So, the Johnsons don't just have a marriage; they have a SUPER-marriage! Whoop-whoop. I am all at once reminded of a hippie marriage that was performed back during the "Summer of Love" in the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco. "As long as you both can dig it, you're married," said the officiant, and that was it. Frankly, I find the latter to be far more realistic and understanding of human nature. The insistence that "covenant marriage" wasn't popular because people weren't aware of it is a load of meadow muffins, plain and simple. A regular marriage is hard enough to keep working as it is, never mind adding all the unnecessary bells and whistles that the Johnsons decided that they wanted.
If it works for them, fine. Frankly, their pushing it on others sounds to me like one more vector of pushing their religion as well, and for the Speaker of the House, I find that to be more than a little inappropriate. Keep your bullshit to yourself, Mikey. You MIGHT make more friends that way.
It's hard to see what the state's interests are when it comes to forcing people to remain in a marriage when two people no longer want to be together. The lack of any viable interests on the part of government was what no-fault divorce was all about. The divorce rate in other eras may have been lower, but that doesn't mean they were always happy unions. People's options were fewer, and countless people stayed loveless marriages, because it was just too difficult to get out of them. It should be noted, the Bible-belt South has some of the highest divorce rates in the country.
“And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”
The divorce court judge in Reno laughs at your puny Louisiana covenant marriage.
43 years of marriage under my belt (to the same guy, continuously) and I strongly object to anything other than no-fault divorce. Husband and I remained supportive and compatible; we grew older in parallel, compatible ways. That simply doesn't happen for everyone, and sometimes, for the sake of one or both spouse(s) psyche(s), a marriage needs to end. Children deserve to grow up in one or two homes where the atmosphere isn't one of utter tension. No-fault marriage honors the fragility but also the growth of humans, and that's something we need to do.
These "covenant marriages" sound like the one my great-grandmother was trapped in--in 1881. She was a 24-year-old immigrant, a widow with two small children (my grandfather was 4 months old when his father died). Connecticut had very strict rules about what reasons were valid for wanting a divorce and which were not. Physical abuse/domestic violence fell into the latter category. My great-grandma was trapped in that marriage until her abusive husband abandoned her and the two toddlers, or (as the divorce decree put it) "departed for parts unknown." She was finally able to get a divorce after he'd been gone for over two years. When I wrote to request a copy of the divorce decree, about 15 years ago, her decree started on one page and continued on the next. Before and after her decree were those of two other women, whose cases were identical to hers, except for the names of the parties involved. So we keep hearing that the current RWNJs want to return us to some imagined perfect past--yeah, like the one my great-grandmother lived in, 140+ years ago.
Awhile back, I came across a factoid that said 70% of divorces are intimated by women. They don't want their lil' wimin to be able to get away from them.
The whole 'Til Death do Us Part' vow is ridiculous. When two people decide to get married, they do not become 'one' as Christians believe. They are still two separate people that have their own likes, dislikes, whether that be foods they like, movies and television shows they watch, or, and this was big in my relationship with my ex wife, sexual likes and dislikes. Of course as a good Christians, we were not allowed to explore that aspect of our relationship until we made it legal. Of course, it was a complete disaster. We ended our horrible marriage after fifteen years. It should have ended after six months, to be honest, but, I was training for Ministry, and we were told, as a couple, that the Bible forbids divorce, and, any chance of ministry would be ruined. It was all for nothing. I eventually left the Christian faith and am now an atheist. I wasted 25 years of my life believing nonsense.
Back in the early-mid 1980's, after I got 'Saved!' in October of 1983 at a Billy Graham Crusade in Vancouver, BC, I started attending a small Baptist Church (not IFB). I will never forget sitting in the sanctuary after one Sunday Evening service (yes, they were a thing back then!). I was sitting in the row of chairs ahead of the Pastor, his wife, and a then young lady, and I overheard the conversation. She was talking about her extremely abusive husband, who not only verbally abused he, but physically abused her, and asking about leaving him. I will never ever forget the Pastor's response. He said that he Bible strictly forbids divorce except in cases of marital infidelity. Cheating. Even though this asshole was beating his wife, she could not divorce him! She could separate herself from him until he 'came around' and re-dedicated his whole life to Christ, but she could not divorce him. The Pastor further stated that she was to be a witness of Christ's love to her husband, and that love would result in him being truly saved.'
