325 Comments
Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

If guns aren't the problem and people are, why are we giving guns to the problem?

On a more serious note, it seems to me that the problem with gun violence is the fear and hate so prevalent among the groups that are the most likely to stockpile weapons.

Most of what they listed as problems contributing to gun violence are legitimate concerns, and should be addressed. However, "lack of faith and eroding of family values" is just a dog whistle saying that it's all the fault of atheists and gays.

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They give guns to the problem because they like guns. Whether or not that action actually solves the problem is irrelevant to them.

It's rather like the bit about: "To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

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Or, for me: "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb."

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Why shouldn't they use dog whistles? The electorate they're pandering to have the mentality of rabid dogs.

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You know what the REAL problem is? It's this thing that they say we need more of: faith!

Religion per se isn’t a problem. Left to itself, it’d just be a hobby, like collecting stamps, going bowling, or reading Harry Potter. No, religion is just a symptom of the real, underlying problem, namely FAITH — the mindset that deludes people into thinking that they can somehow or other “know” things without a shred of supporting evidence, and frequently in the face of considerable evidence to the contrary. Faith gives us not only religion but also homeopathy, astrology, objectivism, ufology, conspiracy theories, climate-change denial, false accusations of ritual satanic child abuse, numerology, anti-vax movements, a host of superstitions, personality cults, dowsing, jingoism, imperialism, racism, psi phenomena, quackery, Chinese traditional “medicine”, feng shui, and the insidious brain parasite that leads people to endlessly obsess over anyone named Kardashian.

Faith is humanity’s all-time, blue-ribbon, gold-medal, undisputed, undefeated, heavyweight world-champion worst method EVER of making decisions! Nobody ever uses faith for anything that can be tested or measured or that really matters in real life.

The priest class, needless to say, praises faith to the skies, because their paychecks depend on suckers continuing to fall for it. Religious believers are the victims in a huge, accurately named confidence game.

Don’t believe me? Test it for yourself. The difference between education and indoctrination is whether the person at the front of the room welcomes questions from the audience. Try it the next time your minister is in the middle of a sermon.

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I know of no example of humanity ever bettering itself by abandoning reason. No civilization ever collapsed from being too reasonable.

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Sam Harris said something like that a while back. He wasn't wrong, either.

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BRAVISSIMO!!! They hate questions. Called the local kkkatlik diocese asking if pius actually was afraid the not sees would destroy his vatican or if he actually blessed the genocide against Jews? Call your local priest and ask. Remember, *67 blocks them from seeing your number. 8^)

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Ask about the Reichskonkordat!

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Bravo!

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

Faith has it's place.

We could do with a bit more faith that the black kid knocking on your front door is probably just asking for directions, and not a threat.

Part of the toxic nature of right wing conservativism is that it directly attacks and undermines our faith that our fellow citizens are simply good reasonable people like us going about their days. It undermines social trust.

And you can see that in Reyn below, who has drunk the kool-aid and is convinced that things are worse now than they have ever been.

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“Reyn”

I started at the top of the comments. I take it we have a RWNJ below? Oh boy!

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Oh, it gets good the longer the conversation goes on.

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You have a strange definition of 'good'.

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Jul 12, 2023·edited Jul 12, 2023

My snarky way of saying "revealing." Revealing one poster's mindset and the regular community's reactions to that mindset.

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I distinguish between faith (no evidence whatsoever) vs. trust (in people) or confidence (in things), both of which have an established track record that serves as a foundation for your belief.

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Oh my Ceiling Cat, that would cause heads to explode!

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If having faith gives people comfort, what's wrong with that?™

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The twin towers were brought down in the name of faith. The bloody, gory, history of Europe is to no small extent the story of faith in action. Europe is also the great example of the failure of faith as Christian nations slaughtered one another by the tens of thousands in the two world wars. When people convince themselves they're operating under divine sanction, they're capable of any horror.

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Seems to me that it's gun-toting xtians who are showing a lack of faith in their god...their rock, sword and shield...to protect them.

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Maybe that's why more faith would stop gun violence. If they had enough faith to really protect them, they would give up their guns, right?

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That is being said facetiously, right?

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It is indeed snark.

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If faith helps curb violence, would it not be logical that the Bible Belt would be the safest region in the country? And yet look at the top five states for murder:

Louisiana

Missouri

S. Carolina

Arkansas

Tennessee

Not a blue state in the mix.

Now if I were not concerned about causation/correlation, I might think that fervent faith caused violence

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But but but, if democrats stopped shooting people 90% of gun violence would be gone.

