First of all, what kind of a grown man goes by Jim Bob? I didn't even know what their television program was about, so I watched a few minutes of it. What I saw made my skin crawl. An authoritarian religious nut case, hiding behind his putrid religiosity to control everyone around him. It sickened me then, and it sickens me now. Few things disgust me more than people who convince themselves their religion entitles them to a say in other people's personal choices.
I watched a few minutes of this one or a similar one once with DM while we were surfing channels. They were on a beach and they complained to the camera that people, especially women, were in bathing suits. We had the same reaction "What the fuck is your problem, if you don't want yo see skin don't go to the beach."
Had a sister-in-law that freaked out when they came to visit us in Minnesota in winter and we bought all three kids snowsuits so they could play outside without freezing solid - even the two girls. Apparently they were not allowed to wear bifurcated clothing, only dresses. Not in -15°F. (And the moron was born & raised there, so she knew better.)
I'm confused. She freaked out at the thought of kids playing outside in winter (without adult supervision?), at the thought of girls playing outside in winter, or because you bought something for her kids without asking? I can kinda sorta see the last one as "less unhinged." But even then, it's the sort of thing you should get over pretty quickly.
I'm rather surprised it isn't true in Nevada. Not that the showgirls wandering the strip leave much to the imagination.
Related: Still can't believe they asked me 'gay or straight' at the Chippendale's booth. How many straight guys come in alone for a picture with the topless male dancers?
It's quite recent, right ? It's legal since the 70's but only on beaches. Fun fact, when some women protested that men could go topless anywhere they want our government promulgated a law forbidding men to be topless.
I recall reading about an incident in either the 40's or the 50's where some preacher went to a beach and started screeching about immodest women and harassing one woman in particular.
Then four of her guy friends grabbed the preacher and threw him into the ocean.😂
Ah, but a hundred years ago, it was rare to see knees or shoulders at the beach. Typical conservative to want to take us back to a time, that if they could go back to, they'd hate because they didn't have computers to do the math or phones they could carry with them.
Jamie Foxx isn't an antivaxxer, he was hospitalized last week and is suffering from unknown symptoms, because the family is keeping his illness private.
That didn't stop the antivaxxers from claiming he had a stroke after getting COVID.
I've certainly seen things at the beach that I wish I could unsee. But that is the point of civilization, society, and politeness: if it's not harming you or someone else and you weren't asked for your input, then keep your farking opinion to yourself. Other beach goers don't care, didn't ask, and don't want to hear what I think of their personal choices, and it would be intruding if I gave them. I'm sure there are lots of people who wish they could unsee me at the beach too, but I am grateful they posess the social maturity the Duggar parents seem to lack.
I always assumed it was a comfort and convenience thing. Pants and shirts are itchy. And it's a hassle to put on pants to check the mail (which is probably why I only do so about once every week or two)
It's wonderful to skinny dip at a pool in a nudist resort. No wet, clingy swim shorts to fuss with.
It's a way to more fully interact with nature. And who needs clothes to do that? Clothing is only necessary for protection from harsh weather. If the sun is out and the day warm? Feh on clothing.
"An authoritarian religious nut case, hiding behind his putrid religiosity to control everyone around him."
No different than Dumb Idiot Ken Ham, no different than the preacher in the Footloose film, no different than Jim Jones, no different than Donald Trump, etc.
I live in exile across the state from the Duggars in the Delta region. People might look down on Arkansas in general, and think that all are rednecks. But we have our degrees of redneckism internally, and while East Arkansas people (river rats) may root for the Razorbacks, they think that West Arkansas people (hillbillies) are total rednecks. Notice the blue counties up and down the Mississippi River where African Americans predominate.
I guess it might be because god has no power here on the alluvial valley floor, the hill people are more religious since that is the only place it has power. (Judges 1:19-20.)
I think I am far more concerned about the stud farm/broodmare fixation, combined their religious belief that tells them that they are far more moral and godly and that's entitled to say in other peoples lives, while they raise a son who is currently in prison for possession of child pornography, believed to have molested his younger sisters and gotten off Scott free, and while married put up an ad on an adultery dating site.
"Blanket training". Beat the child into submission before their brains have even developed object permanence. These people are evil. Breaking the rebellious spirit they are born with? Bullshit. Traumatizing away their natural curiosity to make unquestioning Jesus drones would be far more accurate.
If god didn’t want people to have a rebellious spirit, why are we born with it?
I am trying to raise my children to be decent and upright adults while retaining their own personalities and spirited curiosity. There is no way to defend the Pearl’s book that makes it anything but wicked abuse. And Alexander did it no favors here.
Religion reverses everything. To them, the wicked abuse is righteous instruction. Actual righteous instruction (what you are doing) is what they call wicked abuse. Fuck them. With an unlubed cactus. Sideways.
