Roughly 10 years ago, I wrote a blog, commenting on an NPR show I heard, featuring one John S. Dickerson and his then-new book, The Great Evangelical Recession. They KNEW about this a decade ago, and after all this time, it seems to me as though they still can't bring themselves to acknowledge why they continue to lose ground. Back then I opined that it was a combination of the impact of the internet and 9/11 which were the primary anti-agents to their cabal. I stand by that opinion. Their continued irrationality has had its pants pulled down to their ankles by the internet, by commenters such as Aron Ra, Matt Dillahunty, Seth Andrews, and many, many others. The message these and other observers have made resonate with those for whom religious belief has begun to ring false in their ears, never mind to those of the Millennials and Gen-X, many of whom never bought into religion's snake oil to begin with.
And evangelicalism STILL can't admit that. And what will likely happen is that those who have been dissuaded will go their own way, leaving the True Believers and the radicals and the Christian Nationalists, whose aberrant behavior will further disgust and resultingly disaffiliate onlookers from a belief system which not only no longer works, but never did in the first place.
For sure the internet has sped up long-term trends in secularization and a more critical eye towards the claims of theology.
Also for sure Covid showed a lot of people they can live fine and socially fulfilled without their church life.
But there has also been a true, substantive change in society's values around GLBTQ+ people, starting with Biden's off-script, on-air mention of gay marriage in 2012. And the SBC, RCC, and many other churches have rejected that change. So a lot of the loss is IMO due to a true values difference between these church doctrines and most of their congregants where there wasn't one 10-15 years ago. Added to that, the SBC has actually moved *right* from where it was 10-15 years ago. '80s, 90s, even early 2000s there just wasn't any mainstream conservative support for things like child corporal punishment, criminalizing birth control, or making it harder to vote. No church talked about being pro-gun. These were just not things on the religious radar. And of course these churches could still claim to value a POTUS candidates' character first and foremost. So you could be mostly socially liberal in the SBC in the 90s or even up to about 2008. There were some disagreements (abortion being the big one), but if you held your nose on that one, there weren't many other ways in which the SBC was outside the mainstream. Now, that's just not possible. There are disagreements at just about every turn. You can't fit in the SBC as a social liberal or even moderate; we and they are just very different.
Which is a long way of saying internet or no, covid or no, SBC is in trouble because they are more out of step with society than they ever have been in the past.
The mention of 9/11 made me remember something I hadn't thought of in years, and I think you might be right that it had some impact on the SBC.
I believe it was the very next day after the attacks, but at least withing a day or two. I was standing at a ledge in the office looking through the latest newspapers while the television on the far wall reported minute-by-minute updates. People were sort of hovering around it as if mesmerized. I remember thinking about how it was like moths drawn to a candle - definitely everyone was still in a state of massive shock. There were quiet conversations, even a few tears. Government officials of every stripe had appeared onscreen and been interviewed, when Franklin Graham appeared. At first, I thought he might say something about thoughts and prayers, but instead he pontificated about the "larger tragedy" - "how many of those thousands of people who died were ready to meet Jesus?"
For a second or two, one could have heard a pin drop, then a voice in the back yelled, "that goddamn sick son of a bitch!" and angry conversation buzzed everywhere. Later that day I told some friends about it. Most of them had either seen or heard about Graham's PR stunt and had some very choice words to say about it. While many christians undoubtedly were nodding along in agreement, those words pissed off a good many people that I saw.
I agree that the SBC being totally out of step with an evolving society is probably the biggest factor in their decline, with the internet being crucial in exposing its most egregious hypocrisies, and the 9/11 attacks and the Chrisitan rightwing response to it peeled back yet another layer of that rotten onion. There were also other religious right wing nutters (Pat Robertson, et al) who drew more fire and commanded more media attention for their mouth-spoutings, but the Franklin Graham moment was the only one I saw with a group of people and observe their immediate reaction.
This makes the SBC more dangerous in the short term, and they have enough positions of power to cause a lot of damage while they are in their death throes. This is why we are seeing more conservative school boards and more local races with super religious candidates. They’re fighting by trying to force their way into our and our children’s lives.
