Christianity did not spread because of the profundity of its message, but by the quantity of its violence. There is the presupposition among Christians, particularly missionaries, that their religion has spread nothing but good in the world. History does not support this claim because it is as far from the truth as it can get. I would like to think the Maori are ahead of the curve.
If anyone tries to refute this splendidly worded truth - refer them to the actual history of Europe, starting with the Empire. Xianity is a ferocious, blood-drowned, purposely cruel endeavor, spread not by the “peace” of Christ - but the fire, swords, and brute tactics of the Roman legions.
They tired of having only bureaucracy to administer an increasingly expensive realm, they needed a way to raise more revenue and cause some homogeneity.
Unfortunately for Rome, their bureaucracy was supplanted by this monarchy - because that’s what it is. The emperor conceded both Rome, and the throne to a new emperor.
That emperor was a vicious, ill-tempered vengeful hate-filled god of the Middle East. It came under the guise of a figure named jesus. Yet, jesus came saying he was there to enforce every jot and tittle of the OLD LAW. It came offering eternal vengeance for imaginary sins. This was not punishment for sins, but total revenge for having offended an almighty being. It was a control thing to force mankind to the will of despotic men demanding everyone follow their bidding with NO dissent allowed. Religion under that god became a totalitarian dictatorship demanding control over people even after death.
You left out another powerful reason for its spread. It was used on European rulers by telling these rulers that by conversion they could solidify strength and legitimacy of their throne claiming connection to God. This is the same effective technique all the way back to Sumeria and Egypt to give the leader/ruler connection to a powerful god. In other words, it was part of a power grab by the Catholic Church to solidify power into kings that were controlled by the church.
Everyone knows the concept that in order to survive, often individuals, governments, species, etc. must evolve to survive. The Roman Empire never died, it evolved. Eastern Orthodoxy to the Byzantine Empire and Catholicism in Rome, after they split apart. So it seems the Catholic Church represents continued greed, lust for power, brutality, control over women, slavery of the Roman Empire.
Remember, the early bibles were in Latin and common people could not read them. Keeps control, keeps power.
I'm not sure when the divine right of kings became a thing, but yes. Authoritarian rulers and conservative religion are natural allies. It is a symbiotic relationship that has dealt the human race incredible misery.
Defining beginnings are always fuzzy and arguable. However, in my understanding, the concept of the Divine Right of Kings climbed to some real power with Charlemagne.
I am French. Don't ask me to write the name of the 10 first American Presidents or who was King of England in 1776, I just know that whoever it was Louis XV loved to fuck with him 😁
It’s funny that maori people themselves say that you shouldn’t take away the agency from their ancestors that they deliver took the decision to accept Christianity because of some benefits and they believed it to be true.
Yes—Christianity has been misused. But don’t confuse the corruption of men with the truth of God. Don’t let bad history or emotional TikToks blind you to the glory of Christ, who came not to rule nations but to save souls.
If you’re rejecting a caricature of Christianity, you’re not brave—you’re misled. The true faith is found in Orthodox Christianity, the Church of the Apostles, the martyrs, and the saints. It’s not about colonialism or control. It’s about Christ crucified and risen, calling all nations to life.
It’s funny that maori people themselves say that you shouldn’t take away the agency from their ancestors that they deliver took the decision to accept Christianity because of some benefits and they believed it to be true.
I don't understand why the Maori are turning their backs on the one true God. I was sure that if all of the lootings, killing and raping didn't convince them, then the years of institutionalized racism would have. I guess I just don't understand people these days.
...it was you. You guys did the election fraud. You literally would've found it if you looked in a mirror instead of hiring grifters to check ballots for bamboo fibers or whateverthefuck that clown show was all about.
I'm surprised they have a hard time with: "My God loves you and I'm going to murder and oppress as many of you as I need to until you accept his love."
Reminds me of why the SBC formed. Many slave-holding southern baptists at the time pointed out that it was a really bad tactical move for missionary priests to take their black slaves with them to Africa on missions. Not that they disagreed with slavery, they were just conscious that the optics would make it much harder to convert people. So they created a 'no slaves on missions' rule. But the baptists that would become the SBC said screw that, we're taking our slaves, and we're going to form our own sect if you won't let us.
Once, Christianity controlled vast fleets and armies, but now its power over life and death- and therefore, its power to fill its churches with fearful, unwilling converts- is a pale shadow of what it once was. May its influence continue to recede until its deity, his son, and all their host of angels join the likes of Zeus and Ra- just another body of mythology to be studied, but never again believed.
This article just further corroborates that white Christianity is on its way out, slowly but surely. Indigenous peoples have had enough of this bullshit. Even if expressing no religion is their choice, they have a rich culture in which to engage.
