Creationists have been flailing away at poor old Darwin for a century and a half and have yet to land a punch. If they understood how science works they wouldn't waste their time attacking evolution, they would be proving their own point. Given there is no evidence for their beliefs, this is a tall order. They cling to the delusion they win by default if Darwin can just be discredited. Darwin is hardly their only problem. Pretty much everything we think we know about the life-sciences, geology, and cosmology have to be wrong as well, while some Bronze Age goat herders who did not know where the sun went at night got things exactly right.
Well, there is the question of whether *we're* still evolving. One we tend to attempt to adapt the environment to us rather than the other way around. Two, we assist the less well adapted and let them reproduce. Of course, it's moot whether we're evolving, because our own stupidity is going to cause our extinction within another century or so.
Isn’t it fun how Satan is more interested in actively proving to us there’s no God than God is proving to us there is? He can plant fossils all over the world but he can’t translate a Bible to say something different than the God meant?
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
I remember the moment when my Christian girlfriend turned to me and asked hopefully: "Dinosaur bones could have been put there by the devil, right?" And even as I assured her they could, I perceived the idiotic sound of it. Even as a brainwashed Christian, I felt guilty and fake, affirming such silly nonsense.
Darwin got a lot of things wrong. Discrediting the things he got wrong can't do anything to help the creationist false dilemma. Discrediting what he got right can't be done, there is too much evidence.
Darwin made it clear his ideas were a theory, and I don't know he ever claimed to be right about everything. As science marched on, it has confirmed the essence of his theory, and keeps doing so.
In scientific parlance, what he proposed was a hypothesis — a POSSIBLE explanation for what we observe — and he claimed no more than that for it: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". It was only after massive amounts of evidence piled up in support that that hypothesis that scientists determined that it deserved to be called by the term of high respect: "theory".
As the National Academy of Sciences explains “The theory of evolution explains how life on Earth has changed. In scientific terms, ‘theory’ does not mean ‘guess’ or ‘hunch’ as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. Biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the enormous range of observations about the living world. ... The occurrence of evolution in this sense is a fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence supporting the idea is so strong.”
I believe the anti-science movement we are currently suffering through is a continuation and expansion of the movement 19th-century Christians started when they denied evolution. That rejection paved the way for later movements like climate denial, anti-vax, flat earth, etc.
This biting satire makes the YECs clinging to their ignorance seem willful. These folks put paid to Hanlon’s Razor, “ Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” The willful ignorance of some must be an incredible amount of work that can only be caused by some sort of malice, even if it just greed.
"fewer now saying God created human beings in their present form and more saying humans evolved without God’s help from less advanced forms of life over millions of years."
As a working rock-licker with a paleontologist for a mother, I take umbrage at the wording used in the poll. The notion of "less advanced forms" is bullshit; that's not how evolution works. There is no "progress" in the rise of one species from another and increasing complexity is no measure of "more evolved". That is just human hubris.
Speciation, whether arising from punctuated equilibrium or some other mechanism, like extended geographical isolation, simply selects for what is well adapted; there are plenty of examples of organisms evolving and becoming less complex over time. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.
I like to deliberately misunderstand “lower” and “higher” life forms when I see someone using those terms. “Higher life forms? Like trees? And critters that live in mountains?” “Lower life forms? Stuff that lives underground or below sea level”.
That fits with my own description of evolution. I watch nature shows and shudder when they describe species as "perfectly adapted". I end up hollering at the TV, "No, no! They are barely adequate." In the game of survival, being barely adequate is enough to win.
If I take some boards and some nails and build a dog house, does that not make me a creationist, i.e. I created something from nothing? And if the dog likes it, does that make him/her consider me a god? Oh, and of course, since I feed and shelter it and otherwise meet its needs, does it therefore worship me and perhaps praise me to other dogs? I think I'm beginning to see a pattern her. Hmmmmmmm...
"You took too long to build my kitty tree, human, and you are now late for my dinnertime. You shall serve me forthwith, and be quick about it, or I shall hurk in your favorite shoes to punish you."