That’s what I was saying yesterday about the school board. People like comfort, so they don’t push back until it becomes uncomfortable. It is extremely uncomfortable right now in many ways in every corner.
Reich is ensconced in uber-liberal Berkeley, CA and very much out of touch with reality in 'murica. With Biden announcing intent to run for re-election and Trump/DeSantis getting into gear with solid support from Republicans, things couldn't look more grim for progressive change.
An interesting life so far. Among many other things, I have seen...
Sputnik, the first satellite flying over L.A., the first commercial jet airlines, the first men in space, the first men on the Moon, the first color TV broadcasts, the worldwide eradication of smallpox, the abolition of apartheid in South Africa, the legalization of same-sex marriages in many countries and finally in the U.S., the effective treatment of AIDS,...
and if I keep my health up and look both ways crossing the street, I might see, for all intents and purposes, the extinction of the Southern Baptist Convention.
We all need things to look forward to. Personally, I'm hoping to have sex with Anne Hathaway, although I probably stand about as much chance to do that as anyone has to see the SBC completely gone. I think severely truncated would do me. Although as others have pointed out, that leaves a smaller church full of nutty fanatics – dangerous.
"… the SBC has declined by 1.5 million members since 2018, and by more than 3 million members since 2006. The COVID-19 pandemic played a role in the downturn, as did the reality that as older members die off, there are fewer young people to replace them.
Tremendous. Couldn't happen to a nicer org. I wish it was possible to get accurate numbers on the Mormons (I was raised one so there's a special chamber in my blackened heart for them) but considering they count tons of people who don't want to be members anymore it's not really gonna happen.
They actually really don't count those, if they did then by this point they would have more members than there are people. I don't think any religion counts dead members as "members".
Ah. So what you're telling me is that this years' decline wasn't as steep as it looks, because last year's numbers were illegitimately inflated with dead people and no-shows?
That's fine. I'll accept it. And I will predict that 2024's decline will not be as steep as it looks because the 2023 numbers also contain dead people and no-shows. :)
It’s the last decade or so numbers that were inflated. But we knew that already because when has a religion ever been honest about the number of followers they truly have.
"All our numbers since 1970 have been inflated and subject to math errors. But we've fixed them now! The corrected numbers show the SBC has been on a slow but steady increase every year since at least 1950!"
"Russia is floating a plan to build a village for conservative Americans who want to move to a 'Christian country' and are tired of liberal ideology in the US"
So the GQP "isn't quite ready" to expel George Santos just yet. Why? Isn't this the same GQP that showed no hesitation in ousting 2 black Democrats over nothing?
Because Santos is not guilty, this is a witch hunt brought on by woke drag queens. The demoncrats were guilty of breaking decorum, we saw their crimes with our own eyes.
Of course Republicans aren't ready to give up on George Santos. Republicans are almost entirely living in lies, and George Santos is only second to Donald Trump in the level of his mendacity.
Actually it's less Republicans than it is MAGA. Republicans have faded to the point where they're nearly a non-entity and MAGA has all but taken their place. And now all at once I'm reminded of that speech that Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy gave about how the fight for the soul of our country can't be between our two great political parties, because we've lost one of them.
That is a huge gap between worship attendance and SBC membership. Yes there is a smaller number that attends 'small groups' but I suspect those are almost entirely included in the worship attendance circle. The nine and a half billion who claim to be Southern Baptist, yet don't go to worship service are not following the tenets of their religion. So I have to ask what other parts of their religion do they deem to be unnecessary?
Are they not going to church because the worship leader is pushing a right wing agenda? Are they not going because they are questioning their own grasp on reality? Or are they just not going because life is too short to spend it at church?
The pandemic likely made some of them realize they don't need to go to church or tithe but many are likely still rabid, white nationalists or they wouldn't have become SBC members in the first place. They don't need to go to church to foment hate, they can just vote republican.
Life IS too short to spend in church. It was my major motivation at age 5 and I knew the guy on the pulpit was claiming shit that even some of kids knew couldn’t be true. We knew when people died, they stayed dead, even at the age of 5.