Has she ever done anyone a favor. She's one of those that it doesn't bother me too much that she believes this bullshit (maybe) but that she has followers who aren't looking for a bad horror show as Bhm put it.
“Their statement also says any conflicts between the family members should be kept out of the spotlight: “We have always believed that the best chance to repair damaged relationships, or to reconcile differences, is through love in a private setting.”“
Invite the world into your home to watch all your intimate interactions with your gigantic family, but the moment there’s a problem or conflict, it suddenly private. But it isn’t just an interpersonal issue, it’s actually an issue with the entire belief system and lifestyle you’re trying to sell to everyone. It needs to be public. Josh Duggar and Gothard’s actions are threats to the public, the public has a right to know.
If directly quoting you in context makes you look wicked, then what you're doing is wicked. In none of the responses Hemant quotes do any of the "victims" claim their beliefs are inaccurrately portrayed.
Gonna slightly disagree with you here, Hemant. A good parent will tell you there's no flucking point in doing this to a 1-year old, because they're 1 and self-control develops much later. Positive reinforcement wouldn't work at this age either. So what Lori is supporting is just a form of pointless torture. About the only thing a kid will learn at the "crawling on a blanket" stage is that mommy is a source of fear and pain.
Somewhere on the old Patheos Non Religious site, someone commented on one of these horrible torturing parents - may have been Pearl - boasting about the obedience of his kids. To demonstrate this, Pearl or whoever it was, told a 16yr old maybe, an older teenager anyway, to get up and walk over to the door and then said 'Stop' as he did so. The boy obeyed instantly. I wish there was a hell, and a special place in it for these loathsome folk, not fit to be called human beings.
I recognized them as the latter immediately. Like you said, there’s no difference between the two descriptions. There’s a big difference between, “I want lots and lots of babies” and the Duggar’s attitude from the very beginning of the show of, “I have lots and lots of babies and so should you.”
I don't get Prime, but I just watched Hill Song on Hulu. Variation on a theme.
Here's the ironic bit I deeply enjoy. Lucifer is the Lightbringer, and shining a light on these destructive, creepy offshoots of christianity is devastating them. Shine that light, Lucifer, and Hail Satan!
"...an infant child would be put on a blanket with an object placed nearby but off the blanket. If the child left the blanket or reached for the object, they would be hit."
Is it any wonder that the more fundamental someone's Christianity gets, the more fucked up it gets? No, not really, and certainly not after the Duggars and all the other stories that have been related regarding families that subscribe to the quiverfull movement. I never watched 19 𝐾𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐶𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔, and I'm not certain I'm interested in taking in 𝑆ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑦 𝐻𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑦 𝑃𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 either, considering I suspect that I already know what is there to be seen.
Then, too, when someone says, "We have THE Answer," and people either cannot or will not look at that skeptically, but swallow it whole, without thinking ... welcome to the wonderful world of what you get.
I think it is worth a watch. What you know is just the tip of the iceberg. It goes into Bill Gothard and also the political agenda. I didn't know about Bill or how he is son of the original Gideon that puts Bibles in your hotel room. One reason to avoid, it made my girlfriend physically ill.
Re: Other quiverful fundy families like the obnoxious Duggars hiding child abuse. Before they came along, the Willis family had TV shows about their holy and righteous living. Dad is now in prison for raping his teenage daughters. I heard an interview with one of them, now bravely out of the cult. Asked why they didn't complain or report their abuse, she said they knew hardly any other families, and so they assumed it happened to all teen girls. She said that since their family was living as the lawd intended families to live, she assumed they were getting off lightly. Victims in heathen families must be suffering far worse abuse than they were experiencing in their wonderful x-tian home cos the devil and sin etc that they had the victory over! Yuck!
That is just beyond disturbing: to think that being molested is NORMAL. I shudder to think what it's going to take to reorient them to life in the real world. I wish them all luck.
You don't see the cage you are in. I already mentioned the cousin who refused to learn to drive because it's what her father repeatedly told her, even if most of the women she knew did. Several years later this hypocrite had no problem being driven by his partner.
I was also once impressed by hearing an interview with women's rights and labour leader, Karen Nussbaum who brought to light and fought against the inequalities, harrassment and abuse that female clerical workers suffered routinely from their male bosses a few decades ago. The interviewer, whom I'm assuming was a younger woman, asked, in a slightly baffled tone, 'But why didn't you just report it?' Ms Nussbaum interrupted before the end of that sentence with 'Because we didn't have the words, really, we didn't have the words....' It is hard for younger people to understand how true that was. I'm pleased my young g/kids know the correct anatomical names for their intimate parts and would be believed if they had to tell an adult they'd been touched inappropriately - zod forbid - by another adult in those areas of their bodies. That's new, in my time those terms for genitalia were never used in society. The media banned them till, what, the 1980s or 1990s? Had I used one to my parents, I'd have had my mouth washed out with soap. These poor fundy quiverful kids truly live in a bubble, like they're on a different planet to the rest of us with no recourse to any wrongs, be they physical, psychological, verbal, emotional or sexual abuse.
