Churches tend to be businesses, none more so than the LDS church. They value nothing so much as acquiring vast wealth. The Mormon church was founded by a convicted con artist, and the church expects people to accept what he said without questioning any of it. There is no independent corroboration for any of what Joseph Smith dreamed up, and the Mormon church does not begin to stand up against critical historical analysis.
The single biggest problem questioners discover about mormon teachings is that there's ZERO genetic basis for their claim of being descendants of Jews; there's no evidence that Native Americans are of Jewish heritage. The DNA doesn't lie. But Joseph Smith did.
By that standard, the LDS church is a mega-corp. With over $100 billion salted away in tithes and other contributions, they have a nest egg of a size a Roc couldn't handle!
I still remember having a Black Russian in the SLC airport bar, before returning to Cleveland after having solved a problem with a customer there. I'll bet money there are all sorts of secret drinkers among the not-so-faithful!
Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah, Protestants don't recognize the Pope as the head of the chirch, and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.
I visited my relatives in SLC about 50 years ago and I noticed that my older, Mormon relatives in SLC drank and were not secret about it. Many of my younger relatives followed doctrine and went to church twice a week, at least. Looking back, I think my older relatives were 'cultural' Mormons. My great-grandfather was born around the turn of the century so he was not far removed from his hand-cart ancestors. I don't think they really believed a lot of the stuff anymore, they just didn't have other alternatives.
Whatever threatens the revenue will be dealt with immediately. Addressing their ongoing child sexual abuse problem will be pushed to the back burner (in the OFF position).
That last is an issue which could come to the surface in a big way. If it proves out that there has been child abuse in the LDS church, that should rattle a LOT of the rank-and-file Mormons out there.
It has been proven, and they don’t care, they actually believe it is destined to be. The entire religion was populated by raping little girls by the handful, multiple wives is not only acceptable it’s the only way and you only have to wait for her menses to marry her. Mom and dad, well… dad, will pick out the best full grown/elderly man for you as soon as you turn twelve. So, when the religion is based on child sexual predation, there’s not going to be a big hullabaloo about child sexual predation.
It's really baked into their ancestry. The men most successful in the Mormon church were also the ones that produced the most progeny and when the religion was young so were the mothers.
I think they will take steps to address the csa issue: by financial shenanigans designed to minimize the hush money payments. Prevent abuse? They won't do that. Prevent accountability for abuse? That's what they pay their lawyers for.
Mitt Romney supposedly donated his entire inheritance he received from his father to the church. The Romney's are Mormon royalty. I don't know what happened, but I would not be surprised to learn what Romney donated was in a Cayman Island bank account by the end of the day. Romney had business ethics that would embarrass a pimp.
Women's rights. LGBTQ+ rights. Their support of Prop 8 in California. The LDS church, despite its recent concessions, remains an anachronism on the face of 21st century United States. Millennials, Gen Z, and likely Gen Alpha are seeing this, and they want no part of it. I would suspect that there are Boomers and Gen Xers who have finally come to the same conclusion and taken off their magic underwear.
Mormonism is on the down-slide, the same as virtually every other religion in the US. No one should be surprised.
This period of religious psychosis in the US is unbearable especially to younger folks who have no attachment/shared history with these institutions. That’s exciting!
The LDS doing the same things the RCC has been doing for centuries. The question isn't why is Mor(m)on retention so low, but why RCC retention is higher.
Because the RCC has had centuries of head start. Mormonism is a cult. Full stop. They go over the line into cult territory non-stop--in fact, often don't seem to understand where the line even is. The RCC has had many centuries more of experience and knows *exactly* where that line is, so they normally (at least in the last 50-ish years) go *right* up to the line but generally not any further. (Note: Steven Hassan, in his work on cults, the BITE model, lays out this exact comparison in great detail.) The RCC was a whole lot more cult-like when I was a child, pre-Vatican II, than it is now. Just reading about its 19th and 20th century history is instructive in this regard. And, no, RCC retention rate is pretty dismal as well, and has been for some while. Last I checked, about 10% of the US population are, by self report, ex-catholics, 30-ish million. Numbers are worse in Europe.
I grew up in the Catholic Church, and it always presented me with more questions than answers. It doesn't stand up to critical thinking. About the only thing I can say in defense of the church is that the majority of Catholics take their religion with a grain of salt. Catholic true believers, on the other hand, are just as bad as any other flavor of fundamentalism.
