I've long thought that the religulous are not playing with a full deck, it's why they stay on in spite of the obvious grift they have signed on to. If an employer came to me and told me I had to give him part of the money I earned, I would first tell them to pound salt and then file a complaint with my state labor dept.
I had a conversation yesterday with a very mice catholic lady who wants to reform the church of its thousand year old--at least-- pedo problem. She's sure ot can happen of only she jesuses harder.
I have to say, she seem to be a well intentioned, nice, and kind lady. I really didn't want to go on the attack, as much as I was tempted to. I did my best to explain to her that her blindness was what was enabling the church to continue on with the abuse.
Not just her blindness, but her (and others like her) unwillingness to confront the church about those abuses and hold them accountable to secular authorities. It is the unstated goal of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church to have their sΜΈhΜΈeΜΈeΜΈpΜΈ parishioners well ensconced in the "pray-pay-obey" school of thought, the better to keep them off their backs.
I Agree. As I said, I really didn't want to confront her too much. I recognize exactly the problem you were describing. I could only point it out to her.
There are loads of ways to do this legally. But they want to demonstrate than when they hold out the hand, their employees "voluntarily" fill it. So they chose to do it illegally instead.
The evangelical preachers can talk about their loving Jesus and the glorious after-life from now on, but there is nothing they crave so much as power and control in this world. Money is where is begins. That so many people willingly delegate their thinking to these churches does not fill me with hope for the future of our species.
"Joe Goods, told her in February of 2023 that heβd fallen under hard times in the past, too, but βhe chose to sell his houseβ instead of not tithing"
But it's a church. It's not a cult. Nope, not a cult.
As Iβve mentioned, my father was a Missouri Synod Lutheran minister. We were poor. Food stamp poor. Hand me down, yard sale, and Goodwill store clothes poor. Grow, preserve, raise, and butcher as much of your food as you can poor. I have no personal point of reference for these highly paid preachers. It looks like a scam. It sounds like a scam. How can anyone β by which I mean employees and congregants β think this is anything other than a scam.
As it happens, my career is in financial services. I once had a client whose father was an aging minister and wanted his son to switch careers and take over the church. His father owned the church building and the church paid rent. The church provided him with an untaxed housing allowance. His idea was that he would stay on as pastor emeritus and continue to derive the financial benefits while doing very little. The sonβs task would be to grow the membership and dad would gradually gift over to him ownership in the building.
At one point in my career, I inherited a dormant account from the local owner of Calvary Chapel. After months of phone calls and letters, I finally got a response from one of the minions: He had forgotten about the account ($100,000++) and would be transferring it.
I was an ordained Mainline Protestant pastor for 35 years. I had to claim the fair rental price on the parsonage as income. This pastor was cheating Uncle Sam. If they got a housing allowance , that was also taxable income.
Well, I am not a tax expert but the IRS says itβs excluded from taxable income but subject to payroll taxes. I think it depends if the salary is βfair compensationβ and the housing is extra or if the salary plus housing = fair compensation.
The real kicker was when itemizing was more common. A minister could get a tax free housing allowance, get a mortgage, and deduct the mortgage interest from his taxable income.
I am sure that sounds right. I never employed those loopholes. I was no mega church pastor, so much of my check went to FICA. I never went a year that I did not owe the IRS at the end of the year, big time!
O/T: I was raised on the other end of the Lutheran spectrum, ALC now AELC.
Missouri Lutherans thought we were heathens, refusing us Communion! We thought
OT: Neo-Nazi firebombs a church holding drag events. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that this guy sets off my gaydar at, like, 120db, I just have to ask what kind of "straight" (ahem) guy posts pics of himself in a men's room with urinals and a toilet behind him? https://www.wonkette.com/a-neo-nazi-upset-about-drag-queens-firebombed-a-church
Heard in a game show while the host was presenting a contestant "He is a harder" (slip of tongue the host meant a hard rock fan). I want to know more about the host browser history.
" ...Russell Wilson, who said tithing was a βblack and whiteβ issue more important than taking communion."
Ah, so when Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me" he was talking about coughing up a good chunk of your moolah to a minister. How could anyone have ever thought he meant communion?
