I could ALMOST find it astonishing that people like Moore and those who follow him can call themselves "Christian" with a straight face. But then, I think again about it and I realize that their head honcho was no more consistent than they are. On the one hand, you have: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." At least reasonably positive sentiments, though I have little doubt that Moore would find them "weak." He's probably more about: "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" and "But mine enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them hither and slay them before me.
This has been the ongoing problem with that stupid holy book from the get-go. It very facilely talks out of both sides of its mouth and frequently within a few verses of itself. Put bluntly, the bible is self-contradictory, certainly to anyone who can bother to read it dispassionately (which leaves out most evangelicals, for what I can see). The inevitable result is that believers pick and choose what they like and ignore or disregard what they don't, which only reinforces what I've cited multiple times on FA:
They tend to read it as "do unto others before they do it to you", having no concept that we, the others, have no real interest in doing anything to them.
If Christianity provides the comfort to do unto others before they do it to you, what's wrong with that? Anything that gives believers comfort is good, right?
I'm not sure he's all that inconsistent. The 'with a sword' reference seems pretty obviously a metaphorical reference to "I come to overturn the system." And the "slay them before me" is part of a parable about a rich man who charges his servants to do good work in his absence. The message there is: who work to my purposes will be given more, those who avoid work will get nothing. So again, this is metaphorical. Jesus is not directing any slaying.
His throwing out the money lenders and cursing the fig tree also seem to me like he was just losing his temper.
So IMO we have here a guy who regularly teaches nonviolence, forgiveness, etc. Who uses war *metaphors*. And who sometimes loses his temper and doesn't practice what he preaches. This is not consistent with being a perfect God. But it is consistent with being a pretty regular human aesthetic pacifist who uses colorful metaphors to get his point across and who sometimes doesn't meet his own standards of behavior.
The 'with a sword' reference seems pretty obviously a metaphorical reference to "I come to overturn the system."
The ancient Hebrews expected the messiah to be, quite literally, a warrior, leading the army of Israel in triumph over other nations. Nothing metaphorical about it.
Really ... like when he said, "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire," then turns around and calls the Pharisees, "Ye fools and blind..."
And as far as that "bring them hither" business, yeah, I know it's a parable. Doesn't change the fact that, far as I'm concerned, all it is is a badly disguised THREAT.
Conservative religion and authoritarian government are natural allies, and always have been. It is a symbiotic relationship that has resulted in untold misery for ordinary people. Neither group ever truly believes in democracy and would be only too happy to impose their rule on everyone given the opportunity. Extremist movements are inherently unstable in the long term because the people who make up these groups are unstable. It's one thing to point out the problems facing religion, but with every passing day religion cedes ground it will never recover. Organized religion has survived many things, but it will not survive the internet with its influence intact.
Thing is, if they ever got their way and managed to create an autocracy in the US, it wouldn't be long before there would be a cat fight of epic proportions between the political hacks and the bible-thumpers for the top spot. If people think that Trump and his cronies are ugly now, they have NO IDEA of what a "government" (such as it would be) under such twerps would look like.
Exactly. If the preachers ever attained the secular power they seem to dream of, they would begin killing one another over doctrinal errors within a week. The world would be forced to relearn why church-state separation was such a great idea.
I've made the same comment a few times on the old P/NR and other places. Put these guys in a room together and like cats in a sack, they'd be fighting to the death - I used to say in the timeframe of one hour - not one week! Can you imagine the fragrant Steven Anderson accepting a number 2 position? Or most of the others there neither.
It seems like they, conservative religion and authoritarian government, were created together to support each other. Like minded people got together to see how best to divide the power and came up with this, I’ll be king you be pope and we’ll wash each other’s backs with the blood of the people we rule over.
If one wants to push a positive version of Christianity, one needs to look no further than post-presidency Jimmy Carter or Fred Rogers.
One was a man who was faithful to his wife his entire life and devoted himself entirely to helping the less fortunate. His views weren't always perfect, but he was willing to allow himself to grow and adapt and become better.
The other was a man who spent his life pushing a radical inclusive love towards everybody. Everyone was his neighbor and he made sure that we knew that everyone was also our neighbor and we should treat them with kindness.
There you go, Russell. There's an appealing Christianity. Love everyone. Real love, not hate masquerading as love. Build them a house if they need it. Give them your jacket if they need one. Put your feet in a pool with a Black man at a time when other white people refused to do that. Teach your children to be kind and to love courageously.
