190 Comments

I find it suspect that a judge mandated a specific group provide this training. The fact that it was ADF is just shit on top of manure.

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Makes me wonder if the judge has connections to ADF.

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Considering Judge Starr's commentary, cited in the article, I'd say it's more than likely and worthy of further investigation.

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Christians being dishonest? Say it ain't so! 😉

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It ain't so. Happy now? BTW, there are eight days in a week.

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"It ain't so. Happy now?"

Oh, you. 😉

And Zorgin beat me to the Beatles. It's what I get for being elsewhere on the thread.

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And I did it while typing one-handed.

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I have to do that when I type at 8AM and 8PM. Hand therapy.

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Shea Stadium. Demolished in 2008. 😢

The band said that no one could hear anything above the screams. The "speakers" they were "plugged into" were dinky little things.

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I caught a game there in '91. It was refreshing to learn they practiced safe beer.

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My first thought.

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I think the fact it's ADF just gives away the game completely.

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Mandates a training the plaintiff never asked for, from a group the plaintiff never mentioned.

Aren't we glad conservatives take such a principled stance against legislating from the bench? /s.

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How the majority of American conservatives don’t choke on their own insufferable hypocrisy is beyond me

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Simple: No gag reflex.

I mean, it should be pretty obvious by now.

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I will be a little surprised if this is not appealed.

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If I were the company I would send 3 non christians lawyers.

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I believe the 'judge' named three specific lawyers.

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The newspaper article on the case was very interesting. The woman was represented by the National Right to Work [for less], a rabidly anti-union bunch. Get a load of the loaded language the RTW types use, describing the union local president as a "union boss" and implying that workers who belong to unions are somehow being forced or coerced into joining. For anybody who doesn't get that white christian nationalism and vicious anti-worker policies are joined at the hip and have been for a long time, here's modern exhibit A.

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"it is in the economic best interest of this fine nation, that employers be allowed to terminate their relationship to any worker for any reason, except for of course our client." - her lawyers probably.

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So she sent multiple messages harassing a union leader for attending a women’s March and was fired for that? I assume companies have policies against harassment that allows this to be a fireable offense. I struggle to see how this was in anyway an infringement on her religious freedom. She’s welcome to believe abortion is wrong if she wants, but she shouldn’t be allowed to harass those who disagree with her.

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Yeah, but this version of “Christian” believes they are obligated to force their religion on others, and stopping them from doing so is the same as preventing them from practicing their religion. Hate speech is free speech is freedom of religion. When they can’t win a debate, they redefine terminology to their favor.

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Well, it’s freedom of speech to attack women going to planned parenthood for healthcare. Why would this be any different?

That’s why the buffer zones in many places were eliminated. Why volunteers are needed to protect women entering the clinics. Why clinics have back doors.

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Run 'em over when they block the driveway, they'll learn quickly.

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As amusing as that might be, violence really won't solve the problem.

Well, okay, that's what I keep telling myself. It keeps me from having to serve prison time.

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They're already calling you a murderer even though you're going for your gynecologic exam.

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Self defense.

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The Alliance for Defending Freedom, is more about Christian privilege than actual freedom. People who constantly talk about religious liberty are rarely talking about anyone's liberty but their own. There is no job worth submitting to this class to keep. I will respect your right to believe what you wish, just as long as you don't try to force it on me. I will NEVER have any respect your supernatural beliefs.

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The Alliance for Defending Christofascism. FIFY

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Too complicated to pronounce. alliance defunding freedom.

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Truth.

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I can’t believe what I’m reading

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New here? ;)

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No, just more incredulous with each new violation of the Constitution & people’s rights by these rethuglican yahoos playing judge

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It really is incredible, I hope we're hitting the nadir and the 2024 election will be the beginning of good stuff.

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Now who’s new here lol?!? But in all seriousness, I love your optimism & hope you’re right ;)

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Heh. I'm usually pessimistic but try not to be. It's a lot easier not to try to do anything when I'm being like that. :)

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Most of us followed Hemant here and there when he left Patheos :)

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With a brief stopover at OnlySky Media.

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Sorry, you kinda lost me with Hemant etc- but I was just teasing NoOne of Consequence because they responded to my earlier comment with “New here?” lol

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[sigh ... pardon me. Just back from mowing the lawn and I'm all of a muck sweat!]

How many different ways is this screwed up? Between Southwest Airlines poking their noses where they should in no ways be welcome and Judge Starr pulling the ADF out of his tailbone as a cure where there is neither disease nor wrongdoing is fucked up beyond all recognition. While I'm not certain that the three lawyers would consider referring to the Freedom From Religion Foundation or American Atheists for support in contesting this case, I would LOVE to see either or both of them at least investigate and perhaps offer their own take on this ridiculous mess.

Regardless, I can see 100 different ways this could get MORE tangled, and followup is clearly indicated.

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It seems to me that perhaps Starr is the one who should be attending classes on religious freedom...

Following the landmark ruling of Obergefell v. Hodges, Starr signed an opinion letter claiming that despite the Supreme Court establishing what he referred to as a “new constitutional right,” civil servants, including clerks, judges, and justices of the peace, could refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Starr supported a Texas House bill that advocates explained would provide “religious based groups a license to discriminate, allowing them to refuse to place foster children with gay couples or families with different religious backgrounds.”

