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RegularJoe's avatar

"It shouldn’t be lost on anyone that the leader of the Republican Party is a person who allegedly paid someone to take his SATs for him, is currently on his third marriage, and ignored his children when they were younger."

And those are his better qualities. 😉

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Boreal's avatar

He's also a pedophile, rapist and tax cheat.

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dammit barry's avatar

But he is a rich asshole. RHAT is a success to kkkons

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oraxx's avatar

There are a great many people who, through no fault of their own, have been dealt terrible hands in life. People who have had the deck stacked against them from birth. This measure smacks of the old, worn-out idea that a person's lack of success is their own fault, and a clear sign they do not have God's favor. If this was a good program for children the Heritage Foundation wouldn't be supporting it. Their goal is the creation of a permanent American underclass, forever under the boot-heels of those who were born to rule.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

And that whole process has been exacerbated by the movement of wealth from the middle class to the one percent.

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oraxx's avatar

That's what supply-side (Trickle down) economics was all about. It was never intended to boost the economy.

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Linda's avatar

Correct. But all those classic Christmas movies told me poor people are happy and ok with being poor?

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

So was the opinion of people like Sam Goldwyn, Louis Mayer, and Jack Warner, none of whom likely knew fuck-all about characters such as George Bailey.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

The little-known “lost ending” of “It’s a Wonderful Life” introduced by William Shatner

youtu.be/vw89o0afb2A

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oraxx's avatar

Another cherished right wing myth.

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Eric's avatar

Why is marriage pointed to as a stepping stone for success when half of all marriages end in divorce? That's a failure rate of 50%. That can't possibly promote success.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Actor/writer/director/producer/musician Seth MacFarlane is quite successful and has never been married.

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Joe King's avatar

Their next bill? Making divorce illegal.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Good luck on that one, eh? Xtians didn’t invent marriage and they don’t own it.

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ericc's avatar
2hEdited

I don't think marriage is part of the sequence on it's own, it's mentioned only in relation to children. I.e. 'married then have children' typically makes more money and avoids poverty better than 'unmarried has children.' Because of course, you have two adults in the mix taking care of one child. That means fewer costs associated with childcare (if one of them does the childcare) or more money to pay for it (if both work instead), or some mix of those two solutions.

But note marriage as an institution adds nothing to that mix; what's really causing the benefit is the sharing of childcare costs and duties between two adults. Could be unmarried couple. Could be man and woman or woman and woman or man and man. Could be divorced parents working together. Heck, could be an extended family situation i.e. parent and grandparent, parent and sibling, etc.

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Maltnothops's avatar

I am frankly surprised their formula did not specify marriage to someone of the opposite sex.

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Maltnothops's avatar

The leading cause of divorce is….marriage. No marriage, no divorce. Easy peasy.

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Eric's avatar

I know. Took me twice to figure that out.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I have a great track record on marriage. I’ve never tied the knot. No divorces.

Ah, sweet untroubled bachelorhood.

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larry parker's avatar

I'm glad Ohio has solved all their other problems so they cane waste time on this nonsense.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

The hell of it is, I've spent most of my life in the Buckeye State, and I love it here. I've moved away from my original hometown of Cleveland, but I'm only an hour away from its rich cultural life and eclectic population.

Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati are patches of blue in a state forced RED by Republicans who care for power and influence more than they do serving Ohioans.

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ericc's avatar

Alternative success sequence:

1. Student learns how to critically analyze when a claim is based on correlation vs. causation.

2. Student learns how to critically analyze when a condition is necessary, sufficient, or neither. Importantly recognizing that many conditions fall under 'neither'.

3. Student is taught how to distinguish partisan rhetoric and anecdote from methodologically well-conducted science.

4. Student applies 1-3 to the Ohio lesson.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

5. Student learns that life is a collection of vagaries and that there is no guarantee of success.

6. Student learns to recognize change and adapt and flex to the world around him or her, and that the ability to "do the dance" is at least one tool which may nurture success.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Let's run the numbers, shall we?'

The state that gave us John Glenn and Neil Armstrong now ranks 38th overall, 41st in natural environment, 30th in education overall (and 41st in higher education), 39th in economy, 34th in health care, 30th in crime and corrections, 30th in infrastructure and 25th in fiscal stability,

Nothing for the Buckeye State to brag about. It appears they have a raft of problems that need addressing. They shouldn't be wasting time and taxpayer dollars on ludicrous legislation like this.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

It's worth keeping in mind, too, that the state has been in Republican hands since 1991, when Dick Celeste was governor. He was a decent guy and the state was reliably purple back then. Since that time, we've had Voinovich, Kasich, and now DeWine.

And yeah, the path HAS been downhill.

