This is what the Dominionist movement, which House Speaker Johnson is a part of, has planned for all of America. All individual rights would be gone, including any right to privacy. They want to abolish the U.S. Constitution and replace it with a fundamentalist Christian theocracy. They would structure the world of their dreams around the blood-thirsty monster of the Old Testament. You would think we would have outgrown this problem by now, but some people just cannot stop trying to force their religion on others. Church-state separation is more important than it has ever been.
Folks...it is going to get extremely shitty out there, unless we get very, very fortunate with the next several election cycles and trounce these entitled assholes into irrelevance.
It was very spur of the moment (normally it's a 3AM revelation). I'm afraid I used up my good wit quota with that one. Only mundane wit for a while now.
My only question is how do these people continually get away with force feeding religious doctrine on those who don’t want it; especially the most marginalized, or people without a choice?
Hermant, you’ve given us example after example over the course of this year, and these people never pay a price. Not in public schools, in business or apparently, through the Board of Corrections, both at state and federal levels.
And what happens if these religious nut jobs in Congress and the Whitehouse continue to put religious whack jobs on the bench? It’s a rhetorical question, no need to answer!
This is an excellent point and one that I have made repeatedly, particularly with regard to the Catholic Church and the child sex abuse scandal which continues to this day. In the case of the RCC, they have paid a monetary price for their aberrations, but that is nowhere near enough. Priests and monsignors and bishops and archbishops need to go to JAIL, if the magnitude of their crimes is to be appreciated by them.
On a lesser level, the same may be said for the cases of Mark Janny and Andrew Miller. Those who presumed on those men and others like them need to pay a personal price for their decisions and actions.
If punishment isn't appropriate, no lesson is learned.
My country and Australia tried to held priests accountable for their crimes or for abetting them, in both cases the culprits were released "circulez, y'a rien à voir" 🤬
A corollary to that last part is that too harsh of a punishment is as counterproductive as too little. Coming down like a sack of bricks on a non-infraction like 𝘯𝘰𝘵 attending religious services or programs will only result in convicts who, upon finally being released, may resent the entire justice system and lose all respect for the law. Why should anyone respect a clearly unjust system- especially when that same system 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘴 to even attempt to punish other people who have clearly committed far more heinous crimes, under cover of the very same religion they were punished for not practicing?
Well, you see, mandatory sentences are there to help make sure the people running the prison make money, not to solve any problems. /snark
I swear, making the prison system for-profit was one of the worst ideas ever. What, did we not have enough businesses making money off the misery of the masses?
Because as a society we don’t pay that much attention to how people in our criminal justice system are treated.
Pious politicians like Mike Johnson claim to base their politics on the Bible, but prisoner mistreatment is never on their list of causes despite clear regard for prisoners in the Biblical texts.
The situation brings out the worst in people on both sides of the bars. It's a self-perpetuating, if not self-amplifying, cycle.
The man I knew as my stepfather was a wonderful, easy-going guy, but the stories he tells of his time as a correctional officer paint a very different side of him. It bothers me, greatly.
I know a lot fewer things for certain than I used to as a younger person, but my political ideology lodestar has become anti-authoritarianism. No one, nowhere, no how, should have power without accountability, from the school principal and the prison guard, to the POTUS and the SCOTUS. There is a reason why “power corrupts...” is a cliche.
But on the flip side, how do you bring any semblance of order to a group who have demonstrated a deep unwillingness to abide by the social contract without a certain amount of authoritarianism? There needs to be accountability, but there also needs to be understanding of the environment.
Im certainly not an anarchist and not even a libertarian. I think the best we can do is have authority without authoritarianism. Separation of powers. Real Accountability, both to other people in the government and to the voters.
True, but the religious wing-nut playbook calls for the destruction of every other religion before they start tearing each other apart for control!...:)
European history is proof it's not the case. What would become catholicism happily trumped Arianism long before Islam was founded. Massacre of Pagans for being Pagans didn't really started before Charlemagne/Carolus Magnus.
By the way check the wars between Neustria and Austrasia, both kingdoms had the same religion 🙄
The Orthodox Church is currently having quite a time of it in Russia and Ukraine. When it comes to giving the holy imprimatur to the conquering slaughter of civilians, nobody is going to keep the Russian church in the corner.