It was VERY common in my Catholic high school, to the point where it was frequently talked and even joked about. (Q: How do we separate the men from the boys at North Catholic? A: With a crowbar.) I'm not sure any of us ever thought of it as quite normal, but a common feature, yes, definitely. There were constant warning jokes about never being caught alone with this brother or that priest. I'm not sure how genuinely typical North Catholic was, but I'm quite positive it wasn't particularly exceptional. Child abuse--treating kids as objects and even playthings--is an endemic part of christianity, and it has been from the start.
My best friend's parents sent him and I to a weekend IBLP seminar back in the 90's. Wish I could find the workbook they gave us so I could look at the crazy first hand with new adult eyes.
His parents eventually alienated all of their kids.
I've kept up with the Duggars since becoming repulsed by them sometime around their second TLC special. Nothing about the special was new to me except for description of "The Joshua movement". I'd heard about it before but really didn't understand how nefarious it was, Hhw nauseating and then how many of the politicians I despise are part of it. And are still part of it. If there's anything this special should tell us is how as risk our country is from being taken over by the Christian Taliban. I don't like the democrats. But until the GOP culls it's membership so that these crazies no longer are in charge that's who I must vote for.
Every president in my lifetime welcomed Billy Graham into the White House and treated him as someone deserving of respect and reverence. EVERY single one of them, regardless of party. And that continued up to the day of his death and for several weeks thereafter. Separation of church and state? Like hell.
The Democrats are (at least) 2 parties squeezed into one. If we could shitcan the Republicans, they'd fission into a moderate party and a progressive party. Unfortunately the progressive candidates rarely win primaries
To expound on that, I think people feel like the progressive policies are too disruptive to modern life. Even knowing, and agreeing with, the reasons, I found the shopping bag policies in California and Colorado incredibly annoying. Just one example. Another is the push to green energy and cutting carbon emissions. It severely inconveniences people, so people convince themselves that the climate change warnings are over-blown and there's plenty of time for science to save us from ourselves.
Progressives rarely win because the entire Democratic establishment, with all its money and media connections, gets marshaled against them. Look at the way Bernie Sanders got treated by the D's when he was running.
Fortunately, the electorate seems to be tiring of status quo Democrats. I can't say I know what it's like in the rest of the country, but here in Pittsburgh in the last two years we have elected a progressive mayor, Ed Gainey, and a progressive congressperson, Summer Lee. And of course we go John Fetterman as senator, too. And in last month's primary, a progressive, Sarah Inamorato, won the D nomination for County Executive. And all four of them won despite fierce, dogged, implacable opposition by the Democratic machine.
If that pattern is being repeated around the country, there may be some hope yet for the nation's survival. When I see freshmen congressmen like Max Frost and Jared Moskowitz tell off the Republicans in no uncertain terms with wit, sarcasm and TRUTH (and in a way that Chuck Schumer, say, would never dream of doing), it makes my tired, cynical old heart sing with joy.
I don't hold my nose at voting for dems. All of the progressive legislation of the last 70 years has come from the dems, not republicans. Republicans have always been the party of the wealthy and religious kooks since Warren Harding.
The GOP has never given me or other working people a thing. Tax cuts for the wealthy and promotion of guns and bigotry have been their signature for almost a century.
YOUR senator has declared we must be at the mercy of every deranged asshole with a gun and a grudge. Yet their offices prohibit firearms. Call your senators and ask. *67 hides your number.
Yes, but most of that progressive legislation is from the 60s and 70s. Today? Notr so much. Not even close. Today's Democratic establishment vehemently opposes progressive measures like Medicare for all.
Remember Bill Clinton campaigning in the LGBT community and telling us "I have a vision for America and you are part of it"? And then turned around and signed DADT and DOMA into law, when he could have let them become law without his signature? Remember Hillary DEFENDING that? If you don't have to hold your nose to vote for candidates like that, you need to think a lot more deeply. Recognizing that the Democrats aren't as bad as the Republicans is one thing. Thinking they're actually good is quite another.
I don’t think they are good, I think they are sane. The main reason legislation doesn’t get passed is obstruction by the GQP over the last 4 decades and archaic rules like the filibuster, 60% vote thresholds and blue slips.That being said, Biden has signed more progressive legislation than we’ve seen since LBJ. on climate , infrastructure, etc. The GQP offers only 19th century solutions to 21st century problems.
"Media story makers are anything but fair and balanced."
