426 Comments

I think the key takeaway here is: Trump judges are waiting in the weeds to pounce on batshit lawsuits that undermine our freedoms. It's a christofascist game plan.

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Sadly I believe you are spot on.

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That they are, thanks to the GOP, the Federalist Society, and rich Christian fundamental church leaders looking to profit from the death of democracy.

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Waiting in the weeds is right. Over 400 of them, I think. With noses twitching.

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It's about 3:30 AM here. Any filters I may normally have are sleeping the way I wish I could. This is the sort of article that honestly makes me wish people had flip-top heads. It would be lovely if we could just pop 'em open and remove all the garbage some folks seem determined to keep in their brain case.

There are dozens of myths about how the world was created, depending on the relative knowledge and beliefs of the person being asked. Evolution is the theory there is scientific support for, it's not a religious fever dream or drug-induced hallucination; that is why it is taught in schools. Parents do not get to dictate every bit of information that goes into their child's mind no matter how much they demand it as some sort of 'right.'

The Christian attitude that children belong to their parents is just flat wrong. It's past time some of these Christian parents got that memo. Children grow up, and when they're very fortunate, they get to fix all the BS their parents taught them to try and keep them in line.

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Yes! It is child abuse to indoctrinate children into religion. I'm in a red state, and they didn't teach evolution in the public school I went to. Now in my 60s, I'm working through deconstructing what I completely believed until 4 years ago. Yesterday I received a post from a former classmate that is convinced that Jesus is coming and Trump will help him save us from the illegals invading our borders. WTF??? Thanks for your post and let's get the truth about religion out there! We need equity, inclusion and love to fix this world. 💙

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Jesus hates desperate people fleeing poverty and violence. Wow.

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“Jesus hates desperate people fleeing poverty and violence.”

But the wolves in sheep’s clothing preaching to those desperate people love them - they’re so easy to fleece out of what little money they have.

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But but you know they are just lying, right?

/s

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Imagine believing that Chumpty-Dumpty would save anyone from anything, except the dreadful weight of their full wallet.

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He might save her if she's a 10 (or Ivanka)

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As old as she is now, I'm amazed his eyes haven't wandered over to his 𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 daughter yet.

...𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘢𝘳𝘧-𝘣𝘶𝘤𝘬𝘦𝘵.

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Just imagine if Barron had been a daughter.

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He has two granddaughters whose age is within his sick taste, Kai (17) and Arabella (13).

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You give us hope. People can become enlightened as late as their 60s after a lifetime believing in something that wasn't true.

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I totally agree. I completely dismissed the Bible as a book written by men and the lack of a supernatural being in the sky, but the eternal suffering of hellfire and damnation still leaves a lingering "what if I'm wrong" in my mind. It's abusive to teach this to children when they have impressionable minds. Let them grow up and make their own decisions.

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"On the Origin of Species" is a remarkably accessible book. She should read it some time. Darwin is a really good writer.

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The last line in your article states how it could happen again, but I remind you it has already happened and will happen again. See Hobby lobby case about how they should not have to provide reproductive health insurance to their female employees and the case about the Christian designer who didn't want to make a website for a gay marriage, but had never been asked: legal cases passed through the courts based on religious lies. It infuriates me.

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Yes. A minority is taking away rights based on hypothetical cases. That's why we need to keep voting for the Democrats all the way down the ticket as they are the most progressive folks we have right now and with them in charge we can fix the courts. 💙

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Evolution has evolved to being much more than just a theory. The evidence is overwhelming & indisputable. Some scientists call it the "Law of Evolution", which I think is a much more accurate term. We certainly don't know every detail on how every species evolved, but we do know they evolved from certain species of a previous era.

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It is a measure of the science illiteracy of these parents that they attack evolution and the big bang theory as if their beliefs win by default if these things can be discredited. It never seems to occur to them that they're under any obligation to prove their own point, and that attacking science doesn't do that. As for the big bang theory being atheistic, it was first put forward by Georges Lemaître who was both a Catholic priest and a theoretical physicist.

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In the case of the Reinoehls, it's worse than just science illiteracy; it's purposeful ignorance, ground into their brains by others of their kind who have their atavistic agenda to promote. And I suspect because it's far easier to subscribe to a simplistic fairy tale, such as creationism, than it is to attempt to at least partially understand the vast and beautiful complexities of the Big Bang theory or evolution.

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+++ As near as I can tell, thinking, especially critical thinking, is physically painful for some people. It is ever so much easier to simply believe and never ask questions.

