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Troublesh00ter's avatar

All I got to say about this is:

How many pastors want to see multiple deaths of their congregants 𝗔𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗜𝗥 𝗢𝗪𝗡 𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗗𝗦?!? Because without training, both individual and group, that is EXACTLY what is very likely to happen in the event of a shooter coming into such a church.

Can you say, "Friendly Fire," boys and girls?

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cdbunch's avatar

It won't be their fault. God's will. The "good guy"'s fault. Anyone but the pastor. They don't take responsibility for the harm their words cause, why would they take responsibility for this.

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Joe King's avatar

They really haven't thought it through. They just know "good guy with gun stops bad guy with gun". Nevermind that the bad guy with the gun doesn't care who dies and the good guy with the gun has to fire into the crowd where the bad guy is, while scared shitless.

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cdbunch's avatar

Actually, I *hope* he's scared. He might be careful what he aims at then.

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Joe King's avatar

He needs to be scared enough to be careful what he's shooting at, and not so scared that he empties the magazine in the general direction of the loud bang.

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XJC's avatar

"Guns don't kill people." Christian People kill people.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Does churches charges for funerals in your country and how much ?

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cdbunch's avatar

Who can tell. The funeral home handles all that and charges about $10k unless you want to bury a *really* fancy box, then it's more.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

My ideal funeral : donate my body,. I prefer my family get my money instead of having it wasted.

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cdbunch's avatar

I'm torn between that (they cremate when they're done) and a green burial. No embalming, biodegradable box and a nice tree or rose bush planted over me.

Edit: I want the memorial dinner and stone, so my family isn't going to get all the money.

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larry parker's avatar

My name is already on a tombstone. The plan is for cremation and the ashes buried in a family plot. I don't care if the plan is followed or not.

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cdbunch's avatar

I've found out cremation isn't particularly environmentally friendly, which is why I want the green burial.

I won't care when the time comes, most likely, but I also am repulsed by the idea of some preacher who never knew me trying to make some ChatGPT eulogy and then preaching about Jesus.

I want to show people that there are other options to honor the dead and heal from the loss.

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Len Koz's avatar

Why would you? You'll be dead and won't know what is done with you.

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RegularJoe's avatar

Even with significant training and frequent practice it's still a rather risky proposition.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Then there is this: 𝐂𝐚𝐫𝐫𝐲𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚 𝐁𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐚 𝐠𝐮𝐧, 𝐚 𝐩𝐚𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐧 𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐥𝐞𝐝 𝐍𝐞𝐰 𝐎𝐫𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐧𝐬

Lord willing, the words would come. Stewart would bring his weathered Bible. But underneath his pastoral robe, he would wear his bulletproof vest and a utility belt that holds his 9mm pistol — a form of protection in a city where even funerals have been disrupted by gunfire.

<snip>

Over time, Stewart became a licensed firearms instructor, and when demand for guns skyrocketed during the pandemic in response to surging violent crime, he began to see teaching people about guns as part of his calling as a pastor.

<snip>

Now, at least one Saturday a month inside the small chapel here, Stewart presides over a separate ministry that increasingly takes up more of his time. He teaches beleaguered New Orleans residents how to obtain a concealed-weapons permit and use a gun.

https://www.phillytrib.com/religion/carrying-a-bible-and-a-gun-a-pastor-tends-to-an-unsettled-new-orleans/article_015e1d05-2cdb-59f7-9eb0-f27dc4c67f4f.html

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NOGODZ20's avatar

To P-ass-tor Stewart...

What did your Jesus say after Peter cut off the ear of a Roman soldier who'd come to arrest his messiah? That's right. He admonished Peter and told him to put the sword away because those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

The type of armament doesn't matter. Lead a life of violence and that violence will eventually round back on you.

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Ben J's avatar

At this point, I'm past caring, except about the kids. They want violence, death, and destruction, all the while pretending that their God cares anymore about it than they do.

The very fact that they are contemplating armed guards to prevent the carnage is a good indication that they get a little orgasms at the thought. Who am I to deny anyone their Sexual pleasure?

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Let’s not forget that Daniel Defense also designed an AR-15 that is smaller and lighter weight for children, young children. Train up a child to use guns to solve problems? Sounds like that is the problem from the start, rather than a solution.

