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Troublesh00ter's avatar

This is the brand of public condemnation of Christian Nationalism that we need to see more of, particularly in the halls of government. I salute Representative Frost for his forthright and unabashed statement. What we need now is a LOT more of it.

Our secular nation and government is under threat and attack from these extremists. They need to be confronted, and they need to be stopped ... NOW.

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oraxx's avatar

History makes it quite clear, there is no horror that cannot be justified in the name of religion. The evangelicals in this country constantly complain about how badly they're being persecuted when ever they are prevented from forcing their religion on others. They are also the people who would be the first to persecute others given the opportunity to do so. If you want to see what genuine persecution looks like, . . . hand power to the preachers. We now have a House Speaker who has evidently convinced himself he's operating under divine sanction. Buckle up.

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XJC's avatar

The "Black Community" is led politically by preachers. Men of God.

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oraxx's avatar

Oppressed people resist with the tools they have available. The black churches played an instrumental role during the Civil Rights movement. There are, however, black preachers every bit as corrupt as their white brethren.

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cdbunch's avatar

Creflo Dollar.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Mark Burns.

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cdbunch's avatar

OT: Still, why does Substack hate you?

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

I'm lucky?

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xenubarb's avatar

Creflo A. Dollar.

I've always wondered what a creflo is. Is it like yeeting?

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Anri's avatar

Given usage, I would probably define it as "An pathetic yearning, shameless request, or embarrassing hankering for".

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

Great thoughts and ideas. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

Since Nixon and his southern strategy; to Reagan and W. bush kowtowing to the religious right, and welcoming these religious wing-nuts into the Republican Party; there has been a religious takeover of the party, and the courts.

I don’t see an exit strategy from this predicament, as the religious wing-nuts, MAGA mob and white nationalists have infiltrated every aspect of government; from Congress, to the Whitehouse, to the military and law enforcement, and to state and local governments.

These people are here to stay; for now. Unless this country unites (highly unlikely), and soon, we will suffer a death by a thousand cuts to our democracy and to individual rights.

The dumbing down of America began with Nixon, and its evolution is being completed by the least religious of all; a dimwitted, unscrupulous, narcissistic sociopath, and his true believers.

Make no mistake; democracy is dying by our apathy and intransigence. Enough said!

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oraxx's avatar

They are fighting a rear-guard action, trying to accomplish through the courts and legislatures what they failed to get done from their pulpits. They are deluded enough to believe the American people will passively submit to their authoritarian, top-down approach to the culture wars they lost a long time ago.

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cdbunch's avatar

They are right. People will not fight until it affects them personally and to an extreme degree. Most people are concerned with their little slice of life and as long as it's not too uncomfortable, they won't take steps that will disrupt it entirely. This is why people stay in toxic and/or abusive jobs, they are more afraid of the uncertainty of unemployment than continuing to put up with it. Likewise they are more afraid of the uncertainty of overthrowing the government than they are with putting up with the Christian Nationalists.

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xenubarb's avatar

It is said we get the government we deserve.

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

Very true...:)

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NOGODZ20's avatar

When your religion is the cause of unending misery, maybe it's long past time to either find a new religion or jettison religion altogether.

You don't need religion to have morals.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Sadly, religion is so infused in our culture that any consideration of morals that don't include belief in the supernatural is beyond most people's willingness to accept. Frost's statement here is one very good step. What we need now are a thousand more like it and then another thousand after that. Christian nationalism needs to be confronted and it needs to be stopped, and doing so will be a long hard slog.

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XJC's avatar

Better yet, have just one intelligent, prominent Christian denounce and end his adherence to his religion.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

"just one intelligent, prominent Christian"

Good luck finding that.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

If they were intelligent, they wouldn't be Christian. Rationality would sponge away superstition.

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XJC's avatar

Therein lies the problem: massive number of intelligent people who are Christian (or Jewish, or...well, lets' leave it there). Religious identification and adherence is in the realm of the emotional. It's why our species is doomed.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Intelligent good people would still be good people without their religion (again: Carter, Parton and Yankovic)

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User's avatar
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Oct 26, 2023
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NOGODZ20's avatar

Jimmy Carter? Dolly Parton? Weird Al?