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This is years ago, but I remember an article in Playboy magazine, where it was mentioned that children of fundamentalist Christian parents were being discouraged from being curious and/or asking questions, because those actions could bruise their precious Christian faith. I was flabbergasted at that statement, not fully understanding WHY back then that they would take such an attitude.

Needless to say, I know why now 😝

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Fundamentalism does not stand up to critical thinking, and the preachers know that, even if they won't admit it.

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Fundamentalism doesn't stand up to "thinking" at all. The religious leaders don't want people who think.

Why do you think they always portrayed Jesus as a shepherd guiding a flock of sheep? Because sheep are STUPID.

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If their parents followed the pearls' torture guide, curiosity was physically and painfully discouraged.

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Never read To Train Up a Child (doubt I could have stomached it!), but somehow, I'm not surprised that that would be in there ... and it just makes me that much sadder for the kids who were raised with that damned piece of crap as a supposed "guide." 🤢🤮

Edit: Change "Raise" to "Train."

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Did you mean "To Train Up a Child"? I am not going to pay for that. Better read would be "How to train up a child" by Rose J Flores, where the harmful parts from the first book is discussed and nonviolent methods to raise happy children are written about.

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Libby Ann on Love, joy, feminism (back in patheos days) talked about it regularly.

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Hemant had quite a few posts on it, back in the day.

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GMTA. I just referenced it above.

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You *read* Playboy?

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Used to, until I realized maybe 15 years ago that they were writing mostly to an audience that wasn't me, or wasn't anymore. I have fond memories of fiction and fantasy they published, like "Heirs of the Perisphere" and "A Meeting with Medusa," and Playboy Interviews which could be amazing and disturbing.

So yeah ... I DID read it for the articles ... AND the photography!

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I read it for both, as well. If it hadn’t been for Playboy, I might not have discovered what a royal douche John Wayne was.

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Somewhere in my files I have a .jpg of images of church signs reviling education. Of course they want their followers to follow, without question or challenge, the 2000 year old doctrine that's never been updated when new knowledge is discovered.

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Look up "blanket training" fundamentalists like the Duggars recommend it. They place a baby on a blanket and hit them with a small dowel until they learn not to move off it. They literally beat the natural curiousity out of their babies.

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Playboy was solely for the articles, right?

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See above!

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I have five different brain damages. That means that I can't work full time because I get mentally exhausted usually after 5-6 work hours. And I am unable to work every day, so I usually have Thursdays off. But I'm still able to prosess new information, reading, adjust my behaviour when needed etc. I must be a superwoman compared to this Reino-something woman.

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You do damned well here, from where I sit, and light-years ahead of Ms. Reinoehl., I doubt she could find a clue with a clue-sniffing dog!

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Thanks for kind words and a good laugh.

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My pleasure! 👍

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Yes, seconded.

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DM was around 55 when she learned to use a computer. Older when she had her first smartphone. Try to replace them with a typewriter and the bricks who served as cellphones in the 90's. You'd better be fast enough to dodge her cane.

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I applaud you and wish you all the best.

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A person in your situation doing any kind of work is to be admired. Compared to healthy, able-bodied folks who won't lift a finger, you are a superstar!

I've been retired for awhile. I could work if I really had to, if anybody would hire me.

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“If you make them think they are thinking, they will love you. If you actually make them think, they will kill you”.

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Ha! Good one! 👍

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🎯Yes, I have tried gently prodding them along with logical points, but at some point they seem to hit a wall, and just stop thinking.

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The great thing about Science is it is true whether you believe it or not. Unfortunately, these cretins want to impose their ignorance on the whole of society.

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The indoctrination produces a such a rigidness to their binary thinking that they will get confused if you suggest that disproving one does not automatically prove the other. The idea that disproving evolution is not the same as proving creationism is as foreign to them as responding "which god?" to Pascal's wager.

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+++ Exactly. If someone did prove evolution to be completely wrong, that would in no way validate a Bronze Age creation myth. The Biblical creation story is but one of hundreds.

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Same for the Theory of evolution, most of the bricks who led to it were put upon by christians.

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To these kinds of people,Catholics are NOT Christians.

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Just reading Hemant's OP, it doesn't sound like they were making the false dichotomy argument to try and get creationism into schools. They were just trying to get ToE and BBT out.

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Their indoctrination is so deep they think that getting evolution and big bang out automatically puts creationism in. The false dichotomy is implied.

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I'd have to read the legal suit, but from what Hemant says, there appears to be nothing to their lawsuit demanding schools teach creationism, only that it not teach evolution. IOW they appear to be relitigating 𝐸𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑣. 𝐴𝑟𝑘𝑎𝑛𝑠𝑎𝑠, not 𝐸𝑑𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑠 𝑣. 𝐴𝑔𝑢𝑖𝑙𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑑 or 𝑊𝑒𝑏𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑣. 𝑁𝑒𝑤 𝐿𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑥.

