Maine lets private schools receive taxpayer-funded tuition dollars as long as they follow the state's Human Rights Act. A Christian church refuses to do so.
The real solution, and the one that should have been implemented ages ago, is to bite the bullet and build more public schools to service these students who don’t have access. That is the very purpose of the public school system. Yeah it will be expensive and cost a lot of money, but that is the reason we ask our government to do it rather than a corporation. Public schools do not make money, they cost money, we pay for this through taxes. We build roads to these areas, we provide utility services to these areas, we need to provide schools to these areas. Avoid the entire mess completely by doing what they are supposed to do in the first fucking place. Then, if parents want to send their children to the private religious schools, they pay for them themselves.
The ex-wife of an old friend of mine had 4 people in her HS graduating class. As you say, we *can* serve remote communities. If we are willing to pay for it. Post-covid it should even be a lot easier, as remote learning is much more integrated into our systems now. Heck my kid does a lot of his school assignments on an ipad now, even though he goes to a regular brick and mortar school. Now no, a fully remote option is not as good as face to face. But it's not terrible either.
Taking money from the state? Shouldn't they just pray, and the Lord will provide?
Heck... this is for Christian indoctrination programs... their core doctrine. Shouldn't they be able to find some rich Televangelist sugar daddy to fund them?
Didn't Ben Franklin post this on his MySpace page? "When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig’d to call for the help of the Civil Power, ’tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
At the end of the day, these church schools have a far greater interest in indoctrinating children with supernatural nonsense before they've reached the age of reason, than they do with genuine education. No religious school should ever get a cent of public money, for any reason. The fixation with childhood indoctrination speaks directly to just how weak theistic arguments are.
I've heard it more times than I can count: "Get 'em while they're YOUNG." Get them while they're innocent, before they've cultured an awareness of the world and can take an inquiring or skeptical view of it. Pound the dogma into their brains until it becomes an extension of themselves and throw in an unhealthy dose of fear-of-hell to further secure its position.
And whatever you do, DON'T let them think for themselves.
That was my father. He went to his grave convinced you simply could not question anything the Catholic church taught. He never made it past high school, and never read a book in his life, but he knew the church's rule book.
"You can't question God's will, just have faith and believe." Can't tell you how many times I heard that from Catholic priests and protestant ministers, while taking my small change my family could ill afford to give.
I can't stand the phrase "sincerely held belief", it's useless. Just because someone sincerely believes something doesn't mean it's true or not horribly bigoted. Glad the lawmakers in Maine don't seem to be having any of the nonsense, although if churches want to tie their very identity to the side that's rapidly falling to the wrong side of history I'm fine with that.
The people who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center did so out of their sincerely held beliefs. Hitler seemed to be pretty sincere about his beliefs as well.
I agree. The bottom line for me is simply that no matter how fervently or 'sincerely' a belief is held, it can still be wrong. For instance, no matter how much someone believes the sun will come up in the west tomorrow, we all know that's not going to happen.
I feel like allowing people their 'sincerely held beliefs' sometimes equates to allowing them to be, well, insane to some degree. That might be a bit extreme, but there's a difference between believing the moon is made of green cheese and believing the aliens are taking over the government. The first might be mostly harmless, but the second might get people killed if taken to an extreme. Do we really want 'sincerely held belief' to be an acceptable excuse for murder?
Yeah. Those extremes really are extreme, aren't they?
There it is, folks, in black and white: the Supreme Court of the United States, tasked with defending the Constitution, has decided that one of that document's most important principles is somehow unconstitutional? Next thing you know, they'll be telling us that war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.
Nah, wait, the Republican party is already telling us that.
Here’s the very reason the SCOTUS decision was wrong.
If the state must fund an organization that is exempt from the state’s human rights act, what’s the point of having a human rights act. Which is the point of these right wing bigots pushing for their exemption and the other organizations and politicians that support this case. The right wing does not want human rights, they have been fighting against the very idea of human rights since it was first imagined.
Popes have always followed "Rome's Syllabus of Errors." Pope Pus IX on Dec. 8, 1864 finalized it. This compendium of inhuman totalitarian control is the guiding light of the catholic church. ANY human thoughts of freedom are wrong, is basically what it says.
Well, I just want them to have to play by the same rules as other 503(c) organizations. The fact that that would lead to many of them being taxed is gravy.
