Hell of it is, ANY medical, dental, or other related procedure, invasive or not, could be construed as being against God's Plan™. Makes me wonder what he thinks of women who suffer a miscarriage, due to Rh mismatch, as opposed to those who DON'T suffer such an event because their OB-GYN knew about RhoGAM.
All Deevers demonstrates with this is his screaming ignorance.
Ditto for the late Mother Theresa. "Offering your suffering to Christ," YEAH.... but when she got sick, off she jetted to the best doctors her donors' money could buy. No wasting those $$$$$$$$ on medicines or palliative care for those in her "hsopitals."
And we're surprised? The Ghoul of Kolkatta was the epitome of love and kindness helping all those poor dying folk die in agony, rather than offering relief or release.
As though prayer does fuck-all. Seriously, this REALLY pisses me off, because it reflects a level of insensitivity and boorish behavior which has become ridiculously predictable in the evangelical community. Any prospective parents who have gone through the gauntlet of IVF (not me, admittedly) know the sometimes thin odds they're up against, depending on physiology, genetic markers, and other factors, never mind the heartbreak when it doesn't work, again and again.
THAT is what really fries my grits about Deevers. He clearly has ZERO empathy OR compassion. All he knows is his stupid holy book and nothing else matters to him.
And because there is money to be made. If this asswipe had financial ties to an IVF company, you know he'd be the biggest pro-IVF Christian in the world.
I’m beginning to think that’s the point with these yo-yo’s. The whole idea is conversion by force if necessary. The idea of public service is anathema to them; foreign or only somewhere out in the ether. So very happy to have gotten away from the possibility of living under a religious dictatorship.
I think it's safe to say that "conversion by force" would go over about as well as a Led Zeppelin with our crowd here, and I suspect that said attitude isn't unique or limited to us.
Sorry, cancer patients. Surgery is out, as are chemo and radiation treatments. 'Tain't natcherl, dontcha know. Sorry, diabetics. No insulin shots for you. (This list could go on forever).
It's all part of God's Plan (TM) for you, bless your heart.
"... our embryonic neighbors..." SERIOUSLY?!? That's a reach I'm not certain that Kareem Abdul Jabbar could have made in his prime! This doesn't even mention the fact that couples that can't conceive naturally jump through more hoops than I could hope to enumerate to try to have a kid.
This is the kind of cruel and thoughtless speech that I have come to expect from evangelicals, and Deevers doesn't disappoint [big surprise ... NOT!]. For the sound of things, he is a shoe-in for the Oklahoma State Senate seat, which does the Sooner State no favors.
Oklahoma is a great state to visit if you like speed traps and crappy roads (I live right above the northern border of the OK panhandle, so I drive down there a lot).
But the politics have just gone all to shit.
Teachers are leaving the state, they have a complete nutjob for Education, they don't even have enough money in most rural districts to keep schools open 5 days a week, it's just a complete sh*t show.
If for any reason, I were in Oklahoma, about the only thing I'd want to do is stop by Seth Andrews' place to say hidy. I met him at the 2016 Reason Rally, then again at a function we had here in Ohio. He's a terrific guy, wonderfully personable, and the utter antithesis of Deevers.
I saw him in person this year at the AA conference. I was really disappointed at the people that weren't there because the conference had been rescheduled due to the plague but getting to hear one of Seth's stories in person really helped to make the conference worth the visit.
Very cool, thank you! I've been an atheist quite a while, but now I have a little more time on my hands to delve into the debates. Been quite enlightening!
Seth is probably less of a debater than a storyteller (and a damned good one, at that!). If you like debates, I would say check out Aron Ra and Matt Dillahunty on YouTube. They are both EXCELLENT, VERY knowledgeable, and pros at debate.
I lived for many years in Tulsa. I got laid off in 2003 and we moved to Florida in 2004. We have just moved to Albuquerque and we love it. Both Oklahoma and Florida have gone crazy with their laws. At least Oklahoma had the Sooners, the Cowboys, my kids, and Seth Andrews!
If you're interested in science, especially biology and similar, Forrest Valki also hails from Oklahoma.
I think I was within "let's have lunch" distance when I went to a conference in Broken Arrow some years back. I didn't know about him then, unfortunately. As it turned out, lunch with him would have been waaaaay better than the conference!