This case tracks directly from the Andrew Miller case which Hemant cited yesterday. While Christians of one form or another may constitute a plurality in the US, the fact remains that non-Christians have rights, and those rights need to be recognized and especially so in less-than-ideal situations such as imprisonment. Both Mark Janny and Andrew Miller were denied their rights while they were incarcerated, and some form of compensation isn't just deserved but is necessary, both to correct at least in part the errors made on their persons, but also to impress on those who made those mistakes that, to put it mildly, 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗬 𝗦𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗪𝗘𝗗 𝗨𝗣.
And I agree with Sean that reprimands and possibly monetary penalties should be levied on those responsible.
But we know that no one cent will come out from their pockets since they violated this man rights while doing their civil servants jobs. And that's a major problem.
I've long thought that cops, prosecutors, and prison officials who abuse their power ought to receive exactly the same sentence as the person whose rights they violated.
...not that the powers that be would ever agree to put their necks on the line as insurance against their integrity.
Their response is that no matter what bad things they do, as long as they "accept" Christ as their savior and ask for his forgiveness, they have a direct path to heaven. What a racket.
The religious halfway house should not be the only option for parolees, nor should it be the first option. It can be a part of a list of many options, but that would mean the county would have to find and fund other options. What alternatives were offered to Janny? Religion or jail apparently. This is obviously unconstitutional and yet the system saw no issue with it.
It is messed up that the system is setup in way that ensures failure for folks. Being imprisoned causes a loss of employment and residence then demands you to immediately have employment and a residence once you leave with the added burden of having a conviction under your belt, which can and does make attaining both impossible. Being thrown back in jail or prison only exacerbates the issue. I understand that allowing these people to live on the streets with no job or accountability only serves to add to recidivism, but so does the super strict pressure from uncaring and unbending parole officers.
The system saw no problem with it because the system is unconsciously 𝑑𝑒-𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑜 Christian. Here's a thought: since we're supposed to be a 𝑑𝑒-𝑗𝑢𝑟𝑒 secular state, why not have secular programs become the FIRST CHOICE for inmates, and if certain inmates desire more religious content, they can opt for that. Yeah, yeah, I know, that costs more money.
The solution that doesn't demand more tax-supported halfway houses is to tell religious organizations that they can create these places but can't compel the residents to attend the religious activities.
And basically the same rule would apply to non-religious halfway houses too. Whatever the ideology of the people creating the halfway house, you can't compel the residents to adopt it or listen to your spiel. Offer it as an optional service, yes. Kick people out for ignoring your offer, no.
[late edit] But there will be a cost for that. Just as the RCC sometimes says "if i can't run this adoption center/school/facility my way, I won't run it at all," I am sure some religious organizations would do the same here. If they can't compel religion in exchange for their good deed, they won't do the good deed.
Says the man whose entire fortune was built on the backs of Apartheid slaves mining emeralds. Fuck Musk, he’s always been a racist POS and now he’s a world renown racist POS. Anyone who idolizes him are shitty people too.
Or has been living under a rock for the last couple of years. I was aware he was not a nice person and was driving that Godawful Bird App into the ground, but I had no idea he was a white supremacist.
I'm thinking his leaving Pretoria to emigrate first to Canada and then the US had more to do with economic opportunities for himself rather than any hatred of Apartheid.
On second thought, let's not do that, there's enough junk floating in orbit. We don't want to end up with a junk cloud around the planet ala 'WALL-E' (For a kids' movie, could it have been any more preachy?)
Of course I'm begin facetious...and you are correct. Have some compassion: You try running 6 companies at once while being a celebrity and responding to thousands of tweets a day!
I really would like for Mike Sacred History Johnson to have to explain how God could be ok with the genocide of indigenous peoples, Jim Crow, race riots and lynchings, trumped up wars of conquest against Mexico and Spain, exploitation of Chinese labor, extrajudicial killing of labor organizers, eugenics against the disabled, abuse of Native American schoolchildren, firebombing of Dresden, My Lai,... but it’s homosexuals being allowed to bang in peace and get married that brings on the hurricanes? What the holy fuck, Johnson?