"Fair and balanced" is a phrase made infamous by Fox News. To the IBLP, it means that some people might say that shit smells bad, but they found one person who says it smells lovely, so both opinions are equally valid and true.
I keep saying they should offer to annex Puerto Rico. It's obvious the U.S. doesn't really want it and Canada could really use a sub-tropical province.
That said, I'm in Texas, it would be hard, but I could get used to snow. At least I can put on more clothes in Canada in winter, here they will only let me take off so much no matter how far above 100F it gets.
Jinger? That name isn’t a Tragediegh it’s a Myrdyrrh. There’s another way Jim Bob and Michelle abused their children. You are naming adults people, not toys. Of course, to the Duggars, children are not people at all (even as adults and evidenced in this article) they’re a means to an end. I hope some of the children break away and change their names, for their sake.
I've said before, your children's name is not a game. Mine is unusual but not awful, though I guess I have an accent because people frequently think I've said something much less common until I spell it.
I spelled my first child’s very common name a very uncommon way. It’s not outrageous, just the Polish way that no one else uses. They can’t find their name on tchotchkes in gift shops, but many places now provide engraving or personalization services if they really want something. My younger child has an older name that is common among certain demographics we don’t fit, but it isn’t spelled unusually, or completely uncommon amongst my demographic (there are even titular characters on television shows or main characters in movies and in comics). And yet I rarely see her name on gift shop key rings. We had fun with their names, but made sure they could live with them their entire lives.
First of all, what kind of a grown man goes by Jim Bob? I didn't even know what their television program was about, so I watched a few minutes of it. What I saw made my skin crawl. An authoritarian religious nut case, hiding behind his putrid religiosity to control everyone around him. It sickened me then, and it sickens me now. Few things disgust me more than people who convince themselves their religion entitles them to a say in other people's personal choices.
I watched a few minutes of this one or a similar one once with DM while we were surfing channels. They were on a beach and they complained to the camera that people, especially women, were in bathing suits. We had the same reaction "What the fuck is your problem, if you don't want yo see skin don't go to the beach."
Had a sister-in-law that freaked out when they came to visit us in Minnesota in winter and we bought all three kids snowsuits so they could play outside without freezing solid - even the two girls. Apparently they were not allowed to wear bifurcated clothing, only dresses. Not in -15°F. (And the moron was born & raised there, so she knew better.)
Religion can cause coproencephaly.
Ooh, that’s a good word: “coproencephaly”
I'm confused. She freaked out at the thought of kids playing outside in winter (without adult supervision?), at the thought of girls playing outside in winter, or because you bought something for her kids without asking? I can kinda sorta see the last one as "less unhinged." But even then, it's the sort of thing you should get over pretty quickly.
It's because we allowed/required the *girls* to wear snow*pants*. In her cult, girls were only allowed to wear dresses/skirts.
You defeated God with fashion.
I like to blind god with science.
Did you tell her they were all out of -20 degree-rated snow dresses?
:)
Conservative Christians expect their religiosity to be deferred to at all times. What did they think they were going to see at a beach?
I would love to see them try their pseudo outrage here. Some beaches allow women to go topless 😁
In New York State, anywhere a male can legally be topless so too can females.
I'm rather surprised it isn't true in Nevada. Not that the showgirls wandering the strip leave much to the imagination.
Related: Still can't believe they asked me 'gay or straight' at the Chippendale's booth. How many straight guys come in alone for a picture with the topless male dancers?
Probably a lot of you sprinkle quotation marks around liberally.
It's quite recent, right ? It's legal since the 70's but only on beaches. Fun fact, when some women protested that men could go topless anywhere they want our government promulgated a law forbidding men to be topless.
Is there a booming business selling swim shirts to men on non-topless beaches?
Bet that's caught more than a few visiting U.S. males by surprise.
That was taken care of with
No shirt
No shoes
No service
This also kept out the hippies!
Looks like it was a 1992 court decision.
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2013/08/51161/topless-women-nyc
I recall reading about an incident in either the 40's or the 50's where some preacher went to a beach and started screeching about immodest women and harassing one woman in particular.
Then four of her guy friends grabbed the preacher and threw him into the ocean.😂
Polluting the sea is bad.
And yet at some they want to wear burkhas!
Burkini, I don't care if they want to be rare, medium or well cooked as long as they leave other women alone.
Ah, but a hundred years ago, it was rare to see knees or shoulders at the beach. Typical conservative to want to take us back to a time, that if they could go back to, they'd hate because they didn't have computers to do the math or phones they could carry with them.
Next to none of these pesky vaccines they love to hate either.
Speaking of which...