If there was one thing our Founding Fathers wanted to assure us was Freedom of Religion with no religion dominating over another and the Separation of Church and State. Many of our first colonists fled religious persecution and did not want to see it in their new country. There should never be taxpayer dollars funding any religious organizations, be it school, foundation, church, synagogue, etc. Many of us, especially women and "others" are being persecuted by the Ultra-Right religious today because we have allowed them in our government, since 1954 and they are legislating THEIR laws for the rest of us. If we are to save our democracy this has to stop.
My son can't drive a manual. But I don't blame him in the slightest, as soon I changed to an automatic, I was converted. I used to drive my mother's automatic and was always hitting the brake when I meant the clutch, which of course it didn't have. But since I got my own automatic I have never done it even once. Last time I looked at buying a car there weren't that many manuals around.
My eldest only just got his license a week ago at 19 yo, he cannot drive a manual. Hell, this morning he ran over our mailbox, he can barely drive an automatic. But he’s doing alright considering his autism and ADHD anxiety and whatnot. The mailbox is minor. My hubs, who can drive pretty much anything he can fit into and has driven all the military vehicles that are ground based, totaled the car his parents let him drive the first day with his license and they just gave him another when he told them. (They had a boat load of junkers from the auctions for some reason, nothing nice, mostly Yugos and gremlins). He was fine with the mailbox this morning, the truck wasn’t even scratched. Anyway, kiddo has to pay to replace the mailbox.
Fun story, that’s all. I’ve been laughing about it all day.
I did nothing to cause that, it happened all in its own.
It was the wiring for the tow hitch that was improperly installed. Insurance paid for the repairs minus $250 deductible and I talked to the dealership that did the install and they’re probably going to reimburse me for the deductible. So, I’m doing alright there.
You probably have public transport that works. Having experienced superb public transport in China and Japan, I'm a great fan – unfortunately ours doesn't.
That's a shame, because driving a car, especially a manual, which brings in the dance of shifter, clutch, up- and downshifting, can be a great deal of fun. I taught myself to drive manual back in the 60s, and between 1982 and 2022, the cars I owned or leased were exclusively manuals. Sadly, they are fading away and the dance with it.
I learned to drive on stick (stick shift, manual transmission). My first car was a four-on-the-tree (4-speed manual with shift lever on the steering column). Many of the vehicles that I drove in the military were stick, often with hi-low (additional 2-speed manual transmission on-line, doubling the total number of speeds but primarily to have a very low range for pulling heavy in bad conditions).
I enjoy driving stick, especially on twisty windy mountain roads. 🙂
DM was not plussed when she gave me one and only driving lesson. I, in a mysterious fashion, damaged the house (one of the walls shifted and we couldn't close the door anymore) but not the car.
Oh, that is just hilarious. And they got busted almost immediately after trying to flee. I hear the opening vamp of the "Dragnet" theme: "Dumb dumb dumb dumb..."
"Without the exemption, religious schools are subject to investigations, complaints, and large fines for offering instruction consistent with their sincerely held religious beliefs."
Is this even true? I may be getting the law wrong, but anti-discrimination laws are typically about access and equal treatment. They can still *offer instruction* that homosexuality is a sin, what the law says is that they have to accept LGBT+ student applicants and not send them to detention merely for being LGBTQ+. Offer your crappy instruction all you want. You just have to offer it to everyone.
***
In any event, the real solution here is to abolish voucher programs and put that money back into accessible public schools. I'm sure there are many good voucher schools, but the conservative push has always been just an extension of 1950s white flight and an attempt to do an end-run around education standards. Both of which are toxic goals, with the added toxicity of draining money from the public commonwealth. No such end runs should be allowed. Good fences make good neighbors; let private schools be private and public schools be public.
Who do they think they are kidding? Who is going to monitor these fools, the fools who send their kids there? I doubt it, they were brainwashed from the crib and now they are brainwashing their kids.
It's been a LONG time coming, and I am damned glad to see that it is finally HERE ... and very likely, this is the first of at least two or three indictments Trump is facing.
They want money? So sad that they have such little faith. They seem like the very people who keep assuring everybody (like, say, schoolchildren in Nashville) that "God will provide!"