I sang in a Youth Choir with this woman. Her husband would always show up at practices. One day I happened to catch him at a local pharmacy at the magazine rack that was located near the front cash register. The cashier on this day happened to be a young woman, maybe 21 or 22, who also happened to be a member of the same youth choir. You can already guess where this is going, can't you? This guy had taken one of the 'top rack' magazines - a porn mag, and was looking through it, while leering at this young woman with the most disgusting smile on his face.
Jump ahead to today, some 40 years later. This pig and his wife are still together and now live in the same seniors complex as I live in. He is still creepy as hell, and she looks more miserable than ever. Neighbours next to them and above them are constantly reporting screaming matches and loud thuds and bangs from their apartment. I have never ever seen her alone in the grocery store, or anywhere else without this awful man. (They also allegedly had two daughters removed from their home at some point.) I now think about how this poor woman's life could have been so much better today if she had only decided for herself to take the obvious right course of action instead of listening to some dim witted pastor?
How many lives have been totally destroyed by a belief in the so called Biblical Sanctity of marriage? I know mine was. It has been almost twenty years to the day since my marriage ended (Nov. 11, 2003). I have not had a single relationship since because my trust in people has been totally destroyed. I am rapidly approaching sixty years old, and instead of dying surrounded by a loving family, children and grandchildren, I fear I will die alone. I absolutely hate the Bible and everything it has to say about anything in regards to human relationships.
I’m married in NC. We are required to separate for a year, living in separate residences, before divorce can happen. That’s if you have property to divide or kids to sort out. We also have an alienation of affection law that lets a person sue anyone they believe influenced their spouse to seek to divorce them. It’s a remnant from back when women were property and therefore financial investments that men wanted to be able to recoup. And, traditionally, it’s the wives who have a tougher time being able to leave a bad situation, especially when there are kids. They put careers on hold to be the primary caretakers of the kids while the husbands go further their careers. It’s not cheap to suddenly find a separate residence and extra space for the kids while paying lawyers to help sort out a year of formal separation and then divorce. Men leave as well. And they can return just long enough to disqualify any timetable requirement for abandonment or separation, especially when wives are left in financial desperation with kids depending on them for survival. In short, while these laws are no longer gender-specific, they still heavily favor and enable abusive men to be real motherfuckers. It’s no coincidence that Christian Nationalist Nazis promote them, given how unfriendly their religious practices are for women.
Arkansas has had this option since 2001? I have performed at least 100 weddings since then, and I had no idea this was an option. Nobody has ever requested it. I would have thought twice before I signed it.
According to Jesus, I made my wife commit adultery when I married her, since she was a divorced woman. Our daughter would be a bastard by those standards. I always had to cherry pick around those scriptures ...
(More than anything, it was really just a way for conservative Christians to send a message to the country that their marriages were stronger than everyone else’s.)
No, performative bullshit was only part of it.
The more important part was using the law to force someone to stay with you even if you were being a horrible person. Acting like a sexist pig won't necessarily meet the legal definition of abuse, so they have to put up with you. And if they've acted like a "good" little Evangelical woman, they won't be able to support themselves and their children without alimony, so leaving becomes much more difficult.
So many things wrong with this, starting with the whole idea of divorce even being a possibility in a marriage for Christians, whatever you call that marriage. The Bible is quite clear on this subject: God hates divorce, no divorce except for adultery, and no divorce at all. So why are we talking about divorce for Christians
But there's also a very subtle thing wrong with us. No divorce except for adultery. I thought these were Christians? No morality without God, and God says no to adultery. It even made it into the big 10, unlike masturbation, homosexuality, and Furrys. So Christians are admitting that even the promises they make before their worthless God are is worthless as that worthless God is. You can't fix this problem just by saying that "everyone sins", even though that's exactly how they always try to fix the problems with Christian morality.