The anti-vaxx hammerheads are at it again.
https://www.newsweek.com/jamie-foxx-becomes-figurehead-anti-vax-movement-1804426
(You may have to click to unmute the sound, although the captions do the job by themselves)
Don't tell me, let me guess. You've never heard of him. Of course, now that I've said that you'll claim you have. :)
Nope, never heard of him and never saw any one of his movies either.
He's a very talented actor, you should see him in his role as Ray Charles, he was awesome!
How many anti-vax dunderheads are there in Hollywood?
Foxx isn't even an anti-vaxxer. It's the "movement" itself using his condition to further their whacked-out agenda.
One is already too much.
Jamie Foxx isn't an antivaxxer, he was hospitalized last week and is suffering from unknown symptoms, because the family is keeping his illness private.
That didn't stop the antivaxxers from claiming he had a stroke after getting COVID.
Yup. I mentioned the fact that Foxx wasn't an antivaxxer in a reply to another commenter. I basically said what you said and the article said.
They'd love to take us back to no computers or phones too. But just as with clothing, the limitations would be for women.
I've certainly seen things at the beach that I wish I could unsee. But that is the point of civilization, society, and politeness: if it's not harming you or someone else and you weren't asked for your input, then keep your farking opinion to yourself. Other beach goers don't care, didn't ask, and don't want to hear what I think of their personal choices, and it would be intruding if I gave them. I'm sure there are lots of people who wish they could unsee me at the beach too, but I am grateful they posess the social maturity the Duggar parents seem to lack.
I used to hang glide over a nude beach. I've seen things I wish I hadn't...
Naturism isn't a "body beautiful" thing. Take it from a naturist. :)
I always assumed it was a comfort and convenience thing. Pants and shirts are itchy. And it's a hassle to put on pants to check the mail (which is probably why I only do so about once every week or two)
Have you considered kilts.
It's wonderful to skinny dip at a pool in a nudist resort. No wet, clingy swim shorts to fuss with.
It's a way to more fully interact with nature. And who needs clothes to do that? Clothing is only necessary for protection from harsh weather. If the sun is out and the day warm? Feh on clothing.
Same here; I've delivered furniture to naturist resorts.
Schwimmbads in Germany taught many a young American GI that they don't just get to see the cute ones...they get *all* of 'em!
Yeah, that cracks me up. Don't want to see bathing suits, stay away from beaches and swimming pools!
"An authoritarian religious nut case, hiding behind his putrid religiosity to control everyone around him."
No different than Dumb Idiot Ken Ham, no different than the preacher in the Footloose film, no different than Jim Jones, no different than Donald Trump, etc.
Except the preacher in Footloose was human enough to question if he was wrong at the end as I remember it.
Yes, you remembered correctly.
It's a Southern/Bible Belt/Redneck thing. Gotta fit the stereotype, it's what the fans want.
I live in exile across the state from the Duggars in the Delta region. People might look down on Arkansas in general, and think that all are rednecks. But we have our degrees of redneckism internally, and while East Arkansas people (river rats) may root for the Razorbacks, they think that West Arkansas people (hillbillies) are total rednecks. Notice the blue counties up and down the Mississippi River where African Americans predominate.
I guess it might be because god has no power here on the alluvial valley floor, the hill people are more religious since that is the only place it has power. (Judges 1:19-20.)
God has a short reach. He can only get to the ones that live in higher elevations.
Maybe it's the lack of oxygen as such high levels?
Don't hate on the culture. I'd take 100 Jim Bobs who are like Trae Crowder over one James Roberts who is like the Duggar patriarch.
I think I am far more concerned about the stud farm/broodmare fixation, combined their religious belief that tells them that they are far more moral and godly and that's entitled to say in other peoples lives, while they raise a son who is currently in prison for possession of child pornography, believed to have molested his younger sisters and gotten off Scott free, and while married put up an ad on an adultery dating site.
“We have always believed that the best chance to repair damaged relationships, or to reconcile differences, is through 𝐥𝐨𝐯𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐚 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐯𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐬𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠."
Um, Dullards, that's what got your boy Joshie sent to prison.
"Blanket training". Beat the child into submission before their brains have even developed object permanence. These people are evil. Breaking the rebellious spirit they are born with? Bullshit. Traumatizing away their natural curiosity to make unquestioning Jesus drones would be far more accurate.
If god didn’t want people to have a rebellious spirit, why are we born with it?
I am trying to raise my children to be decent and upright adults while retaining their own personalities and spirited curiosity. There is no way to defend the Pearl’s book that makes it anything but wicked abuse. And Alexander did it no favors here.
Religion reverses everything. To them, the wicked abuse is righteous instruction. Actual righteous instruction (what you are doing) is what they call wicked abuse. Fuck them. With an unlubed cactus. Sideways.
Has she ever done anyone a favor. She's one of those that it doesn't bother me too much that she believes this bullshit (maybe) but that she has followers who aren't looking for a bad horror show as Bhm put it.