I'm in the Dallas area and the nextdoor website is screaming with religious fanatics from this area with regard to the mall shooting that happened about a week ago. I'm pleasantly surprised at the number of older people who are starting to think that maybe we need to do a little something about guns. BUT there are a TON of older/younger christians with their outrageously ignorant thoughts about god in relation to this . Some feel that 'god" was at work in the hands of the cop who was able to-early on-kill the shooter. When I responded to one posting with a "well if god was there he should be arrested and jailed for his negligence" it was SCANDALOUS. You could almost hear the "Harumph" right thru the computer. A number of others were just so complimentary to god for all that he did at the site of the shooting. When I asked what he did there was no response-strange huh? A number of people seemed to just ignore my questions and state that their god is a good god and they will never forsake their god. Their ignorance is beyond appalling. One post that really pissed me off was the one that claims that all these shooters are "leftists". Those bstards are lucky they aren't in my presence when they say that. There would be a whole nother level of shooter. I used to think that I would flirt with you filthy atheists and your philosophy but would end up back on the christian side. Now I know that could NEVER happen. They are too fkng ignorant.
Sure it’s leftists doing all the shooting. Even when the right is practically begging for some of the shooters to come marry their daughters (Kyle Rittenhouse) after the right literally made new rules to get them off for murder. Abbott is ready to pardon a shooter because he shot a leftist at a protest for left issues. So many of the school and mass shooters since, at least, Columbine were avowed right wing extremists, with manifestos that mirror famous right wing talking heads, or GOP platforms and Nazi sloganeering. But the problem is the Christians you talk about who claim this, see themselves as the good guys and anyone who does anything bad can’t possibly be on their side (even if they are in agreement on certain deplorable ideas) they must be no true Christian/Republican/right winger. It’s a result of cognitive dissonance, it’s easier to deny the reality of their position leading to this violence than it is to hold the idea that they’re good while also acknowledging the violence is their position.
"A number of people seemed to just ignore my questions and state that their god is a good god and they will never forsake their god. Their ignorance is beyond appalling."
I so hate this. Stupid idiots who think God is wonderful and the Bible is true just because THEY are doing well. Again today I reminded one of them that many Christians are starving to death. Many Christians don't have good clothes and/or shoes, or the ability to get proper medical treatments, etc. Christians died from Covid, etc.
Yet they keep spouting those "don't worry, be happy," verses and skip blissfully along. When confronted with the truth, you're lying, those people really aren't Christians, and they don't care.
You just want to shake the nonsense out of them, to force them to see. Unfortunately, the odds are strong that they never will.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?....
Many of these christians DON'T LIVE IN THIS WORLD. How often have you heard them say-this is not my home-my home is up yonder. They are the ultimate traitors. The are not only traitors to this country-they are traitors to the world as a whole. The ones who are not well off-they often don't expect much. They are waiting for their heavenly reward.
"... Satan want you to worry about things. We're about eating. What about clothing but don't worry about Christ. You want to worry about the things of this world ..." punctuation added where needed.
Excuse me, but I like having a roof over my head, clothes to wear, decent food to eat, etc. I'm in a precarious situation right now, but who isn't? Don't tell me to expect help when there is so much evidence otherwise.
Something I'm learning is that the fkn christians HATE it when you quote an appropriate bible phrase to them. I had one beach who posted that the shooter was evil-agreed-and that "free will" accounts for why this happened under Jebus' watch. I asked her if it was Jebus' plan for the free will of the killer to override the free will of the innocents who were killed. When I posted the verses from Isiah where god says "that he created evil" I could almost hear the explosion. Of course the old "out of context" came up PDQ and her statement that I had "twisted the words. Goddamn these people are vile.
As someone who attended SBC services by force for the first 20-ish years of their life, this honestly comes as the expected result of SBC positions on any number of political issues. Sure, abortion is one of them, but the truth about the SBC is that they really are every bit as misogynistic as you think they are; and that's just the tip of the iceberg for their unpopular and/or morally bankrupt conservative political positions. Their rhetoric, when examined carefully, rarely reflects things like compassion, forgiveness, or generosity, they always seem to be too busy condemning someone for some imaginary offense - like being both alive and gay at the same time.
