Further, I want you to show precisely HOW this deity of yours is directly responsible for the creation of bacteria and viruses which are the demonstrable origin of many of the sicknesses and diseases and subsequent pain, suffering, and sometimes death that living beings, both human and others, are subjected to. You seem to have lost sight of the fact that science deals with demonstrable phenomena, which it studies, experiments on, analyzes, and hypothesizes explanations to further advance our understanding of this reality.
Your god is NOT demonstrable, not in any real, objective sense, and until it is, I see no reason to attempt to incorporate your pet deity in any serious discussion regarding science, research, or any investigation into the physical laws which give no sign of having any relation to any form of god.
๐๐จ๐ง๐ฎ๐ฌ ๐ซ๐จ๐ฎ๐ง๐: argue, ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ท๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ฏ๐จ๐ญ๐บ, that your deity actually deserves to be worshiped after having deliberately inflicted all of that horror on its creations.
Opium and purpose-made substitutes like Heroin give people comfort, but even the soft Christians will sputter and deny those any sacred status.
The study of Theodicy is unfortunately (and amazingly) still A Thing, regardless of the fact you can get rid of the God-i-ness involved and nothing else in Reality changes. Well, nothing changes except the absence of all the whining from people who need Invisible Sky Daddies to keep them from wetting their pants while also furnishing their lives with off-the-shelf, "Accept No Substitutes" "Terms & Conditions Apply", Capital-M, Meaning.
Nah. Sounds like mere constituent fodder/optics to me. A Republican legislatie priority would be treated a lot differently by the rest of the Republicans in the State Senate.
Off-topic but related, that Montana "teach science facts not theories" bill died in committee, with the vote being 11-0 to table it. Though the sponsor whined about it, so he was probably sincere.
Wonder if the Small Government, Money Grubbing GOP has ever thought of requiring a DEPOSIT on every bill submitted to the legislative process, and which gets confiscated if bill doesn't get sent on to the body for a vote by at least a party-line margin?
You know, a deposit that cannot be claimed on expenses and comes directly out of the pay of the legislators, themselves, or any benefits of their constituents, like money for a new futball field or 10 Commandments Statue?
You know a deposit large enough to cover the Overhead in the process, outside the in-duh-vidual legislator's office of patronage appointees?
That would just be used for more bigotry. "Gee Montana school board, I really would like to honor your African American Teacher of the Year, but I just don't have the funds for it right now. Staffer, see these good constituents out, and get me that Bible Appreciation Day bill for review while you're at it."
Get another, less-grandstanding person to offer the bill.
After all, inspiring bills EVERYONE can consider seriously is the WHOLE POINT, so someone else, even from across the aisle, is gonna be able to offer it up?
Well that bill is certainly contradictory, you canโt have scientific facts confirming Godโs wrath on individuals. Thereโs no scientific anything that comes close to living up to the very idea of scientific fact of disease being a consequence imposed by god or creator.
Disease is a consequence of simply living on earth with the variety of life that resides on it, people, viruses, germs, plants, animals and so forth. If all disease was caused by being punished for sinning, why did Mother Theresa (the ghoul) get ill despite being a saint? Why would a newborn baby deserve whooping cough? My cat be punished with a sinus infection? It doesnโt even make sense within the claim.
I wish people would just once look beyond the R at the end of a politicianโs name and see them for the fucking corrupt morons they are.
I think millions do. They *like* that they're fucking corrupt morons. 75 million voted for the Orange Liar. The stupidity is almost as much the point as the cruelty.
"...exploring the contrast between the scientific facts on how...
...lightning is caused by strong electric charges moving between clouds and the ground, and how lightning bolts are spears thrown by God."
...the sun and stars are large spheroids of hydrogen and helium creating heat and radiation through nuclear fusion in their cores, and how they are lanterns hung by God on crystal spheres surrounding the Earth."
...nature is governed by observable and testable laws of physics, and how everything is done by God's magic."
__________
The Constitution is the only thing protecting us from living in a nightmare theocratic lunatic asylum.
They treat the Constitution like the bible. Cherry-pick and tie themselves in knots that it doesn't mean what it says.