These people need to make up their minds whether America is a" Christian nation" or whether it deserves (in their minds) God's wrath. Pick a horse and ride it!
Part of the problem is that the Law™ is designed so that there are gatekeepers. This is as should be. To protect us all of course. For example it should never be allowed that a scofflaw be elected to supreme office, or allow commissions to hire police officers without seeing past history of conduct, or judges to accept gifts and then rule on cases connected to the sources of those gifts, or allow a religious order to move persons that violate sexual violence laws to retirement camps, begin wars of occupation based on the purchase of aluminum tubes and raw uranium, or banks taking in profits based on jpegs or predatory loan practices or altering laws in their favor or funding criminals while keeping their assets safe. Huh. The last time stuff like that happened the French got real fast and loose with guillotines.
A monetary award may be the best resolution for Janny's case. But for society at large I would instead hope for a judicial ruling that no parole-eligible "residence of record" may compel religious activity as a criteria for residence.
This is what the Dominionist movement, which House Speaker Johnson is a part of, has planned for all of America. All individual rights would be gone, including any right to privacy. They want to abolish the U.S. Constitution and replace it with a fundamentalist Christian theocracy. They would structure the world of their dreams around the blood-thirsty monster of the Old Testament. You would think we would have outgrown this problem by now, but some people just cannot stop trying to force their religion on others. Church-state separation is more important than it has ever been.
They won't have to abolish the Constitution- they'll just ignore it.
Now, now, it's not ignoring it - it's selective implementation.
It sounds way more sophistimacated like that.
Everybody has now seen Mike Johnson. It's scary!
Some (the thomases, mtg) would have a nasty surprise but it would be too late for them to protest.
They think the leopards won't eat their faces.
Like this trumpista with her Mexican husband who was deported upon drumpster policies.
Folks...it is going to get extremely shitty out there, unless we get very, very fortunate with the next several election cycles and trounce these entitled assholes into irrelevance.
Compensation is good, but the parole board needs to be severely reprimanded.
Plus, this is a minor win. 1 step forward and 12 steps back, that's how the program works.
12 steps. I see what you did there.
I resent the fact that he beat me to it. :)
It was very spur of the moment (normally it's a 3AM revelation). I'm afraid I used up my good wit quota with that one. Only mundane wit for a while now.
All wit is good wit. :D
I'm afraid that is a half-truth.
Move in Europe or Oceania 😁
Isn't Oceania at war with Eastasia? ;)
Yup, and has been since forever!
Big Brother is suing drumpster for copyright infringement. It's safe 😁
Why cats will never join a 12-step program:
Step 1: I acknowledge the existence of a higher authority.
:)
My only question is how do these people continually get away with force feeding religious doctrine on those who don’t want it; especially the most marginalized, or people without a choice?
Hermant, you’ve given us example after example over the course of this year, and these people never pay a price. Not in public schools, in business or apparently, through the Board of Corrections, both at state and federal levels.
And what happens if these religious nut jobs in Congress and the Whitehouse continue to put religious whack jobs on the bench? It’s a rhetorical question, no need to answer!
What a joke!
This is an excellent point and one that I have made repeatedly, particularly with regard to the Catholic Church and the child sex abuse scandal which continues to this day. In the case of the RCC, they have paid a monetary price for their aberrations, but that is nowhere near enough. Priests and monsignors and bishops and archbishops need to go to JAIL, if the magnitude of their crimes is to be appreciated by them.
On a lesser level, the same may be said for the cases of Mark Janny and Andrew Miller. Those who presumed on those men and others like them need to pay a personal price for their decisions and actions.
If punishment isn't appropriate, no lesson is learned.
If compensation is paid with public money, only the taxpayers are punished.
My country and Australia tried to held priests accountable for their crimes or for abetting them, in both cases the culprits were released "circulez, y'a rien à voir" 🤬
True, and now these people are even more dangerous, because they feel emboldened by a religious SCOTUS.
SCOTUS=Supreme CHURCH of the United States
A corollary to that last part is that too harsh of a punishment is as counterproductive as too little. Coming down like a sack of bricks on a non-infraction like 𝘯𝘰𝘵 attending religious services or programs will only result in convicts who, upon finally being released, may resent the entire justice system and lose all respect for the law. Why should anyone respect a clearly unjust system- especially when that same system 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘴 to even attempt to punish other people who have clearly committed far more heinous crimes, under cover of the very same religion they were punished for not practicing?
