If the prison cannot define the safety concerns, then they’re using them as an excuse to exert control over the prisoners. If there hasn’t been other lockdowns for other eclipses in the past, then this is petty bullying because some prisoners are interested in something nice. The safety glasses are made of paper and plastic film, not much chance for them being used as a weapon. They’re already providing the glasses for most everyone there, so the eclipse itself isn’t a safety hazard. The darkness is fleeting, maybe it will last long enough for someone to cause an incident, but it’s unlikely. Besides, that’s what you have guards for, and the prisoners don’t need darkness to get out of line. If you think your guards will be distracted, then you need to evaluate your staff better. Besides, seven inmates are easily managed, even in the dark, without too much strain on staffing.
To me this just seems like the prison is being petty.
"I’ve seen some criticism online that this case ought to be tossed out because we’re talking about criminals,"
I would agree with the critics if they asked for a special permission to see the eclipse outside the prison or if a significant number of prisoners wanted to watch it.
Refusing in this way looks like the staff do it to exercise their power.
Don’t you get it? The only time we care about prisoners is when a trans woman might be locked up in a women’s prison. We freak out over that. But the multitude of violations and degradations we otherwise inflict on a daily basis on prisoners? We don’t care about those. We’re talking about criminals. Who cares?
My dad loves to get out his old fashioned kilt, the kind you have to fold every time, and wear just that around the house. I also have called mom only to have her exclaim “there’s a naked man in my house!” And then hear in the background, “ I’m wearing socks.”
It just doesn't work for me, I was so glad when they stopped being everywhere so I could forget about it. There wasn't anything life changing, right? I'm assuming that the hidden image was in the aesthetic of the time which was... mostly unfortunate in pop culture graphic design and illustration? I'm thinking of Bubble Tape, Do the Dew, and Saved by the Bell as fairly representative? I hated it.
I've read that most teachers of Zen say no because it should come from the you that is not you, not from an outside source. But as I'm not Rōshi, sure why not?
Putting aside the issues of morals and prisons for the moment, it seems to me attempting to browbeat criminals into good behavior is unlikely to work in most cases. From what I understand, most criminals have had hard lives long before they wind up in prison, and most of the time prison makes them worse, not better. Assuming that's correct, then constantly denying them everything that might bring them a little happiness in life is at best pointless, at worst counterproductive.
These prisoners are saying they want to attempt to better themselves, and I don't see where it's costing the taxpayer much to speak of. I'm not seeing a security or safety risk that might be a cause for concern, either; so unless the prison has some other reasonable problem, I don't see a valid reason to deny this request. At this point, I can only presume someone at the prison has decided that they are the king of this particular hill, and is now trying to make the prisoners dance to the tune they're playing.
A prison system interested in reform and rehabilitation should be 𝘨𝘪𝘥𝘥𝘺 over any opportunity to engage inmates with the world around them, especially when the rare opportunity arises to spark an interest in something new, with no connection to the life that led them into prison in the first place. It's an event that lasts a couple of minutes, we've known it was coming for 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴, and the viewing equipment is dirt cheap. It could've been prepared for. Easily. They could have arranged, for example, for prisoners wishing to view the eclipse to be secured to seats in a designated viewing area, if safety was really that much of a concern. Do we not have ample supplies of restraints in our prisons?
But no one at the management level was ever even thinking about something like this, because- as we all know- if an inmate is allowed to spend so much as a few fleeting minutes doing anything but suffering, that means we're being weak on crime and want to destroy America.
“And isn’t rehabilitation what we ultimately want from our prisons?”
Hahahahaha!
As individuals, I’m sure that is the purpose of prisons. Institutionally, prisons are just another tool of control and oppression. And in these modern times (I’m sure throughout history) it is just another way capitalists make money (the privatization of prisons), which is seeming to override even the power and control motivations. There are countries that use prison for rehabilitation and there was some lip service to that end in the USA generations ago. But that was discarded ages ago.