Guns are the Number 1 killer of children in the USA. Good guys with guns statistically tend to be victims of accidental discharges, and not the heroes they’re claimed to be. Then, pretty much every single mass shooter ever has seen himself (okay, a few herselves are in there, but their inclusion is statistically insignificant) as the good guy with the gun. Even when they’re walking into the targeted area, they see themselves as the main character wronged by some thing or other and justified in their actions. They are the good guys with guns while they’re amassing their arsenals, they’re the good guys with guns until they’re not.

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cdbunch's avatar

OT: I wonder if the Daniel is a reference to the Lion's Den story or just the guy's name.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Probably both.

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Donrox's avatar

Founded by Marty Daniel in Savannah, GA

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Whitney's avatar

I have to admit my eyebrows made a wild break for my hairline when I read the headline of the article.

Reading this, I honestly wonder what in the world they're thinking. What happens when some kid or prankster brings a bunch of firecrackers to church with them? Or a car with a serious problem backfires on the road running near the church during a Sunday service? Or who knows what else that might sound like gunfire to some less than observant member of the congregation? There are so many ways for this to end in severe tragedy it's hard to even know where to start, and once that starts happening it's probably going to be hard to stop.

Just remember, in real life when people wind up dead, there is no reset button.

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cdbunch's avatar

It's not like it would be the first time a kid with a toy was shot by "good guy" with a gun. Of course he was one of them there scary blacks, so of course, they thought it was a real gun.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

This is all their own doing, when you get right down to it- the very people who most loudly proclaim that we need more weapons to defend ourselves with. They're the ones who created the need for 'em in the first place. Spend a few decades (centuries, for some churches) whipping up the masses to hate and fear everything and everyone not like them, and this is what you get. A culture of hate and fear, where you have to have a plan to kill everyone you meet before they kill you. For what? You had the wrong skin tone. You loved the wrong person. You were wearing the wrong color shirt. Your hair was parted funny. 𝘋𝘰𝘦𝘴𝘯'𝘵 𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳. Be ready to be murdered any time, anywhere, for any reason. Get 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 before they get 𝘺𝘰𝘶!

Big shocker that all the hate and fear follows them back home. It sits in the pews right next to them. It lives under their own roof. They eat, drink, and breathe it. That readiness to do great violence at the drop of a hat- that's the real problem. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 our national disease.

Yes, we have a major gun problem in this country. Other countries handle access to lethal weaponry with a greater degree of maturity and common sense... but even if we had the same laws as they do, I suspect, we'd be having the same problems, because we didn't 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 make lethal weapons ubiquitous. That wasn't 𝘯𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘭𝘺 far enough. No, that's not how we do things in these here parts... we went and built a fucking 𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦 around them. Fetishized them. Made them part of our national 𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘵𝘺. And what can you do, when you have a culture built around the tools of violence, except find excuses to use them at every conceivable opportunity?

We've justified killing over the most idiotically trivial shit, like shoplifting and simple trespass, to the point where many states enshrine the right to kill another person for standing on your lawn in law. Hell, Texas even lets you keep shooting 'em in the back as they run away! We've allowed our police forces to effectively become an occupying army, and then lionized them for their brutality, so that even a routine call to ask the neighbor to turn their music down can turn into a bloodbath. We've made our whole damn country into a war zone from sea to shining sea. There is no stone from Maine to Florida nor from Virginia to California that you can't get shot for turning over.

De-escalation is not the American way- the American Way (tm) is to keep going bigger, louder, meaner, and deadlier until the other guy gives in or lies dead at your feet.

Yay, us.

Envy of the fuckin' world.

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Bill Wilson's avatar

Choir lofts can be repurposed into a sniper perch and also accommodate the ritual positions - kneel or stand. Also prone for the Pentecostal sniper.

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Dave Ingrey's avatar

careful, someone may be taking notes for suggestions

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Dave Ingrey's avatar

Prayer was 100% the plan for many churches to combat Covid-19. "God will protect us!" It's hard to be wrong on both issues, but somehow we manage it. I am grateful that my church went virtual to start, and on reopening, wore masks and emphasized social distancing, using the slogan, "This is how we love one another." Far too many churches went the other way.