"They also claim the law isn’t “generally applicable” (and therefore legal) since it applies to any school that accepts males and females—which means faith-based, single-sex schools that discriminate against LGBTQ people would be eligible for the tuition money."
The real solution, and the one that should have been implemented ages ago, is to bite the bullet and build more public schools to service these students who don’t have access. That is the very purpose of the public school system. Yeah it will be expensive and cost a lot of money, but that is the reason we ask our government to do it rather than a corporation. Public schools do not make money, they cost money, we pay for this through taxes. We build roads to these areas, we provide utility services to these areas, we need to provide schools to these areas. Avoid the entire mess completely by doing what they are supposed to do in the first fucking place. Then, if parents want to send their children to the private religious schools, they pay for them themselves.
Vouchers are theft of taxpayer money.
The ex-wife of an old friend of mine had 4 people in her HS graduating class. As you say, we *can* serve remote communities. If we are willing to pay for it. Post-covid it should even be a lot easier, as remote learning is much more integrated into our systems now. Heck my kid does a lot of his school assignments on an ipad now, even though he goes to a regular brick and mortar school. Now no, a fully remote option is not as good as face to face. But it's not terrible either.
Bingo.
"The lawsuit goes on to say that the “poison pill” prevents BCS “from teaching from its religious perspective,”
It doesn't prevent them at all, it merely says they don't get to use taxpayer funding for their hateful agenda.
Taking money from the state? Shouldn't they just pray, and the Lord will provide?
Heck... this is for Christian indoctrination programs... their core doctrine. Shouldn't they be able to find some rich Televangelist sugar daddy to fund them?
Pathetic!
Didn't Ben Franklin post this on his MySpace page? "When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig’d to call for the help of the Civil Power, ’tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
At the end of the day, these church schools have a far greater interest in indoctrinating children with supernatural nonsense before they've reached the age of reason, than they do with genuine education. No religious school should ever get a cent of public money, for any reason. The fixation with childhood indoctrination speaks directly to just how weak theistic arguments are.
I've heard it more times than I can count: "Get 'em while they're YOUNG." Get them while they're innocent, before they've cultured an awareness of the world and can take an inquiring or skeptical view of it. Pound the dogma into their brains until it becomes an extension of themselves and throw in an unhealthy dose of fear-of-hell to further secure its position.
And whatever you do, DON'T let them think for themselves.
That was my father. He went to his grave convinced you simply could not question anything the Catholic church taught. He never made it past high school, and never read a book in his life, but he knew the church's rule book.
My father loved to quote "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear" but he still followed the RCC's teachings.
Yet another reason his children thought he wasn't too bright.
"You can't question God's will, just have faith and believe." Can't tell you how many times I heard that from Catholic priests and protestant ministers, while taking my small change my family could ill afford to give.
[TS chuckles to himself softly.] I CAN'T question god's will? 𝗪𝗔𝗧𝗖𝗛 𝗠𝗘!
I can't stand the phrase "sincerely held belief", it's useless. Just because someone sincerely believes something doesn't mean it's true or not horribly bigoted. Glad the lawmakers in Maine don't seem to be having any of the nonsense, although if churches want to tie their very identity to the side that's rapidly falling to the wrong side of history I'm fine with that.
The people who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center did so out of their sincerely held beliefs. Hitler seemed to be pretty sincere about his beliefs as well.
"Oh but that's *different*!" <- people who can't explain how it's different
My sincerely held belief is that I have won every Powerball jackpot ever drawn. I want my money.
I agree. The bottom line for me is simply that no matter how fervently or 'sincerely' a belief is held, it can still be wrong. For instance, no matter how much someone believes the sun will come up in the west tomorrow, we all know that's not going to happen.
I feel like allowing people their 'sincerely held beliefs' sometimes equates to allowing them to be, well, insane to some degree. That might be a bit extreme, but there's a difference between believing the moon is made of green cheese and believing the aliens are taking over the government. The first might be mostly harmless, but the second might get people killed if taken to an extreme. Do we really want 'sincerely held belief' to be an acceptable excuse for murder?
Yeah. Those extremes really are extreme, aren't they?
“𝑇𝑜𝑑𝑎𝑦, 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑡 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑠 𝑢𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑎 𝑝𝑙𝑎𝑐𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑠𝑒𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑠 𝑎 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛.”