Wait are you talking about dogs or cats? The cat owners I know worship their Feline deities. Fortunately the cats aren’t silly and pushing stuff like creationism.
My Dogesses, Aria and Rhapsodie, they expected my mother and me to drop whatever we were doing to walk or feed them. They got what they wanted nearly all the time.
No no no no. The Earth is clearly a meatball which has fallen from His Great Pasta Bowl. One day, we shall return to the embrace of His Noodly Appendage, and be anointed with Parmesan as we take our place in the Sauce.
I would love to ask Dumb Idiot ham the same question. If he thinks all of the Bible is true then why does he and other creationists like him blatantly skip all the books of the Bible that tells about the history of Israel, 95% of the 4 Gospel books, and 95% of Paul's letters? Focusing only on Genesis 1-11, cherry picked, fragmented verses that only fit their creation fantasies, Jesus dying on the cross, God coming along to destroy the earth by fire, verses to threaten and intimidate people into conforming to their toxic ideology, and the verses that fit the creationists perfectly yet used often by creationists to project themselves onto evolutionists and those who refuse to conform to their toxic ideology?
In other words, do they or don't they read all of the Bible from cover to cover?
Theses appalling numbers are proof that religion* and instruction should remain separate, unless men of cloth of all(obedience ?) accept the teaching of evolution and history alongside their holybooks.
* Works with religion and medicine too. If I would be condemned for illegal practice of medicine, why are lawmakers and priests are allowed to do so ?
Believe it. They believe that Hillary kept child sex slaves in a pizzeria basement. Though it was proven that said pizzeria had no basement. What ever he and his prophet Tucker Carlson say, these people believe.
But Trump managed to do it didn't he? When he asked them to pray for that Muslim policeman who was killed in the line of duty. Honestly, some of the reactions to that make me despair about the essentially good nature of humankind.
Yep. Repugs and kkkristers have despised public education for decades. They have always wanted to use it as an extension of their church-and-sunday-school networks for pushing their religious nonsense. As I child, I can still remember preachers screaming (yes, actually SCREAMING) bloody murder from their pulpits about Madelyn Murray O'Hair...in the 70's, nearly a decade after she won her case. And there were some teachers in the schools I attended who routinely ignored the ruling. There was one teacher who routinely read us Bible stories as well.
I think the demise of public schools will bring the demise of America the less we rely on a good education, the more they will have to rely on aggression. Children brainwashing to believing religious nonsense will have two marks against them. They will lack empathy because they’ve been taught to accept atrocities as normal (burning people alive for example) and their ability to be creative will be limited after forcing them to believe nonsense like creationism.
So as America fails to compete in the world it would rely more on its military might. Not a good combination.
Just up until the point when the grand high profit realizes that they will never be able to conquer the world to impose their barbarism on the planet and start launching nukes to bring that end of days they so lust for.
Can confirm. My husband votes, but he just does not pay attention to what is going on in this country. He's busy doing other things and just is not that plugged in to politics. I have been trying to explain things to him for years. I think I might be making some progress. He asks a lot more questions than he used to.
Ya okay six days to create everything then God rested on the 7th day. How many people were actually there at the Garden of Eden? God, Adam and Eve Crowley in snake form and Aziraphale from Good Omens. Sounds extremely silly to me. Thousands of years before the first written word. (I think Neil Gaiman was there too)
Yup. Every religion has their own creation story because they couldn't explain how the Universe or the Earth came to be. First hand account though? Heavy sigh. Creation stories are just that - stories.
Because every time I'm near the liquor store I'd have to leave it in the Texas sun for several hours before I got home, and I haven't *needed* it enough to make a special trip.