To that point, I think mandatory sentences have been more of a problem than they've solved.
Well, you see, mandatory sentences are there to help make sure the people running the prison make money, not to solve any problems. /snark
I swear, making the prison system for-profit was one of the worst ideas ever. What, did we not have enough businesses making money off the misery of the masses?
Same reason this guy has gotten away with abusing juvenile detention center inmates for decades:
https://www.propublica.org/article/knoxville-detention-center-illegally-locks-kids-alone-in-cells
Because as a society we don’t pay that much attention to how people in our criminal justice system are treated.
Pious politicians like Mike Johnson claim to base their politics on the Bible, but prisoner mistreatment is never on their list of causes despite clear regard for prisoners in the Biblical texts.
The situation brings out the worst in people on both sides of the bars. It's a self-perpetuating, if not self-amplifying, cycle.
The man I knew as my stepfather was a wonderful, easy-going guy, but the stories he tells of his time as a correctional officer paint a very different side of him. It bothers me, greatly.
I know a lot fewer things for certain than I used to as a younger person, but my political ideology lodestar has become anti-authoritarianism. No one, nowhere, no how, should have power without accountability, from the school principal and the prison guard, to the POTUS and the SCOTUS. There is a reason why “power corrupts...” is a cliche.
But on the flip side, how do you bring any semblance of order to a group who have demonstrated a deep unwillingness to abide by the social contract without a certain amount of authoritarianism? There needs to be accountability, but there also needs to be understanding of the environment.
I don't see an easy solution.
Im certainly not an anarchist and not even a libertarian. I think the best we can do is have authority without authoritarianism. Separation of powers. Real Accountability, both to other people in the government and to the voters.
That guy is a psychopathic child abuser.
What do they think they're going to accomplish? They can't even agree on what Christianity is among themselves.
True, but the religious wing-nut playbook calls for the destruction of every other religion before they start tearing each other apart for control!...:)
European history is proof it's not the case. What would become catholicism happily trumped Arianism long before Islam was founded. Massacre of Pagans for being Pagans didn't really started before Charlemagne/Carolus Magnus.
By the way check the wars between Neustria and Austrasia, both kingdoms had the same religion 🙄
The Orthodox Church is currently having quite a time of it in Russia and Ukraine. When it comes to giving the holy imprimatur to the conquering slaughter of civilians, nobody is going to keep the Russian church in the corner.
This case tracks directly from the Andrew Miller case which Hemant cited yesterday. While Christians of one form or another may constitute a plurality in the US, the fact remains that non-Christians have rights, and those rights need to be recognized and especially so in less-than-ideal situations such as imprisonment. Both Mark Janny and Andrew Miller were denied their rights while they were incarcerated, and some form of compensation isn't just deserved but is necessary, both to correct at least in part the errors made on their persons, but also to impress on those who made those mistakes that, to put it mildly, 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗬 𝗦𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗪𝗘𝗗 𝗨𝗣.
And I agree with Sean that reprimands and possibly monetary penalties should be levied on those responsible.
But we know that no one cent will come out from their pockets since they violated this man rights while doing their civil servants jobs. And that's a major problem.
I've long thought that cops, prosecutors, and prison officials who abuse their power ought to receive exactly the same sentence as the person whose rights they violated.
...not that the powers that be would ever agree to put their necks on the line as insurance against their integrity.
I would be surprised if the number of people who have power *and* integrity is more than a third of those with power. And I think I'm being generous.
To be fair, Christians never, ever commit crimes or do anything wrong, so you know going to Bible study magically makes you perfect.
Christians are especially perfectly behaved when thy have power over another person’s liberties or life.
Henry VIII, Charles IX, Isabella 1st of Castile and her husband...
Tomás de Torquemada...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnF1OtP2Svk
"Let's face it, you can't talk him outta anything."
Their response is that no matter what bad things they do, as long as they "accept" Christ as their savior and ask for his forgiveness, they have a direct path to heaven. What a racket.
Their "get out of hell free" card.
