The last thing this country suffers from is a lack of religion. Christian apologists always see their religion as the solution to almost every problem, and yet it's hard to identify a single occasion when it ever has been. The more religious a society, the more intolerant, backward looking, and stagnant it becomes. Magical thinking never solved a single real-world problem.
Sorry, this is a long one, hopefully you’ll get something out of it.
There’s a parable about a monk who comes to a river and finds a drowning man. The monk pulls him from the river only to find another drowning man. The monk saves him and stays at the river to pull these people out, saving who he can and burying who he cannot save. When his leader comes to see how the monk is doing he suggested that the monk wasn’t using his time and energy properly , though he was compassionate. He suggests to the monk that he ought to have gone upstream to find out why there were so many people being washed away by the river and address the problem at its root.
Most folks think that this means that we should be dealing with mental health issues and kids who feel left out in regards to gun violence. And then the anti-gun control folks make excuses not to address those problems either. They also ignore that we can find folks who are willing to be violent and take their guns, domestic abuse is a huge red flag that we cannot acknowledge because taking their guns away would mean our police force would be decimated.
To go back to the parable and add my take, the monks walk upriver to find a group of folks taking away the safety rails, tearing out the bridges, and encouraging passersby to jump into the river, claiming it is their unequivocal right to do so and that everything wrong in their life will be better if they do. So the monks try to stop the group from sending these people to the river. Added my safety rails and safer bridges and finding better (real) solutions to people’s problems. But the group (who are politicians) beat them up, call them names, dehumanize them, tell everyone the monks are trying to destroy their river way of life. So the people start fighting the monks. All the while many many people go into the river, with no monk down the way to pull them out and refusing any help they might come across as a conspiracy to keep them from their river way of life despite actively drowning. Nothing gets done, no one gets saved, too many folks drown, and the group of politicians get rich from the corporations no one realized was paying them to shove people into the river for financial reasons (I don’t know why a corporation or lobby group would make money off people drowning in a river, but it doesn’t make sense that the NRA enables mass shootings and suicides and children accidentally shooting their siblings and parents).
The thing is, we need to keep saving people from the river, address the safety issues on the river and provide help to folks who feel like their only option is jumping in. Stop making it easy for folks to obtain guns, restricting law abiding folks will help keep the guns out of the criminal hands - many times the ease in purchasing guns allows criminals to get them without raising the red flags needed to stop the crimes. And most of the mass shooters would not raise a red flag as they are not yet criminals, but putting obstacles in their way could avert a tragedy. And as I mentioned above, there are a lot of folks who still qualify for guns that aren’t so law abiding, but being privileged lowers the like likelihood that they trigger a red flag. Gun control is like putting safety rails on the river. Mental health care and social safety nets can address the motivations for the violence, but that solution would entail totally revamping our healthcare system and probably making it single payer, which is socialism (really just a dog whistle for folks who are racist and don’t want people of color to get their basic human needs met). That’s building the bridges. Voting the GOP and bought and paid for democrats out of office will eliminate the group from talking folks into jumping in the river. Holding the NRA accountable for their immorality will help as well.
I like the analogy of putting safety rails on the river. Folks can still jump in if they desire, but they have to work harder and maybe that will deter some less able folks. It would also stop some from falling in.
For the record, I pretty much read anything you post here. I many not always agree entirely, but I read it and most often get something out of it. Don't sell yourself short, you've had some great posts that I've enjoyed considering and this one is no different. Thank you!
The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States says: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The Constitution demands that we well regulate our militias, even our militias-of-one.
claim well regulated meant, guns in well working order.....bullshit. Article 1 Section 8, goes into further detail on what the militia is. Not randoms with guns to oppose "tyranny".
If you want to get all textual there is Federalist #29
It is, therefore, with the most evident propriety, that the plan of the convention proposes to empower the Union "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, RESERVING TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY THE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS, AND THE AUTHORITY OF TRAINING THE MILITIA ACCORDING TO THE DISCIPLINE PRESCRIBED BY CONGRESS.''
<snip>
What reasonable cause of apprehension can be inferred from a power in the Union to prescribe regulations for the militia, and to command its services when necessary, while the particular States are to have the SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS?