"They believe the Bible should supersede the Constitution when it comes to laws they don’t like. And as we’ve seen with reproductive rights, vaccine mandates, public school curricula, and more, the biblical literalists are eager to impose their beliefs on the vast majority of Americans who don’t share their faith, much less an extremist interpretation of their holy book." Would the Biblical literalists out there please show the rest of us where the good book proscribes abortion, vaccine mandates, and public school curricula. It's not enough that you cannot prove the existence of your deity. You somehow believe that an ancient text is a guide for modern living.
Perhaps I'm far behind others, and I don't have any research ready at hand, but I'm beginning to think that many or even most Young Earth Creationists believe what they do because they use the part of their mind/brain that processes what is socially proper, moral, and good, rather than the part of their mind/brain that processes what is logical, reasonable, rational, and sensible.
So they believe it because doing so is a reflection on THEM and their character, rather than a reflection on the empirical facts and evidence.
That might explain why it's so scary to them to consider changing their beliefs about this issue.
You may be right. Some of their awful behaviors support your point, so perhaps I should have worded my statement, "...processes what they THINK is socially proper, moral, and good...," or "...what they CONSIDER TO BE socially proper, moral, and good..," since to people with black belts in hypocrisy, metaethics are subjective in the extreme.
Creationists have been flailing away at poor old Darwin for a century and a half and have yet to land a punch. If they understood how science works they wouldn't waste their time attacking evolution, they would be proving their own point. Given there is no evidence for their beliefs, this is a tall order. They cling to the delusion they win by default if Darwin can just be discredited. Darwin is hardly their only problem. Pretty much everything we think we know about the life-sciences, geology, and cosmology have to be wrong as well, while some Bronze Age goat herders who did not know where the sun went at night got things exactly right.
Not only that there is evidence of evolution in the form of fossilized remains.
Don't you know ? Since all transitional forms of a named species can't be found, evolution is a hoax.
Shhhh, don't tell them this, or their poor little heads might explode, but... 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴.
Well, there is the question of whether *we're* still evolving. One we tend to attempt to adapt the environment to us rather than the other way around. Two, we assist the less well adapted and let them reproduce. Of course, it's moot whether we're evolving, because our own stupidity is going to cause our extinction within another century or so.
I am a transitional form? God didn’t create me in perfect form?
Oh my.
Perfect? Absolutely not. If this was his design, a first year Aggie engineer could have done a better job.
Yes! Who in the hell puts the sewer next to the red light district!!
In males they put the sewer *in* the red light district.
Worse, you are a composite species.
Which one is the perfect form ? With or without toes ? 😁
I say toes. I need my toes to pick things up off the floor.
in their xianSpeak we would need to say: "transitional Kinds of a named ..... ah ... Kinds"
https://youtu.be/UuIwthoLies?t=41
Oh, no! They have an answer to that - Satan put those fossils there to mislead the infidels.
Isn’t it fun how Satan is more interested in actively proving to us there’s no God than God is proving to us there is? He can plant fossils all over the world but he can’t translate a Bible to say something different than the God meant?
I think it is in The Epistle to the Hebrews where the bible refers to Satan as "the god of this world"...
Well that would explain Evangelicals constantly referencing God… 🤔
I got curious ...
Trumpfs favorite: 2 Corinthians 4:4
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
I remember the moment when my Christian girlfriend turned to me and asked hopefully: "Dinosaur bones could have been put there by the devil, right?" And even as I assured her they could, I perceived the idiotic sound of it. Even as a brainwashed Christian, I felt guilty and fake, affirming such silly nonsense.
Didn't they tell you those fossils are fake evidence planted there by the devil?
+++
“Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.”
—Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian biologist
"Nothing in biology makes sense"
-creationists
Darwin got a lot of things wrong. Discrediting the things he got wrong can't do anything to help the creationist false dilemma. Discrediting what he got right can't be done, there is too much evidence.
Darwin made it clear his ideas were a theory, and I don't know he ever claimed to be right about everything. As science marched on, it has confirmed the essence of his theory, and keeps doing so.
All science posits theories. demonizing the word theory by the religious is total denial of reason and observation in favor of identity within a cult.
Theories like gravity.
