I wonder if it has ever occurred to any Jehovah's Witness that fellowship and comradery and love can be had without the cruelty that they inflict on those who opt out of their cult. I'm especially intrigued by this, as I just had a pair of JWs at my front door yesterday, who asked me my opinion of the bible. "Fiction," I told them, "and poorly written fiction at that."
Seriously, why would anyone join such an organization, knowing that their support and friendship was conditional on your unmodified agreement with the tenants of their faith? Obviously, THEY DON'T TELL YOU THAT, certainly not up front. What would happen, I wonder, if they were utterly honest about that policy with those who were candidates for conversion? The answer to that one, I suspect, is intuitively obvious.
Mostly, I think the JWs are a 19th- and 20th-century cult which is ill-adapted (if adapted at all) for the 21st century, the internet, and the fact that those doctrines and practices – ALL OF THEM – which they may keep hidden from newbies, are out there for all to see and know about. The two men who met me yesterday I suspect were surprised at my position regarding their belief system. I wonder if they are willing to recognize that more and more people like me are out there, and the chances of their garnering a new convert, especially out of Millennials and Gen-Z folk, aren't just thin.
I know I throw the cult word around to describe religion a lot but one of the distinguishing characteristics of a cult was that the initiate would have to cut off ties with their family because the cult is "their family now". Just because the entire family is already in the cult does not make this cult any less insidious.
Realize that "cult" has only recently been a pejorative term in the dictionaries. It indicates any group of people united behind a cause or charismatic leader--good or bad. I have written a treatise on this, "Cult Bashing 2.0" that is easily found on the internet. Although I wrote this treatise more than ten years ago, more recently I go through the definitional progression deeper on my Substack.
"Cult" is one of my favorite topics to write about.
Ha! Dear archaic religions, please continue to not realize that once you put something on the internet it is there *forever* and it's full of people you have no authority over. I can't wait until the JWs shoot themselves in the foot one too many times, this is an org I can see collapsing within my lifetime. Their refusal to grow as an org combined with their attempts to use new tech will bring more of this. Learn from the Amish, keep 'em down on the farm with no Google.
As a former jw this is just so ridiculous. They say they're the one trie religion therefore they should be proud of all their policies not try to hide them
The secrecy just shows that they know what they are, how people will see them if they know the truth. The men at the top are just trying to keep their power*, not actually do good in the world. The RCC and Mormons also come to mind when it comes to hiding stuff they know will be bad for them, too bad the flock can't see the duplicity for what it is.
There are few punishments as cruel as shunning. Several religious groups practice it, not just the JWs, and that level of cruelty for apostates is a big part of the definition of a CULT. The extremely toxic potential of religion is tragically demonstrated in its ability to overcome one of the strongest instincts humans have, to love and care for one's parents, one's children, and one's siblings.
Members are kept in line by the promise of loving kindness AND the threat of cold, cruel abandonment. There is little difference between the architectures of a fortress and a prison.
I haven't had a JW round the house for quite a long time now, but there was a time when I wished they would shun me. It seemed every other week some idiot came knocking on the door asking to "bless my house". Dragging their bloody kids along with them poor buggers.
I live in an apartment building, so their visits are a thing of the past.
When I was still living at home and they came 'round to the door, I told them I was an atheist. They turned right around and walked away without another word.
I've lived in 2 apartment buildings over a period of the last fourteen years (discounting the 5 years in-between them when I was homeless). Fourteen years and not a single JW or their child has ever come knocking. They all hang around downtown on Pine Street..
It happened only one time even if one of their churches is 5 minutes away on foot (at my speed, so probably 2 for a normal sized human). She ran for her life when I threatened to release my doggesses, one of my best memories ever😁
I haven't seen the Mormon for years! I just thought. I don't think I've seen a Mormon in 20 years or more. Maybe they're not sending to NZ any more? Too far away? I mean there's work for them here, we're a pretty godless lot. We don't have too many home grown ones – actually come to think of it we do, we just don't have VERY many. 😁 They used to be all over the place on bikes – from America, dressed in dark clothes and white shirts and ties. Years ago I found one obviously suffering from dehydration – before all those water bottles were available – and invited him in for a cup of tea. I didn't think they drank tea but he did. I might have saved his life. 😁 I must ask around though, they seem to have disappeared. Although I don't want to jinx it so maybe I'll just keep quiet.
Jesus told people that if they loved their families and/or their own lives more than they loved him, they were not worthy of him.
Jesus was on earth to set people (especially family members) at each other's throats. Prince of Peace? Not according to Jesus himself. He was more of a Prince of Pieces.
Once you're in the "fortress," trying to leave brings very painful consequences, so being there willingly becomes moot. Any religion with extreme consequences for leaving is a prison, even though many inmates like it inside.