Pretty neat little racket American Christians have figured out. They can make money all the way around the circuit- they sell the guns, they sell the hate that drives people to use the guns, then they sell the lies about the people who used the guns, to breed more hate against the victims of the people who used the guns, to get more people to buy more guns, and all the while they can also sell funeral services to the families of the victims of the people who used the guns!
Yeah, funny thing, that. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if believers like Burchett hear what they're saying or have the slightest idea of how it sounds to someone outside of their bubble. Oh, and as to that whole "freedom" thing, I'd refer him to the fictional newsman Will McAvoy and what he had to say on the topic in S1E1 of 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑁𝑒𝑤𝑠𝑟𝑜𝑜𝑚 (not that Burchett would listen). All this shows me is that the ONLY answer people like him have to mass shootings and the other issues that beset the US is more Jebus.
“it is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair.
He makes money from the NRA to not understand the gun problem. He gets re-elected for not understanding the religion problem. He will walk right up to the line of understanding and refuse to cross because he is wealthy because of these issues.
I disagree with the count for my country since it include terrorists attacks like Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan but the difference is abysmal. Must be the lack of christianity 🙄
The NRA doesn't donate a hell of a lot comparatively speaking. The gun manufacturers probably donate more – so I've been told. What the NRA does is keep people afraid, and get out the vote.
Anyone who wants to fire a 3-D printed gun, please give me a bit of notice so I can stand well back. It may well be that in the future guns will be printed commercially, but unless things have changed in the last few years, they are just a bit unreliable.
Anyway, how many of these shooters are Christians? It's a question that usually gets shoved behind race or ethnic group, but a perfectly valid one. Of course – by definition they won't be "true"™ Christians. Because they've done something wrong.
Revival means we put up a tent, play loud music and screaam JEEEEZZZZZUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZ as lo0ud as wed can. Oh, and drop a Benjamin or two in the donations box.
Perhaps we need to take a page from the Republican's book and push back in kind. The US is among the most Christian nations in the world but not as Christian as many South American countries. The US is also not the country with the most deaths by firearms. We often hear about how the US is more Christian and more violent than other 'first world' nations. While that may be true, it is worth a closer look into the other nations that are more Christian AND more violent. (Maybe not just Christianity too since bringing Middle Eastern and African countries into the mix may just prove the overall point.) But to push back against the idiots exclaiming we need more Jesus to make our violence go down we need to specifically point out that many of the more violent countries are actually MORE Christian. Look at South and Central America for countries with a higher rate of gun violence than the US. Most of them have Christianity rates of over 80 percent.
Every time they say there is a correlation between a lack of Jesus and gun deaths, we need to push back and say "no, there is a correlation between MORE Jesus and gun deaths". WE know correlation does not necessarily equal causation but those who lack basic logic skills clearly do not.
Back many years ago when I was still a Christian, I used to wonder how so many Christians reconciled their gun ownership with their alleged faith. Part of me misses that level of innocence in a way, but then reality steps in and reminds me that the majority of Christians never read their scripture so they don't actually have to reconcile anything at all.
It's going to be a long day with a lot of idiocy, I can tell already. Good luck to all of us.
Ah, yes, Freedumb, the most important thing the US produces. My libertarian brother in law refuses to even consider that it might mean anything other than him getting to do what he wants, sounds like he'd get along great with this other idiot. Maybe I can mail him to DC.
Burchett claims mass shootings are due to a lack of Christianity. Would he care to explain the mass shooting that occurred at Oikos University, a Christian College in Oakland, California. A shooting that left 7 dead and 3 wounded and whose perp was a former student (read: Christian).
I love(/s) this line of bullshit from the article. >The Christendom he speaks of restoring and defending is more a deluded vision of racial and cultural purity than anything spiritual. If nothing else, there is the minor theological detail that slaughtering civilians is rather at odds with Jesus Christ’s message of love and peace. Who cares whether Breivik considers himself a Christian? ?
===========================
Love and peace? WHAT kkkrist is this asshole talking abolut? Their mascot claims this but practices hatred with eternal damnation and torment.
The last thing this country suffers from is a lack of religion. Christian apologists always see their religion as the solution to almost every problem, and yet it's hard to identify a single occasion when it ever has been. The more religious a society, the more intolerant, backward looking, and stagnant it becomes. Magical thinking never solved a single real-world problem.
