Blasphemy is speech that has been outlawed to prevent religion from losing arguments. I can understand the desire to avoid social disorder, but by coddling and enabling religious extremists, it only makes things worse in the long run. Religion is not entitled to a privileged and protected place in a free society. Religion needs to be able to defend their belief systems in the marketplace of ideas without resorting to violence to silence people they disagree with.
What is blasphemy in the first place? As a Christian I deny what is said in the Quran and the Talmud about Jesus. Am I being "blasphemous"? I cannot commit "blasphemy" if I criticize tenets of other faiths because I reject them outright. They do not apply to me. And I do not ask that anyone, including Muslims and Jews, accept tenets of my faith. People who do - regardless of faith - are a problem.
Blasphemy: Contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity.
You are a blasphemer because they think their religion applies to everyone.
I reject the notion of sin in your religion because I don't believe in your gods ( Christianity is polytheistic), yet I am considered a sinner by people of your faith.
The thing is, religionists rely on "holy" texts written at a time when little was known about science, so it's very difficult to argue with a believer, whatever the religion. They simply quote their texts, and since most of them have no basis in fact the discussion usually ends there.
By the standards of the modern world, the people who cobbled the Bible together didn't know much of anything. Their writings were shaped by the world of their era.
I don't think so, there's a little weasel word 'recognized' in the law, so it's probably perfectly legal to burn LeVey's Satanic Bible or the TSTs seven tenets.
It would also give any future extremist government a convenient dodge by simply revoking their official recognition of any religion they wanted to persecute. See? All completely legal!
Of course the TST would likely be the first ones to tell you that it's well within your rights to burn the seven tenets, but they wish you'd read them instead.
Apparently, Denmark hasn't figured out the fact that blasphemy is a victimless crime. Whether the object is the Quran, the Bible, or the Zend Avesta, IT'S JUST A BOOK WITH PAGES!!! No human being is harmed, no wound is inflicted, and the stupid book can be replaced or reprinted, frequently in the time it takes to talk about it.
This is part of the infantilization that happens with religious indoctrination. It elevates a THING over human beings and gives that thing privileges and priorities which should be ascribed to PEOPLE. Indeed, this is a massive step backward for the Danish, and I fully expect some serious civil disobedience regarding this ruling in the near future.
We are going through something here in the US which has the same roots. All over the country red states are passing laws to make it unsafe to be or talk about being gay. They are all being promulgated by evangelical christians who just cannot stand to have anyone thumb their nose at their religious sensitivities. Being 'woke' in Florida has essentially become a crime and they are dismantling their education system to make sure kids and young adults cannot be exposed to ideas they disapprove of. The people who promulgate or incite these laws have a pathological sense of right and wrong and they are willing to burn down modern civilization to keep other people from insulting their god. I just wonder why these all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, and yet, undetectable gods can't just defend themselves?
Normally, I try to stay on topic an relevant to Hemant's post, but I must admit to the fury I'm currently dealing with. What's going to happen here - and I cannot say how much I hope I'm wrong - is the court system is going to delay until the pregnancy comes to a 'natural' outcome. The mother's life may be in danger, her ability to conceive in the future is certainly in danger, but the AG of Texas has decided that this is a good text case and he knows more about it than the woman's doctors do. The AG has gone so far as to warn local hospitals that he'll go after them if they help this woman.
This has always been the problem with abortion bans: medicine from the judicial bench is deadly when people don't have time. The lawyers act like the wait is no big deal, and for them, it's not - but if you're the one in need of treatment, that wait can and has been fatal. While they wrangle a decision that suits them, they take up valuable time that this woman could have received medical care. Any doctor worth the title will tell you that most medical conditions respond better when they're caught and treated early, so waiting on the court system is not, in fact, reasonable in these matters.
Good luck to Kate Cox. This isn't something that she should have splashed all over the media, and I have no doubt this is painful for her. She's already got two kids, wants to have more, and is having to risk her fertility for some authoritarian jerk who thinks he knows medicine to get his rocks off.