Don’t be haughty by shunning people you don’t agree with anymore?
Do these people hear themselves? I mean, they come to our homes to tell us to follow their one and only true religion and if we don’t join we are going to hell. And if someone who decides this isn’t for them they literally throw them out like yesterday’s garbage, never to speak to them again. And then try to say don’t be haughty.
Here’s what I have to say. Mind your own business, stay off my lawn, and quit hiding child molesters and rapists.
Shunning is calculated cruelty designed to keep people in line, and in the fold. Something that can always be justified in the name of Jesus. Religious organizations employ it to let everyone know the price they're going to pay should they dare think for themselves. I can only hope more and more people find the courage to remove themselves from these oppressive environments, find a community if they want one, and make a decent life for themselves.
These are just a few things that makes a religion cross the line into abusive cult:
a.) punishing people who leave.
b.) forcing people to choose between the church and their loved ones, thereby cutting them off from loved ones who might cause them to question doctrine.
c.) Getting you to doubt yourself: your ethics, your morals, your intuition, your empathy.
d.) The organization is authoritarian and demands control of your personal life.
And yes, I am aware that I am also indicting a lot of religious organizations who would insist that they aren't a cult.
In the mid-20th century, several Jehovah's Witnesses brought before the US Supreme Court cases challenging state laws that forced students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, culminating in the 1943 West Virginia v. Barnette decision which has, to this day, protected the right to opt out of that stupid bit of fascist flag fellation.
I mention this only because it is the sole beneficial thing that vile organization has ever managed to accomplish. So... thanks, Witnesses! 𝘕𝘰𝘸 𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘸 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘶𝘤𝘬 𝘶𝘱 and stop being backwards assholes who compel members to shun their loved ones and deny them life-saving medical care.
JWs were also among those specifically targeted by the Nazis during the Holocaust, along with Jews, gypsies, Freemasons, blacks, gay people, the disabled, non-Jewish Slavs/Poles and "asocials" (prostitutes, beggars, drug addicts, alcoholics and pacifists).
The Dansbury Baptists praised Jefferson for his wall of separation because they hated the idea of having to pay "tribute" to the Congregationalists of Connecticut.
Now, Baptists are among other xtian sects trying to tear down that wall. How soon they forget.
They'll soon remember when the Catholics manage to get their way and make them drink wine at church services. 😁 they always seem to forget don't they that "Christian" has about 40,000 meanings.
Religion poisons everything. Period.
Indeed. There is no situation so bad it cannot be made worse by religion.
I wonder if it has ever occurred to any Jehovah's Witness that fellowship and comradery and love can be had without the cruelty that they inflict on those who opt out of their cult. I'm especially intrigued by this, as I just had a pair of JWs at my front door yesterday, who asked me my opinion of the bible. "Fiction," I told them, "and poorly written fiction at that."
Seriously, why would anyone join such an organization, knowing that their support and friendship was conditional on your unmodified agreement with the tenants of their faith? Obviously, THEY DON'T TELL YOU THAT, certainly not up front. What would happen, I wonder, if they were utterly honest about that policy with those who were candidates for conversion? The answer to that one, I suspect, is intuitively obvious.
Mostly, I think the JWs are a 19th- and 20th-century cult which is ill-adapted (if adapted at all) for the 21st century, the internet, and the fact that those doctrines and practices – ALL OF THEM – which they may keep hidden from newbies, are out there for all to see and know about. The two men who met me yesterday I suspect were surprised at my position regarding their belief system. I wonder if they are willing to recognize that more and more people like me are out there, and the chances of their garnering a new convert, especially out of Millennials and Gen-Z folk, aren't just thin.
They're anorexic.
I know I throw the cult word around to describe religion a lot but one of the distinguishing characteristics of a cult was that the initiate would have to cut off ties with their family because the cult is "their family now". Just because the entire family is already in the cult does not make this cult any less insidious.
Realize that "cult" has only recently been a pejorative term in the dictionaries. It indicates any group of people united behind a cause or charismatic leader--good or bad. I have written a treatise on this, "Cult Bashing 2.0" that is easily found on the internet. Although I wrote this treatise more than ten years ago, more recently I go through the definitional progression deeper on my Substack.
"Cult" is one of my favorite topics to write about.
Ha! Dear archaic religions, please continue to not realize that once you put something on the internet it is there *forever* and it's full of people you have no authority over. I can't wait until the JWs shoot themselves in the foot one too many times, this is an org I can see collapsing within my lifetime. Their refusal to grow as an org combined with their attempts to use new tech will bring more of this. Learn from the Amish, keep 'em down on the farm with no Google.