It's a "solution" to a problem THEY created.
Sorry, this is a long one, hopefully you’ll get something out of it.
There’s a parable about a monk who comes to a river and finds a drowning man. The monk pulls him from the river only to find another drowning man. The monk saves him and stays at the river to pull these people out, saving who he can and burying who he cannot save. When his leader comes to see how the monk is doing he suggested that the monk wasn’t using his time and energy properly , though he was compassionate. He suggests to the monk that he ought to have gone upstream to find out why there were so many people being washed away by the river and address the problem at its root.
Most folks think that this means that we should be dealing with mental health issues and kids who feel left out in regards to gun violence. And then the anti-gun control folks make excuses not to address those problems either. They also ignore that we can find folks who are willing to be violent and take their guns, domestic abuse is a huge red flag that we cannot acknowledge because taking their guns away would mean our police force would be decimated.
To go back to the parable and add my take, the monks walk upriver to find a group of folks taking away the safety rails, tearing out the bridges, and encouraging passersby to jump into the river, claiming it is their unequivocal right to do so and that everything wrong in their life will be better if they do. So the monks try to stop the group from sending these people to the river. Added my safety rails and safer bridges and finding better (real) solutions to people’s problems. But the group (who are politicians) beat them up, call them names, dehumanize them, tell everyone the monks are trying to destroy their river way of life. So the people start fighting the monks. All the while many many people go into the river, with no monk down the way to pull them out and refusing any help they might come across as a conspiracy to keep them from their river way of life despite actively drowning. Nothing gets done, no one gets saved, too many folks drown, and the group of politicians get rich from the corporations no one realized was paying them to shove people into the river for financial reasons (I don’t know why a corporation or lobby group would make money off people drowning in a river, but it doesn’t make sense that the NRA enables mass shootings and suicides and children accidentally shooting their siblings and parents).
The thing is, we need to keep saving people from the river, address the safety issues on the river and provide help to folks who feel like their only option is jumping in. Stop making it easy for folks to obtain guns, restricting law abiding folks will help keep the guns out of the criminal hands - many times the ease in purchasing guns allows criminals to get them without raising the red flags needed to stop the crimes. And most of the mass shooters would not raise a red flag as they are not yet criminals, but putting obstacles in their way could avert a tragedy. And as I mentioned above, there are a lot of folks who still qualify for guns that aren’t so law abiding, but being privileged lowers the like likelihood that they trigger a red flag. Gun control is like putting safety rails on the river. Mental health care and social safety nets can address the motivations for the violence, but that solution would entail totally revamping our healthcare system and probably making it single payer, which is socialism (really just a dog whistle for folks who are racist and don’t want people of color to get their basic human needs met). That’s building the bridges. Voting the GOP and bought and paid for democrats out of office will eliminate the group from talking folks into jumping in the river. Holding the NRA accountable for their immorality will help as well.
I like the analogy of putting safety rails on the river. Folks can still jump in if they desire, but they have to work harder and maybe that will deter some less able folks. It would also stop some from falling in.
ntl/reb
(not too long/read every bit)
For the record, I pretty much read anything you post here. I many not always agree entirely, but I read it and most often get something out of it. Don't sell yourself short, you've had some great posts that I've enjoyed considering and this one is no different. Thank you!
Here in Pinellas County, criminals get guns by stealing them from the unlocked cars of "responsible gun owners."
The NRA directly make money from gun sales which will always spike after every shooting.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Mass shootings? Need more Jesus. (My major donor, the NRA thinks so too.)
Climate change? Need more Jesus. (My major donors, oil and coal companies think so too.)
Racial inequality? Need more Jesus. (My major donors, white-dominated corporations think so too.)
Injustice for LGBTQ+ people? Need more Jesus. (My major donors, homophobic Christian organizations think so too.)
Extreme concentration of wealth for the very few? Need more Jesus. (My major donors, union-busting right-wing billionaires think so too.)
Corruption in Supreme Court Justices? Need more Jesus. (My major donors, deep-pocketed special interests who are in bed with them, think so too.)
Any societal problem at all? Need more Jesus. (Jesus' sacrifice is free, so no capitalists have to sacrifice a single penny of their profits.)