Make that "a ton of salt." I grew up in the RCC as well, and the church my family attended was on the--er--conservative end of the spectrum. It was Latin-only til the year before I went away to college, 1969. Funny, that: my mom was a cradle catholic, my dad a convert. By the time my parents died, mom was the only one in the family who believed any more. We all (including dad) ditched the church in our own way, and we all have different ways of describing our non-belief. The youngest, my nieces and nephew, never did believe, so it's irrelevant to them.
The only actual believers that we are related to are on the East Coast and in France, and are Easter-and-Christmas-only elderly ones.
It angers me to see the Catholic Church do the bare minimum virtue signaling of “genocide bad” or “war bad” without having any real skin in the game. It wants to control “morality” for the globe. Too big to fail? 😩
Or maybe "too old to fail"? (I know. That doesn't work.) But maybe that's why they get a pass? Sort of like, "don't rile up grandpa. He gets upset if you remind him it isn't 1920 any more. We're just waiting til he kicks the bucket."
Newer? Less places to hide from their past? Less money/power. It’s wild when I see Catholics and other Christians roll their eyes at Mormons. Make it make sense. Catholics have mastered the long game in deception.
With the advent of the internet, there may not be a church anywhere that has any place to hide. The word gets out, one way or another, and if it can find traction in major news media, the feces may hit the rotating blades with a vengeance!
If any of them have one new idea to put forward, I would be surprised. Mostly, it's been variations on the same old themes that were debunked ages ago.
At some point or other, the RCC will drop below stall speed, and when it does, the crash will be catastrophic.
Right. It’s more like people are falling into old habits (even as ex Catholics) and also desperate to hear anything other than the orange Caligula’s voice.
I was raised Mormon. I was a full time missionary in southern Chile. Married in the temple. While I accepted the teaching with which I was raised that same sex relationships were sinful, I also felt that homosexuals are redeemable, that if they did not act on their impulses they could avoid sin, and as stated in the Articles of Faith, we are responsible only for our own sins. I was in a difficult situation, and the only people willing to help my family was a homosexual couple (not in the church, obviously). In the meantime, the church came out with a declaration that not only those in homosexual relationships but their CHILDREN were cut off from full participation with the church, at least until they were 18 and formally denounced their parents. That same year, when there was a wildfire in southern Idaho, there was a member of our ward that wished the fire would burn the nonmember's homes instead of church member's homes. This started my journey away from the church, but also that of my wife and other family members. I am finding much solace in Buddhist teachings these days.
ANY church that teaches you need to cut off your own children or proposes violence against non-believers isn't a church. It's a cult. I'm glad you and your family escaped.
"The church has become more of an investment company with holdings worth well into the billions, and they’ve committed financial shenanigans to hide their assets."
It's interesting that the same issues that are driving poor retention among most religions, LGBT rights and women's roles in the church, are also driving people away from the MoMos. There's also A LOT more questioning of the church's founding story by people discovering the work of Sandra Tanner and, more recently, the CES Letter published by Jeremy Runnels. Over the years, the church has changed long-standing parts of its initiation ceremonies because people, especially women, found them invasive and degrading. Younger people are turned off by bishops, mostly middle aged men, asking deeply personal questions regarding their sex lives. Let's face it, in any other setting that would be seen as grooming.
The internet has made it impossible for the church to keep eliding its own suspect early history and teachings, which were often blatantly racist and violent. It's also harder for the church to cover up its shady financial dealings and net worth - while still forcing average mormons to shovel out substantial 'tithing' the church hasn't needed in decades.
I hope recovering mormons take the next step and realize the questions and problems they have with the LDS church are the same ones they'll have with all the others. That's the big, freeing step away from the grip of religion, especially high-control religions like the mormons.
And the Lord did say, "Behold! Revenues are down 15% this quarter! But fear not, for Heaven's marketing department hath said that the gays have disposable income. Let it be known that we are okay with the gays so long as they aren't too gay... like butch it up a little... fellas. Maybe a motorcycle... or a black leather jacket... but thou shalt not wear leather pants, for it maketh Elder Johnson feel odd."
I'd love to know just what that "revelation" would be. "Hey, gang, we're a bunch of male-chauvinist pigs who are hanging onto power by our fingernails!"