As a former jw this is just so ridiculous. They say they're the one trie religion therefore they should be proud of all their policies not try to hide them
The secrecy just shows that they know what they are, how people will see them if they know the truth. The men at the top are just trying to keep their power*, not actually do good in the world. The RCC and Mormons also come to mind when it comes to hiding stuff they know will be bad for them, too bad the flock can't see the duplicity for what it is.
*allegedly, in my opinion
There are few punishments as cruel as shunning. Several religious groups practice it, not just the JWs, and that level of cruelty for apostates is a big part of the definition of a CULT. The extremely toxic potential of religion is tragically demonstrated in its ability to overcome one of the strongest instincts humans have, to love and care for one's parents, one's children, and one's siblings.
Members are kept in line by the promise of loving kindness AND the threat of cold, cruel abandonment. There is little difference between the architectures of a fortress and a prison.
Shunning is also CHILDISH! "You don't believe the same as we do, so go away, we won't talk to you anymore!"
About as "adult" as a hole in the head.
I haven't had a JW round the house for quite a long time now, but there was a time when I wished they would shun me. It seemed every other week some idiot came knocking on the door asking to "bless my house". Dragging their bloody kids along with them poor buggers.
I live in an apartment building, so their visits are a thing of the past.
When I was still living at home and they came 'round to the door, I told them I was an atheist. They turned right around and walked away without another word.
Living in an apartment building is not a guarantee they won't pester you. I gave Aria and Rhapsodie an extra treat that day 😁
I've lived in 2 apartment buildings over a period of the last fourteen years (discounting the 5 years in-between them when I was homeless). Fourteen years and not a single JW or their child has ever come knocking. They all hang around downtown on Pine Street..
It happened only one time even if one of their churches is 5 minutes away on foot (at my speed, so probably 2 for a normal sized human). She ran for her life when I threatened to release my doggesses, one of my best memories ever😁
What, no Mormons where you live?
I haven't seen the Mormon for years! I just thought. I don't think I've seen a Mormon in 20 years or more. Maybe they're not sending to NZ any more? Too far away? I mean there's work for them here, we're a pretty godless lot. We don't have too many home grown ones – actually come to think of it we do, we just don't have VERY many. 😁 They used to be all over the place on bikes – from America, dressed in dark clothes and white shirts and ties. Years ago I found one obviously suffering from dehydration – before all those water bottles were available – and invited him in for a cup of tea. I didn't think they drank tea but he did. I might have saved his life. 😁 I must ask around though, they seem to have disappeared. Although I don't want to jinx it so maybe I'll just keep quiet.
About as adult as ""you can't play with us anymore" while thumbing noses and sticking out tongues.
Jesus told people that if they loved their families and/or their own lives more than they loved him, they were not worthy of him.
Jesus was on earth to set people (especially family members) at each other's throats. Prince of Peace? Not according to Jesus himself. He was more of a Prince of Pieces.
Terrific "family values," eh? 😝
When he was a kid he told his mother to shut up and listen.
Fathers against sons, daughters against mothers, daughters-in-law against mothers-in-law...
And SATAN is supposed to be the destroyer?!?
The only "family values" they care about are the prices they can sell (or sell 𝘰𝘶𝘵) their daughters for.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/33e00e05adba84fda837420581c73d57874ec1cc3e8b047e5eb71e85bc94f7a4.jpg
Priceless!
The difference is that in a prison, you aren’t there willingly.
Once you're in the "fortress," trying to leave brings very painful consequences, so being there willingly becomes moot. Any religion with extreme consequences for leaving is a prison, even though many inmates like it inside.
𝐸𝐿𝑆𝐴’𝑆 𝑉𝑂𝐼𝐶𝐸𝑂𝑉𝐸𝑅: 𝐼𝑡'𝑠 𝑠𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑎 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑔𝑔𝑙𝑒. 𝐼 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑠 ℎ𝑒𝑟.
This is the one time you don't want to let it go, Elsa.
That's it. You're getting banned.
Given the Mouse's latest, perhaps I should have said "Elsa, be part of our world."
Why am I blocked from liking Larry Parker?
*Groan*
Chill out.
That's cold, even for you 😝
Icy what you did there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySb1f9zWJkQ
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvrZgbXoEg
Let it go. ;)
(Dom used to give that song a frosty reception whenever it was mentioned)
https://images.app.goo.gl/5QvPoHGQFYyURnFx9
Toute ma gratitude à Joan.
"The horror...the horror..."
That looks even grosser than actual Spam.
I swear, I thought it was canned dog food.
Don’t be haughty?
Seriously? Don’t be haughty?
Don’t be haughty by shunning people you don’t agree with anymore?
