The Covid-19 pandemic kept anyone with any sense away from churches and other gatherings. I think this had the effect of a lot of people coming to the realization the preachers need them far more than they ever needed the preachers. In spite of dwindling church attendance, the hard core evangelicals continue to delude themselves into believing if they can just get control of government, education, and the media, the people of this country will passively submit to their rule.
It's been a while getting here, but the fallout from 9/11, from the major reports of Catholic priest sexual child abuse, about similar abuse in evangelical churches, and the impact of the internet on religious belief is slowly but surely coming to fruition. People are beginning to recognize not just that religious organizations are not all sweetness and light, but that the dogmas and doctrines they espouse are at best problematic and at worst outright lies.
Now that I think about it, I rather wonder whether all the lies that Trump has spewed over his political career have made those who are at least somewhat open to skepticism more closely examine and perhaps reject not just his untruths but falsehoods in general, and whether that is further accelerating their departure from Sunday services. Strikes me as a distinct possibility.
In any case, this is good news and a trend well worthy of tracking for a while.
I read that article too. Amazing that the bishop did not excommunicate the predator priests, but readily excommunicated the victims family that left a congregation that was unsupportive to them. Defies justice and reason.
The reason being that powers that be don’t want anybody knowing what sleazebags are in their ranks. It’s more shocking that the congregation put up with this nonsense but that’s how brainwashing works.
Remember that Brazilian little girl who was raped by her step father and ended pregnant at 10 years old. The local bishop wanted to excommunicate the mother and the doctors who saved her life with an abortion.
And so you should, but it's hard to see excommunicating the parent defending their child after an assault by RCC priests as anything but an revenge attack.
The RCC has much to answer for. The fact it still stands after all these years - and moral atrocities - is one of the best arguments against a loving god I have ever seen.
I saw that in my New York Times feed this morning and forwarded it to Hemant. That goes so far beyond despicable that I'm not certain that words suffice!
One of the things I've said a few times about religion is that while I can't prove God does not exist, I can see much evidence that religion was invented by man. Simply the many different varieties of Christianity is enough for me to see that it is more likely that all of them are wrong other than just one being right. iow - I understand people believing, I just don't understand them going to church.
Gifted with the force, a bridge could have been saved, right? Maybe direct the damn ship or something, I dunno. But where it gets me, is how Christians still maintain where they are mentally during yet another like this. I have a kitchen cook for my job who stresses where she is religiously, and this woman just continues to simply whatever another day typically. While I know it's a commonplace thing everyone, these moments like these and prayer being the ultimate settlement with lives lost like so just. .agitates. Really does.
Absolutely it was created by draconian ancient men..... only a man would claim in the Bible that he was created in God's image. The arrogance and ignorance. And then later portray god as an actual white human with long gray hair and beard, white robe sitting on a pearly throne judging each dead soul. And white Jesus. And claim women are created from Adam's rib......b/c we are not real people. The list goes on and on.....
Back in the day, when the masses were illiterate and worked 24/7, the church was the most efficient means of inculcation and subordination. That tradition is slowly eroding--far too slowly because myths and superstitions are so pervasive and entrenched. You Can't Fix Stupid.
Even on that they were unable to agree. Aria wanted to go out very early (around 6 am) and before breakfast, Rhapsodie wanted to sleep until 7h30/8 am and have her breakfast first 😮💨
Younger people aren't going. Older people are dying off. This attendance shrink is inevitable. In my brother's church, the youngest typically in attendance is his daughter, who is 31. Most are 50+.
Now you see why they're so desperate to get a monopoly on violence so they can cling to temporal Earthly power because they have nothing of value to offer people.
Learned from a sadistic god who can only punish by eternal torture in hell. Now reading that some apologists are backing away from eternal punishment of pain and anguish, going with everlasting. This is just a silly play on words without meaning. It does in my mind show so9me desperation on their parts.
Burn in hell forever for skipping mass on Sunday? That is god's excuse for sadism?
He's a God. One who shook off the full force of an exploding star despite being weakened by his fights with both Hela and Thanos, a planet-destroying power stone explosion, a spaceship explosion and being in space for hours without breathing. A mere slap (or several) from Jane isn't exactly going to rock his world. :D
I would dispute the polling's finding regarding the increase in attendance at synagogues. With the exception of certain Orthodox Jewish denominations, membership at most synagogues has been shrinking for decades. Many have only a part-time or per diem rabbi on staff, and operate mainly as Jewish community centers. For the most part, what they offer is a gathering place for secular Jews, with a nod to their religious roots.
Maybe we should send our thoughts and prayers. Ha.