Evangelical Christianity was faced with many turning points. When Africans were being enslaved and brought to this land in captivity and misery, they could have stood with the slaves or stood with the slavers. The majority of conservative, bible believing Evangelicals chose to stand with the slavers. When slavery was abolished at the end of a rifle, Evangelicals could have chosen to stand with the Reconstructionists or with the Revanchists. By and large, they chose the Revanchists. They formed the KKK. They lynched and terrorized Black people to keep them subservient. The sick twisted racist regime they made inspired Adolph Hitler.
When the Civil Rights Movement started, they could have chosen the side of their Black brothers and sisters marching for liberty and equality and the full rights they should have as American citizens. They chose, with some exceptions, to remain silent or to condemn the marchers for their disruption, or they grabbed a firehose and baton and attacked them.
When feminism kicked off in force, they could have realized that each woman has the same rights that men do and moved to protect the rights of women. When Stonewall happened, they could have chosen to recognize that ALL men (and women) were made equal and had a right to pursue happiness. They opposed both. They slandered the people calling for equality. When AIDS struck the LGBTQ community, they laughed and mocked the suffering. Yes, some chose to be compassionate and love the sick, but most smugly quoted the bit in Romans about receiving the penalty of one's sins into their bodies.
At every choice, the majority went with prejudice and hate. It has ALWAYS been this way in America. Our majority Christianity is nothing more than a shelter for hate and prejudice and always has been. It is the way that seems right to a man, but leads to suffering, misery, and death. IT is the WIDE road that leads to destruction and many are those who follow it.
You want a better Christianity, as I said, follow the narrow road. Get slandered by everyone going the opposite way as not a "Real" Christian. Get rejected from giving speeches to them. Get fired from Christianity Today for loving others too much. Embrace their persecution and rejection for so they rejected the prophets before you. Cease doing evil, learn to do good by listening to the marginalized and loving them and putting your body between them and the Christians who hate them.
You've heard that "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
Therefore, the road to Heaven is paved with Bad Intentions, and nobody is going to stop the Real True Christians from getting to Heaven by doing ALL the bad intentions!
“We’re all worse off because of white evangelical and conservative Christian beliefs. Not just the Trumpism but the rest of it too.”
The rest of it, the evangelicalism, especially the parts that Moore is on board with, are what gave rise to Trump even being a candidate. You created this monster, Moore, now you must face the consequences of what you have done.
Ha, look at Russel Moore over here, pretending that his version of Christianity was ever anything besides a political movement that promoted sexism, bigotry, and xenophobia.
He can complain all he wants. It all sounds like "Well, look at this, my only weakness -- the consequences of my own actions."
I think extended absences from church due to Covid led a lot of people to realize the preachers need them far more than they ever needed the preachers.
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
-- Christopher Hitchens, "God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything"
"We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid."
OT: Just got an e-mail from the electric company telling me ERCOT (Texas Electric Grid Manager) is asking everyone to voluntarily reduce electricity usage because demand is high. I can almost forgive them for not being ready for state-wide below-freezing conditions (what I'm having trouble forgiving is not doing anything to prevent a repeat), but 100-110F days are the norm for Texas in July and August and it is unforgivable that ERCOT doesn't plan the capacity for these days.
Surprisingly, Texas has a shitload of windfarms in North and Western Texas. Driving to Oklahoma, once I'm out of the Hill Country, there seems to be one every 30 miles.
"For the last decade and a half, Texas has led the nation in wind-powered electricity generation, producing nearly 26 percent of the U.S. wind energy in 2021."
I thought it was because it wasn't connected to the national grid apart and therefore couldn't draw on it in an emergency – from a tiny corner? That tiny corner seems to have been okay in the big freeze AFAIK.
El Paso and surrounding areas are apparently on New Mexico's grid (and therefore the national grid). Which is why Beto had power to try to help his fellow Texans during the freeze, while our *actual* Senator (may he rot on the bone) fled to Cancun. Not D.C. where he might have been able to facilitate federal assistance, but to Mexico for a vacation.
That did cause quite a stir didn't it? Although consensus seemed to be that he would probably be re-elected – no way would that happen in NZ. Well, maybe in Epsom. But they probably wouldn't put up the same candidate if someone did something that stupid.
Well, the wind turbines may or may not be a bit slow (SA is in a wind desert, it hardly blows here most of the time), but the solar panels should be going like gangbusters. Mine are.
Okay, my blood pressure is apparently now excellent, although on this damned medicine I can't take 2 of my favourite drugs – Iibuprofen being one. But no doubt I'll cope. 3 months supply, and at least you don't have to pay the $5 for it any more. Although $19.50 for the damn doctors visit, which would have lasted 30 seconds if he hadn't wanted to chat away as he always does. My mother always wanted me to be a doctor. Now I see why. They get paid for amusing themselves. 😁
My endocrinologist wouldn't let me. It also fights kidney damage from diabetes, so even if I wasn't taking it to lower my blood pressure, I'd be taking it for that.