Prisons in the USA are a way to keep slaves, the constitution clearly states that prisoners are allowed to be used as slave labor and the racists through our history have focused criminal prosecution on the black population (and others that are thorns in the sides of those in charge, like Nixon focused on making marijuana illegal to lock up blacks, Hispanics and hippies) so they would have reason to keep them under lock and key. There is a lot to it and I can’t get into all of it here and I’m not a historian or expert on the justice system, but there’s far too much greed and power involved for our prisons to be about rehabilitation.
Well, everyone knows that if a prisoner, who must be atheist because no true Christian could possibly commit a crime worthy of incarceration, gazes upon the eclipse they could open a portal for the woke devil can climb out from his trans-friendly hell and open the borders so that floods of illegal immigrates can come and change our history books so that students will not know that there were white slaves as well, but they will be taught that gender is not real and communism is the best way, and that traditional marriage should be destroyed, just to spread the china-based lie that is climate change.
Jones is not so much. He makes money out of conspiracy theorists, so of course he has to promote conspiracies. He is evil not deluded. (Well – maybe a little deluded.)🤪
I don't think he believed it for a minute. It was just his way of stirring things up and raking in some publicity and therefore cash. He still might be insane though. 😇
I’m betting the prison will use any excuse for a lockdown. OTOH, the religion claim feels kind of bogus too. However they have movie nights in prison so why not let there be an eclipse viewing since only 7 people seem interested.
Honestly, I think the mistake here, above and beyond anything else, is the attempt to call atheism a religion, because it plainly is NOT. Why Zielinski thought that would be useful or might advance his request makes exactly no sense to me. That said, denying inmates the ability to observe the eclipse, purely on the grounds of safety, strikes me as specious at best. If the prison population is seriously violent, it would be one thing (and maybe that is, in fact, the case), but it may be that Zielinski took that into account as well.
Bottom line: I think the idea of EVERYONE being able to see an amazing and maybe once in a lifetime event is justifiable. I also think that using religion as a reason simply doesn't work.
The only reason I can think of for calling atheism a religion would be to highlight the fact that lack of belief is just as protected by the First Amendment's religion clauses as belief.
Even that's a stretch, really. To me, it comes under the "bald-is-a-hair-color" category, but you're right. Lack of belief needs the same level of protection that belief gets. Problem is that the average believer doesn't understand that at all.
He probably (and it would appear correctly) thought that couching atheism in those terms was more likely to be understood by the officials than trying to convince them of the benefits of humanism or whatever. And I can agree that it's not an accurate definition for most practitioners (non-practitioners?) but I can also see why he would feel like it was not exactly a lie so much as a metaphor for people who are all probably Christian.
I think the issue is equal rights. IF and yah, its a big IF. IF the prison allows ANY inmate the ability to observe the eclipse based on religion THEN an theist deserves the same consideration. Religion should NEVER be used as justification for special treatment (yeah, I know.. it ALWAYS DOES..)
And the law already says that the prison MUST make allowances for religious observances.
If nothing else, the prisoners will have (imo. INAL) grounds for a lawsuit if denied.
And as our esteemed author points out, these people are already being 'punished' for their crimes. Denying them something as simple as the ability to observe such a rare event is further punishment that was NOT handed down by the courts.
I'd be more liberal than that. Imagine a jail with 99 Christians and 1 Muslim. You only get one prisoner request to celebrate Ramadan. Since the jail is not allowing any other inmate that privilege, should they allow that one? Answer: "yes, within reasonable accommodation." The answer is not: "no, because nobody else gets it."
I see the main issues here as reasonable accommodation (it seems reasonable: a check for the inmates), and sincere religious request (that seems an awful lot fishier, and probably a check for letting the jail say no).
Like it or not, for US 1A purposes it is lumped in as such, and Zielinksi is doing nothing wrong in demanding a 1A religious right to practice his beliefs. That the SCOTUS 1961 precedent forces atheists into a poor word choice to parse their requests should not be a reason to deny them their rights.
The more substantive question is whether Zielinski actually has an ideology that includes meditating on celestial events, or if he's just making up a bullflop excuse because he wants to watch the eclipse. I'd bet on the latter, frankly.
