This should be absurdly unconstitutional on the face of it, but with our new and improved hard right Christo-fascist Supreme Court, who knows. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars.
"Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars."
I grew up in a fundie christian household and spent a significant part of my young adulthood around these creeps.
They. Will. Not. Stop. Trust me on this.
I could plainly see their desire to rule the world and punish "moral failing" (i.e., "sexsin" when no kiddos were within earshot) with prison time, even when I was brainwashed enough to think that was a good thing. I heard a teacher in our congregation lauded for leading prayer in her classroom in defiance of the law as she boasted about (and this is a direct quote) "sneaking a little religion on them" with a chuckle (predicably, in our uber-conservative rural school district, she was never sued or even reprimanded). I can't even count the number of times I heard the phrase "all this so-called mental illness is the direct result of SIN in the world" thundered from a pulpit, even as I struggled with what I did not know then was a form of clinical depression.
Every battle they win now just whets their appetite for more power.
They won't stop at just marking territory. They won't stop until they fucking own it and control it.
They won't stop at exerting control over tax-funded agencies like schools. They won't stop until they fucking run every school in the country on our dime.
They won't stop at just siphoning off tax dollars here and there for religious enterprises (they've already been doing that since at least the Bush I and Bush II regimes). They won't stop until our tax dollars are paid directly to them instead of the IRS. Tithing, taxes...there will be no difference.
They will not stop. They must BE stopped. But I despair of ever seeing that happen.
Thing is, they are being stopped all the time. They're being stopped by the Freedom From Religion Foundation and American Atheists and the American Humanist Association, never mind the ACLU and other organizations who value the separation of state and church. I literally just finished reading my monthly copy of Freethought Today (from the FFRF), and every issue I've ever seen reports victories over prayer in schools or removal of 10 commandment displays or city councils ceasing religious invocations at meetings. Yeah, sometimes it feels like playing Whack-A-Mole, but the fight is on.
I'd love to see it. Fact is, though, excising religion entirely from any culture would be one hell of a trick. What I hope to see at some point, though, is the reduction of religion's influence on society, to the eventual point where, while it will still be around, its relevance and influence are badly compromised.
That's one hell of a job to do, and the organizations I mentioned above are well-engaged in that fight. I should mention, too, that I'm a member of FFRF and have worked with them on more than one occasion to keep that wall up. Wishful thinking won't get this business done. Hard work at least has a chance.
Encouraging. But people -- good people, dedicated people -- have fought and fought and fought these jackals and Roe is still gone. Trans and LGBTQ people are in more danger of proudly unapologetic physical violence than they've been in a long time. And we're still stuck with a SCOTUS from hell and far-right judiciary all over the country throwing up roadblocks to justice and compassion and human decency at every turn.
Fundies are stupidly proud of their ignorance, but they are also dangerous as hell. They are fueled by a wild-eyed zealotry and fanaticism the likes of which I have never seen equaled anywhere else, and which the leaders keep stoked to a fever pitch with variations on Two Minute Hates sprinkled liberally in messages to their flocks. (For a secular version of this, see any Trump rally).
The parishioner numbers are slowly dropping. At some point in the future, perhaps the churches will lose their power as their old base dies off and isn't replaced by "new blood."
Trust me. They won't just passively allow that power to escape them due to dwindling numbers. They will actively seek or build ways to ensure their minority rule and codify their cruelty into law. That's why they have been infiltrating the public sphere for decades. I know these people. I know how they think. Please don't underestimate the cray-cray. They are dangerous.
What do you think is the purpose of schools like the New Covenant christian elementary school in Nashville and the many others across the nation. What is the purpose of the christian colleges like Liberty Univ and Bob Jones Univ? They are looking to keep that supply line full at all times with new christians.
The chaplains do not need to be licensed, will they be subject to background checks? And will the background checks be thorough enough to catch the preachers and pastor’s whoa have groomed entire congregations while molesting the children in their care? You know, the ones who admit on stage in church to the entire congregation that they had a sexual relationship with a minor and get standing ovations rather than handcuffs. The ones who have convinced all the adults who ought to be protecting their children that the sexual advances are just god’s love so they don’t end up charged with statutory rape. Maybe the ones who married the, technically legal with parental permission, child when she became pregnant, should not be in schools with unfettered and unmonitored access to underage children.
That’s only one red flag I see that Hemant didn’t bring up in the article.
Perhaps he might address that in another post; it's certainly important enough to warrant a post all its own, exploring this issue. Thoughts, Hemant? I would certainly be interested.