OT: The Biden administration this week handed the religious loonies a major win. They granted a "religious exemption" to Baylor U.--a conservative Baptist school, if you don't know--for committing sexual harassment against LGBT students. It's just a matter of time before other religious schools use this precedent to demand similar "special rights." I don't know how many times I've said it, but I will keep insisting it's the case: The American government keeps creeping further and further to the right no matter which party is in power. It just happens a bit more slowly under the Democrats, that's all.
Slower gives the fascists more time to build strength. Someone like Trump or DeSantis would issue a blanket exemption, and there'd be a major outcry about it. Letting it happen one school at a time means nobody much notices. Frog in pan of hot water, you know.
And so is creeping fascism. I'm not saying that's the Democrats' agenda (nope), but their agenda IS to keep placating the conservatives. As I commented a few days ago, they're still doing politics as if it was the 1950s, and that just doesn't--and CAN'T--work anymore. It could only work if everyone in the game was playing by the same rules, and the christofascists don't and won't. Every time the Dems make a concession like this one, the far right gets a bit stronger. Step by step, inch by inch...
As I understand it, the problem is that many of these poor buggers' parents will only fund their education at a religious university. I used to say the head in the sand thing a lot but not so much lately. I honestly didn't realise that education was quite such a commodity in the US.
When I started college in the Dark Ages (90), my state (partially tax-funded) university estimated 4 years including room and board at 16k. Two years ago, I checked and the estimate was over $96k, accounting for inflation, nearly 3 times as much. (In 2021 dollars, the 90 cost was 36k)
The old man with the bow tie never had the chance to get his high school diploma. He finally prevailed but had a cardiac arrest when he learned the good new https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqO2Q9MCOPY
I think it's important to recognize something about the current crop of conservative Christians that too often seems to go unaddressed. Simply put, these people have a severe disconnect with reality and as a result, seem to think things like changing abortion laws won't affect them in any way. That is not, as I'm sure most everyone here knows, how it works. Changes to laws - abortion laws or others - affect everyone. Trying to make laws that only have consequences for 'other people' is, at best, a fool's errand; laws either apply to everyone or they're worthless. This is also in my opinion why the US credit rating has been suffering, it could certainly be construed that we don't believe in rule of law anymore.
If your church is seeing its founding leader as 'weak', it's either time to find a new church or fix the problem yourself. Don't come whining to the rest of us for something your people did specifically for the purpose of trying to make the world a more miserable place.
Agreed. And as I've commented in the past, they really need to fight out among themselves the question of who is a "true christian" and who isn't, and stop bleating about it to the rest of us. But I guess asking them to stop whining is a bit like asking trees to stop having sap.
Yep ... there will not only be problems for people who don't want children, but also problems for those who do. They may or may not be unintended consequences, but they're certainly going to be consequences.
I would point out that I went to see my OB/GYN today, and I'm likely to be affected on a personal level even though I stand no chance at all of having children. (Other medical issues I won't take up space with.) I can't tell you how grateful I am that I'm not 22 anymore; I'm likely to be okay without that kind of care, but at 22 I could not have said that.
OT: On the way home, I saw a vehicle with a sticker that said "Raising lions, not sheep" which I would guess sounds great to quite a few of these MAGA Christians. I sort of wondered what would happen to the lions when the sheep ran out. I don't think the analogy was intended to work out that way.
Of course. It's a woman's job to feed a man. His mother, his girlfriend, his wife. She also washes the skidmarks out of his underwear. That's the way God intended it. Eve was a helpmeet (servant) for Adam.
As implied in this article, this is not something new. Back in the 1980's, I had the pleasure of working with a fundamentalist Christian who never missed an opportunity to spout his bigoted world views (hatred of homosexuals, democrats, liberals, science; the proper role of women in America, his love of war and Reagan). On several occasions he was asked if his religious values had more to do with a social and political agenda than with anything spiritual. He didn't see any contradiction and believed it was those asking the question who were blind and ignorant. He just couldn't understand why he was ostracized at work. Funny how some things never seem to change.
Speaking of scams, I just found this in my junk folder: ENJOY!
Dear friend,
I am Kennedy Bricks from a law firm in the UK, and our associate Werner law firm is in Kyiv, Ukraine. Our client, Mr. Vasily Melnikov, the owner of the Medstom company in Russia, was murdered along with his family in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia. The businessman, his wife, and two minor children were stabbed to death in their home on March 23, 2022, and he has had a deposit worth $48 million since July 2019 with a security company. I would like us to work it out for our mutual benefit. If you are interested, indicate so I can give full details.