“Their statement also says any conflicts between the family members should be kept out of the spotlight: “We have always believed that the best chance to repair damaged relationships, or to reconcile differences, is through love in a private setting.”“
Invite the world into your home to watch all your intimate interactions with your gigantic family, but the moment there’s a problem or conflict, it suddenly private. But it isn’t just an interpersonal issue, it’s actually an issue with the entire belief system and lifestyle you’re trying to sell to everyone. It needs to be public. Josh Duggar and Gothard’s actions are threats to the public, the public has a right to know.
Beat me to the public vs private aspect as I was about to type it.
Can't have it both ways, xtians.
If it looks good, it's public. If it looks bad, it's private. Hypocrisy 101, a feature of Christianity.
Shows how toilet tissue thin the layer of Christian piety is.
And yet.
Ah, the Duggars. Not a drag queen or LGBTQ among them.
You know. The ones that Christians call immoral and vile.
...𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎 𝑖𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑜𝑓 𝐺𝑜𝑑'𝑠 𝑎𝑢𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑐𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒, 𝑠𝑒𝑥𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑝𝑢𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑦, ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔, 𝑏𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑚𝑒𝑛 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑛...𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑐𝑖𝑝𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑒 𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑤𝑖𝑐𝑘𝑒𝑑...
If directly quoting you in context makes you look wicked, then what you're doing is wicked. In none of the responses Hemant quotes do any of the "victims" claim their beliefs are inaccurrately portrayed.
𝐿𝑜𝑟𝑖 𝐴𝑙𝑒𝑥𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑑𝑒𝑓𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑠 “𝑏𝑙𝑎𝑛𝑘𝑒𝑡 𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑖𝑛𝑔” 𝑏𝑦 𝑠𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑡 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑎𝑏𝑖𝑒𝑠 “𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓-𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑎 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑔𝑒.” 𝐺𝑜𝑜𝑑 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠, ℎ𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟, 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑙 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑑𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑝ℎ𝑦𝑠𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑚 𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙…
Gonna slightly disagree with you here, Hemant. A good parent will tell you there's no flucking point in doing this to a 1-year old, because they're 1 and self-control develops much later. Positive reinforcement wouldn't work at this age either. So what Lori is supporting is just a form of pointless torture. About the only thing a kid will learn at the "crawling on a blanket" stage is that mommy is a source of fear and pain.
Pointless torture? It's fundamentalist Christianity. The cruelty IS the point.
Hell, is a child's brain even partially myelinized at one year old?
Somewhere on the old Patheos Non Religious site, someone commented on one of these horrible torturing parents - may have been Pearl - boasting about the obedience of his kids. To demonstrate this, Pearl or whoever it was, told a 16yr old maybe, an older teenager anyway, to get up and walk over to the door and then said 'Stop' as he did so. The boy obeyed instantly. I wish there was a hell, and a special place in it for these loathsome folk, not fit to be called human beings.
[𝑇]ℎ𝑒 𝐷𝑢𝑔𝑔𝑎𝑟𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 “𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑞𝑢𝑖𝑟𝑘𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑖-𝑏𝑖𝑟𝑡ℎ 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙 𝑘𝑜𝑜𝑘𝑠, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑏ℎ𝑜𝑟𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎.”
To-may-to, to-mah-to. Two sides of the same extremist coin.
I recognized them as the latter immediately. Like you said, there’s no difference between the two descriptions. There’s a big difference between, “I want lots and lots of babies” and the Duggar’s attitude from the very beginning of the show of, “I have lots and lots of babies and so should you.”
I don't get Prime, but I just watched Hill Song on Hulu. Variation on a theme.
Here's the ironic bit I deeply enjoy. Lucifer is the Lightbringer, and shining a light on these destructive, creepy offshoots of christianity is devastating them. Shine that light, Lucifer, and Hail Satan!
"...an infant child would be put on a blanket with an object placed nearby but off the blanket. If the child left the blanket or reached for the object, they would be hit."
"Don't eat the fruit from that tree."
Yelp, biblical. <puke>
Is it any wonder that the more fundamental someone's Christianity gets, the more fucked up it gets? No, not really, and certainly not after the Duggars and all the other stories that have been related regarding families that subscribe to the quiverfull movement. I never watched 19 𝐾𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐶𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔, and I'm not certain I'm interested in taking in 𝑆ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑦 𝐻𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑦 𝑃𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 either, considering I suspect that I already know what is there to be seen.
Then, too, when someone says, "We have THE Answer," and people either cannot or will not look at that skeptically, but swallow it whole, without thinking ... welcome to the wonderful world of what you get.
I think it is worth a watch. What you know is just the tip of the iceberg. It goes into Bill Gothard and also the political agenda. I didn't know about Bill or how he is son of the original Gideon that puts Bibles in your hotel room. One reason to avoid, it made my girlfriend physically ill.