It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for citizens to pool some money to hire a professional to do the background checks the state has failed to provide.
Not outside the realm of possibility, but highly unlikely. Especially in underserved areas and urban schools with little tax base. Parents already have to spend so much money on their kids’ education, there’s very little left to fund a background check on the creepy preacher stuffed into the school. And non parents don’t bother questioning what is happening in schools -unless the GOP tells them there are littler boxes and drag queens everywhere.
The school has a duty to vet every person who works and volunteers at the school, but oftentimes it isn’t enough. Like I said, the checks need to be able to find the preachers who haven’t been through the legal system for these types of crimes, because they rarely go to the legal system.
This will be a disaster for LGBT students. Which these asshole likely consider a feature. I'd like to know how an untrained chaplain is supposed to help kids "navigate complex emotions", especially better than a trained psychologist.
I'm pretty sure it varies by school district right now. I don't know for certain, I went to school in Oklahoma, and my mother didn't sign the permission slip for me to take sex ed in 6th grade. I was the only 6th grader who spent an hour for each of like 3 days sitting in a 5th grade class.
This is grooming and also making sure kids with "issues" such as being LGBT are "counseled" to accept the christer cult instead of giving them real help.
This is just another attempt to destroy the public school system. Vouchers to defund it. Then install incompetent “professionals” to run it so folks will flock to the private schools for a better education. But with so many folks unable to afford tuition, even with the vouchers, children will not get educated. Then only the wealthy few will have be able to be educated, and the rest will be excluded again from seats of power and reward. Texas putting unlicensed chaplains in the schools, Florida filling teaching positions with untrained veterans, and presidents installing the likes of DeVoss as the head of education (someone who has admitted publicly she wanted to eliminate public schools entirely and has never stepped foot in a public school in her life), what else are we to conclude.
The GOP thrives when folks are uneducated and have nothing. Corporations make larger profits when their workers can’t improve their lives and don’t know any better. Wealthy get wealthier, the powerful get more power. The gap between the haves and the have-nots will only get larger, and it is already the largest it’s ever been.
Standard fundie conservative strategy. Cut needed public services on the one hand, while favoring private Christian versions of those same services on the other.
The church having lost the ability to physically force people to attend, does the next best thing: use the power of the state to prevent people from getting the things they want and need from anywhere else.
This can't be legal, please tell me this isn't legal. But this is Texas and Trumpian American so who the fuck knows. Ugh, it's too early in the morning to be this angry.
Yes, he'll undoubtedly jump on this like white on rice. He took on The Mouse and stepped in a Disney Mousetrap (TM) with that royal lives clause, so he'll be spoiling for another fight where he can impose his will and show everyone just who's in charge.
Seriously? It's not as though they don't have enough Jesus in the Lone Star State as it is. They've got a dentist on the school board, insisting that creationism be taught instead of evolution. There's the usual crap about thoughts and prayers every time someone with an AR-15 decides to run amok at a Walmart or a school. Governor Abbott leans on Jesus as though he were a member of his administration ... and NOW they want bible-thumpers instead of trained counselors?!?
If I lived in Texas (and I don't, though at times, I think Mike DeWine wants to take Ohio in the same stupid direction!), and I had a kid in school, I would be screaming bloody murder about this ... and I hope Texas residents 𝗗𝗢 𝗝𝗨𝗦𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗔𝗧.
As a Texan who grew up in these schools and has kids in these schools, I can honestly say that I have absolutely no doubt that as terrifying as this shit keeps getting, something is about to break. It’s too much of everything all the time. They are putting fascist pressure on so many areas at once that the ven diagram of cross over is almost just a circle. At least I’m hoping it’s too much. Maybe I’m being absurdly naive.
That is how it worked. When the birds and rats were finished with the body, they would take the carcass to the town dump and toss it in. No proper Jewish burial for the condemned. Needless to say, the biblical account is pure fiction.
When considering this, I feel it would behoove the lawmakers to remember that several religious organizations have had some serious issues in the school-age bracket for a while now. The state would still be responsible for putting chaplains in the school building, in the unfortunate event that something happens.
Which it will, when Texas does this. We all know they're not going to set up any kind of vetting process, they're just going to assume it's Jesus so that makes it okay.
Texas lawmakers attempt to expose children to unqualified demagogues and pedophiles instead of providing any actual help or resources despite a budget surplus.
It's unethical, rankly immoral, and a perfect example of Christianity's treatment of children.