The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States says: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The Constitution demands that we well regulate our militias, even our militias-of-one.
I am with the forefathers on the Second Amendment. Have all the muskets, muzzle loaders, swords and sabers you want!
Does that include Super Sabers?
https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NASM-NASM2014-05484&max_w=1200
I had a gun “enthusiast” argue that well-regulated meant the opposite. That the government shouldn’t overstep in regulation. Boggles the mind.
They love to redefine "well regulated" to somehow mean not at all regulated.
claim well regulated meant, guns in well working order.....bullshit. Article 1 Section 8, goes into further detail on what the militia is. Not randoms with guns to oppose "tyranny".
𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐒𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝 𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐧𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐅𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐬
Their arguments had far less to do with today's debates than partisans think.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/02/22/what-the-second-amendment-really-meant-to-the-founders/
If you want to get all textual there is Federalist #29
It is, therefore, with the most evident propriety, that the plan of the convention proposes to empower the Union "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, RESERVING TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY THE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS, AND THE AUTHORITY OF TRAINING THE MILITIA ACCORDING TO THE DISCIPLINE PRESCRIBED BY CONGRESS.''
<snip>
What reasonable cause of apprehension can be inferred from a power in the Union to prescribe regulations for the militia, and to command its services when necessary, while the particular States are to have the SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS?
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-04-02-0186
A religion ran by a mass murderer is the solution to stop mass murders?
Pretty neat little racket American Christians have figured out. They can make money all the way around the circuit- they sell the guns, they sell the hate that drives people to use the guns, then they sell the lies about the people who used the guns, to breed more hate against the victims of the people who used the guns, to get more people to buy more guns, and all the while they can also sell funeral services to the families of the victims of the people who used the guns!
There are some problems in the world Christianity hasn't caused, but there are *no* problems it hasn't made worse.
𝐴𝐶𝑂𝑆𝑇𝐴: 𝑊𝑒𝑙𝑙, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑖𝑛 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑑𝑜𝑛'𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑠𝑠 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠.
𝐵𝑈𝑅𝐶𝐻𝐸𝑇𝑇: 𝑊𝑒𝑙𝑙, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑑𝑜𝑛'𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑒𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑑𝑜𝑛'𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎 𝑆𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡…
Yeah, funny thing, that. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if believers like Burchett hear what they're saying or have the slightest idea of how it sounds to someone outside of their bubble. Oh, and as to that whole "freedom" thing, I'd refer him to the fictional newsman Will McAvoy and what he had to say on the topic in S1E1 of 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑁𝑒𝑤𝑠𝑟𝑜𝑜𝑚 (not that Burchett would listen). All this shows me is that the ONLY answer people like him have to mass shootings and the other issues that beset the US is more Jebus.
PA-THE-TIC.
They are always *so* close to getting the point, but obviously lack the critical thinking skills to get the rest of the way.
“it is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair.
He makes money from the NRA to not understand the gun problem. He gets re-elected for not understanding the religion problem. He will walk right up to the line of understanding and refuse to cross because he is wealthy because of these issues.
https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country/#france
I disagree with the count for my country since it include terrorists attacks like Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan but the difference is abysmal. Must be the lack of christianity 🙄
Not sure where they're getting their numbers but we've had more than 101 mass shootings so far this year...
It might be a week or two behind.
Sure but it seemed to be claiming we've only had 101 *ever*. Which is insane.
Must be using a higher body count to classify a mass shooting than any other statistics do.
So, how much $$ does Burchett get from the NRA from time to time?
$1,000 directly and $18,000 indirectly.
https://data.tennessean.com/pro-gun-money/candidate/burchett-tim/h8tn02119/
The NRA doesn't donate a hell of a lot comparatively speaking. The gun manufacturers probably donate more – so I've been told. What the NRA does is keep people afraid, and get out the vote.
Anyone who wants to fire a 3-D printed gun, please give me a bit of notice so I can stand well back. It may well be that in the future guns will be printed commercially, but unless things have changed in the last few years, they are just a bit unreliable.
Anyway, how many of these shooters are Christians? It's a question that usually gets shoved behind race or ethnic group, but a perfectly valid one. Of course – by definition they won't be "true"™ Christians. Because they've done something wrong.