+++
In scientific parlance, what he proposed was a hypothesis — a POSSIBLE explanation for what we observe — and he claimed no more than that for it: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". It was only after massive amounts of evidence piled up in support that that hypothesis that scientists determined that it deserved to be called by the term of high respect: "theory".
As the National Academy of Sciences explains “The theory of evolution explains how life on Earth has changed. In scientific terms, ‘theory’ does not mean ‘guess’ or ‘hunch’ as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. Biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the enormous range of observations about the living world. ... The occurrence of evolution in this sense is a fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence supporting the idea is so strong.”
If you close your eyes and ears, the evidence goes away.
I think most creationists have no idea how the scientific method works, and that's a big part of the problem.
The creationist’s idea of “science” is to start from the conclusion and work backasswards.
I believe the anti-science movement we are currently suffering through is a continuation and expansion of the movement 19th-century Christians started when they denied evolution. That rejection paved the way for later movements like climate denial, anti-vax, flat earth, etc.
Pigeons playing chess.
Yes strutting around, knocking over pieces, shitting on the board and acting like you 'won'.
https://www.theonion.com/sumerians-look-on-in-confusion-as-god-creates-world-1819571221
This biting satire makes the YECs clinging to their ignorance seem willful. These folks put paid to Hanlon’s Razor, “ Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” The willful ignorance of some must be an incredible amount of work that can only be caused by some sort of malice, even if it just greed.
"fewer now saying God created human beings in their present form and more saying humans evolved without God’s help from less advanced forms of life over millions of years."
As a working rock-licker with a paleontologist for a mother, I take umbrage at the wording used in the poll. The notion of "less advanced forms" is bullshit; that's not how evolution works. There is no "progress" in the rise of one species from another and increasing complexity is no measure of "more evolved". That is just human hubris.
Speciation, whether arising from punctuated equilibrium or some other mechanism, like extended geographical isolation, simply selects for what is well adapted; there are plenty of examples of organisms evolving and becoming less complex over time. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.
I like to deliberately misunderstand “lower” and “higher” life forms when I see someone using those terms. “Higher life forms? Like trees? And critters that live in mountains?” “Lower life forms? Stuff that lives underground or below sea level”.
I suppose to xians, the debil would then be the lowest. works both ways
'well adapted' doesn't seem right either. 'adequately adapted' would seem to fit better.
That fits with my own description of evolution. I watch nature shows and shudder when they describe species as "perfectly adapted". I end up hollering at the TV, "No, no! They are barely adequate." In the game of survival, being barely adequate is enough to win.
Burgess fauna is a good example.
Exactly!
thank you, I like that .. something I have not thought on
If I take some boards and some nails and build a dog house, does that not make me a creationist, i.e. I created something from nothing? And if the dog likes it, does that make him/her consider me a god? Oh, and of course, since I feed and shelter it and otherwise meet its needs, does it therefore worship me and perhaps praise me to other dogs? I think I'm beginning to see a pattern her. Hmmmmmmm...
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch
You must first invent the universe“
Carl Sagan
You didn’t make the doghouse from nothing, you had wood and nails.
And hands.
Do that for a cat and see what happens.
"You took too long to build my kitty tree, human, and you are now late for my dinnertime. You shall serve me forthwith, and be quick about it, or I shall hurk in your favorite shoes to punish you."
You used the wrong kind of rope, and the dangly feather doesn't move enough.
It'll take a week to see if ze is just curious or if ze actually likes it.
Cats rule.
Well my dog does think I’m her God.
My Dogesses tended to think they were mine, especially Aria.
Wait are you talking about dogs or cats? The cat owners I know worship their Feline deities. Fortunately the cats aren’t silly and pushing stuff like creationism.
My Dogesses, Aria and Rhapsodie, they expected my mother and me to drop whatever we were doing to walk or feed them. They got what they wanted nearly all the time.
I think it’s the state of mind, I’m sure they worshiped you for your blessings, cats on the other hand, blessed you for your worshiping.