Yours truly,
Kennedy Bricks
Who knew that Nigerian princes could also be citizens of Ukraine.
Interesting though, the website that promises me various Ukrainian girls – choice of skinny or zaftig – seems to be based in Paris. I have my suspicions there.
You wouldn't make much money trying to sell Ukrainian men to me. I must say though the people they use as allegedly being really keen to marry me have pretty much model looks. Usually swimsuit model looks. One of these days I might do an image search and see where they get them from.
Don't scoff. Lawyers in the UK and Kyiv deal with crimes in Novgorod all the time. They must, because Trump just hired a team of them to defend him in Georgia. He's already gone through all the lawyers in this country.
I’ve been reading a lot about White Christian Nationalism recently - not just in the news but actively seeking out books on the history of it and the ties to the GOP. Anyone who looks objectively at the history of the movement simply can’t be surprised about the infighting we’re seeing from right wing Christians right now. The fact that evangelicals are now explicitly rejecting teachings of Jesus that they don’t think fit their beliefs is incredibly ironic and from my viewpoint as an atheist I would find it hilarious if the repercussions of these beliefs weren’t so dangerous. What all of this comes down to is that I think we’re reaching the natural progression of religious beliefs where it has divorced itself so much from the original beliefs that it is bordering on absurdism.
Jesus (or at least the person who created the 'good Samaritan' story) intentionally used "Samaritan" to make a racial/political point. They were the hated race at that time and place. The quote "𝑖𝑓 ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑘𝑒 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑚𝑎𝑑𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑢𝑛𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒, 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 “𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑠”" could easily have applied to Jesus himself. Or whowever it was who made up that story ~2000 years ago.
Even older, you've got Moses, Ararat, and the golden bull story.
"Preacher says something unpopular. Group responds by keeping the popular and rejecting the preacher" is an old, regularly repeated, occurrence.
“Moore lacks the courage to state the obvious: We’re all worse off because of white evangelical and conservative Christian beliefs. “
I think you’re falling into the trap of assuming other people believe what you do and are just denying it. I expect he truly believes what he says he does and doesn’t think it’s bad. I doubt he looks outside his bubble long enough to notice the harm he does. Or possibly doesn’t care about it since it’s’them’, who knows.
I could ALMOST find it astonishing that people like Moore and those who follow him can call themselves "Christian" with a straight face. But then, I think again about it and I realize that their head honcho was no more consistent than they are. On the one hand, you have: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." At least reasonably positive sentiments, though I have little doubt that Moore would find them "weak." He's probably more about: "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" and "But mine enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them hither and slay them before me.
This has been the ongoing problem with that stupid holy book from the get-go. It very facilely talks out of both sides of its mouth and frequently within a few verses of itself. Put bluntly, the bible is self-contradictory, certainly to anyone who can bother to read it dispassionately (which leaves out most evangelicals, for what I can see). The inevitable result is that believers pick and choose what they like and ignore or disregard what they don't, which only reinforces what I've cited multiple times on FA:
𝐴𝑙𝑙 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑓𝑒𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑎 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛...
-- David Silverman
Because it's not a book, it's a bad anthology.
With many horrible editors who each had agendas of their own.
And all the authors of the 66 'books' are anonymous.
Same group who wrote Naked Came the Stranger?
Got a feeling all those authors were long gone by the time this group of 24 got around to putting out NCtS.
They tend to read it as "do unto others before they do it to you", having no concept that we, the others, have no real interest in doing anything to them.
Oh I don’t know, I can think of a bunch of Christians I’d love to do things to. Some of them would enjoy it while others… not so much. 😁
If Christianity provides the comfort to do unto others before they do it to you, what's wrong with that? Anything that gives believers comfort is good, right?
I'm not sure he's all that inconsistent. The 'with a sword' reference seems pretty obviously a metaphorical reference to "I come to overturn the system." And the "slay them before me" is part of a parable about a rich man who charges his servants to do good work in his absence. The message there is: who work to my purposes will be given more, those who avoid work will get nothing. So again, this is metaphorical. Jesus is not directing any slaying.
His throwing out the money lenders and cursing the fig tree also seem to me like he was just losing his temper.
So IMO we have here a guy who regularly teaches nonviolence, forgiveness, etc. Who uses war *metaphors*. And who sometimes loses his temper and doesn't practice what he preaches. This is not consistent with being a perfect God. But it is consistent with being a pretty regular human aesthetic pacifist who uses colorful metaphors to get his point across and who sometimes doesn't meet his own standards of behavior.
