Sure, let's go all out and teach Christian history in school.
And when I say Christian history, I mean all of it. This includes Theodosius I making Christianity the state religion of Rome and punishing apostasy with death. Let's talk about what Christians did when they achieved state power and began their reign of terror (I'm thinking of what Christians did to Hypatia and how their destruction of the Library of Alexandria set humankind back a thousand years or so).
By all means, let's teach the students all about the nearly 4 centuries of the Inquisitions, the nearly 2 centuries of the Crusades, the 3 centuries of the Medieval Witch Hunts, the Conquistadores, the convert-or-die missionaries in the "New World," the Puritans, the Christian-based KKK, the Christian-based Nazis, the pogroms, etc. bloody etc. Documented Christian history is a story of terror, torture, death and destruction.
How is this different from what was taught in Oklahoma 3-4 decades ago? I can't believe how superficial the teaching of the Trail of Tears was and how they did everything they could to suppress any emotional reaction to it. Then there was re-enacting the Land Run like it was a good thing, rather than stealing land from the Native Americans that we had forced them onto. Oklahoma still prides itself on its history as Indian Territory. And of course the Gideons were allowed to pass out NTs to school children, even in elementary school.
Are they going to mention the fact that the first 6 Presidents were Deists? The first orthodox Christian President was Andrew Jackson, a bloodthirsty racist.
The 7 Key Founding Fathers were (in alphabetical order) John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and George Washington. Of those 7, only ONE was an orthodox Christian (Jay). Hamilton was Christian only when it was convenient. The rest of the time, he ignored his religion.
The rest of them were Deists. And as we all know through their own writings, Deists neither liked nor trusted Christians.
First commandment - “You shall have no other gods before Me”
First Amendment - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Gosh, how very surprising that he doesn't want Jefferson included. A few choice quotes:
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva from the brain of Jupiter.
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded upon fables and mythologies.
And of course Thomas Paine's status as a Founder is debatable, but just for completeness' sake:
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.
In your letter of the twentieth of March, you give me several quotations from the Bible, which you call the Word of God, to show me that my opinions on religion are wrong, and I could give you as many, from the same book to show that yours are not right; consequently, then, the Bible decides nothing, because it decides any way, and every way, one chooses to make it.
As long as the teacher isn’t a lying pos evangelical, this law would change nothing because the standards already ask teachers to provide all that and there’s no influence from the religion/Ten Commandments and blah blah blah except to influence the founding fathers to avoid religious influence in government. But Bullard is counting on lying pos evangelical teachers to educate according to The Liar Barton’s corrupted history books that even Christian publishers don’t back. The Liar Barton does not have the credentials or brainpower to teach history, we should not be going to him for policy on the subject. Anyone who chooses to is not qualified to be dog catcher let alone a legislator.
ALL religions should be taught in history classes in school as HISTORY and what influence it had/has on culture/art and music etc.. That has nothing to do with induction of FAITH.
NO religion gets to decide or declare what is and isn't true or a fact, NO religion gets to decide or declare what is or isn't moral, that's just reality, but in the US, it's also the law by dent of the 1st Amend. establishment clause. These religious zealots really are incapable of comprehending this. I bet many or even most believe something along the lines of 'of course it's unconstitutional to enact laws based on some religion's creeds and dogmas, but our religion is actually the real, true religion, what we're doing isn't actually religious, it's all justified by objective rationales.' Or, as one moron tired to tell me, 'we're not trying to force our religion on everyone, we're trying to save them'. Unbelievable arrogance stemming from profound ignorance and inability to think critically combined with absolute certainty about everything, a disastrous combination.
Christians want to teach a lie to our children. It isn't really a surprise, is it? Their religion is based on make believe, mythology, fear, and hatred.
-- John Adams, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965), p. 258]
The bill says specific quotes must be used, which quotes would those be? Are they listed in another part of the bill? Or are they supposed to be gleaned by the teachers through context clues? Like which quotes by those specific founders ought to be used? The ones that they proudly proclaimed and included in public discourse and official documents, or the ones that only Barton is aware of through their private correspondence to their super religious families?