A quick google reveals that Wilson signed a five year contract extension worth $245 million= $49 million/year (plus bonuses(. That means he must be giving the church at least $5 million/year. It's hard to see why they need their employees to give them still more. But I guess the way God does arithmetic is as mysterious as all his other ways.
The last part of the sentence makes me angry. Employees give 40 hours or more every week plus attend all the extra church activities and they want even more! When I worked for a bank, I was expected to 'volunteer' for all sorts of weekend community activities. No, Just NO! I get paid to work 40 hours and 60 is all you are going to get.
So ... it's not about faith. It's not about community or fellowship. It's not about charity or helping out those who are less fortunate.
It's about the π π’π‘ππ¬. Always has been. Always will be.
I've long thought that the religulous are not playing with a full deck, it's why they stay on in spite of the obvious grift they have signed on to. If an employer came to me and told me I had to give him part of the money I earned, I would first tell them to pound salt and then file a complaint with my state labor dept.
I had a conversation yesterday with a very mice catholic lady who wants to reform the church of its thousand year old--at least-- pedo problem. She's sure ot can happen of only she jesuses harder.
What color was her straitjacket?
I have to say, she seem to be a well intentioned, nice, and kind lady. I really didn't want to go on the attack, as much as I was tempted to. I did my best to explain to her that her blindness was what was enabling the church to continue on with the abuse.
Not just her blindness, but her (and others like her) unwillingness to confront the church about those abuses and hold them accountable to secular authorities. It is the unstated goal of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church to have their sΜΈhΜΈeΜΈeΜΈpΜΈ parishioners well ensconced in the "pray-pay-obey" school of thought, the better to keep them off their backs.
The second that model fails, the RCC is DONE.
I Agree. As I said, I really didn't want to confront her too much. I recognize exactly the problem you were describing. I could only point it out to her.
Just like it says in the Business Plan (also sometimes referred to as 'The Bible').
I'd say rather it's about power and dominance.
There are loads of ways to do this legally. But they want to demonstrate than when they hold out the hand, their employees "voluntarily" fill it. So they chose to do it illegally instead.
The evangelical preachers can talk about their loving Jesus and the glorious after-life from now on, but there is nothing they crave so much as power and control in this world. Money is where is begins. That so many people willingly delegate their thinking to these churches does not fill me with hope for the future of our species.
"Joe Goods, told her in February of 2023 that heβd fallen under hard times in the past, too, but βhe chose to sell his houseβ instead of not tithing"
But it's a church. It's not a cult. Nope, not a cult.
As Iβve mentioned, my father was a Missouri Synod Lutheran minister. We were poor. Food stamp poor. Hand me down, yard sale, and Goodwill store clothes poor. Grow, preserve, raise, and butcher as much of your food as you can poor. I have no personal point of reference for these highly paid preachers. It looks like a scam. It sounds like a scam. How can anyone β by which I mean employees and congregants β think this is anything other than a scam.
As it happens, my career is in financial services. I once had a client whose father was an aging minister and wanted his son to switch careers and take over the church. His father owned the church building and the church paid rent. The church provided him with an untaxed housing allowance. His idea was that he would stay on as pastor emeritus and continue to derive the financial benefits while doing very little. The sonβs task would be to grow the membership and dad would gradually gift over to him ownership in the building.
There was no discussion of theology.
A business like any other.
At one point in my career, I inherited a dormant account from the local owner of Calvary Chapel. After months of phone calls and letters, I finally got a response from one of the minions: He had forgotten about the account ($100,000++) and would be transferring it.
Pissed me off so much!
I was an ordained Mainline Protestant pastor for 35 years. I had to claim the fair rental price on the parsonage as income. This pastor was cheating Uncle Sam. If they got a housing allowance , that was also taxable income.
Well, I am not a tax expert but the IRS says itβs excluded from taxable income but subject to payroll taxes. I think it depends if the salary is βfair compensationβ and the housing is extra or if the salary plus housing = fair compensation.
The real kicker was when itemizing was more common. A minister could get a tax free housing allowance, get a mortgage, and deduct the mortgage interest from his taxable income.
https://www.irs.gov/faqs/interest-dividends-other-types-of-income/ministers-compensation-housing-allowance/ministers-compensation-housing-allowance
I am sure that sounds right. I never employed those loopholes. I was no mega church pastor, so much of my check went to FICA. I never went a year that I did not owe the IRS at the end of the year, big time!