Fully agree with you that the prison denying prisoners a chance to see it based on "safety" is ALSO making up a bullflop excuse.
I somewhat disagree with your bottom line. It's a prison. They aren't obligated to grant you special access to a loved ones' birthday, or funeral, or to see the crowning of the new King of England, or any other historical or personally important event. Including eclipses. At best, what they are obligated to do is treat you fairly within the law. No 'cruel and unusual' denial of the chance to see it. But changing their regular routine to let you see it? No, they don't have to do that.
Worth remembering that "last eclipse until 2044" is only for the US lower 48. There is something like 13 or more total eclipses visible from somewhere on Earth over the next 20 years. So no prisoner is being denied the only chance of a lifetime. If someone misses this one and *really* wants to see one, there is Spain 2026, Egypt 2027, Australia & New Zealand 2028, and so on, and so on...
Zielinski doesn't have a lifetime sentence; he's in for 14 years. There are in fact 3 separate solar eclipses visible from different parts of Earth in 2038.
Also he previously sued the state for a violation of his constitutional rights when, while on probation, the state told him not to go trick or treating or put candy out for children on Halloween. If that seems an odd restriction for the state to impose, guess what, at the time, he had previously spent time in jail for.
So, really not the best plaintiff on which to hang a 'I have this sincerely held religious belief' case. This is not the first time he has had a sincerely held belief to do something.
Having said that, I will reiterate that I think the jail preventing the prisoners from seeing it 'for safety' is also bullflop. IMO they should provide the same access to the outside as they usually do, and issue proper eyewear to everyone (both those who are able to be outside and those who aren't) as a prudent health-of-our-charges precaution, because we can all reasonably predict that these folks are going to be looking out windows etc.
That kinda happened to me. Menu had one price, was charged another. They said they hadn't updated their menu yet, but since they already charged me, I wasn't going to raise a fuss. Never went back.
That struck a chord with me. We used to have something called the "Ministry of Works" which used to do well – public works. Major roads and so on. And then they got rid of it and decided to use contractors. I remember their first major job which was on a road that I had to use to get to work. Six months after completion it had to be done again because it was crumbling away. So often when I comment on local stories I say "Bring back the M.O.W."
"Gaps?" I'd say it exposes the whole fucking point of the organization's vetting process. The only reason this guy got a ticket to the Funny Farm is because he said the quiet part out loud... and I have a sneaking suspicion that whoever reported him to the 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘦𝘳 authorities caught themselves a sock party for the doing.
The GOP is pushing for redundant military forces, Trump’s Space Force and this ridiculous force, I’m guessing plenty of other republican governors are waiting to see how Florida’s plan goes to institute their own. The National Guard already exists for state emergencies, there’s already local, county and/or state police forces available and trained for state emergencies. This is just a way for the white nationalists to enforce their bigotry on others, not unlike the religious police in Muslim run countries. This should be dissolved and DeSantis tried for crimes against humanity for instituting it.
Space Force is just a waste of resources, NASA and the Air Force already cover anything we need for the solution this is supposed to be. It was just a way for Trump to stroke his ego, put his name on something big. I don’t think it’s for enforcing bigotry.
A Space Force isn't really needed unless there are weapons in space and robots or vessels capable of countering them.
What we need is a dedicated CyberForce. Not the 5.5 military branches each having their own cyber division to protect their assets and the FBI to investigate past attacks. An FBI investigation of 9/11 wasn't particularly helpful to 36000+ people, including survivors with long-term effects.
Hmmm....I thought Space Force was just basically a reallocation of the Air Force resources that were covering space. Because leaders who want to 'leave their mark' but aren't good at substantially improving anything, often reorganize.
Article the fourth... A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
If the prison cannot define the safety concerns, then they’re using them as an excuse to exert control over the prisoners. If there hasn’t been other lockdowns for other eclipses in the past, then this is petty bullying because some prisoners are interested in something nice. The safety glasses are made of paper and plastic film, not much chance for them being used as a weapon. They’re already providing the glasses for most everyone there, so the eclipse itself isn’t a safety hazard. The darkness is fleeting, maybe it will last long enough for someone to cause an incident, but it’s unlikely. Besides, that’s what you have guards for, and the prisoners don’t need darkness to get out of line. If you think your guards will be distracted, then you need to evaluate your staff better. Besides, seven inmates are easily managed, even in the dark, without too much strain on staffing.