Someone explain to me why, exactly, we as a species haven't toppled every fucking church and thrown these sanctimonious narcissists into a ditch somewhere?
You really want an answer? At least in part because:
1. Some people are afraid of death and its finality
2. A LOT of people have been so indoctrinated by religion that they can't shake it
3. Some people are just go-along-to-get-along, and haven't the courage to confront the status quo.
It's a lousy deal. Still, OUR numbers are growing while theirs are in decline, and that trend continues ... and that don't bother me in the slightest measure!
I've been hearing about the evangelical bloc shrinking for years and years, yet they arguably have more power now than they ever have. Christians will take all life on the planet with them before they willingly give up their position of unearned dominance.
Waiting on demographics isn't enough. There have to be stronger pushes. At the very least something like an anti-smoking campaign.
My comment doesn't make sense unless you know about the bill to place the 10 Cs in every classroom. Hemant just posted about it, but I thought he already had. I guess I saw it in someone's comment.
This should be absurdly unconstitutional on the face of it, but with our new and improved hard right Christo-fascist Supreme Court, who knows. Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars.
"Conservative Christians can NEVER stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars."
I grew up in a fundie christian household and spent a significant part of my young adulthood around these creeps.
They. Will. Not. Stop. Trust me on this.
I could plainly see their desire to rule the world and punish "moral failing" (i.e., "sexsin" when no kiddos were within earshot) with prison time, even when I was brainwashed enough to think that was a good thing. I heard a teacher in our congregation lauded for leading prayer in her classroom in defiance of the law as she boasted about (and this is a direct quote) "sneaking a little religion on them" with a chuckle (predicably, in our uber-conservative rural school district, she was never sued or even reprimanded). I can't even count the number of times I heard the phrase "all this so-called mental illness is the direct result of SIN in the world" thundered from a pulpit, even as I struggled with what I did not know then was a form of clinical depression.
Every battle they win now just whets their appetite for more power.
They won't stop at just marking territory. They won't stop until they fucking own it and control it.
They won't stop at exerting control over tax-funded agencies like schools. They won't stop until they fucking run every school in the country on our dime.
They won't stop at just siphoning off tax dollars here and there for religious enterprises (they've already been doing that since at least the Bush I and Bush II regimes). They won't stop until our tax dollars are paid directly to them instead of the IRS. Tithing, taxes...there will be no difference.
They will not stop. They must BE stopped. But I despair of ever seeing that happen.
Thing is, they are being stopped all the time. They're being stopped by the Freedom From Religion Foundation and American Atheists and the American Humanist Association, never mind the ACLU and other organizations who value the separation of state and church. I literally just finished reading my monthly copy of Freethought Today (from the FFRF), and every issue I've ever seen reports victories over prayer in schools or removal of 10 commandment displays or city councils ceasing religious invocations at meetings. Yeah, sometimes it feels like playing Whack-A-Mole, but the fight is on.
And there ain't no quit in our side.
We can't just keep playing whack a mole though. We need to get to the root of the problem and excise Christianity from our government and our culture.
I'd love to see it. Fact is, though, excising religion entirely from any culture would be one hell of a trick. What I hope to see at some point, though, is the reduction of religion's influence on society, to the eventual point where, while it will still be around, its relevance and influence are badly compromised.
That's one hell of a job to do, and the organizations I mentioned above are well-engaged in that fight. I should mention, too, that I'm a member of FFRF and have worked with them on more than one occasion to keep that wall up. Wishful thinking won't get this business done. Hard work at least has a chance.
I would liken it to fighting the Hydra - cut off one head and two grow back.
When Jason fought the Hydra, he finally ignored fighting the heads and slew the beast by thrusting his sword into its heart.
If we could figure out how to do that....
Encouraging. But people -- good people, dedicated people -- have fought and fought and fought these jackals and Roe is still gone. Trans and LGBTQ people are in more danger of proudly unapologetic physical violence than they've been in a long time. And we're still stuck with a SCOTUS from hell and far-right judiciary all over the country throwing up roadblocks to justice and compassion and human decency at every turn.
Fundies are stupidly proud of their ignorance, but they are also dangerous as hell. They are fueled by a wild-eyed zealotry and fanaticism the likes of which I have never seen equaled anywhere else, and which the leaders keep stoked to a fever pitch with variations on Two Minute Hates sprinkled liberally in messages to their flocks. (For a secular version of this, see any Trump rally).