Not to mention a couple of more red states and they'll rewrite it anyway. Article 6 is gone, the First Amendment will be unrecognizable and the minimum voting age will be at least 50.
Creator? I have TWO creators. I called them mom and dad.
Creator, Googy? You do know that there is more than just your own creation myth, right? No? Let me enlighten you on just how many different creation myths there are:
All are no more or less valid then your own. What's that, you say? Yours is the only correct one? Sorry, that's "special pleading," a logical fallacy. Fail.
" โฆ and how sickness, disease, pain, suffering, and death are a consequence imposed by the Creator of complex living organisms."
If that is a scientific fact, then it follows that it must also be a demonstrable fact that "the Creator" is a willful, arbitrary, vicious monster, nothing like the "loving God" the christers promote. I can't honestly say I regard it as a scientific fact that "God" is vicious; that would be skipping several crucial steps (i.e. the scientific and factual bits). But it is certainly a fact that the god portrayed in the bible is a capricious fiend.
"Importance of Morality and Religion in Government."
Ummmm, no. The founders made it very clear that our secular government was to remain strictly neutral on the matter of religion. And as far as morality goes? We've seen just how very amoral religion is, time and time and time again.
Keep your religion confined to the walls of your homes and places of worship.
Unfortunately, there will always be people who prey on teenagers. And they will always seek positions of authority to facilitate their hunt. I don't know if they just get off on the power or are too feckless to handle relationships with peers, but I fear they will always be with us.
Weeellll, I could have a FIELD DAY on that course description, and I don't think he'd like it.
"Plagues and Peoples" as a timeline, along with some desultory "Religion for Idiots" texts, would be a great core AFTER an opening, grab their attention, case study of how the Russo-Japanese War was one of the first where deaths from fighting exceeded deaths from disease. Gotta keep the boys interested with some gore.
Then, onto the series "Microbes and Men", with updates to modern sensibilities; prolly pretty cheap to get a license because of the age.
The bill, itself, somewhat specifically but assuredly implicitly, says 'Compare and contrast' the documented, demonstrable Science with assertions about Invisible Sky Daddies. In my opinion, the meaningless, anecdotal, personal-opinion-based assertions.
It all turns into a tacit "WhereTF IS your God?!" class.
Every time I see that He Gets Us tagline, I envision a Far Side-style cartoon of syphilis bacteria swarming in the Beloved Disciple's body, watching Jesus approach and telling each other "He Gets Us." Guess I'm going to hell, huh?
...and if he actually succeeded in getting that pants-on-head stupidity passed into law, I'm ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ that ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ฃ๐ฐ๐ฅ๐บ would ๐ฆ๐ท๐ฆ๐ณ try to use that law as a basis for eliminating things like paid sick leave (or any sick leave at all), sick days for schoolchildren, medicaid, and all manner of other health-related benefits, on the grounds that if you're sick, then you must've made the Goddything angry, so you deserve to be miserable and get back to work, you freeloader. Right? ๐๐ช๐จ๐ฉ๐ต?
โฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ธ ๐ด๐ช๐ค๐ฌ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ด๐ด, ๐ฅ๐ช๐ด๐ฆ๐ข๐ด๐ฆ, ๐ฑ๐ข๐ช๐ฏ, ๐ด๐ถ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ, ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ข๐ต๐ฉ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฒ๐ถ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐ฆ ๐ช๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ฃ๐บ ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐๐ณ๐ฆ๐ข๐ต๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ฐ๐ง ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ฆ๐น ๐ญ๐ช๐ท๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ฐ๐ณ๐จ๐ข๐ฏ๐ช๐ด๐ฎ๐ด.