That fetus is never going to become a baby; no amount of conservative meddling will change that. Mrs. Cox is already suffering complications; she's been to the ER several times- even so, pregnant she'll remain, because her 𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 have decided that her life has less value than a fetus which is doomed regardless of whether an abortion is performed or not. Here is some of the clearest proof that "pro-life" is, has always been, and will always be a lie.
I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I think we all knew this was coming. And it's only a matter of time before it happens again. And again. And again.
God may save it. Can't be bothered to save the living, breathing children dying at St. Jude CRH, but is definitely going to save this non-viable fetus.
It’s fucking outrageous. Paxton is very good at being a raging fuckwit at the expense of women. Texas is where common sense and decency in government goes to die.
Slight quibble: There is no 'if' here. She's already being harmed emotionally by being forced to carry a fetus that will never be a baby. The harm is already in progress.
"The burning of religious texts is disrespectful and hurtful..."
I'd call what is found in the pages within those religious texts disrespectful and hurtful. Those texts were certainly used to commit horrors against humankind. They still are to this day. What the fuck are the Danes tying to protect?
Møkk. I have been expecting this. Luckily Norway and Sweden seems to continue to allow people burning their own books. As we should. My Thor, this is frustrating.
When you outlaw something base only on the response that something would get, you are giving those that respond license to be more violent over less offense. Essentially the terrorists win.
It gets worse the more ground is conceded. Today it’s banning burning holy books over marches in the streets, tomorrow it’s drawing cartoons in a newspaper over an attack on a newspaper, then it’s whispering criticism to your family over bands of religious police gangs murdering people in their homes, or not wearing a hijab over acid attacks.
This law only serves to give the most extreme people cover to be more violent and intolerant.
I had occasion a few months ago to look up indecent exposure laws in Texas and Washington. Both it all seems to hinge on what the observer thought you were trying to accomplish with the nudity. Was it sexual or meant to be shocking or were just locked out with out clothes? After reading the law and some lawyers' comments, I'm still not clear if it's legal to not wear pants while checking the mail.
I have a friend that was on a jury for an indecent exposure case. They found him not guilty because he had hiding in an alley doing his pleasuring and didn’t realize people could see him from an upper story window.
Denmark's government is only centrist in US terms. In sane countries it would be considered so far to the right it would be verging on the openly national socialst governments of countries like Hungary, Italy or Israel.
My ex-father-in-law was a sternly conservative Missouri Synod Lutheran who believed that everything in the Bible, right down to the punctuation marks, were infallible truths. I knew it was pointless to discuss these things with him, but I did point out that the Bible had been translated into many languages, making it difficult to claim inerrancy. His reply to me was that if anything about the Bible was questioned, the entire structure [of Christianity] would come down. End of conversation. It supports oraxx's statement that blasphemy laws are there "to prevent religion from losing arguments."
Some time back, Thunderf00t burned a hard drive with a few thousand copies of the Quran on it. Somehow, I doubt there were a whole lot of Muslims who got bent about that.
What if a Dane goes to another country without blasphemy laws, burns the book on camera and returns to Denmark? The "crime" happened outside of Danish jurisdiction.
I am not 100% sure, but I believe to remember that it has to be written into the law specifically if it is done outside of the borders. As for Norway, raping children when in, say New Orleans, can get you prosecuted in Norway. But I am not really updated on this.
OT : it's what I feared but having it confirmed is hard "My name is X. I’m a very good friend of Jomicur in X, X, US.
I saw that you had written to Jomicur on November 2nd expressing your concern.
I am so sorry, but Jomicur passed away unexpectedly on October 21st. A terrible shock."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LIPc1cfS-oQ&pp=ygUJb2huZSBkaWNo
I lost a friend today
I don't know how I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
His absence bring a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to get it to go away
But I remember everything
What will I become?
