When there is a fire and people die, make sure the judge is charge with accessory to manslaughter and negligence along with the church. For this judge should bear some responsibility for any deaths should there be a fire!
Most lower courts seem to make the appropriate decisions, but it's the higher courts, who are supposed to generally give deference to the lower courts under ordinary circumstances, that keep overturning their wise decisions, with the highest courts of all making the most unwise, anticonstitutional decisions. Once upon a time, judges were assumed to be wise, judicious people. That time has long passed.
The very simple solution would have been for the church to address the zoning code violations, and get the church up to code. This is not about "anti-Christian discrimination". If a building (church or not) has code violations, it's up to the organization housed in that building to make necessary repairs.
- Improper installation of laundry facilities can lead to indoor flooding (from a washing machine) or carbon monoxide poisoning (improperly vented dryer).
- Marking exit areas is an easy fix.
- An LP cylinder for a gas grill placed inside a building will produce carbon monoxide, which can kill.
- Plastic ducts should NEVER be used with a gas dryer: major fire hazard.
- Kitchens MUST be ventilated.
Fixing this stuff is easy, low-lying fruit.
I'm a progressive Christian, and I attend a progressive church which provides active assistance to the homeless: providing meals, a place for homeless people to stay during cold weather, laundry facilities; a nurse practitioner to address health problems; a clothing bank; bus passes; helping to get people necessary IDs so they can prove who they are and get other needed services. We're already in deep winter: we're in for the long haul until at least April.
We had our kitchen, our laundry facilities, and the room where the homeless sleep checked and inspected to make sure everything was in code. Where we had to make upgrades, we made upgrades. We applied for, and received a grant to help with the upgrades and to provide services until the weather warms.
Homeless people have a hard enough life: the last thing we want to do is to kill a dozen people because we're too lazy or too inept to keep our facilities up to code!
I don't see what the problem was with Dad's Place: they could simply have addressed the zoning violations and corrected the problems. They could have applied for a grant to fix things which needed to be brought up to code. Instead, Dad's Place selfishly made this a problem about them "being persecuted" - and a judge bought into it.
If people at Dad's Place die from carbon monoxide poisoning or a fire because Charles Avell didn't address code violations and make needed repairs, then both Avell and the judge who enabled Avell's behavior should be charged with (at minimum) reckless manslaughter or (at worst) second-degree murder.
The key to the story is that all these fixes cost money. They should have NEVER been able to set up shop in the first place in that zoning district. The problem has now snowballed out of control and is downright dangerous.
Totally agree. There were several ways that Dad's Place and Charles Avell could have addressed those problems, including getting a zoning variance AHEAD of time and applying for grants to address the violations (lack of ventilation, LP gas grill in an enclosed area, no hood over the stove, plastic ductwork coming from a gas dryer, etc.). I know, from direct experience, that there IS money out there to help fix these kinds of problems; but one has to PLAN AHEAD, address, and remediate problems before they reach the level of legal action.
An LP gas grill and plastic ductwork from a gas dryer isn't going to end up well. I think we're going to be hearing more from Dad's Place -- as a mass casualty event.
Sure, things SHOULD be dealt with according to state and local regulations ... right up to the point where Christian Privilege comes in to insist on its way or the highway. This is made worse by those officials who SHOULD be responsible for upholding those same rules and regulations, doing their damnedest to wriggle their way around them, because religion. Time and again, we see religion getting unwarranted favoritism, and occasionally we see the untoward consequences of that favoritism.
Yet the essential message has yet to come through ... and it may not until someone gets hurt.
And you'll find absolutely NO disagreement coming from me on your comments!
It's why we had the inspections done, and got our facility brought up to code before we took in people who needed shelter. That's basic human decency -- something which seems to have flown out the window with Trump, MAGA and Christian Nationalism.
It always conveniently becomes "Christian persecution" when they get held up to the same standards as the rest of us by being asked to do things they don't wanna do. Cue the toddler tantrum.
They're acting like privileged, white evangelical Christians who don't have to follow the same laws and same rules which everybody else is expected to abide by.
I'm so completely on board with this, with y'all: I have gotten MORE than tired of privileged, evangelical Christian bullshit.
(Just for the record: I've gotten death threats from evangelical Christians after I've stood up to them and confronted them on their shenanigans. Any more, I just blow it off. The vast majority of them are keyboard warriors, but absolute chickenshit in person.)
I think everyone is missing the point. The pastor just wants to help everyone get to heaven faster and what better way than a building full of accidents waiting to happen.
“That December, an attorney for the group, Ryan Gardner, wrote in the Columbus Dispatch about how city officials “put Ebenezer Scrooge to shame.””