There it is, folks, in black and white: the Supreme Court of the United States, tasked with defending the Constitution, has decided that one of that document's most important principles is somehow unconstitutional? Next thing you know, they'll be telling us that war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.
Nah, wait, the Republican party is already telling us that.
Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts
Hot ashes for trees
Hot air for a cool breeze
Those jackasses couldn't get me to give them the time of day.
Here’s the very reason the SCOTUS decision was wrong.
If the state must fund an organization that is exempt from the state’s human rights act, what’s the point of having a human rights act. Which is the point of these right wing bigots pushing for their exemption and the other organizations and politicians that support this case. The right wing does not want human rights, they have been fighting against the very idea of human rights since it was first imagined.
Popes have always followed "Rome's Syllabus of Errors." Pope Pus IX on Dec. 8, 1864 finalized it. This compendium of inhuman totalitarian control is the guiding light of the catholic church. ANY human thoughts of freedom are wrong, is basically what it says.
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm
Tax. The. Damned. Churches. Already.
Well, I just want them to have to play by the same rules as other 503(c) organizations. The fact that that would lead to many of them being taxed is gravy.
To Crosspoint...
What part of "Obey all earthly laws and authorities" found in your bible was unclear to you?
The part where they have to themselves, even when they don’t wanna?
Makes one wonder why the supposed morality merchants always have to be dragged screaming and kicking into doing the right thing.
La totalité.
Let's be real. Hate *is* a core Christian belief. There's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's a feature, not a belief.
Core function.
If there was one thing our Founding Fathers wanted to assure us was Freedom of Religion with no religion dominating over another and the Separation of Church and State. Many of our first colonists fled religious persecution and did not want to see it in their new country. There should never be taxpayer dollars funding any religious organizations, be it school, foundation, church, synagogue, etc. Many of us, especially women and "others" are being persecuted by the Ultra-Right religious today because we have allowed them in our government, since 1954 and they are legislating THEIR laws for the rest of us. If we are to save our democracy this has to stop.
OT:
Levity
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/watch-teens-attempt-to-carjack-man-but-cant-drive-manual-transmission-to-get-away/3316846/
It's been the cry of gearheads and sponsored by Car and Driver magazine for as long as I can remember:
𝗦𝗔𝗩𝗘 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗨𝗔𝗟𝗦!!!
Where owner manuals included instructions on how to adjust valve push rod clearance, it now states DO NOT DRINK BATTERY CONTENTS."
My son can't drive a manual. But I don't blame him in the slightest, as soon I changed to an automatic, I was converted. I used to drive my mother's automatic and was always hitting the brake when I meant the clutch, which of course it didn't have. But since I got my own automatic I have never done it even once. Last time I looked at buying a car there weren't that many manuals around.
I know how to drive an automatic, but I live in a place with a great public transit system, so I don't even own a car.
I wish. :)
My eldest only just got his license a week ago at 19 yo, he cannot drive a manual. Hell, this morning he ran over our mailbox, he can barely drive an automatic. But he’s doing alright considering his autism and ADHD anxiety and whatnot. The mailbox is minor. My hubs, who can drive pretty much anything he can fit into and has driven all the military vehicles that are ground based, totaled the car his parents let him drive the first day with his license and they just gave him another when he told them. (They had a boat load of junkers from the auctions for some reason, nothing nice, mostly Yugos and gremlins). He was fine with the mailbox this morning, the truck wasn’t even scratched. Anyway, kiddo has to pay to replace the mailbox.
Fun story, that’s all. I’ve been laughing about it all day.
At least it didn't start on fire. : )
Ouch.
I did nothing to cause that, it happened all in its own.
It was the wiring for the tow hitch that was improperly installed. Insurance paid for the repairs minus $250 deductible and I talked to the dealership that did the install and they’re probably going to reimburse me for the deductible. So, I’m doing alright there.
I don't know how to drive a car, manual transmission or not 😁
You probably have public transport that works. Having experienced superb public transport in China and Japan, I'm a great fan – unfortunately ours doesn't.
It wouldn't change anything. I would be a disaster behind a wheel, I have a hot temper and I am easily distracted.
I have a hot temper and I used to drive a truck. In NYC.
How many people did you kill ?