My dearest friend
The Jomicur I knew is gone
In the end
And you have done so much
My emperor of snark
Never let us down
Never made us hurt
My heart is full of thorns
Weeping on my chair
I ferl like a broken doll
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
You will not disappear
You are forever lost
I'm still right here
What will I become ?
My dearest friend
The Jomicur I knew is gone
In the end
And you have done so much
My emperor of snark
Never let us down
Never made us hurt
If only I could see you again
Just for a minute
I would like to go back
I would find a way
Just hearing this now (December 29 2023). I'm so sorry. Jomicur was great, took me to task many a time, but did it with respect.
Damn. Jomicur was a terrific contributor here and will be sorely missed.
😭
Been away from the keyboard longer than I expected. Just seeing this.
I'm at a loss for words. Utter loss.
https://youtu.be/Dr6FiWxjYd4
Thanks for checking. A terrible shock indeed.
There are quite a number of songs in German with that title – that is the only appropriate one.
That... sucks. It simply, plainly, sucks.
I wish there was a heaven. He could be with books, hot men and his beloved cats.
Oh No. I'm so sorry. My condolences to Black Hole mourner and his other friends and family.
Shit.
And so it goes.......
So sad to hear this.
😭
Blasphemy is speech that has been outlawed to prevent religion from losing arguments. I can understand the desire to avoid social disorder, but by coddling and enabling religious extremists, it only makes things worse in the long run. Religion is not entitled to a privileged and protected place in a free society. Religion needs to be able to defend their belief systems in the marketplace of ideas without resorting to violence to silence people they disagree with.
With this law even a (ex-)muslim can't use this to critic his (ex-)religion.
Yes, that is the point I believe. It is frustrating.
What is blasphemy in the first place? As a Christian I deny what is said in the Quran and the Talmud about Jesus. Am I being "blasphemous"? I cannot commit "blasphemy" if I criticize tenets of other faiths because I reject them outright. They do not apply to me. And I do not ask that anyone, including Muslims and Jews, accept tenets of my faith. People who do - regardless of faith - are a problem.
Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
It is not a crime at all. If someone does not accept a faith, then they cannot "blaspheme" it. That religious belief is a nothing. A nullity.
It shouldn't be a crime, but it can get you arrested, and even executed in some places.
Blasphemy: Contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity.
You are a blasphemer because they think their religion applies to everyone.
I reject the notion of sin in your religion because I don't believe in your gods ( Christianity is polytheistic), yet I am considered a sinner by people of your faith.
I don't consider you anything but another person to be judged by the humanity of your actions. Have a nice day!
The thing is, religionists rely on "holy" texts written at a time when little was known about science, so it's very difficult to argue with a believer, whatever the religion. They simply quote their texts, and since most of them have no basis in fact the discussion usually ends there.
By the standards of the modern world, the people who cobbled the Bible together didn't know much of anything. Their writings were shaped by the world of their era.
Yep
Blasphemy laws: since God can't punish you for hurting his feelings, we have to.
So much for “all-powerful” and “omnipotent”.
So if I go to Denmark to burn mein kampf would I get punished ? After all it's an important book for nazillons.
I don't think so, there's a little weasel word 'recognized' in the law, so it's probably perfectly legal to burn LeVey's Satanic Bible or the TSTs seven tenets.
It would also give any future extremist government a convenient dodge by simply revoking their official recognition of any religion they wanted to persecute. See? All completely legal!
Of course the TST would likely be the first ones to tell you that it's well within your rights to burn the seven tenets, but they wish you'd read them instead.
...maybe just read them quickly in that case?
The TST is recognised as a religion, so by this law they are legally allowed to charge the burners under blasphemy.
Recognized by the IRS in the U.S., is it recognized in Denmark?
Apparently, Denmark hasn't figured out the fact that blasphemy is a victimless crime. Whether the object is the Quran, the Bible, or the Zend Avesta, IT'S JUST A BOOK WITH PAGES!!! No human being is harmed, no wound is inflicted, and the stupid book can be replaced or reprinted, frequently in the time it takes to talk about it.
