146 Comments

This sounds to me a lot like a case of: "Hey, guys, I screwed up but I supposedly learned from that and you can learn from me!" What it amounts to is a WILD variation on Jimmy Swaggart's "I have sinned against you" blather, but it's the same substance.

No one in the evangelical community will say so. I just did.

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

That may have been true even a few years ago but I am seeing that more and more evangelicals are no longer willing to swallow the "I repented and give me money" scam. We're finally waking up if only far too many decades have passed. One of the reasons I initially started supporting Hemant because no one else was highlighting the abuse but today even the Christian Post is doing it.

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You woke up some time ago, david. I have me doubts about your fellow evilgelicals.

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But are you doing anything about it, Mr Graf? Apart from commenting on an atheist blog making disapproving noises and being 'no longer willing to swallow...yadda, yadda' about evangelicals who sexually abuse within churches? I'm genuinely intersted to know.

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Human groups are terrible at policing their members. The police look the other way when their members behave poorly and criminally. I would be shocked if any group held their members to full account for their bad behavior. I expect religious groups to behave as all groups do when faced with a member’s bad behavior - marginalize the offending member and circle the wagons to protect group integrity and identity. If this perspective sounds hopeless well it is. Especially in counseling. A counselor must go through a rigorous analysis in order to identify if they are fit to counsel others. The phenomena of Transference - “Transference is a phenomenon in which one seems to direct feelings or desires related to an important figure in one’s life—such as a parent—toward someone who is not that person.” If a counselor is not prepared to deal with Transference they can end up damaging the client and themselves.

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I have helped both abused women and kids and spoken up in groups where I am a member and helped to educate other believers on the harm done by these abusers.

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I don't think the human race is waking up - or will ever wake up - from charismatic grifters. Every new generation must learn for itself about con artists. Buuuuut...as the religious demographics of the US (>3/4 of the population pretty religous) become more like the religious demographics of Europe (<10%), we might see the grifters move out of religion into other cons, other areas that are more popular. Faith healing's loss is homeopathy's gain.

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Naturopathy. Crystals. El Dorado (Atlantis.. insert lost city full of gold)

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You're right. Grifters go where the money is.

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RemovedJan 10·edited Jan 10
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As I've said elsewhere, he deserves a proper exposure to the criminal justice system, never mind some time in the pokey.

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It's interesting that he has Leviticus 19:28 tattooed on his arm. The English Standard Version of the bible says: You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.

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It was probably an ironic tattoo meant to imply, "Hey, I'm cool! I'm not like all those other pastors!"

Narrator: He was, in fact, like all those other pastors.

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But isn't ignoring all the bible verses that are inconvenient, exactly like all the other pastors. He's like a hipster who grows a beard to set himself apart from ever other hipster.

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Jan 10·edited Jan 11

Yeah probably, but his congregation is ok with him fragrantly disobeying one law, it gives him the freedom to disobey any other, including sex abuse. I guess he can be saved by asking forgiveness with no consideration for those that he harmed.

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If there is an upside to stories like this, it is that we're hearing about them now. For far too long society conspired to keep the misdeeds of the clergy buried. With every one of these revelations, organized religion's grip on our culture becomes a little weaker. The religious right is working hard to accomplish through the legislatures and courts what they have failed to achieve from their pulpits. These efforts are ultimately doomed to failure because the overwhelming majority of people simply do not want to be ruled by the preachers.

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There are 8 methods of making decisions (arriving at conclusions). In order of reliability:

(1) Logic (limited usefulness, and can’t say anything about the premises that go into it)

(2) Reason (the legal standard, heavily larded with considerations of the practical)

(3) Confidence (in things, based on their track record of previous performance)

(4) Trust (in people, based on THEIR track records, mitigated by varying motives and conditions)

(5) Chance (coin flips between reasonably evenly matched alternatives)

(6) Obedience (not necessarily the wisest or best for you, but at least you don’t get beat up)

(7) Hope (pretty unlikely, but one can always wish)

(8) Faith (deservedly last and least, arriving at a conclusion for which there is absolutely no supporting evidence and frequently a great deal of opposing evidence; nobody would use this terrible method of deciding if it weren’t for the priest class, which praises it to the skies and tries to conflate it with trust and confidence, because there’s no way anybody would ever believe all of their horseshit without it)

Note from the above analysis that TRUST has to be EARNED, whereas FAITH does not.

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Great comment!

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I'll do this in points:

I go to church once a year.

I'm gay.

I'm an atheist.

It's an LGBTQ-welcoming church.

The Unitarian church.

I go at Xmas.

I love the booming organ and carols.

I went, thanks to my mother and father, to a Catholic-run school. The nuns regularly beat us children for... everything from smiling too much to having too much difficulty writing the cursive alphabet. At eight, I was tied up in a chair by a nun, Sister Maria Gratia. They demanded I leave. I was the problem.

We left.

We joined the Anglicans.

We left.

We joined a Buddhist temple in a converted bowling alley.

We left.

We joined the Unitarians.

Our church minister was known as 'the only man who would marry Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor' in the Queen Elizabeth Hotel in Montreal.