I'd love to meet Seth too. He has a great voice as well. I don't think he ever gets angry. His love for his pets ranks him high in my books too.
Of the many things I dislike about religion, there are few things I find more offensive than the mentality religion entitles believers to a say in other people's personal choices. What is the state's interests here? What gets better if IVF is outlawed? This is the sort of thing that allows sanctimonious fools to convince themselves they're doing God's work.
“I want to see no-fault divorce, come back to at-fault in divorce—and even public shaming for those who are at fault in divorce.“
Before no fault divorce, women did not have the ability to file for divorce. The folks fighting to eliminate no fault divorce are all right wing, misogynistic, dudes, many of whom have been caught being abusive to their spouses. I wonder what the motivation for this fight could be?
And he wants to shame the partner who’s at fault, too. Since this would take us back to a time where men just dumped wives for not putting out, or keeping house well enough, or aging, this man is all about hating women.
Do something Oklahoma. Don’t let this failure of a human being get into office.
Whenever somebody complains about "an assault against God," they're complaining about an assault against their personal comforting fantasy. The implication (often openly expressed) is that this assault will be avenged by God, later, always, always later, at a time left unspecified. It amounts to a three-year-old whining, "When my daddy gets home, he's gonna beat you up."
The danger is that when the complainer finally gets tired of waiting for God to avenge his bruised fantasy, he will decide to do it himself. Mr. Deevers wants to do this by passing laws.
When oppressive laws don't work, violence is the next step.
“When the District 32 seat was vacated, it was clear to me that God had been preparing me for this race… My purpose in this campaign is to glorify God and fight for the causes I believe He would have me fight for.”
He’s certain that god wants him to run, but he’s less sure of what god wants him to fight for. It’s clear I should run, fight for what I believe he wants.
Therein lies the problem with folks who are called by god to rule (in whatever capacity).
Those unwanted children are my only concern about IVF. Instead of trying so hard to have a child of your own body, you could give a born child a loving home. I still get the instinct, and don't mean to fault people for it, but would prefer they adopt.
People REALLY want to pass on their genes. Adopting is wonderful, but the amount of adoptions is far less than all the "unwanted" children whose life chances are seriously compromised. Children born through IVF are wanted children.
Yeah. They definitely are. So are most children who are adopted. Both routes involve considerable hoops for the prospective parents to jump through and a not insignificant expense.
Just one more piece of evidence- Republicans won't stop at outlawing abortion. There's always another battle in the culture war. There has to be. If they ran out of targets for their perpetually-outraged base, they'd be devoured by their own monster.
When you don’t have policies to campaign on, all you can do is fearmonger. The GOP is incapable of governing, they’re not interested in that anyway, their only option is punching down on the vulnerable others to win support from bigots to stay in power.
O/T I blocked my first commenter today. This site is one of my happy places. I come here for comfort and camaraderie. I am not here to be insulted by strangers. I am so grateful for Hement and all of you who have made my transition from theism so painless. I guess I share too much personal stuff with the world.
I have had enough shit thrown at me by Christians, I don't need it here.
Farewell for now, my friends. Back to lurker status ...
I'm not leaving! Just getting over the shock of being belittled "Sure Jan.."' after a very personal comment. I'm just going to share less personal stuff. Kind of like when jc warned against casting pearls before swine. My comments are not pearls, but they represent who I am.
Saxby Chambliss (Georgia? S. Carolina?) pulled exactly the same stunt a few years ago when his state passed their abortion restriction. The law specifically says destroying IVF embryos is allowed (i.e. not regulated by the law) and, when asked about it, he told the press something like 'they don't count because they're not in a woman.'
Which shows exactly what's going on here. They want to regulate women, not keep embryos alive.
This latest lunacy from the MAGAt religion corner... I just don't have any words. These people want not only complete and utter control over people's bedrooms, but also complete and utter control over how they conceive children? Just what the...what can you say? I've read this post and read through the comments and I still come up empty when attempting to formulate a coherent response to such idiocy on such a monumental scale.
I think my brain is broke. I'm going to bed. G'night, all.