My son is trying to make one. Fortunately, it's a rubber band gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSMVflSBKx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLm_CVfzza8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6fKTWoIiT8
A 3D Saturday Night Special. He's damn lucky that round didn't travel backward or that gun explode in his hands/face.
If only that would happen to Wayne LaPierre.
Yes, and somebody said he's got big balls to pull the trigger again. My 1st thought was – yes and a small brain. At least the 1st guy did it properly.
Mister Saturday Night Special
Got a barrel that's white and plastic
That ain't good for nothin'
But puttin' men six feet in a hole
Why do they need a "revival"? It's not like they've ever gone away.
"Revival" is Christianese for "This time, we will do it right, for sure. Don't mind the last 2000 years of failures."
Revival means we put up a tent, play loud music and screaam JEEEEZZZZZUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZ as lo0ud as wed can. Oh, and drop a Benjamin or two in the donations box.
I've often wondered about the term "revival." Doesn't that indicate Christianity died?
And here no one told me.
Caught again. Fuck it.
Perhaps we need to take a page from the Republican's book and push back in kind. The US is among the most Christian nations in the world but not as Christian as many South American countries. The US is also not the country with the most deaths by firearms. We often hear about how the US is more Christian and more violent than other 'first world' nations. While that may be true, it is worth a closer look into the other nations that are more Christian AND more violent. (Maybe not just Christianity too since bringing Middle Eastern and African countries into the mix may just prove the overall point.) But to push back against the idiots exclaiming we need more Jesus to make our violence go down we need to specifically point out that many of the more violent countries are actually MORE Christian. Look at South and Central America for countries with a higher rate of gun violence than the US. Most of them have Christianity rates of over 80 percent.
Every time they say there is a correlation between a lack of Jesus and gun deaths, we need to push back and say "no, there is a correlation between MORE Jesus and gun deaths". WE know correlation does not necessarily equal causation but those who lack basic logic skills clearly do not.
You know their answer "it doesn't count, theses countries are the wrong kind of christians".
"That's different" is the battle cry of people who can't give a good reason why it's different.
Or the wrong kind of colour.
Back many years ago when I was still a Christian, I used to wonder how so many Christians reconciled their gun ownership with their alleged faith. Part of me misses that level of innocence in a way, but then reality steps in and reminds me that the majority of Christians never read their scripture so they don't actually have to reconcile anything at all.
It's going to be a long day with a lot of idiocy, I can tell already. Good luck to all of us.
Ah, yes, Freedumb, the most important thing the US produces. My libertarian brother in law refuses to even consider that it might mean anything other than him getting to do what he wants, sounds like he'd get along great with this other idiot. Maybe I can mail him to DC.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWCFzpxVQAAXu0h.jpg
Burchett claims mass shootings are due to a lack of Christianity. Would he care to explain the mass shooting that occurred at Oikos University, a Christian College in Oakland, California. A shooting that left 7 dead and 3 wounded and whose perp was a former student (read: Christian).
They are not REAL Christians.
Especially as Jesus told his followers to sell their cloaks and buy swords. He said nothing about guns.
Cloaks is a misspelling/translation error. It should say glocks.
what guns would Jesus be packing?
Pistol swords.
I'm not kidding. They're a real thing. Google "Pistol swords." Pirates used them.
https://workssanjose.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/prince_barbosa_gun-jesus-gold.jpg I think it would be something like this.
It'd be us dying for Jesus' sins.
I want someone to ask him about European countries.
I love(/s) this line of bullshit from the article. >The Christendom he speaks of restoring and defending is more a deluded vision of racial and cultural purity than anything spiritual. If nothing else, there is the minor theological detail that slaughtering civilians is rather at odds with Jesus Christ’s message of love and peace. Who cares whether Breivik considers himself a Christian? ?
===========================
Love and peace? WHAT kkkrist is this asshole talking abolut? Their mascot claims this but practices hatred with eternal damnation and torment.
Remember Anders Behring Breivik?
https://theweek.com/articles/482714/terrorism-anders-breivik-christian
I do. Mentioned this psycho a number of times over the years.
That was fake. The Democrats staged it. Blame Hilary Clinton, Obama and George Soros.