In 1987 our church burned down thanks to a deranged member.

Two firefighters — Jean-Pierre Longpré and Pierre Letourneau — were killed, and several others were injured fighting the blaze.

Skiing became our religion.

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As an evilgelical, I can only say it was all downhill from there.

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Some people would cross the country to avoid skiing downhill.

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Cold and broken legs. I have other things to do. And pulling a sonny Bono isn't one of them

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I was trying to continue the pun thread. Cross country.

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I know. I'm sorry.😩😥😭😢

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If your Bono comment was a pun, I was too thick to spot it

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Jan 10·edited Jan 14

If loving the booming organ and carols gives people comfort, what's wrong with that? (TM)

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Jan 11·edited Jan 11

My minister father LOVED pipe organs. I'm pretty sure he took one pulpit because of the organ even though he was paid shit.

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If you have been abused by anybody, GO TO THE POLICE !

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Aside from the occasional reunion tour (last in 2008), they disbanded back in 1986. 😉

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Ouch. That Sting.

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I survived the break up. Took a few Summers to do it, though.

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It was kind of hard to Copeland....but it didn't Stewart over it.

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Good one, but it's a cheap trick.

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Come on, come on, get the critic on

It's pun night and it was too long

Gotta go there, fire my brain on

It's pun night and it was too long

Till I start one, I start one

No, I ain't got sass, I ain't got sass

But I got you, puny.

Puny, I don't need great skills to make puns tonight

I love cheap tricks

Puny, I don't need great skills to make puns tonight

I love cheap tricks

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Like the one they pulled on Bun E. Carlos.

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I had no idea. Sounds like a dirty deed.

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Done dirt cheap, too.

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But you don't have to put on the Red Light!

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You Roxanne !

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All those puns should be de-composed.

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Puns are just Doors to the Apocalypse.This is the end.

I'm out. You people are strange.

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Paranoia will destroy ya.

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I always feel like...somebody's watchin' meeeeee...

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𝐸𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑒

𝐴𝑛𝑑 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑚𝑜𝑣𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒

𝐸𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑏𝑜𝑛𝑑 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑘

𝐸𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑝 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑒

𝐼'𝑙𝑙 𝑏𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑡𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑦𝑜𝑢

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That's what Beethoven is doing right now--decomposing.

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Jan 11·edited Jan 11

Are we throwing you off your rhythm? Hitting sour notes?

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I have never relied on the rhythm method – it has a bad reputation.

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It was Debussy a long time ago.

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Bad reputation? I never worry about those...

https://youtu.be/nO6YL09T8Fw

Now THAT'S rhythm.

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Scott Bakula’s got rhythm.

https://youtu.be/dmEaPRVZCDw

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With a hat like that you ought to get a bowl of soup.

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🤮

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Oh, but it looks good on him.

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Not really. : )

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Gambling is illegal at Bushwood, sir. And I never slice.

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Wang! No offense.

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It’s pretty clear that any organization that has a problem with leadership committing these kinds of crimes, if it’s the one big guy at the top only, or that guy plus a few below him, the entire organization is rotten through and through. There hasn’t been a case where the head preacher was a sex offender and the organization he started, or ran as an authoritarian, was not corrupt as well. Bruxy Cavey likely started the church to provide him the means to carry out his criminal desires and therefore found an organization and folks to support it.

This goes for other types of corruption, look at the NRA and their current woes. LaPierre is getting all the attention, but he wasn’t the only one involved in the corruption and he wasn’t the first president to be corrupt in this way. The organization is setup to enable greedy trolls to enrich themselves. There’s even perfectly legal ways to enrich the president and he still had to go too far.

The problem with this church is almost an inherent problem with religion altogether. Leaders are given unlimited power with zero accountability and anyone who complains or questions are punished. The reputations of the leaders and churches are paramount and everything else is swept under the rug to protect the reputation.

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If only they go to the authorities of the right kind instead of going to church leaders, who turn a blind eye to such complaints every day.

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They don’t turn a blind eye.

They cover it up.

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So true.

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Yesterday, the NPR radio show, “On Point,” replayed a very *powerful* episode that *clearly* documented problems of sexual abuse coverups within the church of Latter Day Saints, and others (see link below). It involves a long interview with a *clearheaded* young woman, who suffered abuses at the hands of her father, who was a Bishop in the LDS church.

Also, as I recall, reports of such widespread abuses, came up in the News last year, about the Southern Baptist church, but I could be mistaken on that last point.

What Happens When Mormon Leaders Treat Child Sexual Abuse As A Sin, Not A Crimehttps://one.npr.org/i/629398142:629610013

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Variations on the RCC scam of shuffling priests around to avoid investigation and/or prosecution. A hammer needs to be dropped on both their houses. Problem is: apparently no one in authority has the guts to do it.

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And do tell me how evolution lead these evolution-denying preachers to commit such abuses against girls and women?

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"The entire church is the problem. That also means the people who still attend that church, and who grant it legitimacy, and who give it money are making it clear that they don’t give a damn about abuse victims either."