“Oh yes, dear Auntie, I will absolutely ensure the government requires your young niece to dress modestly and be the most chaste darling to ever grace the earth. Don’t worry my dear, you will be the best matron of your church parish. “. Will become “Madison supported the entire Levitical Liturgy be the law of the land and enforced by parish priests on all within the bounds of their territory” by this ridiculous rule. Ignoring the fact that the original (I made it up but this seems to be the tact of the liar Barton [not an historian] and his ilk) was an attempt to placate a religious family member and not a policy stance of the founder himself.
But I’m curious to see what these founding fathers said that will be forced into the miseducation of future generations.
Sure, let's go all out and teach Christian history in school.
And when I say Christian history, I mean all of it. This includes Theodosius I making Christianity the state religion of Rome and punishing apostasy with death. Let's talk about what Christians did when they achieved state power and began their reign of terror (I'm thinking of what Christians did to Hypatia and how their destruction of the Library of Alexandria set humankind back a thousand years or so).
By all means, let's teach the students all about the nearly 4 centuries of the Inquisitions, the nearly 2 centuries of the Crusades, the 3 centuries of the Medieval Witch Hunts, the Conquistadores, the convert-or-die missionaries in the "New World," the Puritans, the Christian-based KKK, the Christian-based Nazis, the pogroms, etc. bloody etc. Documented Christian history is a story of terror, torture, death and destruction.
How is this different from what was taught in Oklahoma 3-4 decades ago? I can't believe how superficial the teaching of the Trail of Tears was and how they did everything they could to suppress any emotional reaction to it. Then there was re-enacting the Land Run like it was a good thing, rather than stealing land from the Native Americans that we had forced them onto. Oklahoma still prides itself on its history as Indian Territory. And of course the Gideons were allowed to pass out NTs to school children, even in elementary school.
I can't help but notice that Bully-boy didn't mention Thomas Paine, and I sorta wonder why. Do you suppose it could be because of quotes like this?
𝘈𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘰𝘰𝘬 𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘉𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘦, 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘱𝘩𝘦𝘮𝘺 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘎𝘰𝘥. 𝘐𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘢 𝘣𝘰𝘰𝘬 𝘰𝘧 𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢 𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘳𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘢𝘥 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘣𝘢𝘥 𝘮𝘦𝘯. 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘢 𝘧𝘦𝘸 𝘨𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘦 𝘣𝘰𝘰𝘬.
-- Thomas Paine
Are they going to mention the fact that the first 6 Presidents were Deists? The first orthodox Christian President was Andrew Jackson, a bloodthirsty racist.
Founding Fathers, is it? Let's see...
The 7 Key Founding Fathers were (in alphabetical order) John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and George Washington. Of those 7, only ONE was an orthodox Christian (Jay). Hamilton was Christian only when it was convenient. The rest of the time, he ignored his religion.
The rest of them were Deists. And as we all know through their own writings, Deists neither liked nor trusted Christians.
OT - The goose stepping never stops in DeNazi's Florida
𝐅𝐥𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐚 𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐥𝐞𝐭𝐞𝐬 𝐦𝐚𝐲 𝐬𝐨𝐨𝐧 𝐛𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐮𝐛𝐦𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐚𝐥 𝐡𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐲 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐥𝐬
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/florida-athletes-may-soon-be-required-to-submit-their-menstrual-history-to-schools/ar-AA172WNS
First commandment - “You shall have no other gods before Me”
First Amendment - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Incompatible.
OT: Welcome to the 1980s: https://www.wonkette.com/tennessee-to-only-prevent-treat-hiv-aids-in-nice-people-not-those-sinners
Gosh, how very surprising that he doesn't want Jefferson included. A few choice quotes:
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva from the brain of Jupiter.
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded upon fables and mythologies.
And of course Thomas Paine's status as a Founder is debatable, but just for completeness' sake:
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.