In Hawaii, in 1819, due partly in response to Western, but not Christian, influence, the native religion of the Hawaiians, very similar to the maori, collapsed. Kamehameha II, Alexander Liholiho, sat down with the women and ate dinner. The Kapu system, which was the basis of their religion and social structure, completely collapsed as a result.
In 1820, the missionaries from the United States showed up. The hawaiians had just had their culture destroyed and continued to be devastated by western diseases. The christian missionaries were perfectly positioned to take over.
Eventually, their children and grandchildren did. That was followed by the United States taking over, the highly religious United States. Hawaiian language was eventually lost, and Hawaiian culture turned into a tourist attraction. (I understand that that is both an over statement and over simplification).
The maori, as I understand it, were able to retain both language and their cultural identification. And they survived as a reasonably distinct people into the 21st-century. And I suspect that that is perhaps of the greatest significance.
The Hawaiian renaissance began on the late 60's, when I was a boy in Hawaii. I was even a part of it, but not much. But I suspect that 1) it was already too late, and 2) a lot of the leaders of that renaissance were far less Christian than their parents. But I don't know that and can cite no facts.
Only 5 of them. The others are tripling it down. Good strategy from the Democrats, wether their bills pass or not, they keep this topic in the view of voters.
This causes me to reflect on that island in the Indian Ocean which is off limits to outsiders in order to preserve the cultural traditions of the island's historic inhabitants, which include fervent isolationism. The island made the news a year or two ago because some young evangelist decided that God had told them that it was his heavenly duty to go and bring the Word of God to those unfortunate heathens. He made it about 5 steps onto the beach before he was full of arrows.
God remains mum on the mysteries of his holy plan.
It's like the bear guy, who thought grizzly bears (territorial, mean tempered, 6 inch claws and 4 inch canines). were his friends. Turns out he (and the girlfriend) were dinner.
Sixteen people is not enough to draw a decent conclusion, however it seems that the responses were similar enough to justify a closer look. They found 16 people with nearly the same answer, which is remarkable all by itself. Aside from certain instances where a large group has been trained to respond to questions in a specific manner, random folks are not going to come up with the same answer, especially atheists (something about herding cats).
I’m not surprised that these people see the harm of Christianity and it’s missionaries, it’s too bad it didn’t happen sooner and to more indigenous peoples around the world.
The one that really makes me sad is the african slaves, they raped them spiritually, and now their descendents seem to have adopted the captor's false gods.
Christianity did not spread because of the profundity of its message, but by the quantity of its violence. There is the presupposition among Christians, particularly missionaries, that their religion has spread nothing but good in the world. History does not support this claim because it is as far from the truth as it can get. I would like to think the Maori are ahead of the curve.
If anyone tries to refute this splendidly worded truth - refer them to the actual history of Europe, starting with the Empire. Xianity is a ferocious, blood-drowned, purposely cruel endeavor, spread not by the “peace” of Christ - but the fire, swords, and brute tactics of the Roman legions.
They tired of having only bureaucracy to administer an increasingly expensive realm, they needed a way to raise more revenue and cause some homogeneity.
Unfortunately for Rome, their bureaucracy was supplanted by this monarchy - because that’s what it is. The emperor conceded both Rome, and the throne to a new emperor.
More accurately, he hightailed it over to byzantium, and left rome in the hands of its new masters.
Then the blood started flowing.
That emperor was a vicious, ill-tempered vengeful hate-filled god of the Middle East. It came under the guise of a figure named jesus. Yet, jesus came saying he was there to enforce every jot and tittle of the OLD LAW. It came offering eternal vengeance for imaginary sins. This was not punishment for sins, but total revenge for having offended an almighty being. It was a control thing to force mankind to the will of despotic men demanding everyone follow their bidding with NO dissent allowed. Religion under that god became a totalitarian dictatorship demanding control over people even after death.
🥱🥱Again common atheist who equates Christianity not with the person of Jesus Christ, but with colonialism, Western dominance, and cultural erasure.
Yeah, the colonialism and cultural erasure was the point. Roman rulers weren’t stupid people.
You left out another powerful reason for its spread. It was used on European rulers by telling these rulers that by conversion they could solidify strength and legitimacy of their throne claiming connection to God. This is the same effective technique all the way back to Sumeria and Egypt to give the leader/ruler connection to a powerful god. In other words, it was part of a power grab by the Catholic Church to solidify power into kings that were controlled by the church.
Everyone knows the concept that in order to survive, often individuals, governments, species, etc. must evolve to survive. The Roman Empire never died, it evolved. Eastern Orthodoxy to the Byzantine Empire and Catholicism in Rome, after they split apart. So it seems the Catholic Church represents continued greed, lust for power, brutality, control over women, slavery of the Roman Empire.