Do these people hear themselves? I mean, they come to our homes to tell us to follow their one and only true religion and if we don’t join we are going to hell. And if someone who decides this isn’t for them they literally throw them out like yesterday’s garbage, never to speak to them again. And then try to say don’t be haughty.
Here’s what I have to say. Mind your own business, stay off my lawn, and quit hiding child molesters and rapists.
I don't care if a guy is haughty as long as he's a hottie.
Jesus always breaking up families - a homewrecker.
Worst kind of homewrecker, he doesn't even provide any real goodies.
Loaves and fishes????
Pff, I can get those at the store, if Jesus isn't going to put out I'm not interested in letting him threaten my home life.
It's not like he kept that secret: Matthew 10:35
Shunning is calculated cruelty designed to keep people in line, and in the fold. Something that can always be justified in the name of Jesus. Religious organizations employ it to let everyone know the price they're going to pay should they dare think for themselves. I can only hope more and more people find the courage to remove themselves from these oppressive environments, find a community if they want one, and make a decent life for themselves.
So much love I will follow this example and reconnect immediately with my father family 🙄
Uh-huh, SUUUUUUUUUURE you will ... and I gots this real nice theme park in Florida I'd like to sell you, too. CHEAP! 😝
Too bad I am looking for a chalet with view on K2 Mountain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGkirWmBlxE
Time travel https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348966049_164475766595802_3973492809302649983_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_k1aSxw22wUAX8uBSFw&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfAuJBBIe3CVEQsVYbT5rV6LpWT_S4UItCG4xXanQOq0Eg&oe=64746054
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/25/oath-keepers-far-right-stewart-rhodes-sentence
Wow ... unexpected much?
Get wrecked, you family-abusing, puppy-kicking, delusional insurrectionist fuck!
https://i0.wp.com/chicagostylesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Stephen-colbert-celebration-gif.gif
Stewart Rhodes. The latest to grasp what FAFO means.
Well to be fair, I just had to Google it.
So you fucked around and found out what it means, then? (Me too, actually.)
Me three, without you I would have have to pest... Ask NOGODZPEDIA.
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
Was that you chortling in your joy?
These are just a few things that makes a religion cross the line into abusive cult:
a.) punishing people who leave.
b.) forcing people to choose between the church and their loved ones, thereby cutting them off from loved ones who might cause them to question doctrine.
c.) Getting you to doubt yourself: your ethics, your morals, your intuition, your empathy.
d.) The organization is authoritarian and demands control of your personal life.
And yes, I am aware that I am also indicting a lot of religious organizations who would insist that they aren't a cult.
ALL of kkkristerism claims god is within you, judging your every thought, word, deed and dreams
Would a good antiviral work?
I almost don't want to post this
https://www.businessinsider.com/lauren-boebert-son-called-911-report-abuse-husband-jayson-2023-5
More of those nice, sweet "traditional family values" we keep being lectured about.
But it's gay people who are unfit to be parents, right?
I hate the "No visible marks = no abuse"
I fell or bash myself against the furniture often enough and yet it's very rare for me to have bruises.
"The implication is that the other mothers in her congregation will just take the place of her biological mom..."
Oh, yeah, things will absolutely, positively work out like that, because religious people aren't at all selfish or self-involved. Right. Got it.
In the mid-20th century, several Jehovah's Witnesses brought before the US Supreme Court cases challenging state laws that forced students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, culminating in the 1943 West Virginia v. Barnette decision which has, to this day, protected the right to opt out of that stupid bit of fascist flag fellation.
I mention this only because it is the sole beneficial thing that vile organization has ever managed to accomplish. So... thanks, Witnesses! 𝘕𝘰𝘸 𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘸 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘶𝘤𝘬 𝘶𝘱 and stop being backwards assholes who compel members to shun their loved ones and deny them life-saving medical care.
JWs were also among those specifically targeted by the Nazis during the Holocaust, along with Jews, gypsies, Freemasons, blacks, gay people, the disabled, non-Jewish Slavs/Poles and "asocials" (prostitutes, beggars, drug addicts, alcoholics and pacifists).
And yet, that shared trauma is completely forgotten when it comes time to vote on protections for other historically persecuted groups.
Yup.
The Dansbury Baptists praised Jefferson for his wall of separation because they hated the idea of having to pay "tribute" to the Congregationalists of Connecticut.
Now, Baptists are among other xtian sects trying to tear down that wall. How soon they forget.
They'll soon remember when the Catholics manage to get their way and make them drink wine at church services. 😁 they always seem to forget don't they that "Christian" has about 40,000 meanings.
"Religious freedom! Oh wait, we didn't mean THEM!"
Whut other histor'cly persecuted groups? Only us Real Christians git persecuted!