I've noticed locally in my denomination (Episcopal) that we have been receiving a lot of folks from non-affirming churches because we are intentionally affirming. We are not perfect, but many who still want to go to church are coming to us. I don't know whether that is true nationally, and it course it's anecdotally, so may not be accurate elsewhere.
I think belief in God can be harmful if you worship Republican Jesus, or if you're a Christian just so you won't go to hell. I know for me I want to follow the Jesus of the Gospels who died for going against things the MAGA crowd stand for, who changes me into a better person. Of course there are so many good people who aren't Christians.
So it's a good thing if it produces positive results, but that hasn't been happening for the most part. As an addict in recovery I was told that a higher power doesn't have to be God, although it is in my case, it can be the chair on the other side of the room because it's at least sober.
"Protestant" is a huge category that includes everything from right-wing SBC churches to left-wing UUAs (unitarians). From buggy-riding Quaker to assault rifle-toting evangelical. I'd love to see a further breakdown of the category - I suspect that "-4%" is hiding a lot of variation, with some denominations crashing out much faster while some (I'm thinking historically black protestant churches) maybe not moving the needle at all.
Another thing potentially hidden in that big category is church/denomination swapping. Who gained and who lost at the expense of each other.
In any event, Gallup's pretty good. They may have that data. I'll have to go look.
New Yorker mag did an article showing the kkkatlik church losing 6 people for each new one. In todasy's economy, who is baptizing kids when it requires a $100 "donation" to the priest?
The articlle appeared a couple yers ago. Crux magazine has reported huge drops in kkkatliks as young people stay away in droves. The average age of nuns in USA s 80+ and rapidly dying.
Assuming baptism is a service one wants, that is a great price and nothing anyone should complain about. You are renting out a building that could be up to the size of a city block. For probably an hour. Plus 1-2 "professionals" (i.e. the priests) whose labor you are getting. $100 is a freakin' bargain for that.
The Covid-19 pandemic kept anyone with any sense away from churches and other gatherings. I think this had the effect of a lot of people coming to the realization the preachers need them far more than they ever needed the preachers. In spite of dwindling church attendance, the hard core evangelicals continue to delude themselves into believing if they can just get control of government, education, and the media, the people of this country will passively submit to their rule.
How passive is a 12 Gauge and buckshot? Or a Glock?
Forget about that small-time stuff: how passive is a friggin' tomato to the kisser?
It's been a while getting here, but the fallout from 9/11, from the major reports of Catholic priest sexual child abuse, about similar abuse in evangelical churches, and the impact of the internet on religious belief is slowly but surely coming to fruition. People are beginning to recognize not just that religious organizations are not all sweetness and light, but that the dogmas and doctrines they espouse are at best problematic and at worst outright lies.
Now that I think about it, I rather wonder whether all the lies that Trump has spewed over his political career have made those who are at least somewhat open to skepticism more closely examine and perhaps reject not just his untruths but falsehoods in general, and whether that is further accelerating their departure from Sunday services. Strikes me as a distinct possibility.
In any case, this is good news and a trend well worthy of tracking for a while.
The internet has allowed people from all across the free-thought spectrum to realize they are not nearly as alone as they once thought.
Pre-CISE-ly!!!
posted late last night about the kkkatolik deacon whose kid was raped by a priest. He sued and got excommunicated for defending his boy.
I read that article too. Amazing that the bishop did not excommunicate the predator priests, but readily excommunicated the victims family that left a congregation that was unsupportive to them. Defies justice and reason.
The reason being that powers that be don’t want anybody knowing what sleazebags are in their ranks. It’s more shocking that the congregation put up with this nonsense but that’s how brainwashing works.
Remember that Brazilian little girl who was raped by her step father and ended pregnant at 10 years old. The local bishop wanted to excommunicate the mother and the doctors who saved her life with an abortion.
Yes, I remember that. It made me sick.
Of couse they did, they are all about punishing those who help others.
I walked away from the Catholic church over half a century ago, but I would take being excommunicated as a badge of honor.
And so you should, but it's hard to see excommunicating the parent defending their child after an assault by RCC priests as anything but an revenge attack.
The RCC has much to answer for. The fact it still stands after all these years - and moral atrocities - is one of the best arguments against a loving god I have ever seen.
I saw that in my New York Times feed this morning and forwarded it to Hemant. That goes so far beyond despicable that I'm not certain that words suffice!
One of the things I've said a few times about religion is that while I can't prove God does not exist, I can see much evidence that religion was invented by man. Simply the many different varieties of Christianity is enough for me to see that it is more likely that all of them are wrong other than just one being right. iow - I understand people believing, I just don't understand them going to church.
It's up to the believers to prove their claims. Rejecting their claims is not a counter-claim.