To me this just seems like the prison is being petty.
"I’ve seen some criticism online that this case ought to be tossed out because we’re talking about criminals,"
I would agree with the critics if they asked for a special permission to see the eclipse outside the prison or if a significant number of prisoners wanted to watch it.
Refusing in this way looks like the staff do it to exercise their power.
Don’t you get it? The only time we care about prisoners is when a trans woman might be locked up in a women’s prison. We freak out over that. But the multitude of violations and degradations we otherwise inflict on a daily basis on prisoners? We don’t care about those. We’re talking about criminals. Who cares?
And what exactly are they afraid the trans woman is going to do? Rape someone? They show no concern when anyone else does that.
Not sure if it's sarcasm.
Definitely sarcasm
Zut, I wanted to🖕someone today 😁
Just aim it at Republicans. It is always a 140% guarantee that they are doing something to earn that at any time of the day.
Atheism is a religion? Do we get silly hats and dresses?
You have to provide your own.
The rites of passage...
I wear a cap with steampunk goggles. :D
If I got one of those, I'd have to grow my moustache out on the sides more and start using moustache wax to mold it into interesting shapes.
https://www.google.com/imgres?q=moustache%20growing%20competitions&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.boredpanda.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F11%2F2019-national-beard-mustache-championship-9-5dd7b7ec9be56__700.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boredpanda.com%2F2019-national-beard-mustache-championship%2F&docid=RVkDimN9-gvepM&tbnid=mwSg7a7HlbABnM&vet=12ahUKEwiyofSviqmFAxUMklYBHWijC1IQM3oECG0QAA..i&w=700&h=1051&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwiyofSviqmFAxUMklYBHWijC1IQM3oECG0QAA
There you go. Inspiration.
New member of ZZ Top?
Oh come on – ZZ Top was never as well groomed as this.😃
But they were sharp dressed.
Made me think of him.
https://societyofexplorersandadventurers.fandom.com/wiki/Davy_Jones
Dali or Hercules Poirot ?
Dali?
https://thedali.org/
Hello, Dali.
I was thinking more Doctor Robotnik
https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2024%2F02%2Fjim-carrey-sonic-the-hedgehog-3-return-dr-robotnik-news-001.jpg?cbr=1&q=90
Hercule Poirot as portrayed by whom? People disparage Kenneth Branagh's version but he has quite the moustache in those remakes.
David Suchet.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d7deedd89b09ce8d111fb427ab0a06842c8393d48d64ce659d82bb9f40b4817f.png
The more you talk about it, the more I want to see you with it.
And yes, I know you will say no and why.
He didn't say he wears anything else with them. 😲
What, the headgear isn't enough?
My dad loves to get out his old fashioned kilt, the kind you have to fold every time, and wear just that around the house. I also have called mom only to have her exclaim “there’s a naked man in my house!” And then hear in the background, “ I’m wearing socks.”
My parents are weird. And gross.
Where are the socks?
https://i.etsystatic.com/9570296/r/il/e8c770/4008629894/il_570xN.4008629894_ipf4.jpg
It's better with a smith apron.
Sadly, the places I got the hat and goggles both went out of business. They're irreplaceable now. *sigh*
I found a tri-corn hat with a sewn in blue striped bandana. I wear it to the Renaissance Faire.
When I was a kid and "Where the Action Is" was on TV, I sent away for and received a tri-corn hat (the show starred Paul Revere and the Raiders). 😀
I have a hat like that. Got it in Las Vegas.
👍❤️
I found a picture of the official uniform. It's surprisingly affordable!
https://p1.hiclipart.com/preview/140/298/348/a-whole-lotta-nothing-png-clipart.jpg
This one of those Magic Eye posters you have to stare at until you can see the image? :)
I've never been able to see those and I feel left out, are they real? The Magic Eyes stuff, not eclipses.