None. But I think there were some who needed to change into fresh undergarments after our encounter. ;-)
My first car was a manual transmission. Once you learn that, you never forget how to drive it.
DM's two cars were manuals but it was in the 80's and 90's.
That's a shame, because driving a car, especially a manual, which brings in the dance of shifter, clutch, up- and downshifting, can be a great deal of fun. I taught myself to drive manual back in the 60s, and between 1982 and 2022, the cars I owned or leased were exclusively manuals. Sadly, they are fading away and the dance with it.
It's still fun to drive. Just not as much fun.
I learned to drive on stick (stick shift, manual transmission). My first car was a four-on-the-tree (4-speed manual with shift lever on the steering column). Many of the vehicles that I drove in the military were stick, often with hi-low (additional 2-speed manual transmission on-line, doubling the total number of speeds but primarily to have a very low range for pulling heavy in bad conditions).
I enjoy driving stick, especially on twisty windy mountain roads. 🙂
Actually, it is/was known as "Three on the tree." Reverse was not considered.
Actually, I drove a *four*-on-the-tree....not counting reverse. Yep, ***FOUR***.
It was a 1969 Ford Taunus, I bought it in 1984.
Three is the number thou shall shift...
DM was not plussed when she gave me one and only driving lesson. I, in a mysterious fashion, damaged the house (one of the walls shifted and we couldn't close the door anymore) but not the car.
I've been told my aunt's driving test was very memorable. For the examiner.
When they approached the first junction, she threw both arms into the air, lifted both feet up, and screamed.
The examiner stopped the car, refunded her bribe, and failed her on the spot.
Driving stopped being fun when I moved out of my parents' house.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Oh, that is just hilarious. And they got busted almost immediately after trying to flee. I hear the opening vamp of the "Dragnet" theme: "Dumb dumb dumb dumb..."
I don't know how to drive a manual transmission. I would be stuck too, if I tried to appropriate someone's car only to find a manual transmission.
They should have watched a YouTube video first. Lol.
I'm guessing the hate group Alliance Defending Freedumb/Fascism will take their case.
Maybe our ADF supporter will be here soon to tell us how religious freedumb is under attack.
Oh I hope so, it's possibly the only way they can lose with this Court. Hm, maybe that Mat Staver clown.
"Without the exemption, religious schools are subject to investigations, complaints, and large fines for offering instruction consistent with their sincerely held religious beliefs."
Is this even true? I may be getting the law wrong, but anti-discrimination laws are typically about access and equal treatment. They can still *offer instruction* that homosexuality is a sin, what the law says is that they have to accept LGBT+ student applicants and not send them to detention merely for being LGBTQ+. Offer your crappy instruction all you want. You just have to offer it to everyone.
***
In any event, the real solution here is to abolish voucher programs and put that money back into accessible public schools. I'm sure there are many good voucher schools, but the conservative push has always been just an extension of 1950s white flight and an attempt to do an end-run around education standards. Both of which are toxic goals, with the added toxicity of draining money from the public commonwealth. No such end runs should be allowed. Good fences make good neighbors; let private schools be private and public schools be public.
Who do they think they are kidding? Who is going to monitor these fools, the fools who send their kids there? I doubt it, they were brainwashed from the crib and now they are brainwashing their kids.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/03/27/desantis-signs-far-reaching-school-voucher-expansion-into-florida-law/
Of course he did.
So much winning, Trump.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-new-york-indictment-election-027d0e5ac1881a4c55c6379deae75faa?taid=64260232d0078700011ea2b3
It's been a LONG time coming, and I am damned glad to see that it is finally HERE ... and very likely, this is the first of at least two or three indictments Trump is facing.
Which bothers me NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST.
Well, I'll admit I've been sick of 'winning' for about 6.5 years now.
I love the name of Manhattan DA.
They want money? So sad that they have such little faith. They seem like the very people who keep assuring everybody (like, say, schoolchildren in Nashville) that "God will provide!"
god will provide applies only to the pew warmers. Churches run on cash, not gods.
"They also claim the law isn’t “generally applicable” (and therefore legal) since it applies to any school that accepts males and females—which means faith-based, single-sex schools that discriminate against LGBTQ people would be eligible for the tuition money."
For me that makes no sense at all.
Since WHEN did right-wing ideologisms EVER make sense?