Remember, the early bibles were in Latin and common people could not read them. Keeps control, keeps power.
I'm not sure when the divine right of kings became a thing, but yes. Authoritarian rulers and conservative religion are natural allies. It is a symbiotic relationship that has dealt the human race incredible misery.
Defining beginnings are always fuzzy and arguable. However, in my understanding, the concept of the Divine Right of Kings climbed to some real power with Charlemagne.
Climbed is the right word. It started with the first christian Frank King Clovis.
Thank you for reminding me of this King.
I am French. Don't ask me to write the name of the 10 first American Presidents or who was King of England in 1776, I just know that whoever it was Louis XV loved to fuck with him 😁
That would be a huge step forward for humankind.
If Christianity spread by violence, why were its first heroes crucified, burned, and beheaded? The truth was never forced—it was died for.
They weren’t. Show us the records where “Xians” were more persecuted by any group by Roman civil authorities.
I’m sorry you’re new to all this, but all of it was invented.
It’s funny that maori people themselves say that you shouldn’t take away the agency from their ancestors that they deliver took the decision to accept Christianity because of some benefits and they believed it to be true.
Yes—Christianity has been misused. But don’t confuse the corruption of men with the truth of God. Don’t let bad history or emotional TikToks blind you to the glory of Christ, who came not to rule nations but to save souls.
If you’re rejecting a caricature of Christianity, you’re not brave—you’re misled. The true faith is found in Orthodox Christianity, the Church of the Apostles, the martyrs, and the saints. It’s not about colonialism or control. It’s about Christ crucified and risen, calling all nations to life.
Cool story. Then everyone clapped for you.
Keep it in the pew, and we have no problems.
It’s funny that maori people themselves say that you shouldn’t take away the agency from their ancestors that they deliver took the decision to accept Christianity because of some benefits and they believed it to be true.
It would seem as though the Maori saw through Christianity's BS. Would that the US could be as smart.
Enow spake.
It helped that Christianity was demonizing their native religion and beliefs.
Except it didn't work that way everywhere, starting with Europe.
I don't understand why the Maori are turning their backs on the one true God. I was sure that if all of the lootings, killing and raping didn't convince them, then the years of institutionalized racism would have. I guess I just don't understand people these days.
Subtle, and brilliant.
It's down under, every thing is up-side down.
OT- Hey, Republicans, look! We found some of that election fraud you were looking for! https://apnews.com/article/arizona-fake-electors-charges-2020-election-9da5a7e58814ed55ceea1ca55401af85
...it was you. You guys did the election fraud. You literally would've found it if you looked in a mirror instead of hiring grifters to check ballots for bamboo fibers or whateverthefuck that clown show was all about.
Guerillasugeon beat you to it by 10 minutes. :D
The GQP loves to project. Then they get caught in the very activity they falsely accuse others of.
Awww drat. Scooped!
*edit- That's what I get for letting youtube distract me in between reading and posting.
To your defense, GS has a about a whole day on you.
But-but-but, Cat Videos!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glJM9MwO01s
Story of my life. Always distracted.
I saw that article too and elsewhere. About fucking time. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I think the bamboo ballots are still in a barn somewhere in Minnesota.
Maybe they're in that pizza shop basement.
Or a brothel on Mars.
They were destroyed by Jewish Space Lasers to hide the evidence.
I'm surprised they have a hard time with: "My God loves you and I'm going to murder and oppress as many of you as I need to until you accept his love."
Shocked, really.
Reminds me of why the SBC formed. Many slave-holding southern baptists at the time pointed out that it was a really bad tactical move for missionary priests to take their black slaves with them to Africa on missions. Not that they disagreed with slavery, they were just conscious that the optics would make it much harder to convert people. So they created a 'no slaves on missions' rule. But the baptists that would become the SBC said screw that, we're taking our slaves, and we're going to form our own sect if you won't let us.
I knew they split over slavery, but I didn't know the details, thanks for that.
This is it.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/440343088_1660606774725678_5202585799775484442_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=L1cDTuCBNgEAb4q6GCD&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfAqwdmU_AKngMSsE9AYdyH0Ekpx39v-lHLElQ0d5eOuZg&oe=662F2D82
Once, Christianity controlled vast fleets and armies, but now its power over life and death- and therefore, its power to fill its churches with fearful, unwilling converts- is a pale shadow of what it once was. May its influence continue to recede until its deity, his son, and all their host of angels join the likes of Zeus and Ra- just another body of mythology to be studied, but never again believed.
Christian missionary
def.
"Someone who barges into your home uninvited and tells you your whole way of life is wrong."