Seriously, this is a meme going round in right wing circles. It’s implying that black people are all democrats and responsible for 90% of gun violence. And yet, as you stated, the violence is coming from red states. They’re working on the assumptions of big cities are the most violent, Chicago being the capital of violence in the USA, but that information is outdated by decades and caused by the war on drugs and other right wing policies. Mass shootings are more and more common and more and more perpetuated by disaffected white dudes.

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

Talking heads on the right also like to cite crime statistics in 𝘳𝘢𝘸 𝘯𝘶𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘴 of crimes, rather than citing crime 𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘴- which tends to skew perception of which cities are actually more dangerous to live in. The cities most often cited by the GQP's propaganda arm as cesspits of murder, rape, and robbery happen to also be the 𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘴𝘵 cities- by a huge margin. Look at the crime 𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘴, however, and red cities leap right to the top of the chart; they're smaller by population size, but their populations commit more crimes per capita.

A similar trick is used to claim that red rural areas have lower murder rates than blue cities do... well, yes, cities have higher 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘯 homicide rates- but rural areas tend to have a great many more 𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘴 cases that go unsolved. Turns out it's harder to prove that a person is dead, let alone that they were murdered, when the killer has hundreds of acres of forest, swamp, or desert to hide the body in and all the time in the world to do it before the long arm of the law shows up (if they ever do). Who'da thunk it, right?

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And sometimes it could easily be the long arm of the law that perpetuated the crime.

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

♫♪ 𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬 𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘤𝘦𝘴...

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Residents from blue states/counties came into red's to commit their murders.

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And they all crept out of Hunter Biden's laptop.

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Hiding inside Hillary's emails?

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I know it's not quite the right cue, but I love this one:

https://www.zentaur.org/memes/buttery_males.jpg

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Yes, yes, we know, you'll be in your bunk. 😉

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Highest divorce rate in the county? The bible belt.

Highest consumption of porn in the country (especially gay porn)? The bible belt.

Something is seriously amiss in that religion.

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Not enough bibles! Oh wait...

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

The same people who claim to be pro-life are also rabidly pro-gun.

Do they simply not see the dichotomy?

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People like this can't deal with a word like "dichotomy," because it's too complex for most of them. They are pro-gun because they like guns, full stop. They are pro-life because the men who believe it know it puts them in unquestioned charge of their women, and the women who believe it have been taught to go along.

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And maybe the women who go along with it are afraid not to.

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Wouldn't surprise me. In fact, some of them are likely so indoctrinated that they're scared out of their wits about that. Some others the same, and conflicted because they KNOW something's wrong with this model.

I really feel for them, partly because I was much the same way, though for other reasons, and I hope they can learn to break free.

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Talk is cheap. Howabout you put a bunch of money towards free needle exchange and drug treatment programs, free mental health treatment, create free preschool and double your budget for elementary and secondary education (with most of it going to underserved parts of the district). If you do that, I'll gladly support your statement about faith. I'll even HAVE more faith - in the district doing the right thing.

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mike pence did that in Indiana while supposedly guv. His actions proved its insanity.

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Throughout history one constant remains; violence happens. When Jesus supposedly roamed the earth (well, a very small portion of it), he was not able to suddenly stop violence. After he was nailed to the cross (again, supposedly) THAT did not stop violence from happening. Instead, that peace loving hippy became a martyr and people started to wear a symbol of his execution around their necks. Over the next couple of millennia, many wars were fought over whether or not he was a man, a prophet, a messiah or the Son of God.

Modern day Maga Christians are just following the path their religion has taken away from the teachings of Jesus and into the teachings of violence. They know they are not going to curb violence. What they want is to be the ones that deal it out. They stay awake at night hoping that someone breaks into their homes so they can prove they are men and 'stand their ground'. Taking away their guns would castrate them. Putting a little prayer into their little resolution makes them the good guys, at least in their eyes.

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Jesus also committed acts of violence. Those moneylenders' tables didn't overturn themselves.

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And he used a whip to drive away the moneylenders themselves.

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How convenient to attribute an increase in violence to a factor that no one can either measure nor verify, never mind be able to evaluate any change, positive or negative, resulting from an increase or decrease in that factor. "A lack of faith" amounts to yet more hand-waving on the part of people who have elevated their need to own and use guns above the ordinary citizen's right to live, free of fear of guns and the violence which is inextricably connected to them.

And of course, lack of faith or the presence of faith is much like prayer. One can profess faith as a supposed "cure," and in so doing appear as though s/he is doing something while accomplishing absolutely 𝗡𝗢𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗡𝗚.

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

The only thing prayer does is make the person praying feel good, allowing them to think they are doing something when it really is nothing.

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Agreed. And I don’t have a problem with them praying just to feel good. If only they stopped there.

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Ayuh, just another way for them to masturbate.

