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๐ผ ๐‘“๐‘’๐‘Ž๐‘Ÿ ๐‘กโ„Ž๐‘Ž๐‘ก ๐‘กโ„Ž๐‘–๐‘  ๐‘™๐‘Ž๐‘ค๐‘ ๐‘ข๐‘–๐‘ก ๐‘š๐‘–๐‘”โ„Ž๐‘ก โ„Ž๐‘–๐‘›๐‘‘๐‘’๐‘Ÿ ๐‘ ๐‘ข๐‘๐‘๐‘œ๐‘Ÿ๐‘ก๐‘’๐‘Ÿ๐‘  ๐‘œ๐‘“ ๐‘ ๐‘’๐‘๐‘ข๐‘™๐‘Ž๐‘Ÿ ๐‘๐‘Ž๐‘ข๐‘ ๐‘’๐‘  ๐‘“๐‘Ÿ๐‘œ๐‘š ๐‘™๐‘’๐‘Ž๐‘ฃ๐‘–๐‘›๐‘” ๐‘š๐‘œ๐‘›๐‘’๐‘ฆโ€”๐‘’๐‘ ๐‘๐‘’๐‘๐‘–๐‘Ž๐‘™๐‘™๐‘ฆ ๐‘ ๐‘–๐‘”๐‘›๐‘–๐‘“๐‘–๐‘๐‘Ž๐‘›๐‘ก ๐‘Ž๐‘š๐‘œ๐‘ข๐‘›๐‘ก๐‘  ๐‘œ๐‘“ ๐‘š๐‘œ๐‘›๐‘’๐‘ฆโ€”๐‘ก๐‘œ ๐‘Ž๐‘กโ„Ž๐‘’๐‘–๐‘ ๐‘ก ๐‘œ๐‘Ÿ๐‘”๐‘Ž๐‘›๐‘–๐‘ง๐‘Ž๐‘ก๐‘–๐‘œ๐‘›๐‘  ๐‘œ๐‘ข๐‘ก ๐‘œ๐‘“ ๐‘“๐‘’๐‘Ž๐‘Ÿ ๐‘กโ„Ž๐‘Ž๐‘ก ๐‘กโ„Ž๐‘’๐‘ฆ ๐‘‘๐‘–๐‘‘๐‘›โ€™๐‘ก ๐‘‘๐‘œ๐‘ก ๐‘’๐‘ฃ๐‘’๐‘Ÿ๐‘ฆ ๐‘– ๐‘œ๐‘Ÿ ๐‘๐‘Ÿ๐‘œ๐‘ ๐‘  ๐‘’๐‘ฃ๐‘’๐‘Ÿ๐‘ฆ ๐‘ก...

People are stupid. This should not warn people off AA or FFRF, it should warn people off of making last-minute unnotarized changes to their estate. It should warn older people to choose neutral professionals to administer their affairs rather than relatives with 'skin in' the will or trust. The two nonprofits are at odds here not because of anything they did wrong, but because of what either Pelley Sr. or Jr. did.

Having said that, the two organizations could certainly work with each other to find some manageable compromise which isn't so antagonistic. How about they take the disputed money and jointly fund some student scholarships or research grants with it, or something like that. Instead of wasting lawyers fees on 'its mine to do with what I want'/'its yours to do with what you want', find something you both want and agree to spend it on that. And throw the $50k in legal fees that would've been spent fighting the court case into the schlarship fund, too.

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Yeah, never choose someone who expects to get some or all of your money to be the one to distribute it fairly after you pass away. I'm the executor of my sister's will, but I don't want anything from her or her husband so I can be fair and just follow her wishes.

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Yes, this is a lesson in making sure you have an attorney involved in making changes to your estate plan. A few hundred to an attorney to do a proper trust amendment would have prevented all of this mess.

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In addition to the atheist infighting, suing Planned Parenthood at this time leaves a particularly sour note in my mouth. If thereโ€™s any organization that is dealing with some very serious attacks by Christian nationalists right now it would be the organization who provides reproductive healthcare after Roe was overturned with Dobbs. The very idea that Planned Parenthood has to fight an *atheist* organization trying to take money away from them is extremely disappointing.

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Yep. They won't be getting any of my money or respect now.