They're real. I've seen several.
For the best chance of seeing what's 'hidden,' make sure the poster is behind glass and under a spotlight. Then kind of let your eyes relax.
It just doesn't work for me, I was so glad when they stopped being everywhere so I could forget about it. There wasn't anything life changing, right? I'm assuming that the hidden image was in the aesthetic of the time which was... mostly unfortunate in pop culture graphic design and illustration? I'm thinking of Bubble Tape, Do the Dew, and Saved by the Bell as fairly representative? I hated it.
Like nogod said, you have to look without looking. If you've ever studied Zen and kōans, you'll know. If you see the picture then you'll have satori.
Gassho
https://youtu.be/VKMw2it8dQY
Can I find satori via an alternate path? Like Ayahuasca?
I've read that most teachers of Zen say no because it should come from the you that is not you, not from an outside source. But as I'm not Rōshi, sure why not?
𝘞𝘢𝘺-𝘍𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘳, the first of four. I liked the series, but I am not sure I read the last one. Maybe time to reread.
https://tinyurl.com/yc6s6pj2
All hats are silly, the same with neckties.
Something happens to a man when he puts on a tie. It cuts off the flow of oxygen to his brain.
Or not...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175025275414
Okay, bowties can never be cool when that arse Tucker Carlson wears one.
Comrade Carlson hasn't worn a bow tie for 7 years. 😀
That hasn't made it any cooler.🤪
We do not. So we cannot be a religious superstition.
Putting aside the issues of morals and prisons for the moment, it seems to me attempting to browbeat criminals into good behavior is unlikely to work in most cases. From what I understand, most criminals have had hard lives long before they wind up in prison, and most of the time prison makes them worse, not better. Assuming that's correct, then constantly denying them everything that might bring them a little happiness in life is at best pointless, at worst counterproductive.
These prisoners are saying they want to attempt to better themselves, and I don't see where it's costing the taxpayer much to speak of. I'm not seeing a security or safety risk that might be a cause for concern, either; so unless the prison has some other reasonable problem, I don't see a valid reason to deny this request. At this point, I can only presume someone at the prison has decided that they are the king of this particular hill, and is now trying to make the prisoners dance to the tune they're playing.
A prison system interested in reform and rehabilitation should be 𝘨𝘪𝘥𝘥𝘺 over any opportunity to engage inmates with the world around them, especially when the rare opportunity arises to spark an interest in something new, with no connection to the life that led them into prison in the first place. It's an event that lasts a couple of minutes, we've known it was coming for 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴, and the viewing equipment is dirt cheap. It could've been prepared for. Easily. They could have arranged, for example, for prisoners wishing to view the eclipse to be secured to seats in a designated viewing area, if safety was really that much of a concern. Do we not have ample supplies of restraints in our prisons?
But no one at the management level was ever even thinking about something like this, because- as we all know- if an inmate is allowed to spend so much as a few fleeting minutes doing anything but suffering, that means we're being weak on crime and want to destroy America.
god is a viciously sadistic misanthrope.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/434640590_10230935970764596_6569675686343775243_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=iixMyTyfFtYAb6V8qXF&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfCmmkoB7MA8zH0CajvXFMmhL2OCenL39Lcx-G6v6VJuTA&oe=661489C5
“And isn’t rehabilitation what we ultimately want from our prisons?”
Hahahahaha!
As individuals, I’m sure that is the purpose of prisons. Institutionally, prisons are just another tool of control and oppression. And in these modern times (I’m sure throughout history) it is just another way capitalists make money (the privatization of prisons), which is seeming to override even the power and control motivations. There are countries that use prison for rehabilitation and there was some lip service to that end in the USA generations ago. But that was discarded ages ago.
Prisons in the USA are a way to keep slaves, the constitution clearly states that prisoners are allowed to be used as slave labor and the racists through our history have focused criminal prosecution on the black population (and others that are thorns in the sides of those in charge, like Nixon focused on making marijuana illegal to lock up blacks, Hispanics and hippies) so they would have reason to keep them under lock and key. There is a lot to it and I can’t get into all of it here and I’m not a historian or expert on the justice system, but there’s far too much greed and power involved for our prisons to be about rehabilitation.