This is supposed to be a "scientific fact," eh, Glenn? If so, I have a simple question for you:
๐ช๐๐๐ฅ๐ ๐๐ฆ ๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ฅ ๐๐ฉ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐ ๐๐ข๐ฅ ๐ง๐๐๐ฆ ๐ฃ๐จ๐ง๐๐ง๐๐ฉ๐ โ๐๐ข๐???โ
Further, I want you to show precisely HOW this deity of yours is directly responsible for the creation of bacteria and viruses which are the demonstrable origin of many of the sicknesses and diseases and subsequent pain, suffering, and sometimes death that living beings, both human and others, are subjected to. You seem to have lost sight of the fact that science deals with demonstrable phenomena, which it studies, experiments on, analyzes, and hypothesizes explanations to further advance our understanding of this reality.
Your god is NOT demonstrable, not in any real, objective sense, and until it is, I see no reason to attempt to incorporate your pet deity in any serious discussion regarding science, research, or any investigation into the physical laws which give no sign of having any relation to any form of god.
Put up or shut up.
๐๐จ๐ง๐ฎ๐ฌ ๐ซ๐จ๐ฎ๐ง๐: argue, ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ท๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ฏ๐จ๐ญ๐บ, that your deity actually deserves to be worshiped after having deliberately inflicted all of that horror on its creations.
Any being, Deity or mortal, that desires worship is not worthy of it.
Hear-hear! If you're gonna lay on the theodicy argument, lay it on HARD!
"But,but... I prayed and I got a parking spot right up front with a little blue sign in front of it."
You stole my comment and improved it. What am I going to do now?
Ummm ... improvise? ๐
Can't do that. It's too obvious.
This article was up for 2 hours before I logged on. You basically said everything I wanted to say, damn your eyes. ;)
What can I say? I got up at 6:30 this AM and this was published around 9, EST. So I'm an oily boyd!
Cue up endless bogus counter-arguments from the soft Christians. "Oh, it gives people comfort."
It may give comfort, itโs still doesnโt rise to the level of โscientific factโ. Which means it isnโt worthy of teaching in science class.
Opium and purpose-made substitutes like Heroin give people comfort, but even the soft Christians will sputter and deny those any sacred status.
The study of Theodicy is unfortunately (and amazingly) still A Thing, regardless of the fact you can get rid of the God-i-ness involved and nothing else in Reality changes. Well, nothing changes except the absence of all the whining from people who need Invisible Sky Daddies to keep them from wetting their pants while also furnishing their lives with off-the-shelf, "Accept No Substitutes" "Terms & Conditions Apply", Capital-M, Meaning.
Hey everyone, gruenhagen just admitted that his god is a sadistic asshole ๐
Not news. Richard Dawkins laid that out in Tฬฒhฬฒeฬฒ ฬฒGฬฒoฬฒdฬฒ ฬฒDฬฒeฬฒlฬฒuฬฒsฬฒiฬฒoฬฒnฬฒ 15 years ago!
To quote "The End of a Symphony",
"On this farm he had a hen,
Uh-oh, here they come, again."
Ahhhh, Allan Sherman! I have that, both on vinyl and CD and it is GREAT fun!
โAnd we all have heard the saying that is true as well as witty / That a camel is a horse that was designed by a committee!โ
Atheists doesn't count since they know it.
*Yawn*
Back to sleeping.
Read the post or ask NOGODZPEDIA :)
I am going back to sleep away my allergy.
You must have been taking a piss when the Super Bowl ads ran.
Which one? The "Clueless" flashback, the "Grease" rip-off, or the "Jesus doesn't want us to be adults" BS?
I didn't watch the SB.
If an Advert airs in the Super Bowl, is it still assumed to be nothing but lies IF ...
...๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ข๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ .
Nah. Sounds like mere constituent fodder/optics to me. A Republican legislatie priority would be treated a lot differently by the rest of the Republicans in the State Senate.
Off-topic but related, that Montana "teach science facts not theories" bill died in committee, with the vote being 11-0 to table it. Though the sponsor whined about it, so he was probably sincere.
Nice followup on the related story.
Wonder if the Small Government, Money Grubbing GOP has ever thought of requiring a DEPOSIT on every bill submitted to the legislative process, and which gets confiscated if bill doesn't get sent on to the body for a vote by at least a party-line margin?
You know, a deposit that cannot be claimed on expenses and comes directly out of the pay of the legislators, themselves, or any benefits of their constituents, like money for a new futball field or 10 Commandments Statue?