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XJC's avatar

Moslem. Fox News proved that long ago.

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larry parker's avatar

If you can't base your morals on the whims of an imaginary deity, what can you???

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

Imagine the (deserved and rightful) outcry if a Muslim member of Congress said "The mosque is supposed to direct the church. The government is not supposed to direct the mosque."

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Lynn James's avatar

I see a DNC message ad from that:

Voice-over: "The mosque is supposed to direct the government. The government is not

supposed to direct the mosque. Think something like that could never happen here?"

Video clip of Boebert: "The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is

not supposed to direct the church."

I admit I'm a little stuck for a pithy ending that would bring the point home. But I would love to see ads like this using the GOP's own words against them and exposing their unvarnished despotic aims to the spotlight. By pointing out the consequences for the average citizen should this belief system ever reach the total control the GOP is salivating over.

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wreck's avatar

"I admit I'm a little stuck for a pithy ending that would bring the point home."

"Don't let BeetleBoobs reach into your pants!"

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Lynn James's avatar

🤣 BeetleBoobs! OMG! 🤣😂🤣 ❤️❤️❤️

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cdbunch's avatar

I don't let anyone with Boobs without a medical degree reach into my pants. (Well, except for me)

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Anri's avatar

"The Satanic Temple is supposed..."

(you know the rest.)

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Oct 26, 2023
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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Xenu or thetans would have also worked nicely.

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Oct 26, 2023
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xenubarb's avatar

Well, he has experience, at least.

His resumé includes 'Galactic Overlord.'

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Xenubarb? Any relation?

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

"Christianity is not Christian Nationalism."

Rep. Frost seems to be a good man but history* disagree with this statement.

*And like someone reminded me it was not only Europe and Africa but the invasion of the American continent too. Plus we both forgot Oceania.

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Lynn James's avatar

I think he honestly believes that Real Christianity (TM) is about love and compassion. I've been there, and god knows how hard I tried to hang onto that beatific vision, in spite of evidence to the contrary. I was indoctrinated to the hilt but that couldn't stop the real-world events from slowly unraveling my faith. The response of the religious right to the AIDS epidemic, the antics of the Westboro Baptist Church, the Reagan/Bush regimes demonizing the poor and the mentally ill while espousing God, Guns, and Apple Pie.... I could go on.

I wanted to keep believing that Christianity was a force for good, and the bad actors were not True Christians (TM), but I finally had to realize that it was actively trying to harm many of my friends. That finally allowed me to see it for what it is: a scam that is out for total control of the country, based on a belief system cobbled together from bits and pieces of old myths with no basis in reality or history.

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xenubarb's avatar

The new Speaker of the House is one of these whackadoodles. I really think the whole drama that played out as one after another candidates were dropped was meant to lead up to Johnson taking that position. He's an extremist's extremist; ignorant, superstitious, and absolutely not a person who should be in that office. I fear for this country. I hope to someday be reading about it from some other, saner country.

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cdbunch's avatar

A-women.

I'm trying to figure out how to convince either Canada or New Zealand that they need an aging Unix System Administrator (or Oracle or MS-SQL DBA) in not-great health.

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larry parker's avatar

Adopt a beaver or a kiwi.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

Hell, I'd put in a word for you myself – but it's more likely be the kiss of death given my political opinions about this present government.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

For those who haven't read the FFRFs Andrew L. Seidel's book "The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American" yet, I can't recommend it highly enough.

Seidel lays out how NatCism is the single greatest internal threat this republic faces and why.

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Joe King's avatar

Don't forget to follow with American Crusade.

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Mr.E's avatar

This is what the new speaker of the house mike Johnson said in 2016. #ThrowbackThursday

“And people say, ‘How can a young person go into their schoolhouse and open fire on their classmates?’ Because we’ve taught a whole generation, a couple generations now of Americans, that there’s no right or wrong, that it’s about survival of the fittest, and you evolve from the primordial slime. Why is that life of any sacred value? Because there’s nobody sacred to whom it’s owed. None of this should surprise us.”

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/new-speaker-mike-johnson-blamed-school-shootings-on-the-teaching-of-evolution

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

The usual nonsense, but coming from the speaker of the house downright dangerous.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

The idiot gets evolution wrong.