If anything, I'm disappointed that the drop isn't far steeper. I keep hoping that more people will recover from the illness we call religion and wake up to the way it's poisoning society against itself, but it looks like the wait isn't over yet.
Yeah, some of them can see the effects of their sheep finding out that all gods are only man-made through websites like godisimaginary dot com and apps like Chrestus.
Internet resources were where I first learned about the utter lack of real-world evidence that Jesus ever existed, McDowell's "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" to the contrary.
BTW has anyone here ever managed to slog through that mass of bogged-down, foot-noted, legalistic, jargon-riddled nonsense? I tried many times, but that crap was just unreadable. I would read a page two and three times and not be able to make heads or tails out of it. I would think if you were trying to make an argument to convince people, you would at least make it readable and understandable.
Young people have little use for the SBC's intolerance, and are deserting the church in droves. Good for them. In many ways, the SBC represents what humanity has had to overcome to progress. Given a free hand, they would turn back the clock on women's rights a hundred years or more, and kids today get that.
One small correction. They have turned back the clock on women’s human rights by a hundred years. Many of the trigger laws in the states were a hundred years old. I know Wisconsin’s was. And the boondoggle over mifepristone in the courts have had an effect on many other reproductive healthcare options. They don’t have to repeal our rights to work, bank, make major purchases or vote to keep us from being able to effectively do these things. They just need to keep us tied down to too many children.
Roughly 10 years ago, I wrote a blog, commenting on an NPR show I heard, featuring one John S. Dickerson and his then-new book, The Great Evangelical Recession. They KNEW about this a decade ago, and after all this time, it seems to me as though they still can't bring themselves to acknowledge why they continue to lose ground. Back then I opined that it was a combination of the impact of the internet and 9/11 which were the primary anti-agents to their cabal. I stand by that opinion. Their continued irrationality has had its pants pulled down to their ankles by the internet, by commenters such as Aron Ra, Matt Dillahunty, Seth Andrews, and many, many others. The message these and other observers have made resonate with those for whom religious belief has begun to ring false in their ears, never mind to those of the Millennials and Gen-X, many of whom never bought into religion's snake oil to begin with.
And evangelicalism STILL can't admit that. And what will likely happen is that those who have been dissuaded will go their own way, leaving the True Believers and the radicals and the Christian Nationalists, whose aberrant behavior will further disgust and resultingly disaffiliate onlookers from a belief system which not only no longer works, but never did in the first place.
For sure the internet has sped up long-term trends in secularization and a more critical eye towards the claims of theology.
Also for sure Covid showed a lot of people they can live fine and socially fulfilled without their church life.
But there has also been a true, substantive change in society's values around GLBTQ+ people, starting with Biden's off-script, on-air mention of gay marriage in 2012. And the SBC, RCC, and many other churches have rejected that change. So a lot of the loss is IMO due to a true values difference between these church doctrines and most of their congregants where there wasn't one 10-15 years ago. Added to that, the SBC has actually moved *right* from where it was 10-15 years ago. '80s, 90s, even early 2000s there just wasn't any mainstream conservative support for things like child corporal punishment, criminalizing birth control, or making it harder to vote. No church talked about being pro-gun. These were just not things on the religious radar. And of course these churches could still claim to value a POTUS candidates' character first and foremost. So you could be mostly socially liberal in the SBC in the 90s or even up to about 2008. There were some disagreements (abortion being the big one), but if you held your nose on that one, there weren't many other ways in which the SBC was outside the mainstream. Now, that's just not possible. There are disagreements at just about every turn. You can't fit in the SBC as a social liberal or even moderate; we and they are just very different.
Which is a long way of saying internet or no, covid or no, SBC is in trouble because they are more out of step with society than they ever have been in the past.
Well put.
The mention of 9/11 made me remember something I hadn't thought of in years, and I think you might be right that it had some impact on the SBC.
I believe it was the very next day after the attacks, but at least withing a day or two. I was standing at a ledge in the office looking through the latest newspapers while the television on the far wall reported minute-by-minute updates. People were sort of hovering around it as if mesmerized. I remember thinking about how it was like moths drawn to a candle - definitely everyone was still in a state of massive shock. There were quiet conversations, even a few tears. Government officials of every stripe had appeared onscreen and been interviewed, when Franklin Graham appeared. At first, I thought he might say something about thoughts and prayers, but instead he pontificated about the "larger tragedy" - "how many of those thousands of people who died were ready to meet Jesus?"