I believe “god” is in the soul of every living thing, plant or animal. Not sentient but still…
That's fine, I wanted to be a Jedi too (:
OTOH then you have to also accept that there is a DARK side.
On the gripping hand, there is no evidence of Soul, Force, or God.
Gifted with the force, a bridge could have been saved, right? Maybe direct the damn ship or something, I dunno. But where it gets me, is how Christians still maintain where they are mentally during yet another like this. I have a kitchen cook for my job who stresses where she is religiously, and this woman just continues to simply whatever another day typically. While I know it's a commonplace thing everyone, these moments like these and prayer being the ultimate settlement with lives lost like so just. .agitates. Really does.
I don’t disagree. That’s why it’s belief not fact right?
CozmoTheMagician was on in his beliefs, he does not deserve to be mocked.
Absolutely it was created by draconian ancient men..... only a man would claim in the Bible that he was created in God's image. The arrogance and ignorance. And then later portray god as an actual white human with long gray hair and beard, white robe sitting on a pearly throne judging each dead soul. And white Jesus. And claim women are created from Adam's rib......b/c we are not real people. The list goes on and on.....
Free coffee and donuts maybe?
I have the opposite take. I understand people going to church. I don’t understand them believing.
It's really very simple. If god is everywhere and all-knowing, who needs to assemble in a building/tent once a week?
It's a convenient way to collect the cash.
You have probably seen this from me before...
The main purposes of most religions are:
To collect money.
To control their members through fear.
To indoctrinate their children before they reach the age of reason (grooming?).
To intimidate or kill those who are not members.
And commit symbolic cannibalism.
Or if you were a Crusader during the First Crusade, you practiced actual cannibalism on dead Muslims.
And just for the “Halal” of it too.
Haram-ph ... dat's not nice! 😁
They do the last three in service to the first.
Of course!
Bingo!
Back in the day, when the masses were illiterate and worked 24/7, the church was the most efficient means of inculcation and subordination. That tradition is slowly eroding--far too slowly because myths and superstitions are so pervasive and entrenched. You Can't Fix Stupid.
Once upon a time, churches used to be built on hills overlooking towns/villages, letting the people below know who was in charge of their lives.
Now the plethora of cell phone towers tell us who is really in charge. Cells with plenty of bars comfort us now.
Which tower do you like better: the toilet bowl brush or the tampon?
I think they look like extraterrestrial machines. They creep me out.
Evidently the homeless every day of the week.
Funny how YHVH seems deaf and blind to their cries and needs.
Maybe he's busy watching out for sparrows falling. Or deciding who wins the Big Game.
56% of Americans discovered they liked having their Sundays free.
Sleeping in late, long leisurely breakfasts, non-religious outings, etc. What's not to like?
I don't go to church yet sleeping in was a pipe dream.
Puppies gotta pee!
Even on that they were unable to agree. Aria wanted to go out very early (around 6 am) and before breakfast, Rhapsodie wanted to sleep until 7h30/8 am and have her breakfast first 😮💨
Religion is the fentanyl of the masses.
You mean it kills a lot of people? You're not wrong!
An awesome way to hit home like this.
I go to church when they're repurposed as a brew pub or Mexican restaurant. Too many left vacant and taken over by nature(ironically)
Here’s a religious congregation that you may like : https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/17/nyregion/hudson-valley-bruderhof-community.html
Younger people aren't going. Older people are dying off. This attendance shrink is inevitable. In my brother's church, the youngest typically in attendance is his daughter, who is 31. Most are 50+.
The church of my childhood did 5 masses every Sunday morning. It is now a parking lot.
I think it was ee cumings who said the best thing about modern life is not going to church.
Bet those who no longer attend church are suddenly finding themselves better off financially.
A blessing!
Roughly 10% (at least!) better off!
Now you see why they're so desperate to get a monopoly on violence so they can cling to temporal Earthly power because they have nothing of value to offer people.
Learned from a sadistic god who can only punish by eternal torture in hell. Now reading that some apologists are backing away from eternal punishment of pain and anguish, going with everlasting. This is just a silly play on words without meaning. It does in my mind show so9me desperation on their parts.
Burn in hell forever for skipping mass on Sunday? That is god's excuse for sadism?
Maybe we'll stop having this debate over who has the strongest imaginary friend.
"Hulk is strongest there is!"
Reminds me of this observation about the Marvel Cinematic Universe:
Captain America. Met 2 gods face to face. Still a Christian.
Iron Man. Met 2 gods face to face. Still an atheist.
The Hulk. Met 2 gods face to face. Kicked the shit out of both of them.
And Bruce is both a scientist and an atheist. :)
I liked "Hobbes" from "Calvin and Hobbes" the best.