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This is unfortunate, to put it simply. Personally, I'd rather not see the kind of infighting between atheist organizations that this circumstance is apparently causing. What we SHOULD be putting our attention on are things like Louisiana and Oklahoma and their recent attempts to insert the 10 Commandments and the Bible into school classrooms. Those are serious considerations that impact not just education but the status of State / Church separation in the United States.

The fact is, though, that we're stuck with this mess. I hope that the wrangling and arguments can be kept to a minimum and the issue of who gets what can be resolved quickly and with as little contention between the involved parties as possible.

But then, how often do I get my wish these days? ๐Ÿ˜

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AA sent out this morning a 'look at the mean FFRF is doing to us' e-mail. I got it due to their unethical use of only sky memberships to automatically sign us up for their newsletter.

This is going to get ugly.

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I got the same email ... and yeah, this ain't gonna be pretty.

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I'm not sure FFRF's actions are in the best interest of the country, but I understand why they feel compelled to fight for the money. It sounds like they are actually only suing the trustee, who is the original bad guy here due to lack of transparency, but are legally required to include AA and PP in the suit.

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That's unfortunate. I vaguely remember the murders but I think I assumed they'd dissolved years ago. I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention (I was in high school) but this situation makes me sad.

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Went and checked my email... I got it too.

Let's all fight over free money that we wouldn't otherwise have had. And spend it all on legal fees so no one but the lawyers end up with any of it.

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Got it. Unsubscribed without reading. Let's see if it sticks.

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I blocked them.

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As unfortunate as it is, disputes over conflicting wills aren't unusual. Keeping the wrangling a d arguments to a minimum would definitely help with image issues, showing the general public that atheists are generally decent people. But, there are people involved, so there is no guarantee.

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I hear ya. I've been wishing Trump would drop dead of a heart attack or something since 2016.

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โค๏ธCholesterol, democracy's only hope. go team" hamberder"

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The danger to democracy isn't really Trump, it's the people who want to put him in the WH. Any other Republican will do for their dictator. Though the 'court' intrigue figuring out which one could be entertaining from another country.

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But knock Trump out of the running, and disrupt the game plan. They'll have to scramble to find a new nominee who can howl and bellow like a baboon to rally the MAGAts like he did.

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They have Marjorie.

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You had to burst my bubble! Oh well, it's not like the Orange Turd is gonna kick off any time soon anyway. We couldn't be that lucky.

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Women are not people.

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Yeah, but now the democrats are scrambling like that for Biden since that last debate. MSN had 4 separately written articles about who should replace Biden. It would almost be funny. All Trump would have to do at this point is shut up and let the DNC eat their own. Luckily, shutting up isnโ€™t really in Trumpโ€™s repertoire.

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depressionโ€ฆheavy sigh

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Yes, and no. The fact the the Orange Ogre was a (so-called) reality Tv star locks him in to the ignorant, younger people who normally couldn't be bothered to vote. Many will return to under their rocks, if he is removed from the picture, no other republican candidate commands their attention like he does. They aren't loyal to republicans, but to him in a messianic kind of way.

The evil libertarians, and scared older non-intellectual voters who gulp Fox (so-called ) News propaganda, are voters who don't keep up with society, and will always vote republican. As will the authoritarian types, and the Theocratic voters.

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With extra grease!

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Rancid grease, I hope!

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"Le gras, c'est la vie" (Karadoc, Kaamelott).

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I dunno, the last two burgers I got at McDonald's were dry.

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That would be welcome, but a stroke that leaves that SOB unable to move or speak for the rest of a very long life would be better.

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I'm afraid they would just use him as a puppet, a la "Weekend at Bernies".

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Wouldn't put it past them. Woodrow Wilsons wife did the same thing when he stroked out. In a way she was our first female President.

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Or John Gill in Patterns of Force. Oi. And the MAGAts probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

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Iโ€™d be happy with that.

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Oh goodie, just what we needed- to be at each others' throats when the fate of fucking democracy is at stake.

The theocrats must be laughing their asses off.

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It sounds like SCOTUS is doing its part to destroy the U.S.

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I am just so fucking done with humanity this week- today's giant flush of SCROTUS fuckery is just the diarrhea icing on the shit-sundae.

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'Indeed, that is what at least five of them were put there to do.