"Survival of the fittest" didn't come from Darwin. It is the "brainchild" of Herbert Spencer. Spencer threw in sociology and ethics, which have ZERO to do with the scientific fact of evolution.

Spencer's ideas fell out of favor at the very beginning of the 20th Century. They were later adopted by Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

That’s not what survival of the fittest means anyway. It’s not about which creature can take out the rest, it is about how any creature fits in the environment, including all the other creatures. And even if it was about being physically fit and strong or whatever, it still has nothing to do with taking out others with the strength.

Why does life have to be owed to anything other than that living creature? Why must anything be sacred for it to have value? Sacred doesn’t protect anything, despite what the religionists claim, it puts a target on things when folks who have differing ideas come a callin. What is the first thing a new authoritarian do when he gets in charge? Destroys everything the last guy holds sacred. If life were truly protected by being sacred we wouldn’t be seeing the Gaza Strip soaked in blood constantly. These are supposedly the most devout people in the world, most concerned about sacred anything, and look how they act. God doesn’t even treat life as sacred, the great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Job’s first family, the Bible is rife with god treating life as disposable. The GOP as well. They’re always on about life is sacred, and yet they do fuck all to protect it, even when they claim it’s the most important thing. Fetuses aren’t protected by the GOP, there’s no research into eliminating miscarriages or providing healthcare to pregnant women, or food to babies, I mean the GOP all voted against the formula bill when we had the shortage because of the GOP led deregulation of the industry lead to death of babies, then they promote guns and violence that often kill babies and children and pregnant women all the damn time. Sacred means something else to right wingers. It’s a word to use to lord over their superiority to others over their enemies. Life is sacred when we deem it so, it’s not an overarching status of life.

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Lynn James's avatar

" the great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Job’s first family, the Bible is rife with god treating life as disposable."

As I said earlier...all this stuff staring me in the face, you would think I would have gotten a clue much sooner than I did.

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Len Koz's avatar

Again I shall point out that Israel is considered holy to the 3 religions "of the Book" and untold numbers of people have been killed there in the name of the god of those religions over the centuries.

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larry parker's avatar

It wasn't slime, it was ooze.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

That publicity whore with a reality telly show on the BBC is responsible.

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larry parker's avatar

That's what I thought but wasn't sure.

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Oct 26, 2023
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Lynn James's avatar

When this life is nothing but a "vale of tears" with nothing but pain, heartache, death, and destruction waiting in the wings, why should we think of it as precious? The Sweet Bye-and-Bye suddenly starts looking a lot better.

That was one of many things I couldn't figure out, but learned not to question. If our life was this oh-so-precious gift from God, why was it also described as a painful burden, this mortal coil to be gladly shuffled off when we were "called home?"

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Lynn James's avatar

The more I look back at my church years, the more I remember all kinds of insane stuff like that, things that I tossed in the corner of a dark closet and promptly forgot about if I couldn't understand it. One would think that somewhere along the line I would have gotten a clue that something was amiss.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Democrats with spines!? More please!

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cdbunch's avatar

I thought the Speaker decided committee appointments. If so, he'll be removed from all committees by Monday. Whether that will deter others is an open question.

He's young and naive if he thinks Christian Nationalism isn't the obvious consequence of the Great Commission.

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Lynn James's avatar

If he is removed by Monday, that needs to be all over the news. People need to see again and again how this Christian Nationalism is going to work IRL.

I just don't think the general public is getting the message:

"Even a thoughtful, well-reasoned, sane objection like the one voiced by Frost will be met with real-life punishment. Think this won't happen to you if you if you ever protest religious extremism in your life and your community? It can and it will."

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cdbunch's avatar

The general public is getting their news from stealth right wing media. Those that aren't getting it from That GodAwful Bird App where all news they see only reinforces their existing beliefs.

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Lynn James's avatar

Do the three original networks still exist? (CBS, NBC, ABC?) Gotta start somewhere, and I believe these networks still do a news hour (?)

Dumb questions, I realize, but between working and taking care of mom, I haven't been able to follow a lot of developments. I rarely have a chance to watch TV anymore, so I have no idea what became of the original three, but I would think they're still around. Of course if they are, their reach has been greatly diminished, that's a given.

