblameme's avatar

Can't stand leo. I miss Pope Francis.

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Lorraine Gaudet's avatar

I like Leo and I liked Francis

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

It's always the literal-minded fundamentalists, who are the problem in every religion.

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wreck's avatar

"the Vatican says trans identities seek to “annihilate the concept of nature.“"

<Looks out window. Nature not annihilated.>

These morons need to cut down on their LSD use.

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larry parker's avatar

We're getting annihilated tonight. First snowstorm of the season.

Eta: Just saw 8 to 13 inches. (of snow, you perverts : )

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Boreal's avatar

Are those 'internet inches"?

🤣🤣

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dontblameme's avatar

Larry only some of us are perverts. Been there, done that I know you were talking about snow. 🌨️

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dontblameme's avatar

Sorry for your snow.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

<Looks out window. Nature not annihilated.>

Hey, the GOP is trying.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Oh, the GOP certainly try a person.

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dontblameme's avatar

Some fish have the ability to change sex. And since of course "God" (nobody freak I put God in parenthesis) made those fish and plenty of truly unique creatures then "God"must be okay with Trans people. I am choosing to think and rightly too that what "God" cares about is peace among everybody that people care more about their neighbors well- being than what their neighbor does to themselves. I care more about a person as a person than what their sexual identity is. Wish Washington,D..C. and trump could too.

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dontblameme's avatar

Quotation marks not parenthesis. Yah it's been decades since I last went to school. You can freak over my misnaming the quotation marks!

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Kay-El's avatar

Hmmm, tell that to the last of my garden I cut down today. :D

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“Since “creation is prior to us and must be received as a gift,” we have a duty “to protect our humanity,” which means first of all, “accepting it and respecting it as it was created.””

They don’t understand what a gift is. You can’t put conditions on gifts, then they’re not gifts they’re extortion. Once a gift is given, the receiver can do with it as they wish, and that means transgender people can change their bodies to match their minds.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

Also that would mean no tattoos, piercings, cosmetic surgery, imagine the republican trump crew if they outlawed breast augmentation.

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John Smith's avatar

Another example of Christian fascist not knowing what words mean!

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“means that the Catholic Church would rather have them live a lie (and be miserable) than give them the kind of care that would allow many of them to feel whole.”

That’s exactly how the Catholic Church works. The crusades were live a life based on a lie that you believe in their dogma, or die. This is no different.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Not to mention the Conquistadors and their convert-or-die missionaries in the "New World."

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“”respect the fundamental order of the human person as an intrinsic unity of body and soul, with a body that is sexually differentiated.””

But the unity between body and soul are not in unity when a person is trans, that why there is dysmorphia. That’s the whole point.

And it sounds like “with a body that is sexually differentiated” is their way of setting up the hierarchy of me being superior to women. Trans people wouldn’t even be a thing in moral discourse if they didn’t want women to be oppressed so badly. It’s only bad to change genders if one gender is bad and the other isn’t.

Fucking assholes.

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regmeyer's avatar

Didn't their gawd approve of sexual modification when he dictated that Abraham and all his were to get circumcisions? Might be just a little hole in their argument.

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larry parker's avatar

Dicktated. FTFY : )

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it's an uncivil war's avatar

People have been enthused about Pope Francis and now Pope Leo, as well as the US Cardinal for their stances on immigration, but this shows some things never change. This is why they have no moral authority and why religion needs to be relegated to the sidelines. For too many of us the Catholic hospital is the only hospital where we live.

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Linda's avatar

The fact that too many only have a Catholic hospital nearby says everything. It’s very strategic. Thousands of women have horror stories of their treatment in these hospitals. You are treated as less than human. If I hear another person praise the Catholic Church about immigration I’m going to puke. One only has to look at their long history of death and destruction in the Americas to understand how they really feel.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

The 2009 Intelligence Squared debate on the topic: "Is the Catholic Church a force for good in the world?" addressed this issue, with Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry taking the side opposing the proposal. They won the debate in a rout.

The complete debate and multiple segments are available on YouTube. It is very much worth a look.

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Linda's avatar

Will check it out - thanks

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Just for fun, here's Hitchens' and Fry's contribution to the main debate. Some of the very best stuff I've ever heard from either man!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5_Uxe5bZY&list=PLymw2qVmixlOTEkGa8xiENiD-0EgkK97b&index=1

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

The only "authority" they have is what the sheeple have ceded to them. Pull that rug out from under them and maybe they have a lot of valuable holdings, but any authority would evaporate as fast as you could blink.

And that SO needs to happen.

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Boreal's avatar

The xtian messengers change but the message is always the same: hate

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

And OBEDIENCE ... which they'll get from me about a billion years after their fictitious hell freezes over.

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Len's avatar

So they're OK with patients (and doctors) telling lies about a medical condition, so they can get treatment. Well that's good - at least that's not prohiibited anywhere.

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avis piscivorus's avatar

𝐵𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑙𝑜𝑔𝑖𝑐, ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑦 𝑜𝑟 𝑔𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝐿𝐴𝑆𝐼𝐾 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑎 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝐺𝑜𝑑’𝑠 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑓𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑠𝑖𝑔𝑛 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢’𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ.

With the same logic having your baby circumcised at birth is also a direct insult towards God.

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dammit barry's avatar

I have NEVER

Drowned anyone. Your god droned every living thing.

I have NEVER threatened anyone with eternal hell for being LGBTQ. Your god of "unconditional love has.

I have NEVER sent anyone to hell. Your evil god has.

See "Mostly Harmful" and "Beyond the Crusades" by Paulkovich for some of the bloodierr moments in church history.

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XJC's avatar
10hEdited

"It was everything you’ve come to expect from a group of elderly men who have never had (heterosexual) sex, much less understand the nuances of sex and gender, but pretend to be experts anyway."

Jesus, Inc. (NYSE: JEEZ) board of directors.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

If I remember my sociology degree from a few years ago, gender theory is simply the study of gender in various societies. Is this just another case of conservatives defining terms in a way that they prefer? Like "woke".

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Maltnothops's avatar

Yes. Like “murder”. Or, my favorite, “legalized murder”. You know, like a married bachelor.

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Sarah Longstaff's avatar

So what are European Catholics doing? Most of them don't take their religion literally. It's more of a cultural thing. And after the Savita Halappanavar (know her name) debacle in Ireland, I can't even imagine Irish hospitals following this advice. Only in America do idiots consider Christianity "literal truth."

I had both my kids in a Catholic hospital because that's whose operating room my OB used. When she gave me a tubal ligation she said "oh, here we just call it 'uterine isolation.'" This was 2005, when I had not yet been made aware of Christian literalism. What a pity they couldn't have remained in the shadows.

Hemant, this needs to be the Christianity's new slogan: "An organized crime syndicate best known for harboring predators and covering up child sexual abuse."

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

My very catholic churchgoing great grandmother said "Fuck it" to control of women bodies about a century ago. Her first daughter was born, out of wedlock, in 1928. She also aborted 8 pregnancies out of 17, and lived to tell the tale to her daughters and granddaughters.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Sounds as though you have some neat women in your family tree ... including the current generation, if I may say so!

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dammit barry's avatar

I admire your family.

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larry parker's avatar

AOCSBKFHPCUCSA. Just rolls off the tongue. : )

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