Re: Other quiverful fundy families like the obnoxious Duggars hiding child abuse. Before they came along, the Willis family had TV shows about their holy and righteous living. Dad is now in prison for raping his teenage daughters. I heard an interview with one of them, now bravely out of the cult. Asked why they didn't complain or report their abuse, she said they knew hardly any other families, and so they assumed it happened to all teen girls. She said that since their family was living as the lawd intended families to live, she assumed they were getting off lightly. Victims in heathen families must be suffering far worse abuse than they were experiencing in their wonderful x-tian home cos the devil and sin etc that they had the victory over! Yuck!
... 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑘𝑛𝑒𝑤 ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑙𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑠, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑠𝑠𝑢𝑚𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑡𝑒𝑒𝑛 𝑔𝑖𝑟𝑙𝑠.
That is just beyond disturbing: to think that being molested is NORMAL. I shudder to think what it's going to take to reorient them to life in the real world. I wish them all luck.
You don't see the cage you are in. I already mentioned the cousin who refused to learn to drive because it's what her father repeatedly told her, even if most of the women she knew did. Several years later this hypocrite had no problem being driven by his partner.
I was also once impressed by hearing an interview with women's rights and labour leader, Karen Nussbaum who brought to light and fought against the inequalities, harrassment and abuse that female clerical workers suffered routinely from their male bosses a few decades ago. The interviewer, whom I'm assuming was a younger woman, asked, in a slightly baffled tone, 'But why didn't you just report it?' Ms Nussbaum interrupted before the end of that sentence with 'Because we didn't have the words, really, we didn't have the words....' It is hard for younger people to understand how true that was. I'm pleased my young g/kids know the correct anatomical names for their intimate parts and would be believed if they had to tell an adult they'd been touched inappropriately - zod forbid - by another adult in those areas of their bodies. That's new, in my time those terms for genitalia were never used in society. The media banned them till, what, the 1980s or 1990s? Had I used one to my parents, I'd have had my mouth washed out with soap. These poor fundy quiverful kids truly live in a bubble, like they're on a different planet to the rest of us with no recourse to any wrongs, be they physical, psychological, verbal, emotional or sexual abuse.
It was VERY common in my Catholic high school, to the point where it was frequently talked and even joked about. (Q: How do we separate the men from the boys at North Catholic? A: With a crowbar.) I'm not sure any of us ever thought of it as quite normal, but a common feature, yes, definitely. There were constant warning jokes about never being caught alone with this brother or that priest. I'm not sure how genuinely typical North Catholic was, but I'm quite positive it wasn't particularly exceptional. Child abuse--treating kids as objects and even playthings--is an endemic part of christianity, and it has been from the start.
That's why cults are always so insulated and isolated: it is by design, and it is CRUCIAL for their continued existence.
My best friend's parents sent him and I to a weekend IBLP seminar back in the 90's. Wish I could find the workbook they gave us so I could look at the crazy first hand with new adult eyes.
His parents eventually alienated all of their kids.
I've kept up with the Duggars since becoming repulsed by them sometime around their second TLC special. Nothing about the special was new to me except for description of "The Joshua movement". I'd heard about it before but really didn't understand how nefarious it was, Hhw nauseating and then how many of the politicians I despise are part of it. And are still part of it. If there's anything this special should tell us is how as risk our country is from being taken over by the Christian Taliban. I don't like the democrats. But until the GOP culls it's membership so that these crazies no longer are in charge that's who I must vote for.
The GOP and religion have been joined at the hip for 40+ years.
Sure have. Ever since Billy Graham.
Every president in my lifetime welcomed Billy Graham into the White House and treated him as someone deserving of respect and reverence. EVERY single one of them, regardless of party. And that continued up to the day of his death and for several weeks thereafter. Separation of church and state? Like hell.
Yep. 12 consecutive Presidents.
One was too many for that bastard.
Yeah I know. So I just hold my nose a lot and vote democrat. I don't see that changing unfortunately.
The Democrats are (at least) 2 parties squeezed into one. If we could shitcan the Republicans, they'd fission into a moderate party and a progressive party. Unfortunately the progressive candidates rarely win primaries
To expound on that, I think people feel like the progressive policies are too disruptive to modern life. Even knowing, and agreeing with, the reasons, I found the shopping bag policies in California and Colorado incredibly annoying. Just one example. Another is the push to green energy and cutting carbon emissions. It severely inconveniences people, so people convince themselves that the climate change warnings are over-blown and there's plenty of time for science to save us from ourselves.
Progressives rarely win because the entire Democratic establishment, with all its money and media connections, gets marshaled against them. Look at the way Bernie Sanders got treated by the D's when he was running.