But...like I said, gotta start somewhere. All I can do is write to congress critters. I don't have the time, the talent, or the wherewithal to create ads....*sigh*

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cdbunch's avatar

Those three plus Fox are still doing 'local' news shows. The problem is a large percentage of the local stations are owned by Sinclair broadcasting which pre-packages the national news with a decidedly conservative bias. That's what I meant by stealth right wing media.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

The Big Three are still around, and I watch the evening news on CBS and NBC fairly regularly. In addition, CBS News 60 Minutes is still doing its thing and occasionally to frequently breaking some significant stories. I also support and listen to NPR.

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cdbunch's avatar

NPR listeners aren't the ones we need to reach. :)

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ericc's avatar

It's voted on by the full House, so no. And AFAIK the majority party tends to let the minority party pick its own members - this part of Congress' internal workings has not fallen to hyperpartisan 'give them nothing' -ness. At least, not in most cases....not yet.

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Amy Slack's avatar

He’s using some No True Scotsman logical fallacy there.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

At least he's playing his bagpipes to shame his fellow Christians, instead of to deny being associated with them. That's a pleasant change of pace.

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Richard Wade's avatar

The distance between those who lie for Jesus and those who kill for Jesus is getting narrower every day.

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Lynn James's avatar

🎼🎶Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war....

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Always thought that was one of Christianity's worst songs.

It's certainly one of the dumbest. What does an omnipotent deity need with an army?

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Who else is going to man the space ship?

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Lynn James's avatar

I think it's the leaders who need the army. They use the language of war to stir up the faithful against The Enemy and desensitize them to violence. So that those who will lie for Jesus will someday kill for Jesus. Or at least not be bothered by someone else killing for Jesus.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

What a surprise it will be for them when their intended victims shoot back.

CHRISTIANS (to their leaders): "Hey! You didn't tell us THEY'D be armed, toooo!"

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Lynn James's avatar

I hope it doesn't come to that, but.....it seems as if we're getting closer and closer to that point every day.

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Lynn James's avatar

There also another song we were taught as small children, when most of us didn't even know the meaning of words like infantry, artillery, etc.

I may never march in the infantry,

Ride in the cavalry,

Shoot the artillery,

I may never fly o'er The Enemy,

But I'm in the Lord's Ar-meeeee!

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Lynn James's avatar

As a bit of an aside, my three/four-year old brain figured that "artillery" was fancy word for birds. There were always little boys running around our neighborhood with BB guns trying to shoot them.

As for the other military terms, I didn't have a clue.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

As a former boy, I was aware of all those militaristic terms from a very young age.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

They've always been conjoined twins.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

...and the two were never out of earshot from each other in the first place.

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Bindersfulohostbodies's avatar

I’ve had a serious problem with the lack of Christian voices denouncing loudly the outrageous and dangerous religious extremism that’s been pushed in recent years. It truly was a deafening silence at times. And, when I would bring that up, the primary response was for religious folks to focus on saying “not all religions” or “not my religion” or “they aren’t practicing that religion right.” It was quickly ignored or denied when I pointed out the historic precedent of organized religion being weaponized and used as the justification for abhorrent acts. That’s almost always attached to whenever a religion has government authority or a co-governing setup. In other words, blending church and state inevitably ends up with abuse of power and extremism. The programming is strong because they get people indoctrinated early in life. They are unaware of their bias and cognitive dissonance. It’s refreshing to see one who actually believes that his religion has zero place in state matters, and who understands the dangers. I’m not a fan of Bible quotes being used to point out hypocrisy though. It misses the point that the abuse is motivated by cruelty and not faith. Faith is the facade. And cruelty is the point. I don’t need a religion in order to be a good, moral person and to know right from wrong. I don’t need to hear about what’s in the Bible and how alleged Christians are doing it wrong. Religion seeks to pair with government in order to access the authority and power of government, period. It’s not about the religion. It’s about the power.

