Check me on this, but this isn't just a State / Church issue, but a FREE SPEECH ISSUE. If Mike Turner wants to disallow communications with the MRFF, that is pretty obviously impeding the free speech of anyone in the military, never mind making life harder and less workable for any non-Christian in the armed services.
And I am SO GLAD that Mike Weinstein has gotten his paws on this ... 'cuz he'll make Turner wish he'd never opened his mouth!
The people who would break down the barriers between church and state, seem to share the delusion it will be their particular tribe calling the shots for everyone else. What they should be imagining is the tribe they dislike most having control over their lives, as that will definitely be someone's reality. If you want to see what genuine persecution looks like, . . . hand power to the preachers.
Seems to me that if push comes to shove, the MRFF can just change the group's name. I realize that would likely be a last resort for good reason, but considering just how petty this law would be there comes a point where something has to give.
Mr. Turner strikes me as something of a schoolyard bully here; he honestly seems to think that everyone else needs to play by the rules in his head but those very same rules just don't apply to him. The US military does not belong to any one religious faith for very good reasons and attempting to 'fix' that by writing poorly considered legislation won't change it.
Every day we have to explain that religious freedom does not mean slapping Christian imagery all over government facilities. If anything that is the opposite of religious freedom, as it promotes only one religion being acceptable for our government. Which is the very first thing our bill of rights protects us from, establishing a state religion.
Go further to remember that the military enforces government will at gunpoint, meaning forcing religion at gunpoint onto the population of the country. The excuse that it’s just congress that can’t create a state sponsored religion so the states can do it just doesn’t fly when we’re talking about the armed forces. Even the National Guard is part and parcel of the federal government despite being mostly funded and controlled by each state. You cannot separate them, they’re trained by, funded through, and part of the federal government (their commander in chief is still the president and the chain of command continues through the federal generals, it does not stop at the state level.).
Again I ask, how is demanding one religion be highlighted on everything no matter who is present, who you’re honoring, what is happening? It is neutral to not include secularism, it is not neutral to just default to the majority religion.
I was in until around the Gulf war. I remember how the US was accused of propagating a "holy war" in the middle east. Turning the US military into a Christian fighting force WILL give people the right to declare that any time we move our troops. In the eyes of the civilized world, we will be no different than the Taliban.
Atheists have been serving in the American military since Valley Forge. Not only that (get ready to clutch your heart), so have gay men. Christians do not own the US military. Fuck you.
If I were still in the Army, this would crisp my bacon. And I guarantee, I would talk to anyone I wanted to, including this group. They weren't around in the 70s, but my Baphomet poster got rid of one potential room mate with bible thumping tendencies.
Of course Turner's trying to hide this unconstitutional piece of crap. What Christians can't openly bully through, they endeavor to do by engaging in skullduggery.
Oh, and what a surprise. Turner never put on the uniform and served his country. His father did, but not him. Did he have other priorities like Dick Cheney?
Regarding the Fallen Comrade Table setup, I much prefer it without a Bible. I'd be fine with a blank book, representing all faith perspectives including 'none'.
Ah yes, those mean, meanie, bullies demanding everyone be treated equally! How dare they! Doesn’t Mikey know that without their privileges that Christians vanish in a puff of illogic? Plus I heard he’s one of -those- people. You know what I mean.
…
…
… bald. Bald people. Look, it’s just as relevant as his Jewish last name is. 😏
Check me on this, but this isn't just a State / Church issue, but a FREE SPEECH ISSUE. If Mike Turner wants to disallow communications with the MRFF, that is pretty obviously impeding the free speech of anyone in the military, never mind making life harder and less workable for any non-Christian in the armed services.
And I am SO GLAD that Mike Weinstein has gotten his paws on this ... 'cuz he'll make Turner wish he'd never opened his mouth!