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AA playing the victim here is not endearing me to their cause. Of course, neither is the fact that they took my onlysky email and auto signed me up for their newsletter when OS imploded due to extreme mismanagement.

AA decided to take this public and try to smear FFRF, rather than keep it quiet and let it be settled by the court as to how the money has been distributed and should have been distributed. That will accomplish nothing as far as the money is concerned for AA. It's just petty.

Though my 'estate' is unlikely to amount to much (unless jackpot), I had my lawyer brother write up my will, though I still need to finish the niceties and now that I have a second nephew as of a couple of weeks ago, I should update it and get it notarized. (I had it drawn up before open heart surgery a few years ago.)

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Dibs on the jet (if jackpot).

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Can I hitch a ride? I have my own towel.

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Well arenโ€™t you a hoopy little frood.

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I have a trust, a will, an advanced directive and my cremation is paid for. I donโ€™t want my kids to have to do much except enjoy whatโ€™s left. If they fight over anything I swear Iโ€™m going zombie and coming after them.

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Luckily, can resolve this issue quickly. I have this cocktail napkin that says I get all the money.

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Lol, I used to say that as long as itโ€™s signed and dated itโ€™s legit

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Apparently, if it's all hand written by you and signed, that is all it takes for a holographic will in Texas. If you type it, you've got to have 2 non-family, non-beneficiaries witness and sign, but if you hand write it (nothing not in your handwriting) no witness needed. But no electronic wills. Even though a cryptographic signature is easier and surer to verify *and* guarantees no changes have been made to the document without invalidating the signature. (Literally, adding a space invalidates the signature)

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Interestingly, Electronic wills are not legal in California or New York, but are in Washington state.

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Oh, boy! I get to write I ANAL....

I am not a lawyer. I got an email this morning from an atheist group about this very situation. But a handwritten will in California, known as a holographic will, if properly executed, supersedes a previous will. I know this because we had to execute one holographic will last year each because our previous Wills and trusts were completely out of date. Of course it's all my fault that we have not yet gotten our wills and trusts updated, because a tree fell in the forest and das husband wasn't there to hear it. Or it could be simply that he failed to follow my sage advice and spend the money to get it done properly.

So, it could well be that the donors wishes were represented in the later piece of paper and that it would be valid. Although I ANAL, I don't have a clue about Arizona law. So I ANAL AAL. Regardless, I want to slap both organizations. Come to an agreement, split the money, and be glad that you have it. Don't piss away valuable resources just so you can have a pissing match.

The only people that are happy about this Are the lawyers. And as UncleWill observed, ANAL, Also Not a Lawyer...

Let's kill all the lawyers.

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"Also Not a Lawyer..."

Sounds like something a lawyer would say.

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Like anything, there are some good lawyers out there. Even some outstanding ones. But also many with zero ethics. And some with zero competence.

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Yes, absolutely, I know. I really wasn't generalizing to all lawyers. But I also don't want to get into a lengthy discussion about how the law involves power, so being a lawyer also involves power, which opens up the practice of law to corruption, at least in the moral sense, if not the legal sense.

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Alina Habba comes to mind.

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And the inept Aileen Canon, and pretty much every lawyer trumplethinskin has ever not paid.

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Sydney Powell

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Iโ€™m not a lawyer, but I play one on tv.

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My brother is a lawyer.

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I used to live in California and youโ€™re correct about holographic wills. I looked up Arizonaโ€™s law and they too recognize holographic wills.

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A holographic will was the main plot of the first season of ๐˜‰๐˜ฐ๐˜ด๐˜ค๐˜ฉ ๐˜“๐˜ฆ๐˜จ๐˜ข๐˜ค๐˜บ.

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This isn't an unusual situation after someone dies, and it doesn't reflect poorly on any of the beneficiaries of the trust to seek clarification from the court. The fact that the note allegedly amending the trust doesn't reference the trust is problematic in making the case that this is, in fact, a change to the trust and not simply something the donor thought about doing but didn't implement.

Anyone who's thinking about estate planning and setting up a trust would be well advised to work through a lawyer. Once a trust is set up, it's simple matter to call the lawyer and have it changed instead of leaving behind an ambiguous situation like this.

I hope this gets resolved quickly, but now that the court is involved, probably not likely.