This is part of the infantilization that happens with religious indoctrination. It elevates a THING over human beings and gives that thing privileges and priorities which should be ascribed to PEOPLE. Indeed, this is a massive step backward for the Danish, and I fully expect some serious civil disobedience regarding this ruling in the near future.
We are going through something here in the US which has the same roots. All over the country red states are passing laws to make it unsafe to be or talk about being gay. They are all being promulgated by evangelical christians who just cannot stand to have anyone thumb their nose at their religious sensitivities. Being 'woke' in Florida has essentially become a crime and they are dismantling their education system to make sure kids and young adults cannot be exposed to ideas they disapprove of. The people who promulgate or incite these laws have a pathological sense of right and wrong and they are willing to burn down modern civilization to keep other people from insulting their god. I just wonder why these all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, and yet, undetectable gods can't just defend themselves?
And if prayers worked, why are there diseases like cancer? And school shootings?
And failed exams. And speeding tickets. And incels.
And maths.
From what I gathered, you can ask in prayer but God can say NO. Also, you should have prayed harder.
And get right with jebus.
OT: So Texas has apparently decided that the pregnant person with a nonviable fetus can't have an abortion: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/09/texas-supreme-court-temporarily-blocks-woman-from-abortion-for-non-viable-pregnancy
Normally, I try to stay on topic an relevant to Hemant's post, but I must admit to the fury I'm currently dealing with. What's going to happen here - and I cannot say how much I hope I'm wrong - is the court system is going to delay until the pregnancy comes to a 'natural' outcome. The mother's life may be in danger, her ability to conceive in the future is certainly in danger, but the AG of Texas has decided that this is a good text case and he knows more about it than the woman's doctors do. The AG has gone so far as to warn local hospitals that he'll go after them if they help this woman.
This has always been the problem with abortion bans: medicine from the judicial bench is deadly when people don't have time. The lawyers act like the wait is no big deal, and for them, it's not - but if you're the one in need of treatment, that wait can and has been fatal. While they wrangle a decision that suits them, they take up valuable time that this woman could have received medical care. Any doctor worth the title will tell you that most medical conditions respond better when they're caught and treated early, so waiting on the court system is not, in fact, reasonable in these matters.
Good luck to Kate Cox. This isn't something that she should have splashed all over the media, and I have no doubt this is painful for her. She's already got two kids, wants to have more, and is having to risk her fertility for some authoritarian jerk who thinks he knows medicine to get his rocks off.
That fetus is never going to become a baby; no amount of conservative meddling will change that. Mrs. Cox is already suffering complications; she's been to the ER several times- even so, pregnant she'll remain, because her 𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 have decided that her life has less value than a fetus which is doomed regardless of whether an abortion is performed or not. Here is some of the clearest proof that "pro-life" is, has always been, and will always be a lie.
I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I think we all knew this was coming. And it's only a matter of time before it happens again. And again. And again.
God may save it. Can't be bothered to save the living, breathing children dying at St. Jude CRH, but is definitely going to save this non-viable fetus.
Oops, turned away to watch NFL and the fetus slipped away. Oh well, there's millions more.
Every time I read about Texas (or any state) denying a woman (or even a young girl) a needed abortion, I always react the following way:
https://imgur.com/a/xy6S9
𝐸𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑒 𝐼 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑇𝑒𝑥𝑎𝑠 (̵o̵r̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵ ̵s̵t̵a̵t̵e̵)̵ ̵d̵e̵n̵y̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵a̵ ̵w̵o̵m̵a̵n̵ ̵(̵o̵r̵ ̵e̵v̵e̵n̵ ̵a̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵n̵g̵ ̵g̵i̵r̵l̵)̵ ̵a̵ ̵n̵e̵e̵d̵e̵d̵ ̵a̵b̵o̵r̵t̵i̵o̵n̵,̵
Fixed that for you.
It’s fucking outrageous. Paxton is very good at being a raging fuckwit at the expense of women. Texas is where common sense and decency in government goes to die.