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Joe King's avatar

A challenge for Christians: strictly follow ALL the "moral" rules in the bible. Last one arrested wins.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

OT - It's not just vulnerable reps in swing districts that the fascist caucus wants to fuck over; it is also farm district reps

‘𝐎𝐧𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐥𝐲 𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐬’: 𝐍𝐞𝐰 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐫 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐬 𝐆𝐎𝐏 𝐝𝐢𝐯𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐨𝐧 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧

https://www.yahoo.com/news/newly-united-house-gop-faces-205949488.html

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Wonder if Johnson is already feeling the heat. He should have considered what Aesop said:

"Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true."

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Matri's avatar

"Keep feeding those leopards!"

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Considering who Johnson is and what he's done, he'll get no sympathy from me.

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Lynn James's avatar

Me either.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

OT - Oh yeah, the new misspeaker is a real piece of 💩

𝐇𝐨𝐮𝐬𝐞 𝐒𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐫 𝐌𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐉𝐨𝐡𝐧𝐬𝐨𝐧 𝐝𝐢𝐝 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐚 ‘𝐜𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐠𝐧𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐲’ 𝐜𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐝 𝐚 𝐯𝐚𝐧 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐢𝐧𝐝 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐠𝐧𝐚𝐧𝐭 𝐰𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐧

https://dnyuz.com/2023/10/26/house-speaker-mike-johnson-did-work-for-a-crisis-pregnancy-center-that-used-a-van-to-find-pregnant-women/

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Did the van have "Free Candy!" scribbled on the side?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Were there windows on the van?

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Matri's avatar

... 𝔀𝕠𝙬.

He couldn't have been more obvious if he also wore a William Shatner mask and carried a large kitchen knife.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Gods, how I despise these thoughts & prayers bumpkins.

Notice that when it's something THEY want, thoughts & prayers go out the window. They demand ACTION, NOW!

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Lynn James's avatar

Yep.

Every. Single. Cottonpicking. Time.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Are you aware of the racist roots of that word? Who was doing the cotton picking?

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Len Koz's avatar

Boll weevils?

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Cute, but no cigar.

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Lynn James's avatar

Everybody in my family, going back a few generations, farmed cotton at one time or another, and picked it themselves before they finally acquired modern machinery. This was true of a lot of poorer farmers. It's still widely grown all over the South. "Cottonpicking" was often a substitute for profanity in everyday speech.

But I will find another substitute for f-bombs if people find it problematic.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

F-bombs are okay here. Mucking, ducking, pucking.

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Lynn James's avatar

F-bombs are a bit of a problem for me IRL. I could get fired. It's a habit I need to curb.

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Maltnothops's avatar

I would be surprised is anyone here is unfamiliar with the Thoughts and Prayers app, but just in case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXrB7Y6gVN8

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Wanna bet some Christian group is trying to make this a reality (sans sarcasm of course).

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Maltnothops's avatar

In another forum, as aggressively assholish Christian said he would pray for me. I inquired about the details. How often? How much? How long? Would the prayers be imprecatory? He quoted the verse about praying unceasingly. For months and months afterward I would pounce on his comments and observe that they did not seem to be related to praying for me.

Yup, I am not a friendly atheist.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

You can actually get a reaction from a cat.

If it's a good relationship, you'll get nose touches, headbutts, cheek nuzzles and body rubs.

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Lynn James's avatar

Because that's worked so well in the past. Keep chanting the magic words and burning the magic incense. That way, your house reps don't have to do anything substantial to help alleviate the violence and destruction and keep you and your family safer.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Don't forget "expelling opposing legislators who dare to call you out on your bullshit."

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Maltnothops's avatar

You do know I was being sarcastic, right?

His first day on the job and he leads with “pray to end senseless violence”.

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Lynn James's avatar

(?) I assumed you were, yes. Aren't we all?

Was it the "you?" I was kind of addressing Johnson and all his ridiculous ilk prescribing magic rites to appeal to a make-believe supernatural being and adding to his absurd advice to his constituents.

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Maltnothops's avatar

Not to worry.

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Len Koz's avatar

Prayer doesn't piss off his masters from the NRA and the gun manufacturers.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

How should you respond to a deadly mass shooting if you are a gun rights advocate?

First, "Say nothing." If media queries persist, go on the "offence, offence, offence". Smear gun control groups. "Shame them" with statements such as - "How dare you stand on the graves of those children to put forward your political agenda?"

NRA

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Len Koz's avatar

Sometimes the actions of gun rights advocates make me hope there is a hell.

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