For a second or two, one could have heard a pin drop, then a voice in the back yelled, "that goddamn sick son of a bitch!" and angry conversation buzzed everywhere. Later that day I told some friends about it. Most of them had either seen or heard about Graham's PR stunt and had some very choice words to say about it. While many christians undoubtedly were nodding along in agreement, those words pissed off a good many people that I saw.
I agree that the SBC being totally out of step with an evolving society is probably the biggest factor in their decline, with the internet being crucial in exposing its most egregious hypocrisies, and the 9/11 attacks and the Chrisitan rightwing response to it peeled back yet another layer of that rotten onion. There were also other religious right wing nutters (Pat Robertson, et al) who drew more fire and commanded more media attention for their mouth-spoutings, but the Franklin Graham moment was the only one I saw with a group of people and observe their immediate reaction.
This makes the SBC more dangerous in the short term, and they have enough positions of power to cause a lot of damage while they are in their death throes. This is why we are seeing more conservative school boards and more local races with super religious candidates. They’re fighting by trying to force their way into our and our children’s lives.
We can outlast them.
We also outnumber them. Slow to act, but when something crosses a line, we do come out in droves, huffs, and Pontiacs.
That’s what I was saying yesterday about the school board. People like comfort, so they don’t push back until it becomes uncomfortable. It is extremely uncomfortable right now in many ways in every corner.
I'll come out in a huff...or maybe a minute and a huff if I haven't had my coffee yet. You drove the Pontiac, I presume....😉
Nah, I ride a Triumph. (not really, it's a Honda but that doesn't work, lol)
You can be like Jesus and drive an Accord. Just don’t talk about it.
Can't do that with a Triumph. Too noisy. Joshua's Triumph was heard throughout the land.
https://robertreich.substack.com/p/why-a-new-progressive-era-in-america
Can't remember if I posted this before – I think I did – but there is certainly cause for optimism in the US.
You did.
Reich is ensconced in uber-liberal Berkeley, CA and very much out of touch with reality in 'murica. With Biden announcing intent to run for re-election and Trump/DeSantis getting into gear with solid support from Republicans, things couldn't look more grim for progressive change.
An interesting life so far. Among many other things, I have seen...
Sputnik, the first satellite flying over L.A., the first commercial jet airlines, the first men in space, the first men on the Moon, the first color TV broadcasts, the worldwide eradication of smallpox, the abolition of apartheid in South Africa, the legalization of same-sex marriages in many countries and finally in the U.S., the effective treatment of AIDS,...
and if I keep my health up and look both ways crossing the street, I might see, for all intents and purposes, the extinction of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Something to look forward to.
I'm getting a thrill of all the wonders of the universe being shown to us by the James Webb telescope.
A triumph of science and technology that dwarfs anything any religion can devise.
"Among many other things, I have seen..."
Just like Rutger Hauer
We all need things to look forward to. Personally, I'm hoping to have sex with Anne Hathaway, although I probably stand about as much chance to do that as anyone has to see the SBC completely gone. I think severely truncated would do me. Although as others have pointed out, that leaves a smaller church full of nutty fanatics – dangerous.
If it shrinks far enough, it will be down to its original roots: the justification of slavery.
Ah, Richard, ever the optimist.
"… the SBC has declined by 1.5 million members since 2018, and by more than 3 million members since 2006. The COVID-19 pandemic played a role in the downturn, as did the reality that as older members die off, there are fewer young people to replace them.
Thoughts and prayers."
That is beautiful writing.
Looks like the thoughts and prayers are beind answered.
Yes. Beautiful and so very cutting. :-)
Tremendous. Couldn't happen to a nicer org. I wish it was possible to get accurate numbers on the Mormons (I was raised one so there's a special chamber in my blackened heart for them) but considering they count tons of people who don't want to be members anymore it's not really gonna happen.
Not to mention all those posthumous baptizing conversions they perform.