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"a factor that no one can either measure nor verify"

I brought out my mustard seeds for comparison.

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I am surprised they didn't blame mass shooting on video games, rap and metal music.

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I was recently in France. On my last day, one of our Uber drivers was listening to some fire and brimstone preacher tirade about the hellish damnation of rock 'n roll and weed. In French. Which I don't understand too well, but well enough that between my limited vocabulary and the repetitive cadence of the sermon, I knew exactly what the radio voice was talking about.

It actually brought a smile to my face. It was like someone turning on the Oldies station. :)

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Next time go for G7 taxi company. They are reliable and no preaching in any way.

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I didn't mind. A preacher talking about how listening to rock music will send you to hell is almost laughably retro.

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Or the godless Democrats. Well, they did blame the godless so I guess they consider the Democrats are implied.

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Satire of religion? Or threat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCSWEgZT94

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The reality is Violence causes video games, rap, and metal

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Bet xtians really hate these guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abamRO41fE

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What an interesting theory... every time I don't pray to sky daddy it causes some gun nut to prey on some daddy's kids.

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"An angel gets its wings" is the preferred terminology.

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Angels are almost as bad as the demons.... I been playing a lot of Diablo IV (;

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LOLOLOLOL etc.

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I thought that was "every time a bell rings?"

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As if I needed another reason to hate that movie.

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

If lack of religion is the problem, how come so many shooters are religious and so many of the victims are churchgoers? I know someone\s probably already said this while I was asleep but it probably bears repeating.

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They just weren't religious enough, that's all. It's because they need more religion that people send them thoughts and prayers. Well, as few actual "thoughts" as possible, but scads of prayers.

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Believers don't do logic.

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Magic doesn't solve anything.

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It solves the straight spoon problem.

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Spoon conversion therapy?

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That was a problem? Talk about First World Problems.

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There is no spoon.

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That's no spoon...

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Is that a spoon in your pocket......

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Or, if you're a Republican, Is that a butter knife...

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There is no spoon but Spork, and Runcible is his prophet.

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*hand gesture*

These are not the spoons you're looking for.

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But those are the droids I'm looking for. Hands Up old man.

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NoGodz could post videos in our last days on Patheos and virtually no one else could. What do you call that? :)

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Having read / write privileges where others might not! 😁

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Bribery. 😉

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If you'd told me that then they could have made a little more money.

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Q: What was the name of the card game subtitled "The Gathering" that people wasted a ton of money on?

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Crack on a card.

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my kindle waz apparently done in by kkkristers and their "loving" gods.

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"WHEREAS, this revelation of vulnerability has created a call for action. This Oconto County Board of Supervisors join the Sheriff and feel now is the time to discuss violence in its totality, not simply as an issue of gun violence. Violence is a result of a breakdown on many fronts. The lack of faith, the eroding of family values..."

So what was your excuse when Christianity was much more culturally prominent, everyone went to church, and women were forced to marry and stay in marriages for lack of options?

Why were good church folks engaging in lynchings, racial pogroms, violent crime, and such back then?

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OT : dis-moi pas que c"est pas vrai ! It seems it's dehydration and hypoglycemia this time. Waiting for the EMTs..

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Sorry to hear.

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sEEN ON wgn nEWS, mEDICAL wATCH SEGMENT. cHEMO LEADS TO WEIGHT GAIN AFTER FINISHING BECAUSE GUT Bacteria are altered in chemo.

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Did anyone else catch the implication that they want guns in schools?

"in our educational system" implies they want gun "safety" taught in schools which would require time for visiting shooting ranges.

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I say we demand that xtian ammosexuals ask the residents of Parkland FL how "good guy with a gun" went.

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Oh, it went JUST FINE, thankuverymuch. The man who was EXPECTED to go INTO the school to confront the shooter did his best Monty Python and the Holy Grail number ["run away, run away!]. AND he was found not guilty for his cowardice.

And I'm making myself sick typing that.

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What a shitshow that was. It was sickening watching the Coward from Broward do a victory lap and proclaiming he got his life back. Too bad the people he failed can't claim the same.

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I shudder to think what would have happened to me if my Marianist principal had been packing heat when I told him two of his brothers in Christ had raped me. I'm sure he would have gone for the simplest way to eliminate the "troublemaker."

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Jul 11, 2023·edited Jul 11, 2023

When I was in high school, the JAROTC program was raising money to build a shooting range on campus for their rifle team. They started construction, but I don't remember if it was finished.

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JROTC. Yes let's teach children to be more efficient killers. It's not like they're still figuring out healthy ways to deal with their emotions, at a time in their lives when nearly all their peers are judgemental and cruel to those who are different.

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