In your letter of the twentieth of March, you give me several quotations from the Bible, which you call the Word of God, to show me that my opinions on religion are wrong, and I could give you as many, from the same book to show that yours are not right; consequently, then, the Bible decides nothing, because it decides any way, and every way, one chooses to make it.
As long as the teacher isn’t a lying pos evangelical, this law would change nothing because the standards already ask teachers to provide all that and there’s no influence from the religion/Ten Commandments and blah blah blah except to influence the founding fathers to avoid religious influence in government. But Bullard is counting on lying pos evangelical teachers to educate according to The Liar Barton’s corrupted history books that even Christian publishers don’t back. The Liar Barton does not have the credentials or brainpower to teach history, we should not be going to him for policy on the subject. Anyone who chooses to is not qualified to be dog catcher let alone a legislator.
ALL religions should be taught in history classes in school as HISTORY and what influence it had/has on culture/art and music etc.. That has nothing to do with induction of FAITH.
NO religion gets to decide or declare what is and isn't true or a fact, NO religion gets to decide or declare what is or isn't moral, that's just reality, but in the US, it's also the law by dent of the 1st Amend. establishment clause. These religious zealots really are incapable of comprehending this. I bet many or even most believe something along the lines of 'of course it's unconstitutional to enact laws based on some religion's creeds and dogmas, but our religion is actually the real, true religion, what we're doing isn't actually religious, it's all justified by objective rationales.' Or, as one moron tired to tell me, 'we're not trying to force our religion on everyone, we're trying to save them'. Unbelievable arrogance stemming from profound ignorance and inability to think critically combined with absolute certainty about everything, a disastrous combination.
Christians want to teach a lie to our children. It isn't really a surprise, is it? Their religion is based on make believe, mythology, fear, and hatred.
Oh, and if we want to deal with the founding fathers Bullard actually mentions, how about the following:
𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘜𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘚𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘈𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘦𝘹𝘩𝘪𝘣𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘥, 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘴, 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘴𝘵 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘨𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦; 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘧 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘸 𝘴𝘶𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘦𝘯𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘢𝘣𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘷𝘦𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘦, 𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦, 𝘩𝘺𝘱𝘰𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘺, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘢 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘳𝘺. 𝘈𝘭𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘭 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘈𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘨𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘢𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘵𝘭𝘦 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘢𝘳𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘌𝘶𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘦 𝘰𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘈𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘢, 𝘪𝘵 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘢𝘯 𝘰𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘺. 𝘐𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘯𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘣𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘦𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘰𝘺𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘥 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘪𝘦𝘸𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘥𝘴, 𝘰𝘳 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘥𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘦 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘧𝘭𝘶𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘏𝘦𝘢𝘷𝘦𝘯, 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘢𝘵 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬 𝘶𝘱𝘰𝘯 𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘴, 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘦 𝘰𝘳 𝘢𝘨𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦; 𝘪𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘣𝘦 𝘢𝘤𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸𝘭𝘦𝘥𝘨𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘥 𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘣𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘴.
-- John Adams, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965), p. 258]
Does anyone know what the hell is going on? Is Only Sky going pear-shaped? It would be nice to be told.
The bill says specific quotes must be used, which quotes would those be? Are they listed in another part of the bill? Or are they supposed to be gleaned by the teachers through context clues? Like which quotes by those specific founders ought to be used? The ones that they proudly proclaimed and included in public discourse and official documents, or the ones that only Barton is aware of through their private correspondence to their super religious families?
“Oh yes, dear Auntie, I will absolutely ensure the government requires your young niece to dress modestly and be the most chaste darling to ever grace the earth. Don’t worry my dear, you will be the best matron of your church parish. “. Will become “Madison supported the entire Levitical Liturgy be the law of the land and enforced by parish priests on all within the bounds of their territory” by this ridiculous rule. Ignoring the fact that the original (I made it up but this seems to be the tact of the liar Barton [not an historian] and his ilk) was an attempt to placate a religious family member and not a policy stance of the founder himself.
But I’m curious to see what these founding fathers said that will be forced into the miseducation of future generations.