At least Hobbes in stuffed toy form exists outside of Calvin's imagination. :)
Yes, he does.
So does the Kite-Eating Tree and all the adults in "Peanuts."
However, in "Jump Start," the bullies are only shadows.
https://makeagif.com/i/RWnasG
Turn about is fair play...
https://youtu.be/qAeVlwRuP6Q?t=18
And Loki impersonation of a bowling ball is so good https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CpZakOJlRoY
Kinda their version of the Fastball Special used by Colossus and Wolverine.
https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/w176.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=943&dpr=1.5
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PRTyArPzE1w
What, he's not gonna say "Puny dog!" ;)
Even his allies...
https://imgur.com/gallery/mOWql1X
TBH Thor seems to be a punch/slap magnet
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rM-_aTXDvGA
Jane just likes slapping gods.
https://youtu.be/cdqmLUCwbMY?t=27
I would love to see an encounter between Mighty Jane and Loki.
He's a God. One who shook off the full force of an exploding star despite being weakened by his fights with both Hela and Thanos, a planet-destroying power stone explosion, a spaceship explosion and being in space for hours without breathing. A mere slap (or several) from Jane isn't exactly going to rock his world. :D
But only through madness.
Well, anger. The angrier he gets, the stronger he becomes.
Dude fell out of a S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier and survived.
If you can conceive an imaginary friend then this entity exists. - St. Anselm. Befriend a Tulpa today.
How about Jimmy Stewart's pal "Harvey the Pooka," the 6-foot-tall rabbit?
I would dispute the polling's finding regarding the increase in attendance at synagogues. With the exception of certain Orthodox Jewish denominations, membership at most synagogues has been shrinking for decades. Many have only a part-time or per diem rabbi on staff, and operate mainly as Jewish community centers. For the most part, what they offer is a gathering place for secular Jews, with a nod to their religious roots.
Maybe we should send our thoughts and prayers. Ha.
I've noticed locally in my denomination (Episcopal) that we have been receiving a lot of folks from non-affirming churches because we are intentionally affirming. We are not perfect, but many who still want to go to church are coming to us. I don't know whether that is true nationally, and it course it's anecdotally, so may not be accurate elsewhere.
I think belief in God can be harmful if you worship Republican Jesus, or if you're a Christian just so you won't go to hell. I know for me I want to follow the Jesus of the Gospels who died for going against things the MAGA crowd stand for, who changes me into a better person. Of course there are so many good people who aren't Christians.
So it's a good thing if it produces positive results, but that hasn't been happening for the most part. As an addict in recovery I was told that a higher power doesn't have to be God, although it is in my case, it can be the chair on the other side of the room because it's at least sober.
Why cats will never join a 12-step program:
Step 1: I acknowledge the existence of a higher authority.
I have two cats and can confirm this is true. Hahaha.
Maybe call your local church and tel them you hope jesus stays dead this time? I already called my local diocese and left a message after hours.
I am my own higher power that's why I could never do AA. Smart recovery.
OT: Got todays Wordle in 2!
Getting 4 correct letters on the first guess is a major help.
“Lucky” - Napoleon Dynamite
The y is correct, but in the wrong spot.
"Protestant" is a huge category that includes everything from right-wing SBC churches to left-wing UUAs (unitarians). From buggy-riding Quaker to assault rifle-toting evangelical. I'd love to see a further breakdown of the category - I suspect that "-4%" is hiding a lot of variation, with some denominations crashing out much faster while some (I'm thinking historically black protestant churches) maybe not moving the needle at all.
Another thing potentially hidden in that big category is church/denomination swapping. Who gained and who lost at the expense of each other.
In any event, Gallup's pretty good. They may have that data. I'll have to go look.
New Yorker mag did an article showing the kkkatlik church losing 6 people for each new one. In todasy's economy, who is baptizing kids when it requires a $100 "donation" to the priest?
The articlle appeared a couple yers ago. Crux magazine has reported huge drops in kkkatliks as young people stay away in droves. The average age of nuns in USA s 80+ and rapidly dying.
No more Sister Mary Elephant or Sister Rosetta Stone.Twill be a sad world. 😉
That reminds me. I need to take a trip to upstate New York. There's a nun's grave that I owe a good urinating.
Assuming baptism is a service one wants, that is a great price and nothing anyone should complain about. You are renting out a building that could be up to the size of a city block. For probably an hour. Plus 1-2 "professionals" (i.e. the priests) whose labor you are getting. $100 is a freakin' bargain for that.
If you like bargaining with the devil, sure.
Everything I've read on the issue says the mainline Protestant denominations are failing the fastest.
Good questions.