I have a picture somewhere with 4 different dishes DM prepared and Aria refused. You were saying ? 😁
'i am the master of the dog who owns me'
No no no no. The Earth is clearly a meatball which has fallen from His Great Pasta Bowl. One day, we shall return to the embrace of His Noodly Appendage, and be anointed with Parmesan as we take our place in the Sauce.
https://media.tenor.com/8dYKZ4cLZoQAAAAM/mama-mia-thats-a-spicy-meatball.gif
rAmen .. all hail
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/02a9076cfd0cfea0d61655dfd4f3f9ec586ffafb9816608570d43e4b9e3f7283.jpg
They should change the name from string theory to noodle theory.
37%. How big a percent of 37% of Creationists have ever read Genesis 1 and 2? Have even opened a bible?
I would love to ask Dumb Idiot ham the same question. If he thinks all of the Bible is true then why does he and other creationists like him blatantly skip all the books of the Bible that tells about the history of Israel, 95% of the 4 Gospel books, and 95% of Paul's letters? Focusing only on Genesis 1-11, cherry picked, fragmented verses that only fit their creation fantasies, Jesus dying on the cross, God coming along to destroy the earth by fire, verses to threaten and intimidate people into conforming to their toxic ideology, and the verses that fit the creationists perfectly yet used often by creationists to project themselves onto evolutionists and those who refuse to conform to their toxic ideology?
In other words, do they or don't they read all of the Bible from cover to cover?
they are specialists. don't need all those other stinking books
Theses appalling numbers are proof that religion* and instruction should remain separate, unless men of cloth of all(obedience ?) accept the teaching of evolution and history alongside their holybooks.
* Works with religion and medicine too. If I would be condemned for illegal practice of medicine, why are lawmakers and priests are allowed to do so ?
obedience is almost certainly not the word you're looking for, I think just faith or denomination would fit better in that sentence..
Those 37% will believe 2+2=5 if Trump says it's true.
Rule #1 of politics: Never insult the voters.
Dotard the Disgraced Orange Shitegibbon has no problem insulting his slobbering hoard. They seem to enjoy it.
Just waiting for the shooting right on Fifth Avenue. They will never abandon Trump. It would be tantamount to admitting Jesus isn't God.
Believe it or they're just not smart enough for math?
Believe it. They believe that Hillary kept child sex slaves in a pizzeria basement. Though it was proven that said pizzeria had no basement. What ever he and his prophet Tucker Carlson say, these people believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMIKzUAY8n4
tRump is favored by scamvangelicals because he sounds just like their preachers hurling insults at them.
But Trump managed to do it didn't he? When he asked them to pray for that Muslim policeman who was killed in the line of duty. Honestly, some of the reactions to that make me despair about the essentially good nature of humankind.
None of the above. All three answers assume a god.
I also have a problem with the "lesser life form" language.
Well, dang! I knew some smart-alecky hooman would see through my story and use logic to disprove my statement! Smite thee, heathen! 😏
They still wield power because too many normal Americans still don't vote or pay attention to what's going on with their governments.
If... gods forbid.. Donald Trump wins, you can expect creationism to find its way back into science classes in public schools.
What public schools ?
Yep. Repugs and kkkristers have despised public education for decades. They have always wanted to use it as an extension of their church-and-sunday-school networks for pushing their religious nonsense. As I child, I can still remember preachers screaming (yes, actually SCREAMING) bloody murder from their pulpits about Madelyn Murray O'Hair...in the 70's, nearly a decade after she won her case. And there were some teachers in the schools I attended who routinely ignored the ruling. There was one teacher who routinely read us Bible stories as well.
Break the law for Jesus, I guess.
The laws don’t apply to Christians, despite Jesus SPECIFICALLY telling them the opposite
I think the demise of public schools will bring the demise of America the less we rely on a good education, the more they will have to rely on aggression. Children brainwashing to believing religious nonsense will have two marks against them. They will lack empathy because they’ve been taught to accept atrocities as normal (burning people alive for example) and their ability to be creative will be limited after forcing them to believe nonsense like creationism.