So, one more time, all this talk of covenant marriage is simply another way to talk about controlling peoples personal lives by the self appointed guardians of morality.
“The idea, meant to strengthen marriage, actually makes it harder to leave a bad one”
That’s the point, especially as it relates to women. No fault divorce is driven by women, they are the most common instigators of no fault divorce and before they were available, women were left to the whims of the men. Only very extreme cases of abuse or abandonment (similar to the covenant marriage contract) were women even heard regarding divorce, and often required a male member of the family to speak for her since women weren’t allowed to have a voice in legal matters for most of history.
“Johnson says his covenant marriage worked because his wife has “stayed with me this whole time.””
Proof that this is about giving, or rather taking away, women agency in matters of marriage.
“Given all the ways Republicans have tried to control marriage over the years, opposing interracial marriage, refusing to protect same-sex marriage, allowing child marriage, making it harder to get divorced would be right up their alley.”
Their deep chested defense of child marriage is another clue to their motivations. Snag wives while they’re young, keep them uneducated, unskilled, and at home.
Let me remind you that there are well known Republicans and right wing media personalities that are actively working to eliminate no fault divorce because it provides their wives agency enough to leave them now they’ve shown their abusive stripes. The current scandal being Steven Crowder (the change my mind meme guy) on camera being abusive to his pregnant wife who left him around the time she had his twins. But he’s got a few politicians and other personalities backing up his agenda.
Don’t be fooled, the covenant marriage shit is religious men protecting their misogynist power over the women of the country. Just because Kelley is “happy” in her marriage can mean she’s being abused into silence, or the misogyny is coming from inside the house, with a small chance that she’s just happy being the doormat for a powerful man.
"You can only divorce me if you catch me cheating or I beat the crap out of you" is not a marriage vow I would be willing to take.
So, the Johnsons don't just have a marriage; they have a SUPER-marriage! Whoop-whoop. I am all at once reminded of a hippie marriage that was performed back during the "Summer of Love" in the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco. "As long as you both can dig it, you're married," said the officiant, and that was it. Frankly, I find the latter to be far more realistic and understanding of human nature. The insistence that "covenant marriage" wasn't popular because people weren't aware of it is a load of meadow muffins, plain and simple. A regular marriage is hard enough to keep working as it is, never mind adding all the unnecessary bells and whistles that the Johnsons decided that they wanted.
If it works for them, fine. Frankly, their pushing it on others sounds to me like one more vector of pushing their religion as well, and for the Speaker of the House, I find that to be more than a little inappropriate. Keep your bullshit to yourself, Mikey. You MIGHT make more friends that way.
It's hard to see what the state's interests are when it comes to forcing people to remain in a marriage when two people no longer want to be together. The lack of any viable interests on the part of government was what no-fault divorce was all about. The divorce rate in other eras may have been lower, but that doesn't mean they were always happy unions. People's options were fewer, and countless people stayed loveless marriages, because it was just too difficult to get out of them. It should be noted, the Bible-belt South has some of the highest divorce rates in the country.
“And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”
The divorce court judge in Reno laughs at your puny Louisiana covenant marriage.
43 years of marriage under my belt (to the same guy, continuously) and I strongly object to anything other than no-fault divorce. Husband and I remained supportive and compatible; we grew older in parallel, compatible ways. That simply doesn't happen for everyone, and sometimes, for the sake of one or both spouse(s) psyche(s), a marriage needs to end. Children deserve to grow up in one or two homes where the atmosphere isn't one of utter tension. No-fault marriage honors the fragility but also the growth of humans, and that's something we need to do.