“Indeed, it is unclear if even visits from the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future would cause the city to change course.”
Sorry, but the city isn’t the one being like Scrooge here. The church is choosing not to spend money on safety precautions and what is needed for comfort. Scrooge was disliked because he wouldn’t heat the office, provide days off, allow for Cratchet to attend to his sick child, he saw these things as a waste of money. These are things that make a safe environment, keeping the workers from hypothermia, allowing care to the sick and getting actual rest are all imperative for a life worth living. The city is telling the church that providing a safe environment, proper installation of gas lines, safe bedding with clear access to exits, and a sprinkler system are not asking too much, and the church is choosing not to fund these practical safety measures, a la Scrooge. The city is Marley in this metaphor.
Regarding the sprinklers, the church has had a couple of summers where closing for a few weeks to install the system when it won’t put the folks requiring the shelter into dire weather conditions. This was something that they could have done if they wanted to, but didn’t out of spite it seems.
If the people are coming to the shelter to sleep, then absolutely, whether there are cots and bedding present or not, the shelter is a sleeping area. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to argue otherwise. Where are these judges getting their ideas? That is rhetorical, I know they’re just trying to be Christian nationalists and give right wing churches ridiculous privileges for power reasons.
Let’s remember the folks in the shelter are people, and as such deserve dignity and safety, something this church is ignoring.
With all of the time, energy, and money first liberty spent on this, they could simply have paid for whatever needed to be done, or gotten one pf their rich donors to pay for it. This could have happened sometime ago.
But they chose to pretend religious persecution instead.
This is why I don’t donate to anything affiliated with religion.
City: We want you to help the homeless. We just want to make sure they don't burn to death if there's a fire.
Church: Telling us to follow the rules is persecution cuz you hate Jesus! Besides, if those homeless people burn up in a fire they probably deserved it for being lazy evil sinners for being homeless in the first place.
When they aren't actively abusing people, they make a big show of pretending to care, and any attempt to get them to follow rules that 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘦𝘭𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘧𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘰𝘸 gets them persecution points from the rubes.
And now, thanks to Christian Fucking Privilege, a judge wants to take extra steps to ensure religious toes aren't stepped on. Nevermind that that was already being done, because "If the business chooses not to comply, a fire inspector can and will bar the doors. We chose not to do this, specifically because we did not want to violate the church’s right to religious freedom."
Can we please, please, 𝗽𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘀𝗲 end Christian Fucking Privilege now?
Once again we have a poor innocent Christian being persecuted for his faith by the Godless left. The preacher is, of course, as pure and innocent as a new born babe. Zoning laws are there to protect people and property. Is this the only possible solution this guy could find to address homelessness? Looks to me like he's more interested in playing the victim than solving an actual problem.
What I’m getting from this and other recent decisions, although I can’t think of one specifically right now, is that our judiciary is enabling religions to do anything they want as long as they claim it is part of their religious beliefs. “Housing homeless is part of my religion so zoning regs don’t apply to me.” How long until “Owning people as property is part of my religion.”
This is the dangerous mindset. "Oh, it's religion and they mean so well. We don't HAVE to observe all those niggling rules and regulations so that they can do some good."
And again, I have to wonder what would have been the reaction to an untoward event.
I'm waiting for the day when sexual abuse becomes a religious freedom. Officially, that is, it's already just about there unofficially. You know, so pastors can 'teach' young people about how to handle marriage and what the expectations will be.
Why yes, I do think that light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train, why do you ask?
It's like the guards at the concentration camps who would go home, play with their children, read them bedtime stories, make love to their wives, and then go to work the next day, participating in the holocaust.
And let's not forget that they would complain about the smell from the ovens, making it hard for them to eat their lunches.
Gandalf has more compassion, empathy, and human decency than goddybitch! Remember what he told Frodo about how he feels pity for gollum, and that Frodo should not be so eager to kill. Unlike goddybitch who revels in killing and causing pain to humans.
Now that I look closer it does resemble somewhat Gandalf of the movies, but Gandalf is still morally superior than goddybitch/jeezyboy/flying turd (it the trio of fuckwits actually existed).
About five years ago, there was an explosion in the town over from me that took out an entire building, and damaged more surrounding it. Pretty sure it was a restaurant and was caused by the gas line. This is a business that followed the regulations, but the builders missed a label. Now imagine what could happen with an improperly installed gas line. This isn’t some vague what if when the city decides to enforce the regulations, this is real, the consequences could be devastating. The arcade, with all the homeless people inside could also damage the neighboring shelter and all the people there as well, if something were to happen. The explosion leveled the building, like took it down to rubble in an instant, there’s no firefighting to keep the building up, the debris went blocks damaging other buildings.