Yes they probably, ultimately, want the result you say. But that wasn't their legal strategy, and yes the strategies ARE different.

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Specious reasoning is the sine qua non of Christianity.

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𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑅𝑒𝑖𝑛𝑜𝑒ℎ𝑙𝑠 𝑠𝑎𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑑𝑎𝑢𝑔ℎ𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑆𝑎𝑟𝑎ℎ “𝑠𝑢𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑝𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑢𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 [𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑡] 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝐶𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑅𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡𝑠.

Ummm ... just WHAT "Constitutional Rights" were those? The right to be stupid, to be uneducated, or just the supposed right to act like a Karen and take up valuable court time? Thankfully, their tripe was thrown out of court and good riddance.

Christian fundamentalists have been trying to move American education back to the Stone Age (which according to them, never happened!) for longer than I care to think, and it's refreshing and encouraging to see that there are judges out there who aren't having any.

As for those doughnuts? Far as I'm concerned, Jennifer Reinoehl can learn to make her own. 😝

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Karens of tbe Stone Age died without children because the others knew using fire and cutting flint was essential for their survival and wanted nothing to do with them.

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A new band name??

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"Karens of the Stone Age" ... ROFLMAO!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Oh, that's PERFECT! Thanks for the laugh!

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Karan whineres.

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She can clog her arteries, and the arteries of her family anywhere she wants to, even at Krispy Kreme. Americans are the least healthy human beings on the planet from eating this sugar- and fat- laden crap.

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Krispy Kreme donuts are without peer.

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Walmart donuts are better. And half the price.

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We have a Casey's convenience store right here in town that makes donuts every day that are delicious. The closest Krispy Kreme is 4 hours away!

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If you’ve never seen it before, you should watch this:

https://youtu.be/nRL8W1w_gag?si=yIz__-KsuKLdM2NP

“Irish People Try Krispy Kreme Donuts for the First Time”

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I've seen that, I watch that channel all the time! I have concluded that UK food is REALLY bad, because you rarely see them eat something they don't like!

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That’s, like, just your opinion, man.

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Not a man, boy.

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"Holistically Ms. Reinoehl’s complaints have been unintelligible due to their length; excess and impertinent information and exhibits; arguments made rather than facts pleaded; tangential mentions of liability under numerous constitutional provisions, statutes, and agency rules; and the joinder of mostly unrelated claims against sixteen defendants."

Judgespeak for "You're a dumbshitnutjob, quit wasting my time."

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Damn it, people! I have a god-given right to keep my children ignorant about the way the world actually works. I could put my children in a Christian school to dumb them down but I’d rather keep them in public school so I can file frivolous lawsuits.

Jennifer is what’s known in the biz as a serial filer. This won’t be the last time. She’ll find some other businesses that offend her.

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There is a person in my public school district who files so many Freedom of Info requests that the school system has an employee who does almost nothing else other than respond to them. She has run for school board several times and always finishes dead last. Last year she challenged several dozen books with a list gleaned from a Moms for Liberty website. She freely acknowledged she hadn’t read any of them. Hundreds if not thousands of staff and volunteer hours went into addressing the challenge. More than 50 people served on a bunch of committees to read and pass judgment on the books. 2 were removed and two more were restricted to high school libraries. Now she is appealing the 30-some where she didn’t get her way. And complaining that the appeal process isn’t fair because….reasons.

Oh, and she homeschooled all of her kids except for the special needs one. And sued the school system over how it provided education to that kid.

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Bored fundie housewife? Too many like her. All part of the Wingnut Bubble Grievance Brigade ®

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That's really shameful to take books out of schools your kids don't even attend. That shouldn't be allowed. One person should not have the right to dictate what others can be allowed to access. That's just ridiculous.

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Talk about entitlement. One quick research reveals dozen of religious schools in Idaho.

Ch'tite question vite fonce. 4 of their five children graduated from the same high school, why only their daughter Sarah suffered from emotional distress. Why her sibling mentioned who was a year behind was not included ? And why her parents let a younger sibling there when their daughter, allegedly, already had her toddler tantrum ?

"The family members represented themselves because no credible lawyer would ever waste everyone’s time like this."

"I am surprised liberty counsel didn't jump on the opportunity. Or is there is not enough right wing nut judges in Idaho ?

She explained to the store manager that she had a medical disability and could not wear a mask but was still denied entry."