Even after several hours mulling this over, I still can't quite get my head around this level of control lust. First they deny abortion access, then they start going after contraception, so women can't even avoid pregnancy in the first place. Although after Roe fell, I saw that second one coming.
Now even people who want children but can't conceive will be subject to government denial if these penis swingers get their way. That one I did not see coming because I thought these fuckers wanted to force women to bear as many children as humanly possible before they dropped dead.
Now these batshit crazy fuckers want to inject themselves and their dicktums* into one of the most painful and private areas of a couple's life together -- the inability to conceive -- and deny them even the possibility of a family of their own.
This takes the shit cake and slathers diarrhea frosting on it.
Not only does it make no sense given that they want women to breed like rabbits...but also the sheer epic level of unmitigated brass ball hubris exceeding everything I've seen from these assholes up until now just floors me.
What an ass. My wife and I had 2 IVF procedures. Neither resulted in viable embryos so we moved on to adoption, which worked out just fine. But embryos ain’t people dood!
A loving WHITE HETERO CHRISTIAN COUPLE who use IVF are totes AGAINST "God's Plan" but two young girls getting their papa drunk so that they can rape him is just fine with sky daddy.
If you are that blind, you have to wear glasses to walk if you don't have your contacts. (I know from personal experience, before the cataract surgery I navigated mostly by echo location :)
Pastor Musty is the reason we keep church and state separate. The 7 Key Founders saw guys like this coming and refused to give them a seat at the table of governance.
For rusty, glasses are against god's plan for you.
Hell of it is, ANY medical, dental, or other related procedure, invasive or not, could be construed as being against God's Plan™. Makes me wonder what he thinks of women who suffer a miscarriage, due to Rh mismatch, as opposed to those who DON'T suffer such an event because their OB-GYN knew about RhoGAM.
All Deevers demonstrates with this is his screaming ignorance.
The Pope keeps going to the hospital when he gets sick. None of that prayer jive. He depends on science. The head of the Catholic Church is a sinner!
And should be punished accordingly. Send him to...Oklahoma.
Or West Virginia. They're currently dead last, with Mississippi next-to-last.
Only 2 states, Oklahoma. C'mon, you can do it!
What about your territories like Porto Rico ?
PR really needs to apply to province-hood with Canada. The U.S. really doesn't care and Canada could use a tropical province.
They don't count. Only 'Murica counts. ; )
😂🤣😂
Ditto for the late Mother Theresa. "Offering your suffering to Christ," YEAH.... but when she got sick, off she jetted to the best doctors her donors' money could buy. No wasting those $$$$$$$$ on medicines or palliative care for those in her "hsopitals."
Mother Teresa, the Wicked Witch of the Near East.
In an appalling display of injustice, she is now St. Teresa. She was canonized instead of being cannonized.
And we're surprised? The Ghoul of Kolkatta was the epitome of love and kindness helping all those poor dying folk die in agony, rather than offering relief or release.
And if Deevers has a heart attack or stroke, he's SOL, right? No? God makes an exception for him? Figures.
And arrogance.
Obviously, the former are not praying enough.
As though prayer does fuck-all. Seriously, this REALLY pisses me off, because it reflects a level of insensitivity and boorish behavior which has become ridiculously predictable in the evangelical community. Any prospective parents who have gone through the gauntlet of IVF (not me, admittedly) know the sometimes thin odds they're up against, depending on physiology, genetic markers, and other factors, never mind the heartbreak when it doesn't work, again and again.
THAT is what really fries my grits about Deevers. He clearly has ZERO empathy OR compassion. All he knows is his stupid holy book and nothing else matters to him.
It's about control, it's about power, and it's about maintaining both.
I wrote a comment below about how Texas is making sure that IVF is not affected by their abortion ban, because those embryos don't count.
Why, you may ask? Because they can't be aborted because they're not inside a uterus.
And because there is money to be made. If this asswipe had financial ties to an IVF company, you know he'd be the biggest pro-IVF Christian in the world.
But we are supposed to empathise with him.
Uh-huh ... on a day that doesn't end in "Y". 😝🤢🤮
I am French, 6 days finishes with a "i" and one with a "e".
Or, as a Norwegian, as well as for Germans, on a day that doesn't end in "g"
I'll empathize with him alright. With a Louisville Slugger to cranium.