These "covenant marriages" sound like the one my great-grandmother was trapped in--in 1881. She was a 24-year-old immigrant, a widow with two small children (my grandfather was 4 months old when his father died). Connecticut had very strict rules about what reasons were valid for wanting a divorce and which were not. Physical abuse/domestic violence fell into the latter category. My great-grandma was trapped in that marriage until her abusive husband abandoned her and the two toddlers, or (as the divorce decree put it) "departed for parts unknown." She was finally able to get a divorce after he'd been gone for over two years. When I wrote to request a copy of the divorce decree, about 15 years ago, her decree started on one page and continued on the next. Before and after her decree were those of two other women, whose cases were identical to hers, except for the names of the parties involved. So we keep hearing that the current RWNJs want to return us to some imagined perfect past--yeah, like the one my great-grandmother lived in, 140+ years ago.
Awhile back, I came across a factoid that said 70% of divorces are intimated by women. They don't want their lil' wimin to be able to get away from them.
The whole 'Til Death do Us Part' vow is ridiculous. When two people decide to get married, they do not become 'one' as Christians believe. They are still two separate people that have their own likes, dislikes, whether that be foods they like, movies and television shows they watch, or, and this was big in my relationship with my ex wife, sexual likes and dislikes. Of course as a good Christians, we were not allowed to explore that aspect of our relationship until we made it legal. Of course, it was a complete disaster. We ended our horrible marriage after fifteen years. It should have ended after six months, to be honest, but, I was training for Ministry, and we were told, as a couple, that the Bible forbids divorce, and, any chance of ministry would be ruined. It was all for nothing. I eventually left the Christian faith and am now an atheist. I wasted 25 years of my life believing nonsense.
Back in the early-mid 1980's, after I got 'Saved!' in October of 1983 at a Billy Graham Crusade in Vancouver, BC, I started attending a small Baptist Church (not IFB). I will never forget sitting in the sanctuary after one Sunday Evening service (yes, they were a thing back then!). I was sitting in the row of chairs ahead of the Pastor, his wife, and a then young lady, and I overheard the conversation. She was talking about her extremely abusive husband, who not only verbally abused he, but physically abused her, and asking about leaving him. I will never ever forget the Pastor's response. He said that he Bible strictly forbids divorce except in cases of marital infidelity. Cheating. Even though this asshole was beating his wife, she could not divorce him! She could separate herself from him until he 'came around' and re-dedicated his whole life to Christ, but she could not divorce him. The Pastor further stated that she was to be a witness of Christ's love to her husband, and that love would result in him being truly saved.'
I sang in a Youth Choir with this woman. Her husband would always show up at practices. One day I happened to catch him at a local pharmacy at the magazine rack that was located near the front cash register. The cashier on this day happened to be a young woman, maybe 21 or 22, who also happened to be a member of the same youth choir. You can already guess where this is going, can't you? This guy had taken one of the 'top rack' magazines - a porn mag, and was looking through it, while leering at this young woman with the most disgusting smile on his face.
Jump ahead to today, some 40 years later. This pig and his wife are still together and now live in the same seniors complex as I live in. He is still creepy as hell, and she looks more miserable than ever. Neighbours next to them and above them are constantly reporting screaming matches and loud thuds and bangs from their apartment. I have never ever seen her alone in the grocery store, or anywhere else without this awful man. (They also allegedly had two daughters removed from their home at some point.) I now think about how this poor woman's life could have been so much better today if she had only decided for herself to take the obvious right course of action instead of listening to some dim witted pastor?
How many lives have been totally destroyed by a belief in the so called Biblical Sanctity of marriage? I know mine was. It has been almost twenty years to the day since my marriage ended (Nov. 11, 2003). I have not had a single relationship since because my trust in people has been totally destroyed. I am rapidly approaching sixty years old, and instead of dying surrounded by a loving family, children and grandchildren, I fear I will die alone. I absolutely hate the Bible and everything it has to say about anything in regards to human relationships.