The 'with a sword' reference seems pretty obviously a metaphorical reference to "I come to overturn the system."
The ancient Hebrews expected the messiah to be, quite literally, a warrior, leading the army of Israel in triumph over other nations. Nothing metaphorical about it.
Really ... like when he said, "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire," then turns around and calls the Pharisees, "Ye fools and blind..."
And as far as that "bring them hither" business, yeah, I know it's a parable. Doesn't change the fact that, far as I'm concerned, all it is is a badly disguised THREAT.
Conservative religion and authoritarian government are natural allies, and always have been. It is a symbiotic relationship that has resulted in untold misery for ordinary people. Neither group ever truly believes in democracy and would be only too happy to impose their rule on everyone given the opportunity. Extremist movements are inherently unstable in the long term because the people who make up these groups are unstable. It's one thing to point out the problems facing religion, but with every passing day religion cedes ground it will never recover. Organized religion has survived many things, but it will not survive the internet with its influence intact.
Thing is, if they ever got their way and managed to create an autocracy in the US, it wouldn't be long before there would be a cat fight of epic proportions between the political hacks and the bible-thumpers for the top spot. If people think that Trump and his cronies are ugly now, they have NO IDEA of what a "government" (such as it would be) under such twerps would look like.
Exactly. If the preachers ever attained the secular power they seem to dream of, they would begin killing one another over doctrinal errors within a week. The world would be forced to relearn why church-state separation was such a great idea.
I've made the same comment a few times on the old P/NR and other places. Put these guys in a room together and like cats in a sack, they'd be fighting to the death - I used to say in the timeframe of one hour - not one week! Can you imagine the fragrant Steven Anderson accepting a number 2 position? Or most of the others there neither.
Omg this is so incredibly true
It seems like they, conservative religion and authoritarian government, were created together to support each other. Like minded people got together to see how best to divide the power and came up with this, I’ll be king you be pope and we’ll wash each other’s backs with the blood of the people we rule over.
I know the Catholic Church never met a right-wing dictator they didn't love.
And not just the RCC. Who backed the pogroms of the bloody Tsars? The ROC.
If one wants to push a positive version of Christianity, one needs to look no further than post-presidency Jimmy Carter or Fred Rogers.
One was a man who was faithful to his wife his entire life and devoted himself entirely to helping the less fortunate. His views weren't always perfect, but he was willing to allow himself to grow and adapt and become better.
The other was a man who spent his life pushing a radical inclusive love towards everybody. Everyone was his neighbor and he made sure that we knew that everyone was also our neighbor and we should treat them with kindness.
There you go, Russell. There's an appealing Christianity. Love everyone. Real love, not hate masquerading as love. Build them a house if they need it. Give them your jacket if they need one. Put your feet in a pool with a Black man at a time when other white people refused to do that. Teach your children to be kind and to love courageously.
Evangelical Christianity was faced with many turning points. When Africans were being enslaved and brought to this land in captivity and misery, they could have stood with the slaves or stood with the slavers. The majority of conservative, bible believing Evangelicals chose to stand with the slavers. When slavery was abolished at the end of a rifle, Evangelicals could have chosen to stand with the Reconstructionists or with the Revanchists. By and large, they chose the Revanchists. They formed the KKK. They lynched and terrorized Black people to keep them subservient. The sick twisted racist regime they made inspired Adolph Hitler.
When the Civil Rights Movement started, they could have chosen the side of their Black brothers and sisters marching for liberty and equality and the full rights they should have as American citizens. They chose, with some exceptions, to remain silent or to condemn the marchers for their disruption, or they grabbed a firehose and baton and attacked them.
When feminism kicked off in force, they could have realized that each woman has the same rights that men do and moved to protect the rights of women. When Stonewall happened, they could have chosen to recognize that ALL men (and women) were made equal and had a right to pursue happiness. They opposed both. They slandered the people calling for equality. When AIDS struck the LGBTQ community, they laughed and mocked the suffering. Yes, some chose to be compassionate and love the sick, but most smugly quoted the bit in Romans about receiving the penalty of one's sins into their bodies.
At every choice, the majority went with prejudice and hate. It has ALWAYS been this way in America. Our majority Christianity is nothing more than a shelter for hate and prejudice and always has been. It is the way that seems right to a man, but leads to suffering, misery, and death. IT is the WIDE road that leads to destruction and many are those who follow it.
You want a better Christianity, as I said, follow the narrow road. Get slandered by everyone going the opposite way as not a "Real" Christian. Get rejected from giving speeches to them. Get fired from Christianity Today for loving others too much. Embrace their persecution and rejection for so they rejected the prophets before you. Cease doing evil, learn to do good by listening to the marginalized and loving them and putting your body between them and the Christians who hate them.
