540 Comments

In case you didn't read my comment a few days ago-- NO WAY IN H AM I PAYING FOR A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL WITH MY HARD EARNED MONEY. Build your Christian and Catholic schools all you want Make the Parents of the Students Pay Tuition. Simple. Easy. And since this is only about making Christian converts of children? Reduce tuition or don't build your fing schools.

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You will pay, unless you join together with others to fight this. At present, it's legal. To me, it's theft of public money to support a specific, favored entity. This should NOT be legal, but it's down to citizens to oppose it. Nobody's going to do it for you. It's on you, and I wish you all success in the endeavor.

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How are you going to avoid it? Are you going to completely stop paying taxes?

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Well then either States must enforce Separation of Church and State and make churches pay fines who violate the separation and they would learn from that the first time since everybody knows parishioners look to other parishioners to give who dont Or do away with the separation all together.

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Which states are you referring to? I think some states do not allow taxpayer money to fund religious education, but many (most?) states do allow it.

Do away with separation of church and state? Yes, that is exactly what is happening. Soon the U.S. will be like a Christian version of Afghanistan.

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I live in Massachusetts. I never heard of tax payer paid for private Christian schools unless this is really a thing? Massachusetts enforces Separation of Church and State. Twenty years ago here in Boston with the Catholic Sexual Abuse crises we found out just how wonderful that was-- not good. I like the separation but not when it hurts our children.

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It may not be a thing in MA yet, but if ignored this shit will spread.

BTW, Spotlight was an excellent movie starring Michael Keaton, that portrayed the RCC in um, shall we say, less than a favorable light. The scandal in Boston sparked a movement that spread across the nation.

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Just wish Boston was the only place this happened. 20 years ago this was absolutely devastating. A lot of the film Spotlight is based on real conversations with priests. Now business as usual. Cardinal Sean did an okay job handling it but he closed churches and punished the parishioners more than the actual perpetrators. I don't believe any of those closed churches are affordable housing.

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It is definitely a thing in many other states, especially in the South and Midwest. I'd even say most other states.

Ellen, while you are fortunate to live in MA, a place where sanity governs (for now), don't think for a moment this shit won't swallow every state in the nation if these christofascists take over the federal government. Please, share this article with everyone you know. People in sane states need to be aware of what's going on elsewhere.

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Massachusetts doesn't have school vouchers, so you have so far dodged a bullet there. But...

(1) they do have voucher schools, which don't have to play by the same rules. I don't know if any of them are religious schools, you'd have to look that up yourself.

(2) As others point out, you aren't paying for it because your legislators haven't yet done the deed. But they legally can, and then you would. It's easy to say you'll 'never pay for it' when you live in a northeastern blue state which doesn't put tax money to it, IOW. But a lot of USAians don't have the privilege of living in such a state and can't afford to move states simply because some portion of their state tax dollars is going to a religious cause they don't support.

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Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Many states do it. It's called by several different names (e.g., "school vouchers"), and the process varies a little bit from state to state. They are all schemes for redirecting taxpayer funds away from public schools into private/religious schools.

I am willing to bet that your claim that "Massachusetts enforces Separation of Church and State" is stretching the truth. Yes, Massachusetts is one of the more liberal and secular states, but even it does not enforce 100% separation of church and state. I'm sure if you looked around you would find instances of prayers at city council/school board meetings, or pastors who endorse political candidates/parties from the pulpit, or public-school teachers who express pro-Christian bias in the classroom, or police officers and judges who would give preferential treatment to Christians over atheists or religious minorities, etc. Don't you use U.S. currency in Massachusetts? It all says "In God We Trust" on it. That's a violation of the separation of church and state that Massachusetts is allowing to occur.

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This needs to be restated:

𝑊ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑎 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑠 𝑔𝑜𝑜𝑑, 𝐼 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑡𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓; 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑖𝑡 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑡𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝐺𝑜𝑑 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑖𝑡, 𝑠𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑓𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑜𝑟𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑙 𝑝𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟, '𝑡𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑔𝑛, 𝐼 𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑟𝑒ℎ𝑒𝑛𝑑, 𝑜𝑓 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑏𝑎𝑑 𝑜𝑛𝑒.

-- Benjamin Franklin

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Franklin said this 244 years ago and it remains as relevant as ever.

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He understood religion, and its corruption, and proximity to power.

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This needs to be tattooed to their foreheads so they get the message every time they look in a mirror.

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But…but….tattoos are forbidden. What? Ignore that bit? Ok.

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When I lived in southwest Georgia, it seemed like 90% of the population had tattoos, many of them religious symbols (crosses, crown of thorns, That Damn Fish, etc.) or entire Bible verses. These weren't just a couple of tats - they were all over the body, arms, legs, chest, neck, faces. I'd see these folks in Walmart, with their poorly-dressed, dirty kids, and it always seemed odd that they couldn't buy decent clothes or shoes for their multiple progeny, but apparently they had plenty of money to support their local tattoo parlor.

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Sadly poor priorites is all too common, they always could find money for cigarettes too, which are damned expensive.