Fortunately, the electorate seems to be tiring of status quo Democrats. I can't say I know what it's like in the rest of the country, but here in Pittsburgh in the last two years we have elected a progressive mayor, Ed Gainey, and a progressive congressperson, Summer Lee. And of course we go John Fetterman as senator, too. And in last month's primary, a progressive, Sarah Inamorato, won the D nomination for County Executive. And all four of them won despite fierce, dogged, implacable opposition by the Democratic machine.
If that pattern is being repeated around the country, there may be some hope yet for the nation's survival. When I see freshmen congressmen like Max Frost and Jared Moskowitz tell off the Republicans in no uncertain terms with wit, sarcasm and TRUTH (and in a way that Chuck Schumer, say, would never dream of doing), it makes my tired, cynical old heart sing with joy.
I don't hold my nose at voting for dems. All of the progressive legislation of the last 70 years has come from the dems, not republicans. Republicans have always been the party of the wealthy and religious kooks since Warren Harding.
The GOP are the aristocracy. Like the Confederacy.
The GOP has never given me or other working people a thing. Tax cuts for the wealthy and promotion of guns and bigotry have been their signature for almost a century.
Just a few things the Democrats have given Americans:
https://www.transcodems.com/democratic-accomplishments
YOUR senator has declared we must be at the mercy of every deranged asshole with a gun and a grudge. Yet their offices prohibit firearms. Call your senators and ask. *67 hides your number.
They are the heresy of hatred.
Yes, but most of that progressive legislation is from the 60s and 70s. Today? Notr so much. Not even close. Today's Democratic establishment vehemently opposes progressive measures like Medicare for all.
Remember Bill Clinton campaigning in the LGBT community and telling us "I have a vision for America and you are part of it"? And then turned around and signed DADT and DOMA into law, when he could have let them become law without his signature? Remember Hillary DEFENDING that? If you don't have to hold your nose to vote for candidates like that, you need to think a lot more deeply. Recognizing that the Democrats aren't as bad as the Republicans is one thing. Thinking they're actually good is quite another.
I don’t think they are good, I think they are sane. The main reason legislation doesn’t get passed is obstruction by the GQP over the last 4 decades and archaic rules like the filibuster, 60% vote thresholds and blue slips.That being said, Biden has signed more progressive legislation than we’ve seen since LBJ. on climate , infrastructure, etc. The GQP offers only 19th century solutions to 21st century problems.
"Media story makers are anything but fair and balanced."
"Fair and balanced" is a phrase made infamous by Fox News. To the IBLP, it means that some people might say that shit smells bad, but they found one person who says it smells lovely, so both opinions are equally valid and true.
FOX News: Fairly unbalanced.
(unbalanced as in deranged, unstable, demented, etc.)
#1 with racists!
Their core audience. Them and the 55-and-older kkkonservative crowd.
OT: HRC Declares Nat'l State of Emergency: Historic warning for LGBTQ+ people in US! Know your rights before you travel anywhere
https://act.hrc.org/page/129571/petition/1?ea.tracking.id=sms_adv_statofemrgncy0623
Better late than never, I suppose.
Reminiscent of the African-American guide the Green Book.
Ok. Bagen beat me by 6 minutes. I just got the text.
Maybe you should really emigrate to Canada.
Just need to find an employer willing to sponsor me for a visa. AFAIK, Canada isn't yet accepting LGBT refugees from the U.S.
8^(. I would be there but Canada is too cold.
I keep saying they should offer to annex Puerto Rico. It's obvious the U.S. doesn't really want it and Canada could really use a sub-tropical province.
That said, I'm in Texas, it would be hard, but I could get used to snow. At least I can put on more clothes in Canada in winter, here they will only let me take off so much no matter how far above 100F it gets.
Would you really want to deal with hurricanes on an island?
Why not? Gilligan and the rest had to deal with them and they came through just fine. ;)
Jinger? That name isn’t a Tragediegh it’s a Myrdyrrh. There’s another way Jim Bob and Michelle abused their children. You are naming adults people, not toys. Of course, to the Duggars, children are not people at all (even as adults and evidenced in this article) they’re a means to an end. I hope some of the children break away and change their names, for their sake.
I've said before, your children's name is not a game. Mine is unusual but not awful, though I guess I have an accent because people frequently think I've said something much less common until I spell it.
I spelled my first child’s very common name a very uncommon way. It’s not outrageous, just the Polish way that no one else uses. They can’t find their name on tchotchkes in gift shops, but many places now provide engraving or personalization services if they really want something. My younger child has an older name that is common among certain demographics we don’t fit, but it isn’t spelled unusually, or completely uncommon amongst my demographic (there are even titular characters on television shows or main characters in movies and in comics). And yet I rarely see her name on gift shop key rings. We had fun with their names, but made sure they could live with them their entire lives.
Bort?
How’d you guess?