This fool should be held personally liable for the legal costs of defending his ruling, because there is no way he gets this past the courts. At least you’d hope so, but who knows these days. This country enjoys as much religious freedom as can be found on earth, and I don’t know why that isn’t enough for some people. They keep demanding government backstop their religion in spite of the fact the Constitution forbids it.
I've wanted asses like Uthmeier and Walters of Oklahoma and too many others like them to bear the costs of litigation personally for a while, but for what I've seen, it'll never happen. They'll pawn the penalties and court costs onto the state and walk away like it never happened.
Do we really have more religious freedom here? Doesn’t feel like it. These fools just want to practice segregation in their so-called Christian schools and not face any consequences for it.
The short answer is: No, we DON'T. We have Christian Privilege™ all but ensconced in law in too many places, local, state, and federal, and all manner of people wanting to take it further and scrap the Constitution altogether and replace it with Christian Theocracy.
And if I sound especially pissed today, it's because I just watched a brilliantly updated retelling of the story of Tartuffe at the Outcalt Theater in Cleveland's Playhouse Square, and watching the process of the title character pulling his scam on an unsuspecting patrician while his family looks on aghast had my blood boiling after a fashion it hasn't in a while. Predatory Christianity has poisoned my homeland in a way that should terrify anyone who cares about freedom and rights. Whether it's Tartuffe or Trump, they want to strip all of it away so that they get to play in their playground while we get to clean up after them.
Amen. I also understand that we are a very large and very diverse country, so comparisons to elsewhere are at best messy. Hopefully this disaster we find ourselves in is the spark to bring about real change.
Change. Damned near every election I've seen for at least the past 20 years and likely longer has been about 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗚𝗘. The problem continues to be that there is no inertia quite like social inertia, and the US is full of it. I've forgotten how many millions of people COULD have voted in the 2024 election and didn't, more than likely giving us Donald Trump again in the bargain. Too many people follow the mold described by fictional newsman Howard Beale when they say, "Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone." There is WAY too much apathy and flat-out LAZINESS in this country for it to survive much longer if enough people opt to avoid the unpleasantness of INVOLVEMENT.
Obviously, we don't avoid it, but I wonder if we and those like us are enough. Sorry for the rant. Tartuffe got my dander up.
Are you sure about that, Uthmeier? If that were so, then the government could encourage The Satanic Temple. The government could encourage Islam. Or do you think the official position of the government, from federal down to township, should be that only Christianity counts as religion?
"An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation”
Yes, it appears that that is your position. How, exactly, is the government to elevate Christianity above all other religions without establishing it?
Also, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of who the Establishment Clause applies to. It does not only apply to the federal government, but to all levels of government. That was codified by the 14th amendment, but it was a principle even before that. And the First Amendment's religion clauses served to clarify the rights of the people and the restrictions on the government already set forth in Article VI. "No religious test" means no religion required, no religion preferred, and no religion prohibited. Not just sects of Christianity.
It is a short step from the government encouraging Christianity to requiring Christianity, and from there, it isn't too far to mandate one particular sect. Do you want the Troubles? This is how you get the Troubles.
"When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, 'tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
-- Benjamin Franklin, in a letter to the Christian Dr. Richard Price, dated October 9th 1780
As if these jesusfuckers actually read a real history book, I sure most of these Christian fascists got their history from David Barton’s crappy books!
That will work until a non Christian group want taxpayers dollars to fund their school, then it will become an enforced constitutional ban. The jesusfuckers will then drop the taxpayers funding for all religious schools!
Once again, we're told that the infinite, omnipotent god of the universe, creator of heaven and Earth and all they contain who fashioned them with a word, the god who hung the Pleiades and fashioned Orion's belt, who parted seas, and stopped the rotation of the Earth... needs Caesar to extort money from people and give it to Him.
OT: I had allotted 2 days for the Grand Canyon. Turns out 1 was enough. 5 hours of staring at its awesomeness suffices. Today we made plans to visit a town 50 miles away that still has an active stretch of Route 66 and a museum dedicated to dinosaur poop. The Pooseum.
You can really only look for so long if you're not hiking or camping in the area. I'm not sure where you are, but I really liked the watchtower near the east entrance (I think, it's been several years).
Sooooooo, how do you choose to “encourage” one religion over all others without de facto establishing an official religion? Hmmmmmmm?
The founders did not actually want to encourage any religion, and if you read even the most basic papers by them you could see that. But we are working with the Liar David Barton’s lackeys. If the founders wanted to encourage Christianity, then why didn’t they use the words, Christianity, God, Jesus or Holy Ghost in any of our governmental documents? The constitution would be rife with christianese. But it isn’t. It clearly defines a separation from Christianity and other religions, with any mention of religion being a proscription against encouraging it as a governmental policy.