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I've spent the last 4.5 years, and not done yet, fighting to preserve my mother's wishes regarding her estate. This makes me literally ill. The real literally, not the "I mean figurative but I'm going to say literal".

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10% increase for the trustee is a little fishy.

AAA has an office in a stripmall somewhere in Georgia.

Their president seems to be a new age woo woo atheist.

They have the tag line โ€œHelp us help people!โ€ that is close to George Constanza's Human Fund tag line of "People Helping People".

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I feel like the important takeaway here is that people should always hire the services a lawyer when doing their estate planning. Even when updating the details of an existing plan. Regardless of how minor those changes might seem at the time. I feel like a lawyer would have made sure the updated document in 2018 got notarized and the appropriate people were fully aware of the changes it implemented.

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It sounds to me like the son got him to write up something to his benefit, that was not really supposed to supersede.

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What I find interesting is the fact that no one has commented on the sudden addition of Planned Parenthood among the beneficiaries. Don't get me wrong, I adore PP and think they deserve financial support as much as any atheist organization. But the fact that they were suddenly added and given almost as much as both atheist organizations put together just looks odd to me. I'd certainly have wanted to have a conversation with the donor at the time he made that change to find out what's going on.

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Almost like the dirtbag son added the most leftist organization he could think of, to not look obvious in his fuckery.

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I agree with you. But I expect such problems will always be with us because people are rarely their best selves. We procrastinate, we change our minds, and I expect someone near the end may change their mind often about their estate. So "last minute change without all the paperwork being done correctly" is probably very common, even in cases where there's zero reason to suspect foul play.

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I think there's also a general lack of knowledge about what goes into estate planning. I knew to write out a will before open heart surgery, but it never occurred to me to get it notarized. How many people just use online templates or just let a few family members know their last wishes and never do the 'paperwork' or even know what it entails. More things that should be taught in a money management course in high school.

Edit: A much bigger problem for Ryan Walters to spend his time on, especially considering the state of Oklahoma's economy. Thor only knows how many college students will sign up for credit cards with 25% just for the swag and then use them because their textbooks cost more than their rent.

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OT - How petty can DeNazi get?

๐ƒ๐ž๐’๐š๐ง๐ญ๐ข๐ฌ ๐’๐š๐ฒ๐ฌ ๐‡๐ž ๐‚๐ฎ๐ญ ๐€๐‹๐‹ ๐…๐ฅ๐จ๐ซ๐ข๐๐š ๐€๐ซ๐ญ ๐…๐ฎ๐ง๐๐ข๐ง๐  ๐Ž๐ฏ๐ž๐ซ... ๐’๐ž๐ฑ๐ฎ๐š๐ฅ ๐…๐ž๐ฌ๐ญ๐ข๐ฏ๐š๐ฅ๐ฌ?

Now, two events DeSantis claims were โ€œsexualโ€ have been blamed as the reason he vetoed $32 ๐‘š๐‘–๐‘™๐‘™๐‘–๐‘œ๐‘› ๐‘–๐‘› ๐‘Ž๐‘Ÿ๐‘ก ๐‘”๐‘Ÿ๐‘Ž๐‘›๐‘ก๐‘  ๐‘ ๐‘ก๐‘Ž๐‘ก๐‘’๐‘ค๐‘–๐‘‘๐‘’โ€”funds the state legislature had already approve in Floridaโ€™s budget.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/desantis-says-he-cut-all-florida-art-funding-over-sexual-festivals

"Vetoes included $570,500 for the Tampa Museum of Art and $500,000 for ZooTampa at Lowry Park. The Clearwater Marine Aquarium and Friends of Ybor each expected to receive $500,000 in cultural facilities grants." From the TBT

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Never underestimate someone like his capacity for pettiness. Power corrupts after all.

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Still compensating for getting his ass kicked by the Mouse.

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It's not ๐˜ข๐˜ญ๐˜ญ just pettiness- it's that the arts are, in and of themselves, antithetical to his kind of thinking. Art, by necessity, requires one to think outside the box to observe and comment on the society which birthed it. Fascism is the death of critical thought and introspection; it can't exist in the presence of such things, as its worldview is paper-thin and wouldn't survive the mildest critique, let alone satire. To allow the honest, unfettered practice of art in a fascist state is to sign the death warrant of its ruling power.

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Borrowing a page from drumpster's book ? Any money who doesn't end in his pocket or used for his gratification is wasted.