Police blotters across the country say otherwise.
The religious halfway house should not be the only option for parolees, nor should it be the first option. It can be a part of a list of many options, but that would mean the county would have to find and fund other options. What alternatives were offered to Janny? Religion or jail apparently. This is obviously unconstitutional and yet the system saw no issue with it.
It is messed up that the system is setup in way that ensures failure for folks. Being imprisoned causes a loss of employment and residence then demands you to immediately have employment and a residence once you leave with the added burden of having a conviction under your belt, which can and does make attaining both impossible. Being thrown back in jail or prison only exacerbates the issue. I understand that allowing these people to live on the streets with no job or accountability only serves to add to recidivism, but so does the super strict pressure from uncaring and unbending parole officers.
The system saw no problem with it because the system is unconsciously 𝑑𝑒-𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑜 Christian. Here's a thought: since we're supposed to be a 𝑑𝑒-𝑗𝑢𝑟𝑒 secular state, why not have secular programs become the FIRST CHOICE for inmates, and if certain inmates desire more religious content, they can opt for that. Yeah, yeah, I know, that costs more money.
So do court cases.
The solution that doesn't demand more tax-supported halfway houses is to tell religious organizations that they can create these places but can't compel the residents to attend the religious activities.
And basically the same rule would apply to non-religious halfway houses too. Whatever the ideology of the people creating the halfway house, you can't compel the residents to adopt it or listen to your spiel. Offer it as an optional service, yes. Kick people out for ignoring your offer, no.
[late edit] But there will be a cost for that. Just as the RCC sometimes says "if i can't run this adoption center/school/facility my way, I won't run it at all," I am sure some religious organizations would do the same here. If they can't compel religion in exchange for their good deed, they won't do the good deed.
Which tells us all we need to know about Christian charity.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/16/elon-musk-antisemitic-tweet-adl
OT – musk goes full fascist.
Says the man whose entire fortune was built on the backs of Apartheid slaves mining emeralds. Fuck Musk, he’s always been a racist POS and now he’s a world renown racist POS. Anyone who idolizes him are shitty people too.
Or has been living under a rock for the last couple of years. I was aware he was not a nice person and was driving that Godawful Bird App into the ground, but I had no idea he was a white supremacist.
He claims he and his wealthy family were anti-Apartheid. Don't know if that's true or he simply retconned.
I’m sure the family was just as anti-Apartheid as the plantation owners were anti-slavery in the antebellum south.
I can give the family the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe it of Musk himself.
I'm thinking his leaving Pretoria to emigrate first to Canada and then the US had more to do with economic opportunities for himself rather than any hatred of Apartheid.
His anti white racism rethoric make me think his family was for Apartheid.
Somebody strap Musk to the outside of one of his Dragon capsules the next time one goes up.
In a Tesla.
On second thought, let's not do that, there's enough junk floating in orbit. We don't want to end up with a junk cloud around the planet ala 'WALL-E' (For a kids' movie, could it have been any more preachy?)
In one episode of The Simpsons Bart and Homer get on a shuttle destined to end in the sun.
One way trip to the Sun.
"Actually, he would boil away."
You say that like it's bad thing. 😉
Yeah, but there would be *two* Teslas worth of junk in orbit.
Musk thought "dialectical" was "dielectric" referring to transmission of force without electrical conduction.
I don't know if you're being facetious, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. It's amazing how actually ignorant some of the very rich are. :)
Of course I'm begin facetious...and you are correct. Have some compassion: You try running 6 companies at once while being a celebrity and responding to thousands of tweets a day!
Breaking: The man who assaulted Paul Pelosi and tried to kidnap Nancy Peloci is found GUILTY of all counts!
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/16/us/david-depape-paul-pelosi-verdict.html
But...but...he apologized and everything!
That photo of a man reading the bible while handcuffed. So much for "The truth shall set you free."