You know a deposit large enough to cover the Overhead in the process, outside the in-duh-vidual legislator's office of patronage appointees?
That would just be used for more bigotry. "Gee Montana school board, I really would like to honor your African American Teacher of the Year, but I just don't have the funds for it right now. Staffer, see these good constituents out, and get me that Bible Appreciation Day bill for review while you're at it."
Thought about that.
Get another, less-grandstanding person to offer the bill.
After all, inspiring bills EVERYONE can consider seriously is the WHOLE POINT, so someone else, even from across the aisle, is gonna be able to offer it up?
Or, is that too aspirational?
Pretty sure 'the whole point' is reelection. Good governance occurs only insofar as it tends, a bit more than a coin flip, to lead to reelection.
One would hope that Minnesota would have as much common sense as Montana, but in this day and age, I'm not so sanguine about that.
Well that bill is certainly contradictory, you canโt have scientific facts confirming Godโs wrath on individuals. Thereโs no scientific anything that comes close to living up to the very idea of scientific fact of disease being a consequence imposed by god or creator.
Disease is a consequence of simply living on earth with the variety of life that resides on it, people, viruses, germs, plants, animals and so forth. If all disease was caused by being punished for sinning, why did Mother Theresa (the ghoul) get ill despite being a saint? Why would a newborn baby deserve whooping cough? My cat be punished with a sinus infection? It doesnโt even make sense within the claim.
I wish people would just once look beyond the R at the end of a politicianโs name and see them for the fucking corrupt morons they are.
I think millions do. They *like* that they're fucking corrupt morons. 75 million voted for the Orange Liar. The stupidity is almost as much the point as the cruelty.
Where this idiocy would go:
"...exploring the contrast between the scientific facts on how...
...lightning is caused by strong electric charges moving between clouds and the ground, and how lightning bolts are spears thrown by God."
...the sun and stars are large spheroids of hydrogen and helium creating heat and radiation through nuclear fusion in their cores, and how they are lanterns hung by God on crystal spheres surrounding the Earth."
...nature is governed by observable and testable laws of physics, and how everything is done by God's magic."
__________
The Constitution is the only thing protecting us from living in a nightmare theocratic lunatic asylum.
The constitution is not doing such a brilliant job since Trump managed to stack the Supreme Court with lunatics though is it?
They treat the Constitution like the bible. Cherry-pick and tie themselves in knots that it doesn't mean what it says.
Not to mention a couple of more red states and they'll rewrite it anyway. Article 6 is gone, the First Amendment will be unrecognizable and the minimum voting age will be at least 50.
The Constitution is a collection of words, soon to be worth less than the paper they're written on.
Creator? I have TWO creators. I called them mom and dad.
Creator, Googy? You do know that there is more than just your own creation myth, right? No? Let me enlighten you on just how many different creation myths there are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths
All are no more or less valid then your own. What's that, you say? Yours is the only correct one? Sorry, that's "special pleading," a logical fallacy. Fail.
I'm a fan of the creation myths where the universe is masturbated into creation. I'm working on becoming a god myself.
Just now reading "The Myths of the Popol Vuh in Cosmology, Art & Ritual".
A nice break from the normal Abrahamic twaddle and the stupendously over-thought Vedas.
Also, implicitly eviscerates a lot of the von Daniken mind-wank in image interpretation.
" โฆ and how sickness, disease, pain, suffering, and death are a consequence imposed by the Creator of complex living organisms."
If that is a scientific fact, then it follows that it must also be a demonstrable fact that "the Creator" is a willful, arbitrary, vicious monster, nothing like the "loving God" the christers promote. I can't honestly say I regard it as a scientific fact that "God" is vicious; that would be skipping several crucial steps (i.e. the scientific and factual bits). But it is certainly a fact that the god portrayed in the bible is a capricious fiend.
Anyone else suspect he meant HIV, but thought that was too "on-the-nose" to try to pass this off as a critical thinking bill?
Or is he just a disciple of "Mother" Teresa?
"Importance of Morality and Religion in Government."