They actually really don't count those, if they did then by this point they would have more members than there are people. I don't think any religion counts dead members as "members".
"𝑆𝑐𝑜𝑡𝑡 𝑀𝑐𝐶𝑜𝑛𝑛𝑒𝑙𝑙, 𝑒𝑥𝑒𝑐𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑟 𝑜𝑓 𝐿𝑖𝑓𝑒𝑤𝑎𝑦 𝑅𝑒𝑠𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑐ℎ, 𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑝𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑎 𝑏𝑦 𝑠𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 “𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑢𝑝” 𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑑 𝑘𝑒𝑒𝑝𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑢𝑝 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑚𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑝 𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑠 𝑏𝑦 𝑔𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑖𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 “𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑑 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑛 𝑎𝑛 𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑑𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑦𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑠 𝑎𝑔𝑜.”"
Ah. So what you're telling me is that this years' decline wasn't as steep as it looks, because last year's numbers were illegitimately inflated with dead people and no-shows?
That's fine. I'll accept it. And I will predict that 2024's decline will not be as steep as it looks because the 2023 numbers also contain dead people and no-shows. :)
It’s the last decade or so numbers that were inflated. But we knew that already because when has a religion ever been honest about the number of followers they truly have.
When has a religion ever been honest period?
I see where this is going.
"All our numbers since 1970 have been inflated and subject to math errors. But we've fixed them now! The corrected numbers show the SBC has been on a slow but steady increase every year since at least 1950!"
I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction is correct.
That might be a viable (for them) spin they will use to keep more money flowing in...
I caught the same thing. They were trying to put lipstick on a pig.
OT
"Russia is floating a plan to build a village for conservative Americans who want to move to a 'Christian country' and are tired of liberal ideology in the US"
https://africa.businessinsider.com/politics/russia-is-floating-a-plan-to-build-a-village-for-conservative-americans-who-want-to/gbxxb0s.amp
Hey, conservatives/Christians. Here's your chance to finally live in a Christian theocracy. Do it. Do it do it do it!
Where do I donate to this totally excellent plan?
I am blocked from liking this comment?
I don't think the block function actually works.
I tried blocking our recent troll. Didn't do a thing.
It did, just in the spiritual realm.
Funny how it took a couple of real people (Boreal and Hemant) to finally slay the dragon.
I prayed mightily to his wholly noodliness.
https://i.imgur.com/9ebWZ.jpg
OMG! It's a dream come true................for the rest of us.
Conservatives must really be conflicted, given their long-time anti-commie rhetoric.
Everything is about "owning the libs".
I read an article stating that Russian is the most difficult language for English speakers to learn.
Так что удачи берущим.
How hard can it be? Even brain dead Comrade Carlson can understand it.
Oh, drat. Where 𝘥𝘪𝘥 that tiny violin get to? It must be wherever I left all my fucks, because I can't seem to find any of 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 either...
I've got some rat's asses to not give if you need some.
All I've got is a jar of mole asses.
Found it!
https://i.imgur.com/Med088R.jpeg
OT
So the GQP "isn't quite ready" to expel George Santos just yet. Why? Isn't this the same GQP that showed no hesitation in ousting 2 black Democrats over nothing?
Craven McCarthy needs every vote he can get to accomplish nothing at all!
*𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘵- ...and lest we forget that George Santos (if that is his real name) is an 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 crook: https://apnews.com/article/george-santos-brazil-bad-checks-prosecution-deal-e4254bafe8b917894477f0685f598cc5
Santos' corruption seems bottomless.
You've opened the window for a really coarse joke. Good thing I'm in a nice mood today.
What if I switch to what's her name already mode ?
Of course it's bottomless- he lied that off 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴 ago.
I don't think I want to know what he's doing for them in the privacy of the House cloak room.
Because Santos is not guilty, this is a witch hunt brought on by woke drag queens. The demoncrats were guilty of breaking decorum, we saw their crimes with our own eyes.
Of course Republicans aren't ready to give up on George Santos. Republicans are almost entirely living in lies, and George Santos is only second to Donald Trump in the level of his mendacity.
Actually it's less Republicans than it is MAGA. Republicans have faded to the point where they're nearly a non-entity and MAGA has all but taken their place. And now all at once I'm reminded of that speech that Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy gave about how the fight for the soul of our country can't be between our two great political parties, because we've lost one of them.