"the eclipse is a chance to...experience what Jesus saw before getting crucified,"
A solar eclipse...during passover...which always takes place during a full moon?
Ummm ... solar eclipse DURING a full moon? Can you say, "180° out of phase," boys and girls??? 🤦♂️
That's when you have a blood moon.
Which I'm pretty sure would be a LUNAR eclipse ... which I saw, many moons ago.
I thought we've only had the one moon.
That's no moon...
https://youtu.be/50A59qOQ9Zs
Look up during the new moon.
That's what makes it a miracle. /s
Maybe he's planning on shanking someone in the head so they can see their own blood flowing down over their eye?
OT- One Mad Monica has her hackles up again: https://www.wonkette.com/p/one-million-moms-mad-at-ham
...and it just might be her dumbest fake outrage yet. I won't spoil it.
Mad at ham. She's half-baked.
And not even Ken Ham. At least that would be interesting to watch.
Ken Ham actually says "hell".
Well, as a cinephile, I've been mad at hammy performances before.
I think you mean "her dumbest fake outrage 𝓼𝓸 𝓯𝓪𝓻."
What the hill?
#throwback Thursday this is another commercial they objected to. RIP K-Mart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8enIDEKrzA
I'd like to see her object to S-Mart.
The chainsaw's out of gas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5deaXT8DiU
Careful, little kids can click that link.
😁
Well, everyone knows that if a prisoner, who must be atheist because no true Christian could possibly commit a crime worthy of incarceration, gazes upon the eclipse they could open a portal for the woke devil can climb out from his trans-friendly hell and open the borders so that floods of illegal immigrates can come and change our history books so that students will not know that there were white slaves as well, but they will be taught that gender is not real and communism is the best way, and that traditional marriage should be destroyed, just to spread the china-based lie that is climate change.
Bet at least some xtian MAGAts actually believe this.
Some? That is a requirement for membership.
https://www.alternet.org/eclipse-alex-jones/
Jesus H Christ. There seems to be no end to the stupidity that is Alex Jones.
Like Y2K and the Mayan calendar were both supposed to be Doomsday?
Conspiracy fantasists are brains-challenged.
I wonder if there is still dumbday people on Bugarach mountain. The villagers there were not happy with this crowd 🙄
Jones is not so much. He makes money out of conspiracy theorists, so of course he has to promote conspiracies. He is evil not deluded. (Well – maybe a little deluded.)🤪
If he really believes that Sandy Hook was fake, then he's not just deluded and evil, he's insane.
I don't think he believed it for a minute. It was just his way of stirring things up and raking in some publicity and therefore cash. He still might be insane though. 😇
Psychopathy is technically not a mental illness.
Ah ... Didn't know that.
Scientists named our species homo sapiens but they should have named us homo stultus.
I, for one, welcome our new Masonic, Satanic, Esoteric, Gnostic, Brotherhood of the Snake overlords.
I have had it with these motherfucking snake overlords on this motherfucking plane!
I’m betting the prison will use any excuse for a lockdown. OTOH, the religion claim feels kind of bogus too. However they have movie nights in prison so why not let there be an eclipse viewing since only 7 people seem interested.
Honestly, I think the mistake here, above and beyond anything else, is the attempt to call atheism a religion, because it plainly is NOT. Why Zielinski thought that would be useful or might advance his request makes exactly no sense to me. That said, denying inmates the ability to observe the eclipse, purely on the grounds of safety, strikes me as specious at best. If the prison population is seriously violent, it would be one thing (and maybe that is, in fact, the case), but it may be that Zielinski took that into account as well.
Bottom line: I think the idea of EVERYONE being able to see an amazing and maybe once in a lifetime event is justifiable. I also think that using religion as a reason simply doesn't work.
The only reason I can think of for calling atheism a religion would be to highlight the fact that lack of belief is just as protected by the First Amendment's religion clauses as belief.