Bravo!
Hear-freaking-HEAR!!!
You've heard that "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
Therefore, the road to Heaven is paved with Bad Intentions, and nobody is going to stop the Real True Christians from getting to Heaven by doing ALL the bad intentions!
“We’re all worse off because of white evangelical and conservative Christian beliefs. Not just the Trumpism but the rest of it too.”
The rest of it, the evangelicalism, especially the parts that Moore is on board with, are what gave rise to Trump even being a candidate. You created this monster, Moore, now you must face the consequences of what you have done.
Sorry, facing consequences is anti Christian, why do you hate freedumb???
Consequences are for the 'little people'. You know, the ones they secretly call 'undesirables' that a society can't function without.
Ha, look at Russel Moore over here, pretending that his version of Christianity was ever anything besides a political movement that promoted sexism, bigotry, and xenophobia.
He can complain all he wants. It all sounds like "Well, look at this, my only weakness -- the consequences of my own actions."
The Southern Baptist church was founded as a pro-slavery institution.
Religion, can't live with it, can't live without...nope, can easily live without it.
I think extended absences from church due to Covid led a lot of people to realize the preachers need them far more than they ever needed the preachers.
Religion, can’t live with it, can’t get rid of it. Try as we might, it clings to life, grasping at power, sometimes getting a good hold.
It’s like my back pain, sometimes it’s worse than others but it’s always there and it always sucks.
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
-- Christopher Hitchens, "God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything"
"We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid."
-- Hitch again
Human decency can only flourish in spite of religion.
OT: Just got an e-mail from the electric company telling me ERCOT (Texas Electric Grid Manager) is asking everyone to voluntarily reduce electricity usage because demand is high. I can almost forgive them for not being ready for state-wide below-freezing conditions (what I'm having trouble forgiving is not doing anything to prevent a repeat), but 100-110F days are the norm for Texas in July and August and it is unforgivable that ERCOT doesn't plan the capacity for these days.
They're too busy fighting the climate change hoax.
Surprisingly, Texas has a shitload of windfarms in North and Western Texas. Driving to Oklahoma, once I'm out of the Hill Country, there seems to be one every 30 miles.
Than what's the problem with the power grid? Any idea? Or it is just some combination of corruption and incompetence (aka Republicanism)?
Probably, the latter.
https://windexchange.energy.gov/states/tx
"For the last decade and a half, Texas has led the nation in wind-powered electricity generation, producing nearly 26 percent of the U.S. wind energy in 2021."
https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2022/sep/energy.php (Texas government site, so take with a grain of salt)
I thought it was because it wasn't connected to the national grid apart and therefore couldn't draw on it in an emergency – from a tiny corner? That tiny corner seems to have been okay in the big freeze AFAIK.
El Paso and surrounding areas are apparently on New Mexico's grid (and therefore the national grid). Which is why Beto had power to try to help his fellow Texans during the freeze, while our *actual* Senator (may he rot on the bone) fled to Cancun. Not D.C. where he might have been able to facilitate federal assistance, but to Mexico for a vacation.
That did cause quite a stir didn't it? Although consensus seemed to be that he would probably be re-elected – no way would that happen in NZ. Well, maybe in Epsom. But they probably wouldn't put up the same candidate if someone did something that stupid.
Must be the cowboys.
https://y.yarn.co/687da302-40fc-4260-8a98-fe2ffe58dc34_text.gif
It's because of all those darn solar panels and wind turbines. /s
Well, the wind turbines may or may not be a bit slow (SA is in a wind desert, it hardly blows here most of the time), but the solar panels should be going like gangbusters. Mine are.
Okay, my blood pressure is apparently now excellent, although on this damned medicine I can't take 2 of my favourite drugs – Iibuprofen being one. But no doubt I'll cope. 3 months supply, and at least you don't have to pay the $5 for it any more. Although $19.50 for the damn doctors visit, which would have lasted 30 seconds if he hadn't wanted to chat away as he always does. My mother always wanted me to be a doctor. Now I see why. They get paid for amusing themselves. 😁
You could skip the meds if you quit reading FA. : )
My endocrinologist wouldn't let me. It also fights kidney damage from diabetes, so even if I wasn't taking it to lower my blood pressure, I'd be taking it for that.
I am not a doctor although sometimes I play one on the internet. : )
You taking Hydrochlorothiazide for your BP? Guess that explains the "No Ibuprofen."