Conservative Christian does not share any overlap on the Venn diagram with either empathy or compassion.
I’m beginning to think that’s the point with these yo-yo’s. The whole idea is conversion by force if necessary. The idea of public service is anathema to them; foreign or only somewhere out in the ether. So very happy to have gotten away from the possibility of living under a religious dictatorship.
I think it's safe to say that "conversion by force" would go over about as well as a Led Zeppelin with our crowd here, and I suspect that said attitude isn't unique or limited to us.
𝑁𝑜𝑡𝑎 𝑏𝑒𝑛𝑒, evangelicals.
Sorry, cancer patients. Surgery is out, as are chemo and radiation treatments. 'Tain't natcherl, dontcha know. Sorry, diabetics. No insulin shots for you. (This list could go on forever).
It's all part of God's Plan (TM) for you, bless your heart.
Thoughts and prayers.
"... our embryonic neighbors..." SERIOUSLY?!? That's a reach I'm not certain that Kareem Abdul Jabbar could have made in his prime! This doesn't even mention the fact that couples that can't conceive naturally jump through more hoops than I could hope to enumerate to try to have a kid.
This is the kind of cruel and thoughtless speech that I have come to expect from evangelicals, and Deevers doesn't disappoint [big surprise ... NOT!]. For the sound of things, he is a shoe-in for the Oklahoma State Senate seat, which does the Sooner State no favors.
Look on the bright side...what reason would any person have to visit that state....unless you sell meth or get a taste from This Thing of Ours?
Oklahoma is a great state to visit if you like speed traps and crappy roads (I live right above the northern border of the OK panhandle, so I drive down there a lot).
But the politics have just gone all to shit.
Teachers are leaving the state, they have a complete nutjob for Education, they don't even have enough money in most rural districts to keep schools open 5 days a week, it's just a complete sh*t show.
The Donald J. Trump highway? (Drove through the panhandle on the way back from Yellowstone)
Grew up in Oklahoma. Would still be there if I could have found a job in 2006, instead ended up in Texas. Lateral move.
If for any reason, I were in Oklahoma, about the only thing I'd want to do is stop by Seth Andrews' place to say hidy. I met him at the 2016 Reason Rally, then again at a function we had here in Ohio. He's a terrific guy, wonderfully personable, and the utter antithesis of Deevers.
But that's about the ONLY thing I'd want to do.
I've seen him in clips on TikTok, he's really good to listen to!
I saw him in person this year at the AA conference. I was really disappointed at the people that weren't there because the conference had been rescheduled due to the plague but getting to hear one of Seth's stories in person really helped to make the conference worth the visit.
Atheists Anonymous?
I have no intention of being anonymous. You know me. :)
Seth is all over YouTube as the producer of The Thinking Atheist, where he has been a presence since about 2009. I can't recommend him highly enough.
https://www.youtube.com/user/thethinkingatheist
Very cool, thank you! I've been an atheist quite a while, but now I have a little more time on my hands to delve into the debates. Been quite enlightening!
Seth is probably less of a debater than a storyteller (and a damned good one, at that!). If you like debates, I would say check out Aron Ra and Matt Dillahunty on YouTube. They are both EXCELLENT, VERY knowledgeable, and pros at debate.
I lived for many years in Tulsa. I got laid off in 2003 and we moved to Florida in 2004. We have just moved to Albuquerque and we love it. Both Oklahoma and Florida have gone crazy with their laws. At least Oklahoma had the Sooners, the Cowboys, my kids, and Seth Andrews!
If you're interested in science, especially biology and similar, Forrest Valki also hails from Oklahoma.
I think I was within "let's have lunch" distance when I went to a conference in Broken Arrow some years back. I didn't know about him then, unfortunately. As it turned out, lunch with him would have been waaaaay better than the conference!
I'd love to meet Seth too. He has a great voice as well. I don't think he ever gets angry. His love for his pets ranks him high in my books too.
I visited Oklahoma very briefly while visiting inlaws in Kansas, Missouri and Arkansaw in 2017 or 2018, if my memory don't fail me.