If Paxton is "pro-life," then I'm Megazor, future ruler of all Zann.
Fuck Texas.
Yahoo: "Dont' mess with Texas!"
Me: "Why would I waste the effort? It's already messed-up enough as it is."
I think I read somewhere that they prefer the term "slither".......
Slight quibble: There is no 'if' here. She's already being harmed emotionally by being forced to carry a fetus that will never be a baby. The harm is already in progress.
"The burning of religious texts is disrespectful and hurtful..."
I'd call what is found in the pages within those religious texts disrespectful and hurtful. Those texts were certainly used to commit horrors against humankind. They still are to this day. What the fuck are the Danes tying to protect?
Burning a religious text is only hurtful if the religious adherent is holding it while the burning takes place.
Møkk. I have been expecting this. Luckily Norway and Sweden seems to continue to allow people burning their own books. As we should. My Thor, this is frustrating.
When you outlaw something base only on the response that something would get, you are giving those that respond license to be more violent over less offense. Essentially the terrorists win.
It gets worse the more ground is conceded. Today it’s banning burning holy books over marches in the streets, tomorrow it’s drawing cartoons in a newspaper over an attack on a newspaper, then it’s whispering criticism to your family over bands of religious police gangs murdering people in their homes, or not wearing a hijab over acid attacks.
This law only serves to give the most extreme people cover to be more violent and intolerant.
"We're gonna make this thing illegal for 𝘺𝘰𝘶 to do because 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘦𝘭𝘴𝘦 might do a bad thing" is not a good basis for legislation.
Funny though, it is a basis of much legislation even outside of protecting religion. Modesty rules come to mind.
I had occasion a few months ago to look up indecent exposure laws in Texas and Washington. Both it all seems to hinge on what the observer thought you were trying to accomplish with the nudity. Was it sexual or meant to be shocking or were just locked out with out clothes? After reading the law and some lawyers' comments, I'm still not clear if it's legal to not wear pants while checking the mail.
Only one way to find out.
In both states, IIRC, you could end up on the sex offender's registry if convicted.
At out annual Pride Parades here, there is ample nudity, both male and female. No one is arrested or even bothered.
I have a friend that was on a jury for an indecent exposure case. They found him not guilty because he had hiding in an alley doing his pleasuring and didn’t realize people could see him from an upper story window.
Savonarole and what he started, however briefly, should be studied in public schools before college.
Denmark's government is only centrist in US terms. In sane countries it would be considered so far to the right it would be verging on the openly national socialst governments of countries like Hungary, Italy or Israel.
What I know about Denmark's government could fit on the head of a pin, but now your comment makes me want to learn more!
My ex-father-in-law was a sternly conservative Missouri Synod Lutheran who believed that everything in the Bible, right down to the punctuation marks, were infallible truths. I knew it was pointless to discuss these things with him, but I did point out that the Bible had been translated into many languages, making it difficult to claim inerrancy. His reply to me was that if anything about the Bible was questioned, the entire structure [of Christianity] would come down. End of conversation. It supports oraxx's statement that blasphemy laws are there "to prevent religion from losing arguments."
I was raised in that religion. My dad was a pastor in it. I can confirm everything in your comment.
Something is rotten in Denmark, indeed.
Suppose I smash a thumb drive or a CD that has “scripture” saved on it?
Some time back, Thunderf00t burned a hard drive with a few thousand copies of the Quran on it. Somehow, I doubt there were a whole lot of Muslims who got bent about that.
What if a Dane goes to another country without blasphemy laws, burns the book on camera and returns to Denmark? The "crime" happened outside of Danish jurisdiction.
I am not 100% sure, but I believe to remember that it has to be written into the law specifically if it is done outside of the borders. As for Norway, raping children when in, say New Orleans, can get you prosecuted in Norway. But I am not really updated on this.
What if someone from another country record the burning via a webcam and then put the video on Internet ?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sex-scandalized-gop-official-reportedly-050504761.html