Even that's a stretch, really. To me, it comes under the "bald-is-a-hair-color" category, but you're right. Lack of belief needs the same level of protection that belief gets. Problem is that the average believer doesn't understand that at all.
He probably (and it would appear correctly) thought that couching atheism in those terms was more likely to be understood by the officials than trying to convince them of the benefits of humanism or whatever. And I can agree that it's not an accurate definition for most practitioners (non-practitioners?) but I can also see why he would feel like it was not exactly a lie so much as a metaphor for people who are all probably Christian.
I think the issue is equal rights. IF and yah, its a big IF. IF the prison allows ANY inmate the ability to observe the eclipse based on religion THEN an theist deserves the same consideration. Religion should NEVER be used as justification for special treatment (yeah, I know.. it ALWAYS DOES..)
And the law already says that the prison MUST make allowances for religious observances.
If nothing else, the prisoners will have (imo. INAL) grounds for a lawsuit if denied.
And as our esteemed author points out, these people are already being 'punished' for their crimes. Denying them something as simple as the ability to observe such a rare event is further punishment that was NOT handed down by the courts.
That's my two cents.
I'd be more liberal than that. Imagine a jail with 99 Christians and 1 Muslim. You only get one prisoner request to celebrate Ramadan. Since the jail is not allowing any other inmate that privilege, should they allow that one? Answer: "yes, within reasonable accommodation." The answer is not: "no, because nobody else gets it."
I see the main issues here as reasonable accommodation (it seems reasonable: a check for the inmates), and sincere religious request (that seems an awful lot fishier, and probably a check for letting the jail say no).
And it's not all the inmates, it's seven. Can the staff really not manage 7 prisoners ?
Like it or not, for US 1A purposes it is lumped in as such, and Zielinksi is doing nothing wrong in demanding a 1A religious right to practice his beliefs. That the SCOTUS 1961 precedent forces atheists into a poor word choice to parse their requests should not be a reason to deny them their rights.
The more substantive question is whether Zielinski actually has an ideology that includes meditating on celestial events, or if he's just making up a bullflop excuse because he wants to watch the eclipse. I'd bet on the latter, frankly.
Fully agree with you that the prison denying prisoners a chance to see it based on "safety" is ALSO making up a bullflop excuse.
I somewhat disagree with your bottom line. It's a prison. They aren't obligated to grant you special access to a loved ones' birthday, or funeral, or to see the crowning of the new King of England, or any other historical or personally important event. Including eclipses. At best, what they are obligated to do is treat you fairly within the law. No 'cruel and unusual' denial of the chance to see it. But changing their regular routine to let you see it? No, they don't have to do that.
Worth remembering that "last eclipse until 2044" is only for the US lower 48. There is something like 13 or more total eclipses visible from somewhere on Earth over the next 20 years. So no prisoner is being denied the only chance of a lifetime. If someone misses this one and *really* wants to see one, there is Spain 2026, Egypt 2027, Australia & New Zealand 2028, and so on, and so on...
For someone with a life sentence without possibility of parole, this "is being denied the only chance of a lifetime."
Zielinski doesn't have a lifetime sentence; he's in for 14 years. There are in fact 3 separate solar eclipses visible from different parts of Earth in 2038.
Also he previously sued the state for a violation of his constitutional rights when, while on probation, the state told him not to go trick or treating or put candy out for children on Halloween. If that seems an odd restriction for the state to impose, guess what, at the time, he had previously spent time in jail for.
So, really not the best plaintiff on which to hang a 'I have this sincerely held religious belief' case. This is not the first time he has had a sincerely held belief to do something.
Having said that, I will reiterate that I think the jail preventing the prisoners from seeing it 'for safety' is also bullflop. IMO they should provide the same access to the outside as they usually do, and issue proper eyewear to everyone (both those who are able to be outside and those who aren't) as a prudent health-of-our-charges precaution, because we can all reasonably predict that these folks are going to be looking out windows etc.
OT
I think I've eaten there
https://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2024/04/04
That kinda happened to me. Menu had one price, was charged another. They said they hadn't updated their menu yet, but since they already charged me, I wasn't going to raise a fuss. Never went back.