Of the many things I dislike about religion, there are few things I find more offensive than the mentality religion entitles believers to a say in other people's personal choices. What is the state's interests here? What gets better if IVF is outlawed? This is the sort of thing that allows sanctimonious fools to convince themselves they're doing God's work.
“I want to see no-fault divorce, come back to at-fault in divorce—and even public shaming for those who are at fault in divorce.“
Before no fault divorce, women did not have the ability to file for divorce. The folks fighting to eliminate no fault divorce are all right wing, misogynistic, dudes, many of whom have been caught being abusive to their spouses. I wonder what the motivation for this fight could be?
And he wants to shame the partner who’s at fault, too. Since this would take us back to a time where men just dumped wives for not putting out, or keeping house well enough, or aging, this man is all about hating women.
Do something Oklahoma. Don’t let this failure of a human being get into office.
Without divorce, the only way out of a bad marriage is homicide or suicide.
We should send him a few hundred or thousand copies of Francine Hughes' story.
Or force him to listen to "Goodbye, Earl" on a loop.
You didn't post the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw7gNf_9njs
This one is fitting too https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2ThvZC_fs
Or wanting a newer model. Funny how men were never at fault. See Nabolenon's rules for divorce.
Whenever somebody complains about "an assault against God," they're complaining about an assault against their personal comforting fantasy. The implication (often openly expressed) is that this assault will be avenged by God, later, always, always later, at a time left unspecified. It amounts to a three-year-old whining, "When my daddy gets home, he's gonna beat you up."
The danger is that when the complainer finally gets tired of waiting for God to avenge his bruised fantasy, he will decide to do it himself. Mr. Deevers wants to do this by passing laws.
When oppressive laws don't work, violence is the next step.
I know I've posted this very recently, but this a-hole forces me to bring it up again...
"If you're pre-born, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're fucked." - G. Carlin
The man was good at putting things very succinctly.
Edit: Too bad he can't do the DNC's messaging.
“When the District 32 seat was vacated, it was clear to me that God had been preparing me for this race… My purpose in this campaign is to glorify God and fight for the causes I believe He would have me fight for.”
He’s certain that god wants him to run, but he’s less sure of what god wants him to fight for. It’s clear I should run, fight for what I believe he wants.
Therein lies the problem with folks who are called by god to rule (in whatever capacity).
The thing I find fascinating about that old saw is that god supposedly told HIM ... but didn't tell anyone else!
WHYIZZAT?!? 😉
...and was apparently willing to wait until the Year of our Lard Two-Thousand and Twenty-Frikkin'-Three to bother delivering the message.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6ca119ffc634b8c092e5848874d01cbd9b49ef2b96504f628c020acc93ace7f5.jpg
The main purposes of most religions are:
To collect money.
To control their members through fear.
To indoctrinate their children before they reach the age of reason.
To intimidate and kill those who are not members.
This man is a perfect example.
The bit about children is to support all the other bits.
It is the most natural thing in the world to want to pass on our genes and with the help of science. infertile couples can do this.
The world is full of unwanted children - these are people who REALLY want a child.
There is a certain verity at work - pro-fetus people are fond of fetuses, not so fond after they become PERSONS at birth.
I am unnatural ! \o/
😀
Je suis l'exception hétéro venue perturber la règle 😏
Those unwanted children are my only concern about IVF. Instead of trying so hard to have a child of your own body, you could give a born child a loving home. I still get the instinct, and don't mean to fault people for it, but would prefer they adopt.
People REALLY want to pass on their genes. Adopting is wonderful, but the amount of adoptions is far less than all the "unwanted" children whose life chances are seriously compromised. Children born through IVF are wanted children.
Yeah. They definitely are. So are most children who are adopted. Both routes involve considerable hoops for the prospective parents to jump through and a not insignificant expense.
Just one more piece of evidence- Republicans won't stop at outlawing abortion. There's always another battle in the culture war. There has to be. If they ran out of targets for their perpetually-outraged base, they'd be devoured by their own monster.
When you don’t have policies to campaign on, all you can do is fearmonger. The GOP is incapable of governing, they’re not interested in that anyway, their only option is punching down on the vulnerable others to win support from bigots to stay in power.