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Mark In Colorado's avatar

I always found it counterintuitive that a Midwest state also gave us Les Wexner (Victoria’s Secret, Arthur Shapiro death in questionable circumstances, relationship with Epstein, involvement in that airline that was a CIA front moving to Ohio, accusations of abuse work environment, etc). Ok, just so you know, I spent a lot of time in Ohio for business, and there are many good people there.

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Boreal's avatar
1hEdited

“Success Sequence” involves doing three specific things: ̶C̶o̶m̶p̶l̶e̶t̶e̶ ̶“̶a̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶s̶c̶h̶o̶o̶l̶ ̶e̶d̶u̶c̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶,̶”̶ ̶“̶o̶b̶t̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶f̶u̶l̶l̶-̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶,̶”̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶“̶m̶a̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶f̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶c̶h̶i̶l̶d̶r̶e̶n̶.̶”̶ Funding early childhood education, Supporting parents and children living in poverty with food assistance and social services including family planning, teaching children critical thinking skills from grades 1-12.

FIFY, Ohio GQP cult of rape, blame and shame.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Let us also note that it has been the Republican party that has pushed the idea of vouchers and "School Choice," which has only served to weaken the public school systems that have been subjected to that idiocy, without really IMPROVING education at all.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I wonder if it has occurred to Senator Cutrona that there are PLENTY of people who got a high school education, found work, and married before having children, and STILL wound up either in poverty or in a home situation that was financially and/or emotionally untenable. This is the brand of reductionist, simplistic thinking that the Republican party has been indulging in entirely to much lately.

And they need to be called on it.

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oraxx's avatar

There are also people who had their lives handed to them on golden platters and still managed to fail at everything.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

IZZAT a fact? Wow! Do you actually KNOW of anyone like that? [giggle-giggle ... GUFFAW!]

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oraxx's avatar

One in particular, and I've known several. I had high school classmates who pretty well peaked out in life at 18.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I hear you, and I've known a couple, myself. As you may have guessed, I was thinking of a certain occupant of a certain House at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW.

And your mention of "peaking at 18" reminds me of the Ballad of Brenda and Eddie and that wonderful story that Billy Joel tells so well.

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Joe King's avatar

If he has, he does not care. After all, (in his mind) if you have done all those things and ate still poor and abused by your spouse, it's because you're a filthy sinner who deserves it.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

Modern Conservatism has been on a long march to Authoritarianism and Theofascism. Their primary tenets have been that there are easy, simple answers to life's complex situations and if you would just do as I say (not as I do) you too can be successful... if you are a white man. They find the whole concept of the Common Welfare distasteful and would be perfectly happy in the Dickensian picture of Victorian Society.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

𝑈𝑛𝑙𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑤𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑚, 𝑢𝑛𝑙𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑤𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑜𝑤 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑙𝑦, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑦 𝑤𝑒 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒.

-- Major Frank Burns, 4077th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital

I sometimes wonder if Larry Linville had a grasp of just what he was saying then. Yeah, I know that he was NOT "Frank Burns," which makes his ability to give that line with a straight face all the more impressive.

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Maltnothops's avatar

I came to think that Linville was a great actor. Offhand, I can’t think of anything else I’ve seen him in and I find that strange.

ETA: looked him up on Wiki. Lots of one-time appearances on shows like Love Boat and some shows that didn’t last.

Also, married 5 times.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

No one is talking about the elephant in the room. The model of success they’re promoting with specific emphasis on getting married and having children is historically oppressive to women. Every policy the right is trying to pursue in regards to so many aspects of life, but especially marriage, women are being shoved back into the artificial box that was the 1950s middle class propaganda we see today. The Leave it to Beaver life everybody lived back then. June was fine, but our actual grandmothers were not. There was physical abuse, systemic societal as well as individual financial abuse, women were drugged and lobotomized, or turned to drugs and alcohol to bear the trauma of those lives. This formula they are trying to legislate means that women are thrown back into maintaining households rather than having careers, because they’re not stopping with this. They’re actively working to eliminate our right to vote, no-fault divorce, financial independence, and even work outside the home. The SAVE act puts up real barriers to women voting. The end of Roe v. Wade means they can be baby trapped into marriage to meet the requirements of this success model, then face decades of forced reproduction until her body gives out.

Sure, finishing high school, possibly further education, finding a full time job, partnering with another person, then having kids does improve odds of success. But if the partner you chose, or was chosen for you or forced on you because …pregnant, doesn’t actually like you and thinks of you only as a bang maid, no it’s not a success.

But you can’t argue these types of things in legislatures, you have to pretend these abuses, this oppression doesn’t really exist. You have to massage the egos of the majority older white men who run shit so they don’t get upset that they’re the fucking problem and why there are so many struggling people. Because these men are fragile little ticking time bombs. Well, they’ve already blown up. Fucking Bitch.

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ericc's avatar
27mEdited

It's the Heritage Foundation. They see most of those things as positives, not negatives.