I’m married in NC. We are required to separate for a year, living in separate residences, before divorce can happen. That’s if you have property to divide or kids to sort out. We also have an alienation of affection law that lets a person sue anyone they believe influenced their spouse to seek to divorce them. It’s a remnant from back when women were property and therefore financial investments that men wanted to be able to recoup. And, traditionally, it’s the wives who have a tougher time being able to leave a bad situation, especially when there are kids. They put careers on hold to be the primary caretakers of the kids while the husbands go further their careers. It’s not cheap to suddenly find a separate residence and extra space for the kids while paying lawyers to help sort out a year of formal separation and then divorce. Men leave as well. And they can return just long enough to disqualify any timetable requirement for abandonment or separation, especially when wives are left in financial desperation with kids depending on them for survival. In short, while these laws are no longer gender-specific, they still heavily favor and enable abusive men to be real motherfuckers. It’s no coincidence that Christian Nationalist Nazis promote them, given how unfriendly their religious practices are for women.
One more avenue to control women for the fundie crowd.
Arkansas has had this option since 2001? I have performed at least 100 weddings since then, and I had no idea this was an option. Nobody has ever requested it. I would have thought twice before I signed it.
According to Jesus, I made my wife commit adultery when I married her, since she was a divorced woman. Our daughter would be a bastard by those standards. I always had to cherry pick around those scriptures ...
I said, what does God need with a prenup anyway?
Jim!
Look Bones, this galaxy is full of green skinned beauties...and Spock isn't going to seduce any of them, soooo...
It's time that these puritanical laws should be confined to the bin, along with the book that inspired them.
(More than anything, it was really just a way for conservative Christians to send a message to the country that their marriages were stronger than everyone else’s.)
No, performative bullshit was only part of it.
The more important part was using the law to force someone to stay with you even if you were being a horrible person. Acting like a sexist pig won't necessarily meet the legal definition of abuse, so they have to put up with you. And if they've acted like a "good" little Evangelical woman, they won't be able to support themselves and their children without alimony, so leaving becomes much more difficult.
So many things wrong with this, starting with the whole idea of divorce even being a possibility in a marriage for Christians, whatever you call that marriage. The Bible is quite clear on this subject: God hates divorce, no divorce except for adultery, and no divorce at all. So why are we talking about divorce for Christians
But there's also a very subtle thing wrong with us. No divorce except for adultery. I thought these were Christians? No morality without God, and God says no to adultery. It even made it into the big 10, unlike masturbation, homosexuality, and Furrys. So Christians are admitting that even the promises they make before their worthless God are is worthless as that worthless God is. You can't fix this problem just by saying that "everyone sins", even though that's exactly how they always try to fix the problems with Christian morality.
So, one more time, all this talk of covenant marriage is simply another way to talk about controlling peoples personal lives by the self appointed guardians of morality.
Is there even one thing we've seen about Johnson that isn't horrible? I sure as fuck can't think of any.
“The idea, meant to strengthen marriage, actually makes it harder to leave a bad one”
That’s the point, especially as it relates to women. No fault divorce is driven by women, they are the most common instigators of no fault divorce and before they were available, women were left to the whims of the men. Only very extreme cases of abuse or abandonment (similar to the covenant marriage contract) were women even heard regarding divorce, and often required a male member of the family to speak for her since women weren’t allowed to have a voice in legal matters for most of history.
“Johnson says his covenant marriage worked because his wife has “stayed with me this whole time.””
Proof that this is about giving, or rather taking away, women agency in matters of marriage.
“Given all the ways Republicans have tried to control marriage over the years, opposing interracial marriage, refusing to protect same-sex marriage, allowing child marriage, making it harder to get divorced would be right up their alley.”
Their deep chested defense of child marriage is another clue to their motivations. Snag wives while they’re young, keep them uneducated, unskilled, and at home.
Let me remind you that there are well known Republicans and right wing media personalities that are actively working to eliminate no fault divorce because it provides their wives agency enough to leave them now they’ve shown their abusive stripes. The current scandal being Steven Crowder (the change my mind meme guy) on camera being abusive to his pregnant wife who left him around the time she had his twins. But he’s got a few politicians and other personalities backing up his agenda.
Don’t be fooled, the covenant marriage shit is religious men protecting their misogynist power over the women of the country. Just because Kelley is “happy” in her marriage can mean she’s being abused into silence, or the misogyny is coming from inside the house, with a small chance that she’s just happy being the doormat for a powerful man.