La belle affaire. I can't wear a mask for more than 30 minutes without having trouble breathing, I endured and put them anyway.

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I suspect you managed the mask because 1) you understood the benefit of using one and 2) you actually care about the well being of someone other than just yourself, particularly in a public setting.

The Reinoehls are so wrapped up in themselves that it is a near-impossibility for them to consider others.

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#2 was always the problem. Masks were always for the benefit of others, more than for the person wearing them, but the notion of accepting a trivial discomfort to potentially save someone else's life would just never even cross their self-absorbed little minds.

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Where do we begin with this one? I could easily fill an entire page exposing the stupidity. So I'll keep it short. As I've mentioned before, evolution is one chapter in a HS biology text. Learning about evolution will do far less damage to your daughter's health Ms. Reinoehls, than Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Since you oppose the teaching of evolution, you probably support the teaching of "Intelligent Design". Maybe you would like to explain to the rest of us why you have asthma. And while you're at it, we would like to hear you explain why (and how) some bacteria develop resistance to antibiotics

I'm grateful (and guessing) that the judge in this case wasn't groomed by The Federalist Society.

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Having read down the thread, I see that no lawyers would take their case, which surprised the hell out of me, what with all the Liberty University grads with law degrees. It must have been really bad.

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Have people like this never thought or never practiced personal responsibility? Don't want your kids taught evolution? Send them to a religious school. Don't like a book? Don't read it. Don't like a show? Don't watch it? Like why are their decisions made into these huge deals? Sue someone, ban books etc. It's totally rediculous.

(Ok so I KNOW why they do it, it's just so fucking tedious)

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Their gods demand thy control everyone. No personal freedom allowed.

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Well it’s right there in the Bill of Rights, isn’t it???? The unalienable right to a preferred brand of donut? I know I saw it somewhere..,

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Yeah, but the donuts have to be well regulated.

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A well-satiated appetite, being necessary to the felicity of a free state, the right of the people to eat and share donuts, shall not be infringed.

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Praise the Lard and pass the jelly-filled donuts!

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That’s it! Chapter and verse!

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Glad that the judge tossed it out. Those parents were being stupid. Everything they claimed is entirely made up and unfounded.

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Problem is, everything (or damned near) that Trump and his lawyers bring up in court is "entirely made up and unfounded," yet they continue to get away with a great deal of their bullshit.

Thankfully, there are still judges like Sarah Barker, who see through all that crap and refuse to tolerate it.

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𝑈𝑙𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑦, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑛 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑎𝑢𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠 𝑎𝑠 𝑖𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑒

Ideally, science teachers should teach them as the best supported current conclusions of science, used by scientists and society everywhere to perform useful tasks, but hypothetically provisional and subject to revision should new evidence arise in the future that points to a better explanation. They should also point out that 𝑠𝑚𝑎𝑙𝑙 revisions to best supported theories happen all the time, such as scientists reconsidering how much horizontal gene transfer played a role in evolution.

But maybe that's College 101 stuff. For HS, 'true' is pretty close to it. :)

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦 𝑚𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑚𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑛𝑜 𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤𝑦𝑒𝑟 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑤𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑒 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒’𝑠 𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑒 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠.

What, no Larry Klayman? Not that I *want* him involved in stuff like this, but it's probably crazy and right wing enough for him to want to do it. [Edit: aahhh, wreck beat me to it....]

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Looks like they’re unwilling to take the right-wing, fundamentalist Christian classes on how to be persecuted for fun and profit. She’s trying to do this without professional guidance. Eventually they’ll break down and get some professional help. At some point Liberty Counsel or some other looney anti-constitution organization will get involved. Then we’ll all be in trouble.

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"They said evolution was false because no species “has ever been observed to change into another”."

What do they mean by "species", and what do they think one changing into another would look like? If they think that it means something like an individual animal either giving birth to or transforming into a completely different one (say a dog becoming a cat) then no, that isn't how it works. If they can accept the actual definitions of speciation, then all I need to do to prove that species HAVE been observed to change into another is to point them to the now 30 years out of date List of Observed Speciation Events at the Talk Origins archive.

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This is the second time this year that Hemant has posted on some fundie confusing the plot of Edgar Rice Burroughs' "Land that Time Forgot" with science. Maybe there's some new A Beka book or other trendy fundy misinformation publication that is promoting it.

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These malevolent phucks think evolution works like pokemon.

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👏👏😂🤣😂🤣

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"But all it takes is one right-wing judge to use her lawsuits as a green-light to rule however he or she wants, and Reinoehl could create the chaos she seeks."

Paging Larry Klayman. Larry Klayman to the white courtesy phone.

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