So as America fails to compete in the world it would rely more on its military might. Not a good combination.
Visions of this kind of future makes me want to overindulge in margaritas.
I find any reason to overindulge is good enough.
Just up until the point when the grand high profit realizes that they will never be able to conquer the world to impose their barbarism on the planet and start launching nukes to bring that end of days they so lust for.
Can confirm. My husband votes, but he just does not pay attention to what is going on in this country. He's busy doing other things and just is not that plugged in to politics. I have been trying to explain things to him for years. I think I might be making some progress. He asks a lot more questions than he used to.
That will be the least of the problems and chaos The Orange One will enable.
Dictatorforadayshow.com
Ya okay six days to create everything then God rested on the 7th day. How many people were actually there at the Garden of Eden? God, Adam and Eve Crowley in snake form and Aziraphale from Good Omens. Sounds extremely silly to me. Thousands of years before the first written word. (I think Neil Gaiman was there too)
EVOLUTION. EVOLUTION!!!!
It’s even funnier when they tell you that the Bible is a “first hand account” of the creation of the universe.
Then you ask them if there was a human to witness the creation of the first human, and they’ll tell you it was a second-hand account.
Yup. Every religion has their own creation story because they couldn't explain how the Universe or the Earth came to be. First hand account though? Heavy sigh. Creation stories are just that - stories.
OT: "An estimated 22% of adults in the U.S., and 14% of children, eligible for the COVID vaccines got their 2023-2024 booster."
https://sanantonioreport.org/university-health-will-temporarily-pause-covid-vaccinations-until-updated-vaccines-arrive/
Edit: I guess after work, I'm going to have to go get dressed and get some coconut rum. I'm out.
So you "work all night on a drink of rum".
https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000305207886-kal5xw-t500x500.jpg
Because every time I'm near the liquor store I'd have to leave it in the Texas sun for several hours before I got home, and I haven't *needed* it enough to make a special trip.
No liquor stores in Antonio deliver?
For double the price.
"They believe the Bible should supersede the Constitution when it comes to laws they don’t like. And as we’ve seen with reproductive rights, vaccine mandates, public school curricula, and more, the biblical literalists are eager to impose their beliefs on the vast majority of Americans who don’t share their faith, much less an extremist interpretation of their holy book." Would the Biblical literalists out there please show the rest of us where the good book proscribes abortion, vaccine mandates, and public school curricula. It's not enough that you cannot prove the existence of your deity. You somehow believe that an ancient text is a guide for modern living.
Monument tp prayer...
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/452951283_1426251754770234_7778254794459585622_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=xhYrabhtGXYQ7kNvgEyEIgm&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AYC5ymhEffB2_baeQhRyoj241Hcge_dirUnGhR1TWWLYNQ&oe=66A9BA5E
The Nazis were Christians and God listened to THEIR prayers about Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and anyone else the Nazis deemed 'subhuman.'
That god always sides with power.
Of course, Might makes Right. That's how you justify drowning the world and killing the firstborn of Egypt.
Perhaps I'm far behind others, and I don't have any research ready at hand, but I'm beginning to think that many or even most Young Earth Creationists believe what they do because they use the part of their mind/brain that processes what is socially proper, moral, and good, rather than the part of their mind/brain that processes what is logical, reasonable, rational, and sensible.
So they believe it because doing so is a reflection on THEM and their character, rather than a reflection on the empirical facts and evidence.
That might explain why it's so scary to them to consider changing their beliefs about this issue.
There is no demonstrable evidence that they are able to distinguish what is “socially proper, moral, and good”, so your theory falls apart there..
You may be right. Some of their awful behaviors support your point, so perhaps I should have worded my statement, "...processes what they THINK is socially proper, moral, and good...," or "...what they CONSIDER TO BE socially proper, moral, and good..," since to people with black belts in hypocrisy, metaethics are subjective in the extreme.