Ummmm, no. The founders made it very clear that our secular government was to remain strictly neutral on the matter of religion. And as far as morality goes? We've seen just how very amoral religion is, time and time and time again.
Keep your religion confined to the walls of your homes and places of worship.
The brand of "morality" that the bible promotes is at the point of a gun ... and as it comes to that:
๐๐ง ๐ช๐ต ๐ต๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ข๐ต ๐ฐ๐ง ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ญ๐ญ ๐ต๐ฐ ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐บ๐ฐ๐ถ ๐ข ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ข๐ญ ๐ฑ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ด๐ฐ๐ฏ, ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ฏ ๐บ๐ฐ๐ถ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ข๐ต ๐ข๐ญ๐ญ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ข๐ญ, ๐บ๐ฐ๐ถ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ซ๐ถ๐ด๐ต ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ธ๐ข๐ณ๐ฅ ๐ธ๐ฉ๐ฐ ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ฅ๐ด ๐ธ๐ฆ๐ญ๐ญ ๐ต๐ฐ ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ข๐ต๐ด.
-- Leo Wolf
Yeah, but ever since 2016 the founders have been foundering.
Franklin tried to warn us when he was asked what kind of government we would have (monarchy or republic).
"A republic...if you can keep it."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/131232122/former-scoutmaster-jailed-three-years-seven-months-for-indecencies-with-boys
It just goes on and on don't it.๐
Unfortunately, there will always be people who prey on teenagers. And they will always seek positions of authority to facilitate their hunt. I don't know if they just get off on the power or are too feckless to handle relationships with peers, but I fear they will always be with us.
Yes but we need to do a better job of keeping them away from teens, and giving them proper treatment.
Scientific fact vs god. Not a fair fight. Gods have never won.
Ever heard of the Great Lisbon Earthquake and ensuing auto-da-fa?
Sounds like God won that one.
Voltaire and Bernstein seem to have thought so.
Weeellll, I could have a FIELD DAY on that course description, and I don't think he'd like it.
"Plagues and Peoples" as a timeline, along with some desultory "Religion for Idiots" texts, would be a great core AFTER an opening, grab their attention, case study of how the Russo-Japanese War was one of the first where deaths from fighting exceeded deaths from disease. Gotta keep the boys interested with some gore.
Then, onto the series "Microbes and Men", with updates to modern sensibilities; prolly pretty cheap to get a license because of the age.
The bill, itself, somewhat specifically but assuredly implicitly, says 'Compare and contrast' the documented, demonstrable Science with assertions about Invisible Sky Daddies. In my opinion, the meaningless, anecdotal, personal-opinion-based assertions.
It all turns into a tacit "WhereTF IS your God?!" class.
Just another standard, useless Republican legislation that denies reality. "He Gets Us?"
Every time I see that He Gets Us tagline, I envision a Far Side-style cartoon of syphilis bacteria swarming in the Beloved Disciple's body, watching Jesus approach and telling each other "He Gets Us." Guess I'm going to hell, huh?
The Christian religion has certainly been "getting" people for 2 millennia.
Its record is soaked in blood.
"Jesus loves who we hate."
Yeah, that's some good christianing they got there.
"It's the best there is!"
...and if he actually succeeded in getting that pants-on-head stupidity passed into law, I'm ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ that ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ฃ๐ฐ๐ฅ๐บ would ๐ฆ๐ท๐ฆ๐ณ try to use that law as a basis for eliminating things like paid sick leave (or any sick leave at all), sick days for schoolchildren, medicaid, and all manner of other health-related benefits, on the grounds that if you're sick, then you must've made the Goddything angry, so you deserve to be miserable and get back to work, you freeloader. Right? ๐๐ช๐จ๐ฉ๐ต?
https://www.zentaur.org/memes/healthcare_work.jpg
https://www.thedailybeast.com/charlottesville-tiki-torcher-teddy-joseph-von-nukem-killed-himself-before-trial
Can't help thinking the world is a slightly better place.
Much better. The only loss is that he wasn't a Duke.
Projection. It is religion that is a sickness, a plague upon humanity.