Dunno... it's trade name is amlodipine :) There was a long, illustrated explanation involving kidneys.
I'm on in, although I'm going to see if my doctor will let me get off of it. I've never heard anything about no ibuprofen.
OT: The Biden administration this week handed the religious loonies a major win. They granted a "religious exemption" to Baylor U.--a conservative Baptist school, if you don't know--for committing sexual harassment against LGBT students. It's just a matter of time before other religious schools use this precedent to demand similar "special rights." I don't know how many times I've said it, but I will keep insisting it's the case: The American government keeps creeping further and further to the right no matter which party is in power. It just happens a bit more slowly under the Democrats, that's all.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2023/08/15/baylor-lgtbq-sexual-harassment-exemption/
Slower is better. Not much, but better.
Even Democrats consider Christian privilege more import than LGBT people.
Now at least those students can go to a school that will actually appreciate them. Any LGBT student at a religious school has their head in the sand.
(Edited for more commentary)
Slower gives the fascists more time to build strength. Someone like Trump or DeSantis would issue a blanket exemption, and there'd be a major outcry about it. Letting it happen one school at a time means nobody much notices. Frog in pan of hot water, you know.
As a gay man in Texas, I often suspect I'm that frog.
We're all amphibians here. 🐊 You just have to be more careful of the razor wire than the rest of us. 😉
That's a mighty feeble argument, though. If blacks don't like stores with "Whites Only" drinking fountains, they can go to different stores.
Not disagreeing with you, but as long as 'religious freedom' is allowed to exempt people from human rights laws, it is reality.
And so is creeping fascism. I'm not saying that's the Democrats' agenda (nope), but their agenda IS to keep placating the conservatives. As I commented a few days ago, they're still doing politics as if it was the 1950s, and that just doesn't--and CAN'T--work anymore. It could only work if everyone in the game was playing by the same rules, and the christofascists don't and won't. Every time the Dems make a concession like this one, the far right gets a bit stronger. Step by step, inch by inch...
As I understand it, the problem is that many of these poor buggers' parents will only fund their education at a religious university. I used to say the head in the sand thing a lot but not so much lately. I honestly didn't realise that education was quite such a commodity in the US.
When I started college in the Dark Ages (90), my state (partially tax-funded) university estimated 4 years including room and board at 16k. Two years ago, I checked and the estimate was over $96k, accounting for inflation, nearly 3 times as much. (In 2021 dollars, the 90 cost was 36k)
You didn't start college till you were 90? Wow, just wow. 🤪
The old man with the bow tie never had the chance to get his high school diploma. He finally prevailed but had a cardiac arrest when he learned the good new https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqO2Q9MCOPY
All those jokes about GOP Jesus....
Turns out they weren't jokes.
Or maybe that they were (and still are) jokes, just that they're not funny.
𝔊𝔬𝔰𝔭𝔢𝔩 𝔬𝔣 𝔖𝔲𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔶 𝔖𝔦𝔡𝔢 𝔍𝔢𝔰𝔲𝔰
https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2003/09/the-gospel-of-supply-side-jesus.aspx
If I may?
I think it's important to recognize something about the current crop of conservative Christians that too often seems to go unaddressed. Simply put, these people have a severe disconnect with reality and as a result, seem to think things like changing abortion laws won't affect them in any way. That is not, as I'm sure most everyone here knows, how it works. Changes to laws - abortion laws or others - affect everyone. Trying to make laws that only have consequences for 'other people' is, at best, a fool's errand; laws either apply to everyone or they're worthless. This is also in my opinion why the US credit rating has been suffering, it could certainly be construed that we don't believe in rule of law anymore.
If your church is seeing its founding leader as 'weak', it's either time to find a new church or fix the problem yourself. Don't come whining to the rest of us for something your people did specifically for the purpose of trying to make the world a more miserable place.
Agreed. And as I've commented in the past, they really need to fight out among themselves the question of who is a "true christian" and who isn't, and stop bleating about it to the rest of us. But I guess asking them to stop whining is a bit like asking trees to stop having sap.
Yep ... there will not only be problems for people who don't want children, but also problems for those who do. They may or may not be unintended consequences, but they're certainly going to be consequences.
https://www.ama-assn.org/medical-students/preparing-residency/after-dobbs-m4s-face-stark-reality-when-applying-residency
I would point out that I went to see my OB/GYN today, and I'm likely to be affected on a personal level even though I stand no chance at all of having children. (Other medical issues I won't take up space with.) I can't tell you how grateful I am that I'm not 22 anymore; I'm likely to be okay without that kind of care, but at 22 I could not have said that.