IF Santos is second it is ONLY because he is younger than trumpski
For me, it's more of a photo finish with Santos and Trump running neck and neck.
Santos doesn't appear to have sexually assaulted as many people as Trump. At least not yet.
That we know of.
The bar is high. How many drumpster victims will keep silence ?
Running or rolling ?
Jesus harder, yeah, that's the ticket.
Hey, even Hemant can give us glimmers of hope from time to time in between all the dipshits.
That is a huge gap between worship attendance and SBC membership. Yes there is a smaller number that attends 'small groups' but I suspect those are almost entirely included in the worship attendance circle. The nine and a half billion who claim to be Southern Baptist, yet don't go to worship service are not following the tenets of their religion. So I have to ask what other parts of their religion do they deem to be unnecessary?
Are they not going to church because the worship leader is pushing a right wing agenda? Are they not going because they are questioning their own grasp on reality? Or are they just not going because life is too short to spend it at church?
The pandemic likely made some of them realize they don't need to go to church or tithe but many are likely still rabid, white nationalists or they wouldn't have become SBC members in the first place. They don't need to go to church to foment hate, they can just vote republican.
Life IS too short to spend in church. It was my major motivation at age 5 and I knew the guy on the pulpit was claiming shit that even some of kids knew couldn’t be true. We knew when people died, they stayed dead, even at the age of 5.
That number is how much money they took in last year.
I'm in the Dallas area and the nextdoor website is screaming with religious fanatics from this area with regard to the mall shooting that happened about a week ago. I'm pleasantly surprised at the number of older people who are starting to think that maybe we need to do a little something about guns. BUT there are a TON of older/younger christians with their outrageously ignorant thoughts about god in relation to this . Some feel that 'god" was at work in the hands of the cop who was able to-early on-kill the shooter. When I responded to one posting with a "well if god was there he should be arrested and jailed for his negligence" it was SCANDALOUS. You could almost hear the "Harumph" right thru the computer. A number of others were just so complimentary to god for all that he did at the site of the shooting. When I asked what he did there was no response-strange huh? A number of people seemed to just ignore my questions and state that their god is a good god and they will never forsake their god. Their ignorance is beyond appalling. One post that really pissed me off was the one that claims that all these shooters are "leftists". Those bstards are lucky they aren't in my presence when they say that. There would be a whole nother level of shooter. I used to think that I would flirt with you filthy atheists and your philosophy but would end up back on the christian side. Now I know that could NEVER happen. They are too fkng ignorant.
Sure it’s leftists doing all the shooting. Even when the right is practically begging for some of the shooters to come marry their daughters (Kyle Rittenhouse) after the right literally made new rules to get them off for murder. Abbott is ready to pardon a shooter because he shot a leftist at a protest for left issues. So many of the school and mass shooters since, at least, Columbine were avowed right wing extremists, with manifestos that mirror famous right wing talking heads, or GOP platforms and Nazi sloganeering. But the problem is the Christians you talk about who claim this, see themselves as the good guys and anyone who does anything bad can’t possibly be on their side (even if they are in agreement on certain deplorable ideas) they must be no true Christian/Republican/right winger. It’s a result of cognitive dissonance, it’s easier to deny the reality of their position leading to this violence than it is to hold the idea that they’re good while also acknowledging the violence is their position.
"A number of people seemed to just ignore my questions and state that their god is a good god and they will never forsake their god. Their ignorance is beyond appalling."
I so hate this. Stupid idiots who think God is wonderful and the Bible is true just because THEY are doing well. Again today I reminded one of them that many Christians are starving to death. Many Christians don't have good clothes and/or shoes, or the ability to get proper medical treatments, etc. Christians died from Covid, etc.
Yet they keep spouting those "don't worry, be happy," verses and skip blissfully along. When confronted with the truth, you're lying, those people really aren't Christians, and they don't care.
You just want to shake the nonsense out of them, to force them to see. Unfortunately, the odds are strong that they never will.
Matthew 6:23+
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?....