As someone on this thread as well as many many many other people have said before, if Ohio really wants to prevent the spiral of early single pregnancies leading to drop outs and poverty-ridden life outcomes, (1) teach comprehensive sex ed and (2) make prophylaxis readily and cheaply available.

They know what works. They just reject it because it leads to more and better educated women in the workforce, and who have fewer children later in life.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Damned well said, Val!

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Kay-El's avatar

I didn’t follow that sequence at all and had a successful career, traveled, married, divorced, one kid with a PhD and another getting their Masters. (Insert gif of thumbing my nose at the Ohio lege here).

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Joe King's avatar

𝐴𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑜𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑛𝑜𝑡𝑒𝑑, “𝑂ℎ𝑖𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑤𝑖𝑑𝑒 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ 𝑐𝑢𝑟𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑢𝑚 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑠.” 𝑆𝑜 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑏𝑙𝑒𝑚𝑠, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑡𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑐ℎ𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑎𝑐ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡’𝑠 𝑓𝑢𝑙𝑙 𝑜𝑓 ℎ𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑠.

They don't want statewide health curriculum standards. That would entail teaching kids comprehensive sex education. Instead they want to teach the kids that the only possible way to be successful in life is to follow the quiverfull playbook. Man marries woman and works his ass off to pay the bills while the woman stays in the kitchen pushing out babies, all while indoctrinating them to stay inside the narrow little boxes that their far right Christianity defines. If the family ends up poor, so what? That's just more desperate workers who will slave away for pennies 80 hours a week.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

This is my home state, where the people told Mike DeWine and the Republicans that they wanted available abortion care in no uncertain terms, then those same Republicans did their damnedest to try to make abortions harder to get.

These fuckers seem to be able only to listen to themselves and not the people.

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ericc's avatar

Well when people vote for them regardless of what they do, why should they listen?

One of the major problems with the strong partisanship we have now is that it reduces elected leaders' need to do what constituents want. If nothing matters except the (D) or (R) next to your name on the ballot, you can do what you want in office.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

I have to wonder how many rural voters are just voting knee-jerk. They see the (R), and that's where their vote goes. They don't even bother to look at the actions of those they put into office, but they're perfectly willing to bitch about the circumstances they live under.

It's a rather frightening level of cluelessness.

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Kay-El's avatar

They know what’s better for you than you do. 🙄

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

SUUUUUUUUURE they do. I don't think they want to try that shit on me. They won't like the consequences.

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RegularJoe's avatar

Completely OT: Yes, there actually is a computer programming language called Brainfuck. (Wonder how "Proficient in C++, Brainfuck, Ada..." would look on a resume? 🤔)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Probably better than my CV, with specialties in FORTRAN, QuickBASIC, and dBase! 😝

All three of those self-taught, BTW!

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NOGODZ20's avatar
1hEdited

No COBOL? ;)

Edited

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Never got into COBOL, though I think I may have looked at some code ages back. I cut my teeth on Case Algol back in college, then PDP-8 machine code (which I got pretty good at!), then FORTRAN much later.

I did fool around with C a bit. Hell, my "Learn C in 21 Days" is sitting on my file cabinet next to me. It never really stuck with me, though, and didn't use it much.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I goofed. Meant COBOL. Have edited.

(sorry. it's been a long time)

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Yeah, I figured that was what you meant. No worries!

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Old Man Shadow's avatar

We have evidence that points to the causes of poverty. It doesn't matter because they choose the myth of American capitalism over evidence.

We have plenty of evidence and studies on how to help the poor. It doesn't matter because they choose the myth of American capitalism over evidence.

We have plenty of quotations from their holy book about the need for caring for the poor, helping the sick, and striving to build a just society even from the person they call the omniscient and omnipotent god of the universe. It doesn't matter because they choose greed over compassion.

They worship power and they worship money. That is their true religion and nothing will shake them from that because they don't want to be compassionate and share or surrender their power and privilege over others.

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Linda's avatar

And who benefits from this scenario? It’s certainly not women. These poor excuses for men with a demented view of masculinity (as in to dominate) want to enslave women and keep them out of the workforce.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Alessandro Cutthroata himself has only been married for 8 months (May 10th of last year, to be exact). He's hardly had the time to see if his marriage is successful.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Marriages can go in all sorts of directions over a decade or three. What a shame that Cutrona cannot be bothered to recognize that possibility.

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dammit barry's avatar

The authoritarian says "You made youur bed, now sleep in i. Of course, growing up poor means fewer possibilities. Being born into wealth gives you a whole hell of a lot better chance of success as your money clears obstacles that stymy others.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

What the authoritarian fails to recognize is that those "beds" are frequently MADE for those who sleep in them, made by foolish policies such as "trickle-down economics" and union-busting behaviors by governments that have forgotten about the people they are supposed to serve.

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Jeff van Weereld's avatar

Generally speaking, Republican reps and senators are bigger assholes than democrats. Only generally speaking!

😉

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