O/T: I was raised on the other end of the Lutheran spectrum, ALC now AELC.
Missouri Lutherans thought we were heathens, refusing us Communion! We thought
Missouri Lutherans were fanatics.
They still are!
Their eternal salvation depends on it not being a scam.
And you know what depends are full of ?
The fact that their π€π©πΆπ³π€π© has a πππ wasn't enough of a tip-off that they were getting scammed?
βhe chose to sell his houseβ
Yeah riiiight. Guarantee if he was high enough up in the hierarchy he didn't. Only the peasants have to do shit like this.
He did, he just bought a bigger one to show off his god favor.
OT: Neo-Nazi firebombs a church holding drag events. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that this guy sets off my gaydar at, like, 120db, I just have to ask what kind of "straight" (ahem) guy posts pics of himself in a men's room with urinals and a toilet behind him? https://www.wonkette.com/a-neo-nazi-upset-about-drag-queens-firebombed-a-church
"I assume the Neonazi was trans as it was widely reported they are doing all the terrorism."
Hilarious comment. Worthy of a Brit type sarcasm.
His screen name is Dick Craver.
Bet he's looking at a selfie of him pleasuring a guy through a glory hole.
That's easy. He's the kind of straight man that says "Christ was I drunk last night. I don't remember a thing that happened."
OT
Since it's April Fool's Day...
"Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me."
-- Robert Frost
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum. βThomas Paine
Loves me some Paine.
Masochist, eh?
Yes! OH YES!!
Harder! Harder!
I'm a baaaaad atheist!
https://i.redd.it/ilicteuuxtda1.jpg
Heard in a game show while the host was presenting a contestant "He is a harder" (slip of tongue the host meant a hard rock fan). I want to know more about the host browser history.
https://i.redd.it/xk4b9cz6fcw31.png
Why doesn't God heal his messenger's twisted feet?
Out-of-network provider.
Mysterious ways.
How does he get in his god's temple with those feet? The omnipotent YHVH is all oogy about "deformities."
" ...Russell Wilson, who said tithing was a βblack and whiteβ issue more important than taking communion."
Ah, so when Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me" he was talking about coughing up a good chunk of your moolah to a minister. How could anyone have ever thought he meant communion?
A quick google reveals that Wilson signed a five year contract extension worth $245 million= $49 million/year (plus bonuses(. That means he must be giving the church at least $5 million/year. It's hard to see why they need their employees to give them still more. But I guess the way God does arithmetic is as mysterious as all his other ways.
No, you see tithing is an inverse proportion, the more money you have the less of it you have to tithe, so at 50M a year, 500k is generous.
Commi$$ion, not communion.
http://i.imgur.com/26Tby.jpg
The "flock' is always getting fleeced. Rubes.
OT
Don't mean to step on Zorg's toes, but USA Today put up an article with the title of:
"Gun owners get right to carry without a permit in Florida --- but not where lawmakers meet."
Quelle surprise.
The NRA is fussy about where you can carry in their headquarters AFAIK, and they often choose gun free places for their conventions.
You no longer need a permit for concealed carry; you still can get one if you want to, but open carry is still illegal.
Bout time you caught up to Iowa. /s
Iowa allows open carry even for the feeble-minded.
Now, now, be nice to repukelicans.
Why? They certainly aren't nice to anyone else (Oh, they play nice if you give them money and/or power, but that's not the same thing)
For those with diarrhea, be advised that this is the tithe that binds. It really does keep you full of shit.
The last part of the sentence makes me angry. Employees give 40 hours or more every week plus attend all the extra church activities and they want even more! When I worked for a bank, I was expected to 'volunteer' for all sorts of weekend community activities. No, Just NO! I get paid to work 40 hours and 60 is all you are going to get.
I get paid to work 40 hours and 40 hours is all they get. Call me on my lunch break and I will take it in goofing off time later.
I wonder if the leaders and the CEO abide by the same rule.
Hahahahahaha, you're funny, hahahaha.
No, of course they do. Of course they also get paid at least 10 percent ABOVE the market average.
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