If gun violence against churches is on the rise, it may be good for churches to ask why people are reacting to their message with violence. And has Hemant points out, the larger issue of "God and guns" has helped create this mess we are in as a nation. Whatever the issue is, clearly, "more guns" is the answer, right?

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

MOST violence is against minority churches. Jewish temples and synagogues (there is a difference) along with Black churches have borne the brunt of this hatred. The kkkatlik church started this with hatred of Jews as "kkkrist killers" along with "blood libel" and "host nailing" charges against Jews. David I Kertzer's excellent "The Popes Against the Jews" is a blood curdling history of this persecution and murder of Jews by the kkkatlik church.

"The Pope and Mussolini is the story of how Musolini bought and controlled Pius XI. "The Pope at War" is the history of Pius XII kowtowing to Hitler and Mussolini. All 3 make an excellent trilogy of how the kkkatlik cabal caused the deaths of millions upon millions of innocent people.

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Boreal's avatar

Nothing shows your trust in gawd and prayer like needing a gun to be safe. Remember when all the anti vax loons said they have jeezus so didn't need vaccination? Funny how their trust in their imaginary friend doesn't extend to guns.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

One you can put a hand on to feel comfortable and safe. The other requires you to trust that it's working even though you can't see or feel it, and to the superstitious that's not any different than faith in prayer. A virus is invisible to the naked eye, so it's easier to convince the gullible that an invisible deity can protect them from it. If they never catch the bug then, hey, the prayers must've worked! If they do get it, then clearly they weren't Jesusing hard enough- but the illusion of divine intervention is maintained either way.

Bad guys and bullets, on the other hand, are 𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 more tangible and immediate as far as lethal threats go. It's a 𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘵𝘭𝘦 bit harder to convince folks that a few magic words to sky-daddy are gonna stop 55 grains of supersonic lead from turning their brains into chunky salsa.

The irony, of course, is that a vaccine is far more effective protection against the virus than a concealed weapon tucked away in a holster is against a murderer who came through the door already firing. But hey, when did facts and logic ever matter in a house of worship?

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

I remember the news clip of a woman saying that she doesn't need the vaccine because she is bathed in the blood of jebus.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Wonder if she can't say anything now because she's hooked up to a ventilator with no Jesus to come visit her.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

"The Second Amendment revisionists". There, corrected.

"Don't love, make war" seems to be the new American unofficial motto.

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cdbunch's avatar

"Make love, not war" was the motto of a rather small portion of the population, AIUI. The interesting thing is, what you posted seems to be the motto of a subset of the same generation.

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oraxx's avatar

God forbid they use any of their influence over politicians to get guns out of the hands of those who should not own them.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

But not the blacks.

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cdbunch's avatar

Oh, they can have them, but they're gonna be shot dead if they actually take them out of the case.

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jomicur's avatar

Or if they take out a licorice stick that some goon of a cop can claim he thought was a gun.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Would be truly ironic if a mentally disturbed person were to go into NRA HQ and start blasting.

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XJC's avatar

Does Christian count as mentally disturbed?

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

NRA bannedx guns at convention in 2022. They even banned guns in hotel rooms. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nra-convention-cant-bring-your-gun_n_628fd9b7e4b0cda85dbc043f

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I expected to find that their headquarters were gun-free. Turns out that people CAN carry guns there, whether concealed or "open-carry."

Just waiting for a gun-fueled catastrophe to happen there. Bet they'd change their policy in a hurry.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

I thought the only place you were allowed to carry was the range?

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Joe King's avatar

I believe that's called "be careful what you wish for."

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cdbunch's avatar

I'm surprised they don't claim we're entitled to our own nuclear arsenal. Of course, most mentally ill people are much more likely to kill themselves with a gun rather than anybody else.

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RegularJoe's avatar

Depends on the specific illness, the degree, etc.

If we're talking homophobia/transphobia/xenophobia/etc, I'm good with significant restrictions and qualifications. 😉

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Because that would be them.