Well, yeah. Par for that course, really. This is how Christianity operates, regardless of denomination, location, or time period. That's why we see it so often; the abuse is baked into the system. This is the essential problem I have with anyone who says they want to change the church from within; specifically this abuse of power was always there and is intrinsic to the Christian faith, and cannot be removed from Christianity. To be completely frank about it, Christians believe this sort of abuse is right, since in their view, women aren't really people anyway.

This Cavey guy is being rewarded for his bad behavior, and using the suffering of those he abused to make money from a group of people who just don't understand (and probably don't care) why Cavey's actions are a problem. Until the public is willing to put a stop to such behavior and provide actual consequences for this sort of thing, we'll be seeing it over and over again.

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𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝐶𝑎𝑣𝑒𝑦 𝑔𝑢𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑓𝑜𝑟 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑏𝑎𝑑 𝑏𝑒ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑟...

𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗦!!!

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Well, temporarily rewarded I guess – I suppose it will help with his legal costs, which is egregious, but hopefully he will end up in jail.

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Abuse is a feature, not a bug. Sinners are defective and get whatever they deserve is the rule here. A redemption tour is just more conning of the simpletons warming the pews

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When I was young, I prayed to god for a bike. Then I found out that god doesn't work that way so I stole a bike then went to confession. All good!

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Emo lives!

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"The entire church is the problem. That also means the people who still attend that church, and who grant it legitimacy, and who give it money are making it clear that they don’t give a damn about abuse victims either."

Do we call this the trump syndrome, the Catholic Hierarchy deflection, or MAGAtry in a nutshell?

Emphasis on nut. Or Syn. Or def.

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Any church or organization that does not have strict policies in place to combat abuse is not something you want to be a part of.

Any church or organization that demands you report complaints of abuse to them before an outside authority is not safe.

Any church or organization that does not welcome the spotlight of outside accountability is asking to be a haven for predators.

Any group that demands you submit to their counseling instead of asking you and listening to what you need is not a group with your best interests at heart.

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A bit back, I replied to Whitney's comment, which stated that Cavey was being rewarded for his bad behavior. The blunt fact is that he's hardly alone. Jimmy Swaggart was rewarded for his bad behavior, as was Jim Bakker (in the final analysis), and probably too many other bible-thumpers to mention.

This is because their system is all about shame the prodigal, then welcome him back into the fold as though nothing happened and sweep everything under the rug. Makes me wonder if, at some level, they don't want to be reminded of their wrongdoing and will do everything in their power to pretend as though it never happened. As a result, incidents like this one continue to recur, because to them, it's a random and off-axis occurrence.

And because of that, they will NEVER – EVER – correct themselves or their behavior.

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UNLESS you are Gay, Trans and honest. Then you are to be stoned to death.

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According to Bob Dylan, *everybody* must get stoned.

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Definitely – according to Mickey Flanagan, "You want a cheeky little line Mick?" – "No thanks Gran."

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As we mentioned in another comment, there's no rule saying it must be theological OR human justice. Their god is perfectly capable of welcoming this prodigal son back into the flock of redeemed Christians, while he's in jail for his crimes.

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Add on "AI DEEPFAKE!"

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It's unlikely to be renamed now. :) And how in hell does a human civilization land on base 60? 10,20,21 I understand, but 60 is a new one.

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Not if you take into account 60 = 5 × 12 and Babylonians maths and calendar were based on the number 12.

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Don't understand how you land on base 12 either, though I know the Babylonians weren't the only ones to do so. I get how you get 12 hours as 15 degrees makes a visible separation on even a small circle. And 360 makes sense as it is divisible and close to the days in a year. But counting by 12s doesn't seem as logical as counting by 10s given the configuration of the human body. The History Channel guy would claim that's evidence of 'awiens'.

https://www.zentaur.org/memes/awiens.jpg

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12 is a simple number to divide by 2, 3, 4, so it was convenient that way. Whether or not that's a reason to base an entire numerical system on, I don't know.

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Yet our way to count time is on a base 12. Plus the metric system who is on a base 10 came quite late in our history.

Antenna man will have to learn what chronology means before I stop rolling on the floor laughing every time he opens his mouth 🤣

Edit : Egyptians had a calendar based on 12 too. 12 months of 30 days + 5 days.

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Well yeah the metric system was late. We were busy measuring things by the body parts of monarchs. :)

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

12 is convenient in everyday use, as you say. That might be the reason for the old UK currency having 12 pence = 1 shilling. There was also an old English coin valued at one third of a farthing (fourthing: quarter of a penny). Though possibly only for colonial use, no geographical limit is on the coin so giving a penny divided into twelve parts.

The larger problem is that there seems to be no historical single-digit character for 11. The use of X for ten in Roman numbers does not really count either. In duodecimal, 12 would be 10.

Finger counting for base 10 also seems logical. However. it is possible to count in dozens on a usual hand using the thumb to point to the three segments of each finger. If the dozens counted are transferred to the other hand then the total would be one gross (12 * 12) plus an extra dozen on the first hand: total = 156.

Of course, if you really want to go for high numbers, you can count to 1,023 (decimal) in binary on ten digits.

I have no evidence of these practices actually occurring in normal life.

Edit: misplaced ).

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