Long past time to kick the religion of the intruders to the curb.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d9e2aab88c0ad37dcfc82b090885588c46efb575a2733e9456a3ada77e1d57bd.jpg
That’s a steep drop in adherence to Christianity. Hope it continues to drop.
I hope it becomes endemic, and only the actual people following the nice liberal jesus's words of love thy neighbor types remain.
Those convinced by force remain unconvinced.
This article just further corroborates that white Christianity is on its way out, slowly but surely. Indigenous peoples have had enough of this bullshit. Even if expressing no religion is their choice, they have a rich culture in which to engage.
Remove away that blackning church
Remove away that marriage hearse
Remove away that man of blood
Youll quite remove the ancient curse
William Blake - a Prometheus rising indeed!
In Hawaii, in 1819, due partly in response to Western, but not Christian, influence, the native religion of the Hawaiians, very similar to the maori, collapsed. Kamehameha II, Alexander Liholiho, sat down with the women and ate dinner. The Kapu system, which was the basis of their religion and social structure, completely collapsed as a result.
In 1820, the missionaries from the United States showed up. The hawaiians had just had their culture destroyed and continued to be devastated by western diseases. The christian missionaries were perfectly positioned to take over.
Eventually, their children and grandchildren did. That was followed by the United States taking over, the highly religious United States. Hawaiian language was eventually lost, and Hawaiian culture turned into a tourist attraction. (I understand that that is both an over statement and over simplification).
The maori, as I understand it, were able to retain both language and their cultural identification. And they survived as a reasonably distinct people into the 21st-century. And I suspect that that is perhaps of the greatest significance.
The Hawaiian renaissance began on the late 60's, when I was a boy in Hawaii. I was even a part of it, but not much. But I suspect that 1) it was already too late, and 2) a lot of the leaders of that renaissance were far less Christian than their parents. But I don't know that and can cite no facts.
https://nationalzero.com/2024/04/24/arizona-state-house-passes-repeal-of-1864-abortion-ban/
Beat ya to it by 2 hours. :)
yes you did. oppps.
S'ok. Needs to be reiterated.
OT
Waddaya know? The Arizona state House passed a bill to repeal the 1864 near-total abortion ban.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/arizona-state-house-passes-a-bill-to-repeal-1864-abortion-ban/ar-AA1nATUx
"To see how this has been turned against one party and used as a weaponization of the issue is disgusting,"
Is he fucking kidding? Republicans have been weaponizing abortion restrictions for at least 40 years.
Lake is dancing a jig. She had to be tired of trying to dance around abortion.
Are they finally realising it's an election loser? Might be a bit late.
Only 5 of them. The others are tripling it down. Good strategy from the Democrats, wether their bills pass or not, they keep this topic in the view of voters.
This causes me to reflect on that island in the Indian Ocean which is off limits to outsiders in order to preserve the cultural traditions of the island's historic inhabitants, which include fervent isolationism. The island made the news a year or two ago because some young evangelist decided that God had told them that it was his heavenly duty to go and bring the Word of God to those unfortunate heathens. He made it about 5 steps onto the beach before he was full of arrows.
God remains mum on the mysteries of his holy plan.
This guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Chau
Let this be a warning, Christians. This isn't the old days.
Karma's a bitch.
Especially the "Instant" version as his was.
He sure got the point. Repeatedly.
Never argue with 20 men who can shoot a mouse out of a tree 100 feet away with an arrow.
He was told it was illegal, and would endanger them by bringing in diseases they had no immunity to, and the asshole went anyway.
His book tells him to obey all earthly laws and authorities. He ignored that and patted himself on the back for getting around the patrols.
In the end, his arrogance cost him his life.
Best example of instant karma, ever.
*insert American Gods meme clip*
https://imgur.com/gallery/LcvU4
It's like the bear guy, who thought grizzly bears (territorial, mean tempered, 6 inch claws and 4 inch canines). were his friends. Turns out he (and the girlfriend) were dinner.
"You chose...unwisely."
Sixteen people is not enough to draw a decent conclusion, however it seems that the responses were similar enough to justify a closer look. They found 16 people with nearly the same answer, which is remarkable all by itself. Aside from certain instances where a large group has been trained to respond to questions in a specific manner, random folks are not going to come up with the same answer, especially atheists (something about herding cats).
I’m not surprised that these people see the harm of Christianity and it’s missionaries, it’s too bad it didn’t happen sooner and to more indigenous peoples around the world.
The one that really makes me sad is the african slaves, they raped them spiritually, and now their descendents seem to have adopted the captor's false gods.
If Jesus died for our sins, then Jesus died for the 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ community.
Try to argue your way out of that. 😂
Jesus died so his followers can wear pendants of a lower case t.
His followers put scenes of his executions all over the place, to remind him who is REALLY in charge...
Definitely not some dead guy