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Many of these christians DON'T LIVE IN THIS WORLD. How often have you heard them say-this is not my home-my home is up yonder. They are the ultimate traitors. The are not only traitors to this country-they are traitors to the world as a whole. The ones who are not well off-they often don't expect much. They are waiting for their heavenly reward.
Definitely agree, from experience. We never were extreme, thankfully, but we could have easily gone down those paths.
"... Satan want you to worry about things. We're about eating. What about clothing but don't worry about Christ. You want to worry about the things of this world ..." punctuation added where needed.
Excuse me, but I like having a roof over my head, clothes to wear, decent food to eat, etc. I'm in a precarious situation right now, but who isn't? Don't tell me to expect help when there is so much evidence otherwise.
(Quote from https://youtu.be/VMdDx90p7jA, about 0:26 before his misogyny shines yet again.)
How dare you want to cover your basic needs when somewhere a prosperity pastor need another luxury watch or private jet ?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/04616d3fdef685a9994dd0999a20ef8ae92d77a5f5528584323a14cbbf07a28e.jpg
Something I'm learning is that the fkn christians HATE it when you quote an appropriate bible phrase to them. I had one beach who posted that the shooter was evil-agreed-and that "free will" accounts for why this happened under Jebus' watch. I asked her if it was Jebus' plan for the free will of the killer to override the free will of the innocents who were killed. When I posted the verses from Isiah where god says "that he created evil" I could almost hear the explosion. Of course the old "out of context" came up PDQ and her statement that I had "twisted the words. Goddamn these people are vile.
As someone who attended SBC services by force for the first 20-ish years of their life, this honestly comes as the expected result of SBC positions on any number of political issues. Sure, abortion is one of them, but the truth about the SBC is that they really are every bit as misogynistic as you think they are; and that's just the tip of the iceberg for their unpopular and/or morally bankrupt conservative political positions. Their rhetoric, when examined carefully, rarely reflects things like compassion, forgiveness, or generosity, they always seem to be too busy condemning someone for some imaginary offense - like being both alive and gay at the same time.
If anything, I'm disappointed that the drop isn't far steeper. I keep hoping that more people will recover from the illness we call religion and wake up to the way it's poisoning society against itself, but it looks like the wait isn't over yet.
A veritable litany of the faults of kkkristerism today. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/people-sharing-biggest-red-flags-003102830.html
It's called progress. Now that we have the internet there is no excuse not to explore and learn about the true origins and validity of your religion.
Little wonder that Christian apologist Josh McDowell claimed that the Internet was the biggest danger to Christianity.
Yeah, some of them can see the effects of their sheep finding out that all gods are only man-made through websites like godisimaginary dot com and apps like Chrestus.
I'm a big fan of the massive website https://jesusneverexisted.com
It's one-stop shopping for all things Christian make-believe (they recently revamped their site).
Homer Simpson design that website?
I learned how to navigate the old format so the new format's not intimidating to me.
Like I said, it's a massive website. Ya gottta click like mad over all the goodness to be found.
Internet resources were where I first learned about the utter lack of real-world evidence that Jesus ever existed, McDowell's "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" to the contrary.
BTW has anyone here ever managed to slog through that mass of bogged-down, foot-noted, legalistic, jargon-riddled nonsense? I tried many times, but that crap was just unreadable. I would read a page two and three times and not be able to make heads or tails out of it. I would think if you were trying to make an argument to convince people, you would at least make it readable and understandable.
Unless the goal is to make your readers feel dumb.
Ahhh...hadn't thought of that.
Young people have little use for the SBC's intolerance, and are deserting the church in droves. Good for them. In many ways, the SBC represents what humanity has had to overcome to progress. Given a free hand, they would turn back the clock on women's rights a hundred years or more, and kids today get that.
One small correction. They have turned back the clock on women’s human rights by a hundred years. Many of the trigger laws in the states were a hundred years old. I know Wisconsin’s was. And the boondoggle over mifepristone in the courts have had an effect on many other reproductive healthcare options. They don’t have to repeal our rights to work, bank, make major purchases or vote to keep us from being able to effectively do these things. They just need to keep us tied down to too many children.
The thought that we might soon be seeing black market morning after pills is terrifying.