OT: On the way home, I saw a vehicle with a sticker that said "Raising lions, not sheep" which I would guess sounds great to quite a few of these MAGA Christians. I sort of wondered what would happen to the lions when the sheep ran out. I don't think the analogy was intended to work out that way.
So they raise lazy males who would let females hunt for them ? 🤔
Of course. It's a woman's job to feed a man. His mother, his girlfriend, his wife. She also washes the skidmarks out of his underwear. That's the way God intended it. Eve was a helpmeet (servant) for Adam.
As implied in this article, this is not something new. Back in the 1980's, I had the pleasure of working with a fundamentalist Christian who never missed an opportunity to spout his bigoted world views (hatred of homosexuals, democrats, liberals, science; the proper role of women in America, his love of war and Reagan). On several occasions he was asked if his religious values had more to do with a social and political agenda than with anything spiritual. He didn't see any contradiction and believed it was those asking the question who were blind and ignorant. He just couldn't understand why he was ostracized at work. Funny how some things never seem to change.
Speaking of scams, I just found this in my junk folder: ENJOY!
Dear friend,
I am Kennedy Bricks from a law firm in the UK, and our associate Werner law firm is in Kyiv, Ukraine. Our client, Mr. Vasily Melnikov, the owner of the Medstom company in Russia, was murdered along with his family in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia. The businessman, his wife, and two minor children were stabbed to death in their home on March 23, 2022, and he has had a deposit worth $48 million since July 2019 with a security company. I would like us to work it out for our mutual benefit. If you are interested, indicate so I can give full details.
Yours truly,
Kennedy Bricks
Who knew that Nigerian princes could also be citizens of Ukraine.
Nigerian price story was at least consensual use of someone else's money. This, even if it were legit, would be straight up stealing.
Credit where credit is due. At least they're being honest about stealing.
Interesting though, the website that promises me various Ukrainian girls – choice of skinny or zaftig – seems to be based in Paris. I have my suspicions there.
I don't know what could possibly be suspicious about that.
I suspect you're right.
As I said last time I would propose Ukrainian men 😁
Plus I don't live in Paris (even if I can see the Eiffel Tower when the weather allows it).
You wouldn't make much money trying to sell Ukrainian men to me. I must say though the people they use as allegedly being really keen to marry me have pretty much model looks. Usually swimsuit model looks. One of these days I might do an image search and see where they get them from.
Who said I would sell to straight men ? 😁
https://youtu.be/HbX87g7wzJI
https://youtu.be/x1BpKIb7Ces
I am a Heathen, I prefer Jimmy Cliff's version (Rasta Rockett).
Did that file originate from Slidell, LA? The home of Michael Neu, the very white 67-year-old Nigerian prince?
Mr. Kennedy Briggs – got a love that name – is from the UK.
Don't scoff. Lawyers in the UK and Kyiv deal with crimes in Novgorod all the time. They must, because Trump just hired a team of them to defend him in Georgia. He's already gone through all the lawyers in this country.
American lawyers want money. Trump don't do that.
I’ve been reading a lot about White Christian Nationalism recently - not just in the news but actively seeking out books on the history of it and the ties to the GOP. Anyone who looks objectively at the history of the movement simply can’t be surprised about the infighting we’re seeing from right wing Christians right now. The fact that evangelicals are now explicitly rejecting teachings of Jesus that they don’t think fit their beliefs is incredibly ironic and from my viewpoint as an atheist I would find it hilarious if the repercussions of these beliefs weren’t so dangerous. What all of this comes down to is that I think we’re reaching the natural progression of religious beliefs where it has divorced itself so much from the original beliefs that it is bordering on absurdism.
Jesus (or at least the person who created the 'good Samaritan' story) intentionally used "Samaritan" to make a racial/political point. They were the hated race at that time and place. The quote "𝑖𝑓 ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑘𝑒 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑚𝑎𝑑𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑢𝑛𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒, 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 “𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑠”" could easily have applied to Jesus himself. Or whowever it was who made up that story ~2000 years ago.
Even older, you've got Moses, Ararat, and the golden bull story.
"Preacher says something unpopular. Group responds by keeping the popular and rejecting the preacher" is an old, regularly repeated, occurrence.
Interesting: I was reading your comment and watched as it updated itself in real-time. Substack apparently is getting its act together!
“Moore lacks the courage to state the obvious: We’re all worse off because of white evangelical and conservative Christian beliefs. “
I think you’re falling into the trap of assuming other people believe what you do and are just denying it. I expect he truly believes what he says he does and doesn’t think it’s bad. I doubt he looks outside his bubble long enough to notice the harm he does. Or possibly doesn’t care about it since it’s’them’, who knows.