This isn’t broken brain thinking, this is straight up corruption making a concerted effort to break the rules. It is intentionally flawed logic, not a confusion.
I understand the argument that that 1A applied to the federal government and not the states when it was adopted. But at some point SCOTUS decided that individual people were entitled to protection from the imposition of government religion no matter which state they lived in and no matter which level of government was involved. And the 14th (?) amendment is the reason.
Do I have that right?
Are these folk attempting to get SCOTUS to overturn that interpretation?
They have had a mad on about the 14th amendment since it passed , always looking for that one thing that will erase it and let them go back to when only white christain males have any rights.
What a surprise - a white male from Florida has a hard-on for the sanctification of "the Framers." Facebook taught him everything he knows about the Founding Fathers, which of course, makes him an irrefutable academic. Just ask him.
Urethrameier only proves that the 7 key founders were right to keep church and state separate; that religion should have no place at the table of governance.
Want taxpayer $$$, Jim-Jim? Then pay your taxes like Romans 13:6-7 tells its followers to do (and why). Won't do that? Then pray for what you want just as your Jesus told you to do. You do trust your deities, don't you?
Another christain loudly braying the the rules don't apply to them. The only solution is the one that most need to accept. That these lunatics need to be banished from any iota of control over society period. The death cult must die for everyone else to live.
This fool should be held personally liable for the legal costs of defending his ruling, because there is no way he gets this past the courts. At least you’d hope so, but who knows these days. This country enjoys as much religious freedom as can be found on earth, and I don’t know why that isn’t enough for some people. They keep demanding government backstop their religion in spite of the fact the Constitution forbids it.
I've wanted asses like Uthmeier and Walters of Oklahoma and too many others like them to bear the costs of litigation personally for a while, but for what I've seen, it'll never happen. They'll pawn the penalties and court costs onto the state and walk away like it never happened.
That SO needs to change!
Do we really have more religious freedom here? Doesn’t feel like it. These fools just want to practice segregation in their so-called Christian schools and not face any consequences for it.
The short answer is: No, we DON'T. We have Christian Privilege™ all but ensconced in law in too many places, local, state, and federal, and all manner of people wanting to take it further and scrap the Constitution altogether and replace it with Christian Theocracy.
And if I sound especially pissed today, it's because I just watched a brilliantly updated retelling of the story of Tartuffe at the Outcalt Theater in Cleveland's Playhouse Square, and watching the process of the title character pulling his scam on an unsuspecting patrician while his family looks on aghast had my blood boiling after a fashion it hasn't in a while. Predatory Christianity has poisoned my homeland in a way that should terrify anyone who cares about freedom and rights. Whether it's Tartuffe or Trump, they want to strip all of it away so that they get to play in their playground while we get to clean up after them.
THIS. HAS. GOT. TO. 𝗦𝗧𝗢𝗣.
Amen. I also understand that we are a very large and very diverse country, so comparisons to elsewhere are at best messy. Hopefully this disaster we find ourselves in is the spark to bring about real change.
Change. Damned near every election I've seen for at least the past 20 years and likely longer has been about 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗚𝗘. The problem continues to be that there is no inertia quite like social inertia, and the US is full of it. I've forgotten how many millions of people COULD have voted in the 2024 election and didn't, more than likely giving us Donald Trump again in the bargain. Too many people follow the mold described by fictional newsman Howard Beale when they say, "Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone." There is WAY too much apathy and flat-out LAZINESS in this country for it to survive much longer if enough people opt to avoid the unpleasantness of INVOLVEMENT.
Obviously, we don't avoid it, but I wonder if we and those like us are enough. Sorry for the rant. Tartuffe got my dander up.
I don't want change, I want real currency.
Fine, as long as you don't want pennies! 🤪
It’s not enough for some people because it’s not enough money for some people.
And what little there is should only go to their tribe.
𝐸𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑠ℎ𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑚𝑒, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑛𝑜 𝐹𝑟𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑟 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑓𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑤𝑜. 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐹𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑝𝑟𝑜ℎ𝑖𝑏𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑚𝑒𝑟 (𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑒𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑙𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑙), 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟.
Are you sure about that, Uthmeier? If that were so, then the government could encourage The Satanic Temple. The government could encourage Islam. Or do you think the official position of the government, from federal down to township, should be that only Christianity counts as religion?
"An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation”
Yes, it appears that that is your position. How, exactly, is the government to elevate Christianity above all other religions without establishing it?
Also, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of who the Establishment Clause applies to. It does not only apply to the federal government, but to all levels of government. That was codified by the 14th amendment, but it was a principle even before that. And the First Amendment's religion clauses served to clarify the rights of the people and the restrictions on the government already set forth in Article VI. "No religious test" means no religion required, no religion preferred, and no religion prohibited. Not just sects of Christianity.