It is good that the city is taking this seriously, the church should do the same.
Since there have been several OTs, I offer one here:
Today is the day back in 1980 that a born-again Christian named Mark David Chapman assassinated John Lennon.
Chapman's next parole hearing will be in February 2027 (his most recent request for parole in September was denied). The now-70 year old Chapman has been denied parole 14 times since 2000. If Yoko has her way, Chapman will never see freedom again.
When there is a fire and people die, make sure the judge is charge with accessory to manslaughter and negligence along with the church. For this judge should bear some responsibility for any deaths should there be a fire!
They’ll just throw out the “God’s will” excuse and get away with it.
Most lower courts seem to make the appropriate decisions, but it's the higher courts, who are supposed to generally give deference to the lower courts under ordinary circumstances, that keep overturning their wise decisions, with the highest courts of all making the most unwise, anticonstitutional decisions. Once upon a time, judges were assumed to be wise, judicious people. That time has long passed.
The very simple solution would have been for the church to address the zoning code violations, and get the church up to code. This is not about "anti-Christian discrimination". If a building (church or not) has code violations, it's up to the organization housed in that building to make necessary repairs.
- Improper installation of laundry facilities can lead to indoor flooding (from a washing machine) or carbon monoxide poisoning (improperly vented dryer).
- Marking exit areas is an easy fix.
- An LP cylinder for a gas grill placed inside a building will produce carbon monoxide, which can kill.
- Plastic ducts should NEVER be used with a gas dryer: major fire hazard.
- Kitchens MUST be ventilated.
Fixing this stuff is easy, low-lying fruit.
I'm a progressive Christian, and I attend a progressive church which provides active assistance to the homeless: providing meals, a place for homeless people to stay during cold weather, laundry facilities; a nurse practitioner to address health problems; a clothing bank; bus passes; helping to get people necessary IDs so they can prove who they are and get other needed services. We're already in deep winter: we're in for the long haul until at least April.
We had our kitchen, our laundry facilities, and the room where the homeless sleep checked and inspected to make sure everything was in code. Where we had to make upgrades, we made upgrades. We applied for, and received a grant to help with the upgrades and to provide services until the weather warms.
Homeless people have a hard enough life: the last thing we want to do is to kill a dozen people because we're too lazy or too inept to keep our facilities up to code!
I don't see what the problem was with Dad's Place: they could simply have addressed the zoning violations and corrected the problems. They could have applied for a grant to fix things which needed to be brought up to code. Instead, Dad's Place selfishly made this a problem about them "being persecuted" - and a judge bought into it.
If people at Dad's Place die from carbon monoxide poisoning or a fire because Charles Avell didn't address code violations and make needed repairs, then both Avell and the judge who enabled Avell's behavior should be charged with (at minimum) reckless manslaughter or (at worst) second-degree murder.
The key to the story is that all these fixes cost money. They should have NEVER been able to set up shop in the first place in that zoning district. The problem has now snowballed out of control and is downright dangerous.
Totally agree. There were several ways that Dad's Place and Charles Avell could have addressed those problems, including getting a zoning variance AHEAD of time and applying for grants to address the violations (lack of ventilation, LP gas grill in an enclosed area, no hood over the stove, plastic ductwork coming from a gas dryer, etc.). I know, from direct experience, that there IS money out there to help fix these kinds of problems; but one has to PLAN AHEAD, address, and remediate problems before they reach the level of legal action.
An LP gas grill and plastic ductwork from a gas dryer isn't going to end up well. I think we're going to be hearing more from Dad's Place -- as a mass casualty event.
Absolutely
Gotta scroll before posting.
Sure, things SHOULD be dealt with according to state and local regulations ... right up to the point where Christian Privilege comes in to insist on its way or the highway. This is made worse by those officials who SHOULD be responsible for upholding those same rules and regulations, doing their damnedest to wriggle their way around them, because religion. Time and again, we see religion getting unwarranted favoritism, and occasionally we see the untoward consequences of that favoritism.
Yet the essential message has yet to come through ... and it may not until someone gets hurt.
And you'll find absolutely NO disagreement coming from me on your comments!
It's why we had the inspections done, and got our facility brought up to code before we took in people who needed shelter. That's basic human decency -- something which seems to have flown out the window with Trump, MAGA and Christian Nationalism.
It always conveniently becomes "Christian persecution" when they get held up to the same standards as the rest of us by being asked to do things they don't wanna do. Cue the toddler tantrum.
You're one of the good ones, Mr. Carpenter.
I was about to make that very comment.
Thank you for what you do. Screw THEM with a saguaro for what they are doing.