The people who would break down the barriers between church and state, seem to share the delusion it will be their particular tribe calling the shots for everyone else. What they should be imagining is the tribe they dislike most having control over their lives, as that will definitely be someone's reality. If you want to see what genuine persecution looks like, . . . hand power to the preachers.
Seems to me that if push comes to shove, the MRFF can just change the group's name. I realize that would likely be a last resort for good reason, but considering just how petty this law would be there comes a point where something has to give.
Mr. Turner strikes me as something of a schoolyard bully here; he honestly seems to think that everyone else needs to play by the rules in his head but those very same rules just don't apply to him. The US military does not belong to any one religious faith for very good reasons and attempting to 'fix' that by writing poorly considered legislation won't change it.
Every day we have to explain that religious freedom does not mean slapping Christian imagery all over government facilities. If anything that is the opposite of religious freedom, as it promotes only one religion being acceptable for our government. Which is the very first thing our bill of rights protects us from, establishing a state religion.
Go further to remember that the military enforces government will at gunpoint, meaning forcing religion at gunpoint onto the population of the country. The excuse that it’s just congress that can’t create a state sponsored religion so the states can do it just doesn’t fly when we’re talking about the armed forces. Even the National Guard is part and parcel of the federal government despite being mostly funded and controlled by each state. You cannot separate them, they’re trained by, funded through, and part of the federal government (their commander in chief is still the president and the chain of command continues through the federal generals, it does not stop at the state level.).
Again I ask, how is demanding one religion be highlighted on everything no matter who is present, who you’re honoring, what is happening? It is neutral to not include secularism, it is not neutral to just default to the majority religion.
I was in until around the Gulf war. I remember how the US was accused of propagating a "holy war" in the middle east. Turning the US military into a Christian fighting force WILL give people the right to declare that any time we move our troops. In the eyes of the civilized world, we will be no different than the Taliban.
Hey, Turner...
Atheists have been serving in the American military since Valley Forge. Not only that (get ready to clutch your heart), so have gay men. Christians do not own the US military. Fuck you.
If I were still in the Army, this would crisp my bacon. And I guarantee, I would talk to anyone I wanted to, including this group. They weren't around in the 70s, but my Baphomet poster got rid of one potential room mate with bible thumping tendencies.
Of course Turner's trying to hide this unconstitutional piece of crap. What Christians can't openly bully through, they endeavor to do by engaging in skullduggery.
Oh, and what a surprise. Turner never put on the uniform and served his country. His father did, but not him. Did he have other priorities like Dick Cheney?
If the amendment had any merit they wouldn't need to sneak it into another bill.
GQP: "Cancel culture!!! Oh wait, this is us doing it. In that case, it's all right."
Regarding the Fallen Comrade Table setup, I much prefer it without a Bible. I'd be fine with a blank book, representing all faith perspectives including 'none'.
Ah yes, those mean, meanie, bullies demanding everyone be treated equally! How dare they! Doesn’t Mikey know that without their privileges that Christians vanish in a puff of illogic? Plus I heard he’s one of -those- people. You know what I mean.
…
…
… bald. Bald people. Look, it’s just as relevant as his Jewish last name is. 😏
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356631445_1448347559284935_2427310586767086420_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&cb=99be929b-59f725be&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=a8SwjMiZF8EAX-hSMqF&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBLGHjjiTjP-HN3Frwe7NrkDfvXOcpY8xJlokSOcTSqPQ&oe=649FB71F
As a veteran, I approve of the tactics, intensity, and vulgarity. This state of affairs has existed for far too long.
So….not even pretending anymore that they aren’t fascist.
(I’m late to the discussion and haven’t read the comments so I’m almost certainly not the first to make this observation.)
Why izzis? https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356667210_6551752834904966_7695268222148928261_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&cb=99be929b-59f725be&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4w3ezdYO6IwAX-lVpt7&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCAeoo3VsSqkLBAkg-8fv0-98V2CHH0PhYBAeXhMd7ozA&oe=649F8227