The parishioner numbers are slowly dropping. At some point in the future, perhaps the churches will lose their power as their old base dies off and isn't replaced by "new blood."
Trust me. They won't just passively allow that power to escape them due to dwindling numbers. They will actively seek or build ways to ensure their minority rule and codify their cruelty into law. That's why they have been infiltrating the public sphere for decades. I know these people. I know how they think. Please don't underestimate the cray-cray. They are dangerous.
I cannot disagree with your statement. I very much agree, they are dangerous.
What do you think is the purpose of schools like the New Covenant christian elementary school in Nashville and the many others across the nation. What is the purpose of the christian colleges like Liberty Univ and Bob Jones Univ? They are looking to keep that supply line full at all times with new christians.
I hear ya, and I know it's a lot harder to break free from childhood indoctrination. Those poor kids....
The chaplains do not need to be licensed, will they be subject to background checks? And will the background checks be thorough enough to catch the preachers and pastor’s whoa have groomed entire congregations while molesting the children in their care? You know, the ones who admit on stage in church to the entire congregation that they had a sexual relationship with a minor and get standing ovations rather than handcuffs. The ones who have convinced all the adults who ought to be protecting their children that the sexual advances are just god’s love so they don’t end up charged with statutory rape. Maybe the ones who married the, technically legal with parental permission, child when she became pregnant, should not be in schools with unfettered and unmonitored access to underage children.
That’s only one red flag I see that Hemant didn’t bring up in the article.
Perhaps he might address that in another post; it's certainly important enough to warrant a post all its own, exploring this issue. Thoughts, Hemant? I would certainly be interested.
They may be nouthetic counselors who have a clobber verse for every situation.
It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for citizens to pool some money to hire a professional to do the background checks the state has failed to provide.
Not outside the realm of possibility, but highly unlikely. Especially in underserved areas and urban schools with little tax base. Parents already have to spend so much money on their kids’ education, there’s very little left to fund a background check on the creepy preacher stuffed into the school. And non parents don’t bother questioning what is happening in schools -unless the GOP tells them there are littler boxes and drag queens everywhere.
The school has a duty to vet every person who works and volunteers at the school, but oftentimes it isn’t enough. Like I said, the checks need to be able to find the preachers who haven’t been through the legal system for these types of crimes, because they rarely go to the legal system.
Yeah, let's give clergy access to kids. That sounds like a GREAT idea. :P
This will be a disaster for LGBT students. Which these asshole likely consider a feature. I'd like to know how an untrained chaplain is supposed to help kids "navigate complex emotions", especially better than a trained psychologist.
Does Texas' schools have sex education beside chastity ?
I'm pretty sure it varies by school district right now. I don't know for certain, I went to school in Oklahoma, and my mother didn't sign the permission slip for me to take sex ed in 6th grade. I was the only 6th grader who spent an hour for each of like 3 days sitting in a 5th grade class.
Sex ed in Texas: "𝘋𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘹, 𝘌𝘥. 𝘊𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘴 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘥."
Are you kidding? They may not even acknowledge that sex exists.
Too late for that, as a person's very existence is a testament to the existence of S-E-X.
Not only LGBT kids but young women too.
This is grooming and also making sure kids with "issues" such as being LGBT are "counseled" to accept the christer cult instead of giving them real help.
This is just another attempt to destroy the public school system. Vouchers to defund it. Then install incompetent “professionals” to run it so folks will flock to the private schools for a better education. But with so many folks unable to afford tuition, even with the vouchers, children will not get educated. Then only the wealthy few will have be able to be educated, and the rest will be excluded again from seats of power and reward. Texas putting unlicensed chaplains in the schools, Florida filling teaching positions with untrained veterans, and presidents installing the likes of DeVoss as the head of education (someone who has admitted publicly she wanted to eliminate public schools entirely and has never stepped foot in a public school in her life), what else are we to conclude.
The GOP thrives when folks are uneducated and have nothing. Corporations make larger profits when their workers can’t improve their lives and don’t know any better. Wealthy get wealthier, the powerful get more power. The gap between the haves and the have-nots will only get larger, and it is already the largest it’s ever been.
Clergy -> Schools : Fox -> Henhouse
Standard fundie conservative strategy. Cut needed public services on the one hand, while favoring private Christian versions of those same services on the other.
The church having lost the ability to physically force people to attend, does the next best thing: use the power of the state to prevent people from getting the things they want and need from anywhere else.
Chaplains. In schools. Mandated.