They're acting like privileged, white evangelical Christians who don't have to follow the same laws and same rules which everybody else is expected to abide by.
I'm so completely on board with this, with y'all: I have gotten MORE than tired of privileged, evangelical Christian bullshit.
(Just for the record: I've gotten death threats from evangelical Christians after I've stood up to them and confronted them on their shenanigans. Any more, I just blow it off. The vast majority of them are keyboard warriors, but absolute chickenshit in person.)
You just described all of MAGA.
Thanks for standing up to some of your fellow Christians, I know that's really hard!
I have no doubt of this.
Where I live, plastic ducts can't be used with any dryer, gas or electric.
For good reason! Plastic ducts are a fire just waiting to happen!
Real nice shitstack. You just closed yourself.
I think everyone is missing the point. The pastor just wants to help everyone get to heaven faster and what better way than a building full of accidents waiting to happen.
☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
“That December, an attorney for the group, Ryan Gardner, wrote in the Columbus Dispatch about how city officials “put Ebenezer Scrooge to shame.””
“Indeed, it is unclear if even visits from the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future would cause the city to change course.”
Sorry, but the city isn’t the one being like Scrooge here. The church is choosing not to spend money on safety precautions and what is needed for comfort. Scrooge was disliked because he wouldn’t heat the office, provide days off, allow for Cratchet to attend to his sick child, he saw these things as a waste of money. These are things that make a safe environment, keeping the workers from hypothermia, allowing care to the sick and getting actual rest are all imperative for a life worth living. The city is telling the church that providing a safe environment, proper installation of gas lines, safe bedding with clear access to exits, and a sprinkler system are not asking too much, and the church is choosing not to fund these practical safety measures, a la Scrooge. The city is Marley in this metaphor.
Regarding the sprinklers, the church has had a couple of summers where closing for a few weeks to install the system when it won’t put the folks requiring the shelter into dire weather conditions. This was something that they could have done if they wanted to, but didn’t out of spite it seems.
If the people are coming to the shelter to sleep, then absolutely, whether there are cots and bedding present or not, the shelter is a sleeping area. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to argue otherwise. Where are these judges getting their ideas? That is rhetorical, I know they’re just trying to be Christian nationalists and give right wing churches ridiculous privileges for power reasons.
Let’s remember the folks in the shelter are people, and as such deserve dignity and safety, something this church is ignoring.
With all of the time, energy, and money first liberty spent on this, they could simply have paid for whatever needed to be done, or gotten one pf their rich donors to pay for it. This could have happened sometime ago.
But they chose to pretend religious persecution instead.
This is why I don’t donate to anything affiliated with religion.
City: We want you to help the homeless. We just want to make sure they don't burn to death if there's a fire.
Church: Telling us to follow the rules is persecution cuz you hate Jesus! Besides, if those homeless people burn up in a fire they probably deserved it for being lazy evil sinners for being homeless in the first place.
When they aren't actively abusing people, they make a big show of pretending to care, and any attempt to get them to follow rules that 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘦𝘭𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘧𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘰𝘸 gets them persecution points from the rubes.
And now, thanks to Christian Fucking Privilege, a judge wants to take extra steps to ensure religious toes aren't stepped on. Nevermind that that was already being done, because "If the business chooses not to comply, a fire inspector can and will bar the doors. We chose not to do this, specifically because we did not want to violate the church’s right to religious freedom."
Can we please, please, 𝗽𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘀𝗲 end Christian Fucking Privilege now?
Once again we have a poor innocent Christian being persecuted for his faith by the Godless left. The preacher is, of course, as pure and innocent as a new born babe. Zoning laws are there to protect people and property. Is this the only possible solution this guy could find to address homelessness? Looks to me like he's more interested in playing the victim than solving an actual problem.
The mayor is a republican.
What I’m getting from this and other recent decisions, although I can’t think of one specifically right now, is that our judiciary is enabling religions to do anything they want as long as they claim it is part of their religious beliefs. “Housing homeless is part of my religion so zoning regs don’t apply to me.” How long until “Owning people as property is part of my religion.”
This is the dangerous mindset. "Oh, it's religion and they mean so well. We don't HAVE to observe all those niggling rules and regulations so that they can do some good."
And again, I have to wonder what would have been the reaction to an untoward event.
I'm waiting for the day when sexual abuse becomes a religious freedom. Officially, that is, it's already just about there unofficially. You know, so pastors can 'teach' young people about how to handle marriage and what the expectations will be.
Why yes, I do think that light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train, why do you ask?
Female genital mutilation might be the lead in to that.