I am traveling again,, Internet is sketchy, das hisband kept me up last night, but not in a good way. So I am a bit fuzzy .
But these numbers seem as sketchy as the Internet does this morning. 10% margin of error? Sample sizes in the dozens of dozens? Something here makes this seem less certain than certain.
On the One hand, it seems to coincide with what we’re seeing in religion in the west in general. On the other hand,, it certainly satisfies the appetites of people here, myself included. On the other other hand, it all seems sort of sketchy. But then, finding magical golden plates and use something out of Harry Potter to translate them seems sketchiest of sketchy sketchiness.
And since I trust the Mormon church just about as far as I could toss the SLC temple, it makes me wonder whether this study is more of a call to circle the wagons, reassert authority, purify the faith, and prune the vine, and crack down on dissent.
Cynical? Possibly. But I have seen religion in the age of Trump more than willing to whore itself out to every violation of what they claim to be the principal, fornicating with the state for the power and money that goes along with theocracy. This is what I have been writing about over and over again ever since January 6, 2021 and probably before that.
The issue isn’t hypocrisy, which would be refreshingly honest in comparison. The issue is now CORRUPTION, which has inserted it stinky fingers into everything it can possibly touch.. they have become everything that they claim to hate. Everything is opposite land. Every accusation is a confection. Whether it’s falsely. accusing gay people of being corrupters of children while covering up the depredations of God’s priesthood, or collecting billion dollars ehile children starve, or supporting the most immortal person ever to disgrace the office of the president while claiming to believe in the morality of religion….
It doesn’t matter. It’s all the same. It’s corruption— moral, intellectual, spiritual, civic, financial.
Let’s also not forget that the LDS Church is one of the, if not the largest owners of land or property in the USA. Their billions in offshore banks is one thing, but their investments in property actually has a great deal more pull politically. They can wield their property, land, or corporations as weapons so much easier than throwing cash around. It has so much more impact on our daily lives than a Cayman Island account.
The first ex-Mormon person I ever met was in college and she was a burlesque dancer. Super cool person, but with so many issues. My roommate somehow always found these types to date, poor guy 🤣
I am still a Mormon, born and raised in southeastern Idaho (which is, basically, a cultural extension of Utah). Being Mormon and Republican were conditions to which I naturally evolved as I grew into adulthood. But the church is extremely demanding...both in time and resources...and the constant feeling of never doing enough and never being enough exhausted me. I was never a "true believer." It was just cultural (like most Jews). My profession was, to many within the faith, considered to be a "hobby" (I became a lawyer in 1982). The fact that I was the sole support for my family (small, by Mormon standards...only two kids), was considered to be a choice. I have no problem with clubs choosing their rules and mottos and even their values. Accordingly, I have no problem with the Mormon club doing so. However, other than coloring the first 50 years of my life and massive contributions of time and money to the church over my working life, it eventually ceased to be relevant. Completely. I don't miss it. I still respect it as a charitable organization, but it is definitely not a source of comfort, as religions, IMO, should be. I have been able to breathe for the past 20 years.
Churches tend to be businesses, none more so than the LDS church. They value nothing so much as acquiring vast wealth. The Mormon church was founded by a convicted con artist, and the church expects people to accept what he said without questioning any of it. There is no independent corroboration for any of what Joseph Smith dreamed up, and the Mormon church does not begin to stand up against critical historical analysis.
The single biggest problem questioners discover about mormon teachings is that there's ZERO genetic basis for their claim of being descendants of Jews; there's no evidence that Native Americans are of Jewish heritage. The DNA doesn't lie. But Joseph Smith did.
By that standard, the LDS church is a mega-corp. With over $100 billion salted away in tithes and other contributions, they have a nest egg of a size a Roc couldn't handle!
No booze. No caffeine. people are noping out of that shit.
I still remember having a Black Russian in the SLC airport bar, before returning to Cleveland after having solved a problem with a customer there. I'll bet money there are all sorts of secret drinkers among the not-so-faithful!
There are plenty of secret drinkers among the mormons just as there are among the 'alcohol-is-evil' baptists 'round these parts.
Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah, Protestants don't recognize the Pope as the head of the chirch, and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.