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Boreal's avatar

OT: Haters in meltdown mode over Biden having a Pride Celebration at the WH.

https://www.joemygod.com/2023/06/haters-melt-down-over-white-house-pride-celebration/

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cdbunch's avatar

Water is wet, sky is blue, haters got to hate, just because you're you.

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Boreal's avatar

Every anti-gay argument I've ever heard is religiously based. They have nothing else.

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NoOne of Consequence's avatar

Well, the bullshit "it's not natural!" could be argued from a secular angle. You'd have to ignore tons of evidence to the contrary and while that is a Christian sacrament you can do it in a non-religious way. ;)

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Joe King's avatar

"It’s not natural" is a pathetically weak argument when homosexual behavior has been documented in at least 1500 species.

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NoOne of Consequence's avatar

Absolutely, but when has scientific evidence to the contrary mattered to people of faith? Many of them also believe Noahs Flood was a real thing. insert shrug emoji here. ;)

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jomicur's avatar

"Science is just somebody's opinion."

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

Homophobia is found in only one species. Now, which is more natural?

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jomicur's avatar

They melt down over everything that isn't a LOUD endorsement of their gutter religion and politics. I'll say it still again: If they couldn't find things to be outraged about they wouldn't have any emotional lives at all.

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NoOne of Consequence's avatar

Good. "Those who are easily offended..." and all that.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

It's only a matter of time before a car on the street in front of a church backfires and triggers Armageddon inside the walls of that church.

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larry parker's avatar

Only if they are playing "Freebird" in the church.

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Len Koz's avatar

From your lips...

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xenubarb's avatar

Just wait until there's an "incident" leading to parishioners being killed by trigger-happy, untrained fellow parishioners.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Arming church members to thwart potential mass shootings bespeaks of a distinct lack of trust in their god to protect them.

I thought their "all-powerful" god was an awesome god. What does it say when a deity fails to protect its own followers within the walls of its houses of worship.

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cdbunch's avatar

Not kissing his butthole correctly?

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cdbunch's avatar

When was the hypothesis that Luna came from Earth discarded?

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Joe King's avatar

Um, mysterious ways?

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XJC's avatar

Do unto others as...?

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Gawd is punishing them for not jesusing hard enough.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

YHVH always punishes those he loves. Sick bastard.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

HEY! No kink shaming! Doms ♥️ their subs.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

The biblical deity doesn't use safe words. :)

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CozmoTheMagician's avatar

WWJP the new xtian motto

"What Would Jesus Pack"

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NoOne of Consequence's avatar

Who Would Jesus Pwn? 😏

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Joan the Dork's avatar

OT- I don't know if these kids have a chance of winning... but they sure as shit 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘦 to: https://apnews.com/article/youth-climate-trial-montana-e0f7ad22e61511ce72bc3ff83e7cd09b

A group of young activists in Montana are suing the state for failing to take action on climate change (or, rather, for making it worse by jumping in bed with fossil fuel companies). Apparently, Montana's state constitution requires it to "𝘮𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦 𝘢 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘵𝘩𝘧𝘶𝘭 𝘦𝘯𝘷𝘪𝘳𝘰𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵." A bunch of similar cases have been filed in the past, but this is the first one to actually go to trial.

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NoOne of Consequence's avatar

It’s not like SBC churches are anything like common targets, iirc. This seems like more “oh we’re so victimized!” from a place of complete safety. Also was prayer even an option or did Lifeway just assume churches had some kind of security? I’ve been in a few churches in my life, never saw security in any of them. Possible I just didn’t notice, of course, but I’d bet money Mormons don’t have armed guards.

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

A friend went to a first baptist wedding in the early 1970s. He said he was surprised when one of the ushers moved and he caught sight of a handgun in a shoulder holster.

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Maltnothops's avatar

It may have been to keep the groom from making a break for it — especially if the bride was with child.

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ericc's avatar

At this point, they may pack heat as a point of pride or political tribalism. But you're right. Historically, the churches that have actually been violently attacked are not SBC ones, they are traditionally black southern protestant churches and synagogues (I know, but same idea). In other words, worship communities that need protection *from* southern white conservative baptists.

So this may be another example of grade-A projection. We evangelicals need guns in case the Others decide to do unto us as we do unto them.

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