O/T I blocked my first commenter today. This site is one of my happy places. I come here for comfort and camaraderie. I am not here to be insulted by strangers. I am so grateful for Hement and all of you who have made my transition from theism so painless. I guess I share too much personal stuff with the world.
I have had enough shit thrown at me by Christians, I don't need it here.
Farewell for now, my friends. Back to lurker status ...
I'm not leaving! Just getting over the shock of being belittled "Sure Jan.."' after a very personal comment. I'm just going to share less personal stuff. Kind of like when jc warned against casting pearls before swine. My comments are not pearls, but they represent who I am.
Thank you for your kind support!
I can't find the picture of my brownie you will have to be satisfied with that
https://ibb.co/5c3xLZq
Please don't let one person drive you away. 🙏
Stay. Don't let the strangers win.
Don't leave, once Hemant know about him he will not bother us anymore.
TS you are needed.
And Texas was so careful to protect IVF procedures when they passed their abortion ban- look at this guy:
“Abortion is, according to Texas law, causing the death of the child, who is a child of a woman
known to be pregnant,” John Seago, president of Texas Right to Life, said pointing to a statute the
Legislature amended a few years ago outlining what counts as an abortion.
“There's also no such thing as an abortion outside of a woman's womb, so when you look at what's
happening in the laboratory with assisted reproductive technology, that is not destruction of an
embryo,” he added."
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/13/texas-ivf-treatments/
His reasoning is, it's okay to dispose of embryos produced during IVF because they're NOT IN A UTERUS.
The reason I brought up Texas is because the IVF industry is big in that state.
Saxby Chambliss (Georgia? S. Carolina?) pulled exactly the same stunt a few years ago when his state passed their abortion restriction. The law specifically says destroying IVF embryos is allowed (i.e. not regulated by the law) and, when asked about it, he told the press something like 'they don't count because they're not in a woman.'
Which shows exactly what's going on here. They want to regulate women, not keep embryos alive.
I remember that now!
This latest lunacy from the MAGAt religion corner... I just don't have any words. These people want not only complete and utter control over people's bedrooms, but also complete and utter control over how they conceive children? Just what the...what can you say? I've read this post and read through the comments and I still come up empty when attempting to formulate a coherent response to such idiocy on such a monumental scale.
I think my brain is broke. I'm going to bed. G'night, all.
C'est quoi ce putain de bordel ?!
You're welcome.
Merci beaucoup.
Even after several hours mulling this over, I still can't quite get my head around this level of control lust. First they deny abortion access, then they start going after contraception, so women can't even avoid pregnancy in the first place. Although after Roe fell, I saw that second one coming.
Now even people who want children but can't conceive will be subject to government denial if these penis swingers get their way. That one I did not see coming because I thought these fuckers wanted to force women to bear as many children as humanly possible before they dropped dead.
Now these batshit crazy fuckers want to inject themselves and their dicktums* into one of the most painful and private areas of a couple's life together -- the inability to conceive -- and deny them even the possibility of a family of their own.
This takes the shit cake and slathers diarrhea frosting on it.
Not only does it make no sense given that they want women to breed like rabbits...but also the sheer epic level of unmitigated brass ball hubris exceeding everything I've seen from these assholes up until now just floors me.
* Intentionally misspelled.
Not only does it make no sense given that they want 𝒘𝒉𝒊𝒕𝒆 women to breed like rabbits...
FIFY
Thanks. Can't believe I forgot that. It was in my head when I was typing.
What an ass. My wife and I had 2 IVF procedures. Neither resulted in viable embryos so we moved on to adoption, which worked out just fine. But embryos ain’t people dood!
A loving WHITE HETERO CHRISTIAN COUPLE who use IVF are totes AGAINST "God's Plan" but two young girls getting their papa drunk so that they can rape him is just fine with sky daddy.
"drunk"
That's Lot's excuse, but I find it really hard to believe you could be so drunk as to not recognize your own daughter, but still able to get it up.
His ACUVUE® delivery was delayed because of his recent change of address.
If you are that blind, you have to wear glasses to walk if you don't have your contacts. (I know from personal experience, before the cataract surgery I navigated mostly by echo location :)
Mysterious ways.
Pastor Musty is the reason we keep church and state separate. The 7 Key Founders saw guys like this coming and refused to give them a seat at the table of governance.