Starr defended a bill (“Hope for Orphans and Minors Expansion Act,” or HOME Act) which would prohibit the state from addressing groups who deny adoption services to same-sex couples based on “sincerely held religious beliefs.” Advocates argued that the bill could even permit these groups to impose harmful disciplinary actions on children under the guise of religion, such as conversion therapy, without the state being able to intervene.

Source: https://www.afj.org/document/brantley-starr-background-report/

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But conversion therapy is freedom of speech or maybe religion, whichever excuse works better for the torture of children.

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So he has a history of being an asshole.

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I only picked a few off of that list, too. It is a pretty extensive list of shitty things that he has done.

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So, this implies that being anti-abortion is actually a religious view, and this case sets a precedent to evidence that. We need more of these sorts of cases where they (the courts) formally declare anti-abortion views to be based in religious views. There is supposed to be a separation between church and state, and while the Christian right has been more emboldened to say plainly that they don’t believe that, and the zealots in the SCOTUS are willing to throw away precedent and cite British witch hunter laws to justify rolling back rights, we still need them to say it aloud, and on record. And a judge forcing people to attend a specific religion’s terrorist training course as a corrective measure, for allegedly breaching religious discrimination law, is another precedent being set, and it supports the one stating that anti-abortion views are based in religion.

It should be easy enough to contest the training course as being favorable to a single religion above all others, given the people who created it. That in itself is religious discrimination. And, if they are still forced to attend, they should record the entire thing and share it publicly.

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And really highlight the ADFs designation as a known hate group.

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Oh, but that designation is unfairly applied by a liberal hate group. /s

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VERY publicly.

This is what's coming down the pike, John and Jane Q. Public. FORCED religious indoctrination of ADULTS at you place of employment. Is this what you want?

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Christian Nazi say what?

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{redundancy detected}

(See also: "Gott Mit Uns")

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“It’s hard to see how Southwest could have violated the notice requirement more.”

Really? Your imagination is that impoverished? They could've said "No, we aren't going to do it!"

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The judge sounds like the kind of person who doesn't understand the word 'no'.

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The judge is Ken Starr's nephew. The same Ken Starr who was president at Baylor University and was fired for failing to properly address sexual assault/rape issues on campus.

[Edited: corrected "son" to "nephew" - apologies]

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Like father...well, you know.

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God, I hope not. I love my father, but I certainly hope I'm more empathetic and nurturing than that.

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It’s not a hard & fast rule ;)

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So my grandmother cheated on my grandfather not once (the yougest) but thrice.

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One of my mom's husbands (not my dad) not only cheated on my mom, he brought the woman home and wanted them all to be friends. My mom kicked them both out of the house.

He wasn't just a womanizer, he was also a drunk and an antisemite. Needless to say, the marriage crumbled.

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DM's mother should have had 6 children, only 2 of them, twins, had the same father.

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By hook or by crook I'm the 1st in this book. :) And this judge seems just a little partisan? (That is typical Kiwi understatement by the way.)

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The point has been made here more than once that a certain type of Christian ceaseless yearns for the days when they could punish those seen as insufficiently faithful.

Exhibit A

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it has now been officially called. It looks like Ohio Issue 1 is about to fail.

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Like in Kansas, reality prevailed despite gop legislature fantasms.

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There's no "about" about it. It FAILED. The current tally shows it coming up SHORT: No - 56-57% to Yes - 43-44%. As I said before, Issue One is TOAST!!!

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Ugh, any way to cancel that subscription?

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what do you mean?

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Explaining the joke:

Calling it "Issue 1" means they've already planned an entire series out. Like a magazine subscription, more issues will be released on a regular schedule.

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I get the feeling this there's more going on here than we know at this time. This decision seems highly suspect, and while there is no evidence that any money or favors have changed hands, it seems like the sort of decision that would result from such. At best this judge is asking a group of people who are somewhere between lobbyists and dubious litigators to 'teach' something said group has a vested interest in perceiving a specific way.

No reputable workplace would allow any employee to express their opinion in the way Charlene Carter did; if I were to write something of that nature at any of my former jobs I would fully expect to be fired on the spot. Such behavior is unprofessional, promotes poor morale, and generally is not conducive to a healthy workplace environment. Ms. Charter might want to be careful with that settlement, since this suit might make it hard for her to find gainful employment anywhere else for a while.

Good luck to Southwest Airlines, and wow is that something I never expected to actually type out in my lifetime. :p

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EXTRA, EXTRA!!! POT CALLS KETTLE BLACK! Film at 11!

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Ya got trouble, folks! Trouble, with a capital D!

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Ooo, "serious, deep, demonic trouble"! Sounds sexy. Also sounds like something a kid would say while playing D&D.

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There are kids who seriously say that outside jack chick cheap toilet paper ?

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Probably. I mean, noobs. *I* wouldn't play with them... <.<

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Because of our conversation about Swedish women I read boobs 😅

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I'd be worried about the possibly toxic ink used to print that trash.

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I have no intention to get a tattoo with them.

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Now I picture your arm with a Jack Chick-like HAW! HAW! HAW! gracing it. 😃

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As a good elder you should show me how it's done 😁

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Get the 🍿

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I ran out of popcorn. got some tim's jalapeno chips

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Religious freedom training? I suggest the FFRF.

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