It is a short step from the government encouraging Christianity to requiring Christianity, and from there, it isn't too far to mandate one particular sect. Do you want the Troubles? This is how you get the Troubles.
Once again...
"When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, 'tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
-- Benjamin Franklin, in a letter to the Christian Dr. Richard Price, dated October 9th 1780
As if these jesusfuckers actually read a real history book, I sure most of these Christian fascists got their history from David Barton’s crappy books!
That will work until a non Christian group want taxpayers dollars to fund their school, then it will become an enforced constitutional ban. The jesusfuckers will then drop the taxpayers funding for all religious schools!
First, Uthmeier seems to be conflating religion and good morals which is what we expect from Christians who don't believe anyone counts but them.
Second, the logical conclusion of his argument is that church's should pay taxes. To not do so is unconstitutional.
Once again, we're told that the infinite, omnipotent god of the universe, creator of heaven and Earth and all they contain who fashioned them with a word, the god who hung the Pleiades and fashioned Orion's belt, who parted seas, and stopped the rotation of the Earth... needs Caesar to extort money from people and give it to Him.
(In William Shatner’s voice): “What does God need with money?”
To fuel up his spaceship, of course.
Star Trek V? One of the most appalling wastes of money, time and actors ever committed to celluloid? The sentiment remains true, despite all that.
And how dare Kirk seek proof that this being calling itself God actually is what he claims to be. Turned out to be another charlatan. Thus is it ever.
No, I think Star Trek: The motion picture was worst, it didn’t really have a plot or really anything for character development!
I thoroughly enjoyed the first one. I was ticked off with the 6th one (Vulcan mind rape? Seriously?).
It has helped me find my keys too!
Hey, Jimbo...
Read your bible. Romans 13:1-5 EXPLICITLY tells followers to obey all secular laws and authorities.
OT: I had allotted 2 days for the Grand Canyon. Turns out 1 was enough. 5 hours of staring at its awesomeness suffices. Today we made plans to visit a town 50 miles away that still has an active stretch of Route 66 and a museum dedicated to dinosaur poop. The Pooseum.
Idk, I've heard the Pooseum is pretty shitty.
Whoever said that is full of crap.
You can really only look for so long if you're not hiking or camping in the area. I'm not sure where you are, but I really liked the watchtower near the east entrance (I think, it's been several years).
Shit! The Pooseum is closed today.
Their sign says they are #1 for #2. And the sign in the window says they have the world's largest copralite.
I thought that was in the White House?
Meanwhile, 1000 miles east on I 40 the azaleas, dogwoods, and redbuds look fabulous!
Sooooooo, how do you choose to “encourage” one religion over all others without de facto establishing an official religion? Hmmmmmmm?
The founders did not actually want to encourage any religion, and if you read even the most basic papers by them you could see that. But we are working with the Liar David Barton’s lackeys. If the founders wanted to encourage Christianity, then why didn’t they use the words, Christianity, God, Jesus or Holy Ghost in any of our governmental documents? The constitution would be rife with christianese. But it isn’t. It clearly defines a separation from Christianity and other religions, with any mention of religion being a proscription against encouraging it as a governmental policy.
This isn’t broken brain thinking, this is straight up corruption making a concerted effort to break the rules. It is intentionally flawed logic, not a confusion.
I understand the argument that that 1A applied to the federal government and not the states when it was adopted. But at some point SCOTUS decided that individual people were entitled to protection from the imposition of government religion no matter which state they lived in and no matter which level of government was involved. And the 14th (?) amendment is the reason.
Do I have that right?
Are these folk attempting to get SCOTUS to overturn that interpretation?
They have had a mad on about the 14th amendment since it passed , always looking for that one thing that will erase it and let them go back to when only white christain males have any rights.
What a surprise - a white male from Florida has a hard-on for the sanctification of "the Framers." Facebook taught him everything he knows about the Founding Fathers, which of course, makes him an irrefutable academic. Just ask him.
These people continue believing their bible will bail them out of the hell they’re creating
Their god has been MIA for awhile
Urethrameier only proves that the 7 key founders were right to keep church and state separate; that religion should have no place at the table of governance.
Tax the damn churches already. Enough is enough.
Want taxpayer $$$, Jim-Jim? Then pay your taxes like Romans 13:6-7 tells its followers to do (and why). Won't do that? Then pray for what you want just as your Jesus told you to do. You do trust your deities, don't you?
So how are property taxes in the First Hill neighborhood of Seattle? It looks as if RCC owned St. James Cathedral takes up a lot of real estate.
And that's just the outside. 😉
Uthmeier has the look of someone whose mom fucked her brother.
And the look of someone who still fucks his mother.
Or a barnyard animal!🤨
Another christain loudly braying the the rules don't apply to them. The only solution is the one that most need to accept. That these lunatics need to be banished from any iota of control over society period. The death cult must die for everyone else to live.