You've got the wrong version, their is "In truth we will set you on fire.".
their have been gay people throughout human history, and they will continue to be around for as long as humanity is present.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/mike-johnson-america-god-wrath-jim-garlow-1234879233/
I really would like for Mike Sacred History Johnson to have to explain how God could be ok with the genocide of indigenous peoples, Jim Crow, race riots and lynchings, trumped up wars of conquest against Mexico and Spain, exploitation of Chinese labor, extrajudicial killing of labor organizers, eugenics against the disabled, abuse of Native American schoolchildren, firebombing of Dresden, My Lai,... but it’s homosexuals being allowed to bang in peace and get married that brings on the hurricanes? What the holy fuck, Johnson?
Those things are okay, according to the bibble, but the gays are icky poo.
Look at the god they worship. "The most unpleasant character in all fiction."
I mean, genocide is practically their god's favorite hobby, so...
These people need to make up their minds whether America is a" Christian nation" or whether it deserves (in their minds) God's wrath. Pick a horse and ride it!
I just don’t understand why the Atlantic and Gulf Coast cities have to bear the brunt of God’s wreath at homosexuality.
god has very bad aim.
He may have stolen Zeus' lightning bolts but lacks the skill to wield them.
"I think that God has a sick sense of humor.
And when I die,
I expect to find him laughing."
-Depeche Mode
That sonofabitch Johnson sounds less like a legislator and more like a bible-thumper.
He's a dangerously obsessed, delusional control freak who sees himself within striking distance of establishing his wet dream theocracy in the U.S.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e04b096d7e8a94171c089303a550bef8b4ed9f21581f0fc42dabdec6b2bb4828.jpg
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality
Bought and read several weeks ago.
What a difference a letter makes. Would you rather have a religious-liberty case argued before Judge RAY Moore or Judge ROY Moore?
I know I wouldn't want want a case of rape/incest to land in the hands of the later.
None of this nominal $1 to make a point nonsense! Go for the big bucks.
Too right. Unless it hurts someone personally, they're not going to change.
Paying tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars makes a point too. ;-)
Imagine how many folks who this has happened to who played along to avoid jail.
All of them, more or less.
Part of the problem is that the Law™ is designed so that there are gatekeepers. This is as should be. To protect us all of course. For example it should never be allowed that a scofflaw be elected to supreme office, or allow commissions to hire police officers without seeing past history of conduct, or judges to accept gifts and then rule on cases connected to the sources of those gifts, or allow a religious order to move persons that violate sexual violence laws to retirement camps, begin wars of occupation based on the purchase of aluminum tubes and raw uranium, or banks taking in profits based on jpegs or predatory loan practices or altering laws in their favor or funding criminals while keeping their assets safe. Huh. The last time stuff like that happened the French got real fast and loose with guillotines.
Maybe there shouldn't be gatekeepers.
And less than ten years later we had an emperor.
And you will separate the Church from the State, my bayonet says so!
18th century bayonet ? You want to try it with my favorite cooking knife who has a Damascus blade ? 😏
Stands 2 meters away and stabby stabby.
Do you realise how much a 18th century musket/rifle weights ?
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/small-arms-revolution
Yes, unwieldily but I have been studying the blade my whole life.
And the pendulum of history continues to swing back and forth...
A monetary award may be the best resolution for Janny's case. But for society at large I would instead hope for a judicial ruling that no parole-eligible "residence of record" may compel religious activity as a criteria for residence.
Even if they couldn't compel it, they'd find ways to 𝘤𝘰𝘦𝘳𝘤𝘦 it.
Like Feucht's goons did to that homeless guy.
OT - Cue 𝘛𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘡𝘰𝘯𝘦 music, I won the first three games of solitaire I played today. Oh, and btw, my internet is all floopy again.
Floopy? Is that a technical term? 😇
Yes, from the Phoebe Buffay School of Mechanical Engineering.
You just stay the hoopy frood we all know and love.
Cheater.
The program won't let me. 😤
A program never stopped Kirk.
He wasn't working with Galifreyan tech. Puny Federation.
Even the Doctor couldn't beat a no-win scenario.
(Of course, Kirk cheated when HE did, but still...)
Man never met a computer he didn't want to put out of commission. I'm beginning to think he was traumatized by computers when he was very young.
Probably kept losing at solitaire.
Shouldn't that be "In the beginning?"
I swear I fixed that typo before I posted. Then I come back and see it's messed up and I have to edit.
Maybe he met gzk ?
A sling shot?
One or three cards draw ?
Three card draw.