That struck a chord with me. We used to have something called the "Ministry of Works" which used to do well – public works. Major roads and so on. And then they got rid of it and decided to use contractors. I remember their first major job which was on a road that I had to use to get to work. Six months after completion it had to be done again because it was crumbling away. So often when I comment on local stories I say "Bring back the M.O.W."
Not as good as breifart's defunct establishment. There, you could win a hospital stay for the same price.
Sam & Ella's restaurant went belly up
Maybe Boebert will reopen it when the Colorado voters fire her.
I think she has tenure.
"And isn’t rehabilitation what we ultimately want from our prisons?"
Unfortunately, I don't think that's what some people want at all. For many, prison is about retribution rather than rehabilitation.
I’m a pagan. Watching the eclipse is a way to celebrate the beauty and power of the universe. I would consider that a spiritual/religious experience.
The authorities in charge of the prison are on a power trip.
OT - Only the best for DeNazi's private army
𝐅𝐥𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐚 𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐝 𝐫𝐞𝐜𝐫𝐮𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐨 ‘𝐛𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐮𝐩’ 𝐦𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐛𝐚𝐬𝐞, 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐧𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐝 𝐜𝐨𝐩𝐬
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/florida-state-guard-recruit-threatened-to-blow-up-military-base-witnesses-told-cops/ar-BB1l24iB
"𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵 — 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘧𝘧’𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘱𝘶𝘵𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘢 𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘳𝘶𝘪𝘵 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘍𝘦𝘣𝘳𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘺 𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘫𝘰𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘚𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘎𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘥— 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘴 𝘨𝘢𝘱𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘰𝘳𝘨𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘻𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯’𝘴 𝘷𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘤𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘢𝘴 𝘋𝘦𝘚𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘭𝘺 𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘸 𝘢 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘤𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘥𝘦𝘱𝘭𝘰𝘺 𝘵𝘰 𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘦𝘴."
"Gaps?" I'd say it exposes the whole fucking point of the organization's vetting process. The only reason this guy got a ticket to the Funny Farm is because he said the quiet part out loud... and I have a sneaking suspicion that whoever reported him to the 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘦𝘳 authorities caught themselves a sock party for the doing.
"...𝘢 𝘤𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘮𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘺 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘤𝘦..."
That. Is. A. Contradiction. In. Terms.
The GOP is pushing for redundant military forces, Trump’s Space Force and this ridiculous force, I’m guessing plenty of other republican governors are waiting to see how Florida’s plan goes to institute their own. The National Guard already exists for state emergencies, there’s already local, county and/or state police forces available and trained for state emergencies. This is just a way for the white nationalists to enforce their bigotry on others, not unlike the religious police in Muslim run countries. This should be dissolved and DeSantis tried for crimes against humanity for instituting it.
Space Force is just a waste of resources, NASA and the Air Force already cover anything we need for the solution this is supposed to be. It was just a way for Trump to stroke his ego, put his name on something big. I don’t think it’s for enforcing bigotry.
I can see a Space Force being a legit branch, if it were well defined and planned out. With Trump, I imagine it is neither of these.
I do have a Space Force pen around somewhere, so there is that...
A Space Force isn't really needed unless there are weapons in space and robots or vessels capable of countering them.
What we need is a dedicated CyberForce. Not the 5.5 military branches each having their own cyber division to protect their assets and the FBI to investigate past attacks. An FBI investigation of 9/11 wasn't particularly helpful to 36000+ people, including survivors with long-term effects.
Totally agree about the Cyber Force. A Space Force could be necessary, but probably not for some time.
I have my Jewish Space Laser at the ready.
Do the whole world a favour, and use it on MTG.
I've got a small fleet
https://youtu.be/sz7JGCj4Q5k
Hmmm....I thought Space Force was just basically a reallocation of the Air Force resources that were covering space. Because leaders who want to 'leave their mark' but aren't good at substantially improving anything, often reorganize.
It probably refers to a well regulated Militia; you know, the reason why USA has more guns than people.
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transcript
Article the fourth... A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Should only mean muzzle-loading muskets
I mean...Florida.
Florida, man.