You almost owed me a keyboard, Joe!! 😂
I visited my relatives in SLC about 50 years ago and I noticed that my older, Mormon relatives in SLC drank and were not secret about it. Many of my younger relatives followed doctrine and went to church twice a week, at least. Looking back, I think my older relatives were 'cultural' Mormons. My great-grandfather was born around the turn of the century so he was not far removed from his hand-cart ancestors. I don't think they really believed a lot of the stuff anymore, they just didn't have other alternatives.
They violate the “no caffeine” rule whenever they down a Coke or a Pepsi.
The ones I've known abstain from those or get the caffeine-free options.
Shocking that a former sex cult built on patriarchy has a hard time retaining younger women.
Yeah, how did that happen? ;)
The women woke up and smelled the patriarchy ... and the stench was none too sweet! 😝
Whodda thunk it, eh?
Someone should have told them about the Sexual Revolution! 😁
I served during the Sexual Revolution. Was never wounded and never got off a shot. :)
Joe Smith would definitely have been a hippie sex guru.
Complete with harem!
Whatever threatens the revenue will be dealt with immediately. Addressing their ongoing child sexual abuse problem will be pushed to the back burner (in the OFF position).
That last is an issue which could come to the surface in a big way. If it proves out that there has been child abuse in the LDS church, that should rattle a LOT of the rank-and-file Mormons out there.
And it damned well SHOULD.
It has been proven, and they don’t care, they actually believe it is destined to be. The entire religion was populated by raping little girls by the handful, multiple wives is not only acceptable it’s the only way and you only have to wait for her menses to marry her. Mom and dad, well… dad, will pick out the best full grown/elderly man for you as soon as you turn twelve. So, when the religion is based on child sexual predation, there’s not going to be a big hullabaloo about child sexual predation.
It's really baked into their ancestry. The men most successful in the Mormon church were also the ones that produced the most progeny and when the religion was young so were the mothers.
Do a search engine with the words "child sexual abuse in the mormon church." Link after link after link.
I think they will take steps to address the csa issue: by financial shenanigans designed to minimize the hush money payments. Prevent abuse? They won't do that. Prevent accountability for abuse? That's what they pay their lawyers for.
Mitt Romney supposedly donated his entire inheritance he received from his father to the church. The Romney's are Mormon royalty. I don't know what happened, but I would not be surprised to learn what Romney donated was in a Cayman Island bank account by the end of the day. Romney had business ethics that would embarrass a pimp.
Women's rights. LGBTQ+ rights. Their support of Prop 8 in California. The LDS church, despite its recent concessions, remains an anachronism on the face of 21st century United States. Millennials, Gen Z, and likely Gen Alpha are seeing this, and they want no part of it. I would suspect that there are Boomers and Gen Xers who have finally come to the same conclusion and taken off their magic underwear.
Mormonism is on the down-slide, the same as virtually every other religion in the US. No one should be surprised.
This period of religious psychosis in the US is unbearable especially to younger folks who have no attachment/shared history with these institutions. That’s exciting!
The LDS doing the same things the RCC has been doing for centuries. The question isn't why is Mor(m)on retention so low, but why RCC retention is higher.
Because the RCC has had centuries of head start. Mormonism is a cult. Full stop. They go over the line into cult territory non-stop--in fact, often don't seem to understand where the line even is. The RCC has had many centuries more of experience and knows *exactly* where that line is, so they normally (at least in the last 50-ish years) go *right* up to the line but generally not any further. (Note: Steven Hassan, in his work on cults, the BITE model, lays out this exact comparison in great detail.) The RCC was a whole lot more cult-like when I was a child, pre-Vatican II, than it is now. Just reading about its 19th and 20th century history is instructive in this regard. And, no, RCC retention rate is pretty dismal as well, and has been for some while. Last I checked, about 10% of the US population are, by self report, ex-catholics, 30-ish million. Numbers are worse in Europe.
I grew up in the Catholic Church, and it always presented me with more questions than answers. It doesn't stand up to critical thinking. About the only thing I can say in defense of the church is that the majority of Catholics take their religion with a grain of salt. Catholic true believers, on the other hand, are just as bad as any other flavor of fundamentalism.
Make that "a ton of salt." I grew up in the RCC as well, and the church my family attended was on the--er--conservative end of the spectrum. It was Latin-only til the year before I went away to college, 1969. Funny, that: my mom was a cradle catholic, my dad a convert. By the time my parents died, mom was the only one in the family who believed any more. We all (including dad) ditched the church in our own way, and we all have different ways of describing our non-belief. The youngest, my nieces and nephew, never did believe, so it's irrelevant to them.