OT: Remember this for tomorrow.
https://ibb.co/n8br4hqy
Dammit, I hate shrimp. And I live in NZ.
I don't hate shrimp, but definitely doesn't belong on a taco. 🐮
I don't like shrimp, but I like some shrimp tacos.
*cue Odd Couple theme*
I like full size tacos.
I like extended cab Tacos
https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/toyota/tacoma/2024/oem/2024_toyota_tacoma_extended-cab-pickup_sr_fq_oem_1_1600.jpg
I'm against extended cabs. Takes away cargo space.
Not a fan of Taco Bell, then?
All food is a taco, or variation.
Change my mind.
🥕 Not a taco.
I love shrimp deep, deep fried or boiled.
Just had a roll stuffed with shrimp last Friday.
Ooooh, sthuper-duper! 😝
OT:
https://youtu.be/684ncxqERO4
As if they have consciences.
It's like the guards at the concentration camps who would go home, play with their children, read them bedtime stories, make love to their wives, and then go to work the next day, participating in the holocaust.
And let's not forget that they would complain about the smell from the ovens, making it hard for them to eat their lunches.
Sadly, this is necessary.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/594563577_1426224192209031_4199775302619257190_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=DGAycSeH7s0Q7kNvwGS-OuW&_nc_oc=AdmjDdncYrFKqQHGTODO7sNy96I2lCYEa9b3T_nSzWLzHKeo84IxFQ_awLM43e_dtpA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=a_28LnnnMiP7PMdMOSrGOg&oh=00_AfkmSf7yX9MC1aTZSF9CAMl6pliOld9jjSC0dXkgBhTxcw&oe=693CF46F
For gawd so loved...
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/595039838_1955084572091968_102506528244089858_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296_tt6&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=PERagRx0Ia0Q7kNvwEqWCmh&_nc_oc=AdnGu3VFJiGhEyjJeCf8eNPJJCMOco3X4qiLiAxropIJLaTMjP-lwuocWuWTpm1QqtQ&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=wlWGAKe_haISXS38ogmyiQ&oh=00_AflXw9KoqWzB6HJcP9foASYizqUPmK5ihv_15TWIPxWN8w&oe=693CE0C0
Gandalf?
Gandalf has more compassion, empathy, and human decency than goddybitch! Remember what he told Frodo about how he feels pity for gollum, and that Frodo should not be so eager to kill. Unlike goddybitch who revels in killing and causing pain to humans.
I agree but the image bore a resemblance to Gandalf of the movies.
Now that I look closer it does resemble somewhat Gandalf of the movies, but Gandalf is still morally superior than goddybitch/jeezyboy/flying turd (it the trio of fuckwits actually existed).
OT: NOLA Archdiocese To Pay $230M Abuse Settlement
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/08/catholic-church-new-orleans-settlement-victims-sexual-abuse
About five years ago, there was an explosion in the town over from me that took out an entire building, and damaged more surrounding it. Pretty sure it was a restaurant and was caused by the gas line. This is a business that followed the regulations, but the builders missed a label. Now imagine what could happen with an improperly installed gas line. This isn’t some vague what if when the city decides to enforce the regulations, this is real, the consequences could be devastating. The arcade, with all the homeless people inside could also damage the neighboring shelter and all the people there as well, if something were to happen. The explosion leveled the building, like took it down to rubble in an instant, there’s no firefighting to keep the building up, the debris went blocks damaging other buildings.
It is good that the city is taking this seriously, the church should do the same.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/596391703_1256143796539596_7513739919099206131_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296_tt6&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=qIfWheULFKUQ7kNvwHQF3Qe&_nc_oc=Adl3AF2H_h0rupN97HQUnh90kZTl8i1ti4rqDhA7wTbSTAbqdcrlapIa0ccEoJAYsUo&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=xRSms12NS3qesOs4on-IbQ&oh=00_Afni7uMFBpaHioCrpM-4Emp5JwVA3sFYQ6YnAm_TrsS1ew&oe=693CEB58
I've never had sex with a pan...
I love it when the pan comes together.
I did. Made me wok funny.
I just have to skillet that!
It has a certain sizzle.
It does.
Don’t knock it until you fry it.
But life is what you bake it.
Peter Pansexual?
Let's fucking celebrate 🥳
Since there have been several OTs, I offer one here:
Today is the day back in 1980 that a born-again Christian named Mark David Chapman assassinated John Lennon.
Chapman's next parole hearing will be in February 2027 (his most recent request for parole in September was denied). The now-70 year old Chapman has been denied parole 14 times since 2000. If Yoko has her way, Chapman will never see freedom again.
Let the goddamm fucking lowlife douchebage rot in jail and die there!
Good