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KKKons are all hate, all the time.

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Pettier, he's barring cities from putting water quality warnings on beaches.

Edit: It's a little more complicated than I stated. The State Department of Health can't close down a beach.

https://tinyurl.com/mu7jw7fk

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When the first beachgoer or group of beachgoers contract hepatitis after the state removes this safeguard, I hope they sue the living shit out of De Santis personally. There is no good reason for this fuckery except his penchant for public willie-wagging.

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He didn't remove anything, he didn't allow it to be implemented. At least here in the Bay Area, the county health departments handle this.

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DeInsanity believes in YOU living dangerously, not him. Just like the repug pols who love bump stocks, yet never get near public streets.

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It sounds like this lawsuit is necessary for the trust, unfortunate as it is. The organizations should be a little more flexible and less antagonistic toward each other. Hemant makes it sound like AA is escalating the animosity, understandable since they arenโ€™t named in the original trust and will get nothing, but still I think they should pull back a bit on the rhetoric for the sake of PR across the board. Since the issue FFRF has is with the trustee and not AA, AA should not take it personally but rather keep the fighting in the legal arena and not create a public feud.

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Flying the bi colors on the Satanic Temple flag to the left. Excellent! :)

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I should point out that TST reversed the colors. Should be pink/purple/blue. :)

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The flags were printed on both sides, so I likely got the back side. They had a trans pride flag to the left of it which I didn't get in the picture. I was trying to get the main rainbow flag and be sure not to get anyone's face in the picture

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IANAL. However, I have been a senior trust officer for one trust company and a not so senior trust officer for another. All told, about 20 years working with trusts and providing estate planning advice to people both well-to-do and middle class. I wonโ€™t address the substantive questions Hemant raised. But I will dispense advice I gave to hundreds of clients: retain an experienced trusts and estate attorney to prepare your estate documents if your situation has any complexities. Donโ€™t try to save a few bucks on this stuff.

And after you get the documents from the attorney, READ THEM! If something isnโ€™t clear, ask!

I alway read my clientโ€™s estate documents. I wonโ€™t say that mistakes were common but I found a few over the years. The client whose will left money to more than 20 people and institutions, in varying percentages. I added up the percentages and discovered they came to 97%. Spouses often specify which one would be deemed to have died first in the event of simultaneous or simply unknown order of deaths. (Ex: They are on a boat that overturns and both drown. Who drowned first?) Several times I noticed that the wills of both spouses indicated that the other spouse would be deemed to have died first. A sloppy cut and paste job by the lawyers.

And one will was written in such unclear language with sentences that went on forever with subordinate clauses galore that I told the client I really wasnโ€™t sure what the will said. She told me that was her reaction too but as hers was the only will she had ever read, she didnโ€™t know if it was odd or normal.

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Some lawyers โ€“ I hesitate to say this โ€“ are pretty damned unscrupulous when it comes to wills and the like. When my parents died, the lawyer they'd appointed to supervise the distribution of the will wanted my sister and I to put all the money in his trust account. My sister hit the roof at this. Can't really blame her but she should have kept her mouth shut and been a bit more polite. Henceforth the will was in the hands of his least experienced "apprentices" and was taking for ever. The crunch came when they send me something I had to get notarised by another lawyer โ€“ this usually takes about five or 10 minutes and most lawyers do it for free in NZ. So I went to a local office and she took one look at the doodad and spent the next 15 minutes tut tutting and correcting all the mistakes in it. For which she very nicely didn't charge. But that was the last straw, one of my old school friends was a lawyer and he offered to take over the whole process. After that things went very smoothly.

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โ€œwe absolutely worry this kind of litigiousness could discourage donors from participating not only in legacy giving and shared bequests but also in everyday, grassroots campaignsโ€ I understand this. Nothing is uglier in estate planning law than parties bickering over who gets what. Thatโ€™s when peopleโ€™s true colors show up. Accusations fly, lawsuits erupt and the money gets eaten up by attorney fees. Maybe the son is a dirtbag who fucked with the will, maybe dad actually changed his mind. The only organization that stands to lose is PP, if the original will is decided to be the one used. That would be a shame, they need the funds more than ever given the abortion crises going on.

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I vote for the son is a dirtbag. Occam's razor.

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