The only actual believers that we are related to are on the East Coast and in France, and are Easter-and-Christmas-only elderly ones.
It angers me to see the Catholic Church do the bare minimum virtue signaling of “genocide bad” or “war bad” without having any real skin in the game. It wants to control “morality” for the globe. Too big to fail? 😩
Or maybe "too old to fail"? (I know. That doesn't work.) But maybe that's why they get a pass? Sort of like, "don't rile up grandpa. He gets upset if you remind him it isn't 1920 any more. We're just waiting til he kicks the bucket."
Right. It’s like Mitch McConnell throwing up E.T phone home hand signs to the press.
Newer? Less places to hide from their past? Less money/power. It’s wild when I see Catholics and other Christians roll their eyes at Mormons. Make it make sense. Catholics have mastered the long game in deception.
Yup. All this.
With the advent of the internet, there may not be a church anywhere that has any place to hide. The word gets out, one way or another, and if it can find traction in major news media, the feces may hit the rotating blades with a vengeance!
The surge of recent every day Catholic apologists on the internet are worrisome, but I hope is short lived.
If any of them have one new idea to put forward, I would be surprised. Mostly, it's been variations on the same old themes that were debunked ages ago.
At some point or other, the RCC will drop below stall speed, and when it does, the crash will be catastrophic.
Right. It’s more like people are falling into old habits (even as ex Catholics) and also desperate to hear anything other than the orange Caligula’s voice.
I was raised Mormon. I was a full time missionary in southern Chile. Married in the temple. While I accepted the teaching with which I was raised that same sex relationships were sinful, I also felt that homosexuals are redeemable, that if they did not act on their impulses they could avoid sin, and as stated in the Articles of Faith, we are responsible only for our own sins. I was in a difficult situation, and the only people willing to help my family was a homosexual couple (not in the church, obviously). In the meantime, the church came out with a declaration that not only those in homosexual relationships but their CHILDREN were cut off from full participation with the church, at least until they were 18 and formally denounced their parents. That same year, when there was a wildfire in southern Idaho, there was a member of our ward that wished the fire would burn the nonmember's homes instead of church member's homes. This started my journey away from the church, but also that of my wife and other family members. I am finding much solace in Buddhist teachings these days.
ANY church that teaches you need to cut off your own children or proposes violence against non-believers isn't a church. It's a cult. I'm glad you and your family escaped.
There is no hate like Christian love.
"The church has become more of an investment company with holdings worth well into the billions, and they’ve committed financial shenanigans to hide their assets."
This is why religion exists: money and power.
It's interesting that the same issues that are driving poor retention among most religions, LGBT rights and women's roles in the church, are also driving people away from the MoMos. There's also A LOT more questioning of the church's founding story by people discovering the work of Sandra Tanner and, more recently, the CES Letter published by Jeremy Runnels. Over the years, the church has changed long-standing parts of its initiation ceremonies because people, especially women, found them invasive and degrading. Younger people are turned off by bishops, mostly middle aged men, asking deeply personal questions regarding their sex lives. Let's face it, in any other setting that would be seen as grooming.
The internet has made it impossible for the church to keep eliding its own suspect early history and teachings, which were often blatantly racist and violent. It's also harder for the church to cover up its shady financial dealings and net worth - while still forcing average mormons to shovel out substantial 'tithing' the church hasn't needed in decades.
I hope recovering mormons take the next step and realize the questions and problems they have with the LDS church are the same ones they'll have with all the others. That's the big, freeing step away from the grip of religion, especially high-control religions like the mormons.
I sense another convenient "revelation" in the offing.
And the Lord did say, "Behold! Revenues are down 15% this quarter! But fear not, for Heaven's marketing department hath said that the gays have disposable income. Let it be known that we are okay with the gays so long as they aren't too gay... like butch it up a little... fellas. Maybe a motorcycle... or a black leather jacket... but thou shalt not wear leather pants, for it maketh Elder Johnson feel odd."
Make sure you begin with "And it came to pass..." A Mormon standard. :D
It came to pass / That the LDS ran outta gas! 🤪
🤣🤣🤣 Stop it, STOP IT! Yer killin' me here! 🤣🤣🤣
The last one was in 1978 when it was revealed to them that black people are, in fact, people.