Jesus Fucking Christ....
https://i.redd.it/mnlnfa1kx3i51.jpg
I needed a laugh today! Thnx!
So that's why he never got married!
This can't be legal, please tell me this isn't legal. But this is Texas and Trumpian American so who the fuck knows. Ugh, it's too early in the morning to be this angry.
Wait for desatan and his cohort to hear about this and to try to do "better".
Expect DeSantis to add chaplains to school, and make students meeting with them manditory.
In 3...2...1....
Yes, he'll undoubtedly jump on this like white on rice. He took on The Mouse and stepped in a Disney Mousetrap (TM) with that royal lives clause, so he'll be spoiling for another fight where he can impose his will and show everyone just who's in charge.
Got problems? MORE JESUS!!!
Seriously? It's not as though they don't have enough Jesus in the Lone Star State as it is. They've got a dentist on the school board, insisting that creationism be taught instead of evolution. There's the usual crap about thoughts and prayers every time someone with an AR-15 decides to run amok at a Walmart or a school. Governor Abbott leans on Jesus as though he were a member of his administration ... and NOW they want bible-thumpers instead of trained counselors?!?
If I lived in Texas (and I don't, though at times, I think Mike DeWine wants to take Ohio in the same stupid direction!), and I had a kid in school, I would be screaming bloody murder about this ... and I hope Texas residents 𝗗𝗢 𝗝𝗨𝗦𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗔𝗧.
Sadly cdbunch lives there.
OUCH. At least Aron Ra is there, too! 😁
As a Texan who grew up in these schools and has kids in these schools, I can honestly say that I have absolutely no doubt that as terrifying as this shit keeps getting, something is about to break. It’s too much of everything all the time. They are putting fascist pressure on so many areas at once that the ven diagram of cross over is almost just a circle. At least I’m hoping it’s too much. Maybe I’m being absurdly naive.
Bro, from where I sit, you may be many things, but naive is NOT one of them.
I so hope you are right. I was educated in Texas thru college. These white men are trying to re-create a world that never existed.
It will end well, it's not like there was hundred of cases of rape and abuse by priests.
No chaplain in French public schools and a lot less schools shooting than in US but yes forced christianity is THE solution 🙄
When all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail. Of course hammers are useful so the metaphor only goes so far...
The Romans tried the whole hammer-and-nails thing, and look where 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 got us!
They should have just left him up for the scavengers.
I'll admit that Christians walking around with pendants depicting crows pecking their savior's eyes out 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 be an improvement...
That is how it worked. When the birds and rats were finished with the body, they would take the carcass to the town dump and toss it in. No proper Jewish burial for the condemned. Needless to say, the biblical account is pure fiction.
When considering this, I feel it would behoove the lawmakers to remember that several religious organizations have had some serious issues in the school-age bracket for a while now. The state would still be responsible for putting chaplains in the school building, in the unfortunate event that something happens.
Which it will, when Texas does this. We all know they're not going to set up any kind of vetting process, they're just going to assume it's Jesus so that makes it okay.
Aaaand... let the child abuse begin!
Never trust anyone with the title 'youth pastor.' 😇
Texas lawmakers attempt to expose children to unqualified demagogues and pedophiles instead of providing any actual help or resources despite a budget surplus.
It's unethical, rankly immoral, and a perfect example of Christianity's treatment of children.
Someone explain to me why, exactly, we as a species haven't toppled every fucking church and thrown these sanctimonious narcissists into a ditch somewhere?
You really want an answer? At least in part because:
1. Some people are afraid of death and its finality
2. A LOT of people have been so indoctrinated by religion that they can't shake it
3. Some people are just go-along-to-get-along, and haven't the courage to confront the status quo.
It's a lousy deal. Still, OUR numbers are growing while theirs are in decline, and that trend continues ... and that don't bother me in the slightest measure!
This. Number 2. It took me decades of actively trying before I escaped.
I've been hearing about the evangelical bloc shrinking for years and years, yet they arguably have more power now than they ever have. Christians will take all life on the planet with them before they willingly give up their position of unearned dominance.
Waiting on demographics isn't enough. There have to be stronger pushes. At the very least something like an anti-smoking campaign.
Someone has to polish the 10C plaques.
My comment doesn't make sense unless you know about the bill to place the 10 Cs in every classroom. Hemant just posted about it, but I thought he already had. I guess I saw it in someone's comment.
https://friendlyatheist.substack.com/p/texas-bills-would-force-classrooms