I'd love to know just what that "revelation" would be. "Hey, gang, we're a bunch of male-chauvinist pigs who are hanging onto power by our fingernails!"
Oh, yeah, that'll do it! 🤪
"We will let gay men have a very limited role as long as they promise to never do gay stuff. After all, they are men."
Ooooo, that one could be loaded. Question: How many Mormon males are seeing other men on the down-low? I'll bet it's more than a few!
How many Mormon men went to Dallas for the NSGOP Trump worshipping festival where Grindr crashed? That might give us a start point to estimate...
I would guess a cause is the rise of the Internet is exposing more and more folks to other perspectives and facts and such.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑒𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑔𝑜 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑖𝑒.
-- Thunderf00t
I am traveling again,, Internet is sketchy, das hisband kept me up last night, but not in a good way. So I am a bit fuzzy .
But these numbers seem as sketchy as the Internet does this morning. 10% margin of error? Sample sizes in the dozens of dozens? Something here makes this seem less certain than certain.
On the One hand, it seems to coincide with what we’re seeing in religion in the west in general. On the other hand,, it certainly satisfies the appetites of people here, myself included. On the other other hand, it all seems sort of sketchy. But then, finding magical golden plates and use something out of Harry Potter to translate them seems sketchiest of sketchy sketchiness.
And since I trust the Mormon church just about as far as I could toss the SLC temple, it makes me wonder whether this study is more of a call to circle the wagons, reassert authority, purify the faith, and prune the vine, and crack down on dissent.
Cynical? Possibly. But I have seen religion in the age of Trump more than willing to whore itself out to every violation of what they claim to be the principal, fornicating with the state for the power and money that goes along with theocracy. This is what I have been writing about over and over again ever since January 6, 2021 and probably before that.
The issue isn’t hypocrisy, which would be refreshingly honest in comparison. The issue is now CORRUPTION, which has inserted it stinky fingers into everything it can possibly touch.. they have become everything that they claim to hate. Everything is opposite land. Every accusation is a confection. Whether it’s falsely. accusing gay people of being corrupters of children while covering up the depredations of God’s priesthood, or collecting billion dollars ehile children starve, or supporting the most immortal person ever to disgrace the office of the president while claiming to believe in the morality of religion….
It doesn’t matter. It’s all the same. It’s corruption— moral, intellectual, spiritual, civic, financial.
Let’s also not forget that the LDS Church is one of the, if not the largest owners of land or property in the USA. Their billions in offshore banks is one thing, but their investments in property actually has a great deal more pull politically. They can wield their property, land, or corporations as weapons so much easier than throwing cash around. It has so much more impact on our daily lives than a Cayman Island account.
The first ex-Mormon person I ever met was in college and she was a burlesque dancer. Super cool person, but with so many issues. My roommate somehow always found these types to date, poor guy 🤣
He was from Minnesota (Minnesota nice) 😊
Oh yah, you betcha. :)
I am still a Mormon, born and raised in southeastern Idaho (which is, basically, a cultural extension of Utah). Being Mormon and Republican were conditions to which I naturally evolved as I grew into adulthood. But the church is extremely demanding...both in time and resources...and the constant feeling of never doing enough and never being enough exhausted me. I was never a "true believer." It was just cultural (like most Jews). My profession was, to many within the faith, considered to be a "hobby" (I became a lawyer in 1982). The fact that I was the sole support for my family (small, by Mormon standards...only two kids), was considered to be a choice. I have no problem with clubs choosing their rules and mottos and even their values. Accordingly, I have no problem with the Mormon club doing so. However, other than coloring the first 50 years of my life and massive contributions of time and money to the church over my working life, it eventually ceased to be relevant. Completely. I don't miss it. I still respect it as a charitable organization, but it is definitely not a source of comfort, as religions, IMO, should be. I have been able to breathe for the past 20 years.
Oh...and I'm still a Republican--in name only. I haven't voted for a Republican since 2012. The Republican Party is a cult.
Now bow down and pray to your true Lord and master, Donald Trump.
A cult built on sexual control and abuse. I'm shocked.
https://i.redd.it/ld8tzq9gnjf81.jpg
Joey had no use for older women, it seems.