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There is one dumbass mentioned by Hemant somewhere on this blog who has the numbers of a babble verse tattooed on his arm. It's the verse who explicitly forbid tattoos.

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I remember reading about that dumbass! I doubt he would understand the concept of irony.

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Is a tattoo a graven image?

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It's literally engraved in the skin 😁

Cherry pick ! Cherry pick ! Cherry pick at its finest ! 🎶

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I thought it was, until I started seeing so many on God’s Favorite People.

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There does seem to be a correlation between lower SES and tattoos. Like you, I question their financial acumen/priorities. Of course, I work in the field of personal finance and I question all sorts of people’s financial priorities.

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Socio-economic status.

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Sorry for the jargon.

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I was saving* for mine, and I had to start all over again when one of my doggess got sick. They always were my priority.

* And I got rewarded for it, due to certain circumstances, I paid about half of what I should have paid for the same quality 😁

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I neither have nor want a tattoo. And don’t know a damn thing about tattooing. One day at the barber shop 2 barbers, who had LOTS of ink, were talking about the various tattoo artists in town. That’s how I learned that the artists charge by the hour, which makes sense. I’d never thought about it. Then they agreed that one artist, while he charged less per hour, was best avoided because he couldn’t do a straight line. And another artist, while technically skilled, didn’t bathe very often and was best avoided for that reason. It was one of the most interesting haircuts of my life.

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I think the root problem is the existence of private schools. The exist primarily so the "elite's" (billionaires) children don't have to go to school with the riff-raff.

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Add to that the rabid christianists who don't want their kids "tainted" by basic education. But apparently, "unschooling" is now a thing, resulting in kids who can't even read or write, or do basic arithmetic; three things that are absolutely necessary in today's society.

I think unschooling is child abuse, but what do I know.

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Not teaching a child the basics is child abuse

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Absolutely, they want their children to fail and be losers like them. Instead of wanting the best for them, as a good parent would.

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Ironically, these are the very kids who will end up on the much hated "welfare" or other public assistance as adults. If they don't end up homeless or in prison.

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Maybe in prison, they'll learn to read... /s

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Ironically, they’d be more likely to receive a proper education there.

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There was a discussion on FB about an “unschooler” mother. Someone in the comments was defending her, pointing out that maybe the kid has a learning disability.

My reply, then and forevermore, is and will always be: “The only learning disability that kid has is their mother.”

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I think what is called a learning "disability" is a learning *difference*, it's not that they can't learn, it's that the standard teaching methods don't work for them.

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Years ago there was an unschooler down the street who had a kid the same age as one of my sons. They moved when the kid was 7. He couldn’t read at all. Mom was unconcerned. I was aghast.

ETA: My bride just reminded me that the unschoolers moved somewhere where we had a friend who lived near them. At the age of 11, the kid still couldn’t read. Then they moved to Ohio and we lost track of them.

I still remember Mom haughtily telling me when her kid was 5 or 6 that he would learn to read when he was ready to.

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I learned to read before kindergarten with no particular instruction. Mom would read me these little kids' books and, over time, I started connecting words with letters. Now, I ain't no genius, and Mom would help me with letters and words, but yanno, she put in the effort. Learning to read in school was a piece of cake because I already had rudimentary skills.

But you can't just assume kids are going to pick it up by osmosis or something. And parents need to make an effort. Maybe they think reading to their kids is "schooling?" Or maybe they're just too lazy and uncaring to work with their kids at all.

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My experience was similar to yours. My sibs and I all could read before kindergarten because we were read to. I read to my kids every night. Not to teach them to read but because they loved it. And sure enough, they learned to read early on. I hadn’t thought about how an 11 year old who can’t read was likely not read to. That’s even more appalling.

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Do you remember a word that gave you grief?

I do... it was the word "cute." I knew "cut," but I couldn't figure out what that e at the end did. It was a 'D'oh!' moment when Mom explained it, lol.

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It is. Did you read the WaPo story from back when, that some religious home-schooled adults wanted to send their bright child to public school? And they realized they couldn't help her with homework, because they didn't know about anything she was being taught? So they started learning with her.

https://dianeravitch.net/2023/06/02/washington-post-home-schoolers-who-sent-their-children-to-public-school/

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Haven’t heard that.

I have heard of the unschooler who decided to sent her unschooled kid to school, and was 130% convinced that her kid (who cannot read) is far too advanced for the class.

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Let's not forget the segregation academies.

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It is a national tragedy what right wing Jesus pretenders are doing to public education

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Dismantling it to steal the money for themselves, has been on their agenda for decades.

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Conservative Christians are fighting a rear guard action and trying to achieve through the courts and legislatures what they have failed to accomplish from their pulpits. It is never the job of our secular government to backstop anybody's religion. I suspect these preachers would go out of their tiny little minds at the mere suggestion of the government subsidizing a non-Christian religious school. Neither churches nor their schools should get one cent of public money for any reason. There is no shortage of churches in this country, and if children want religious education, that is where they should get it.

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Then how shall they infect other people's kids with their creepy, bloody death cult and impose fear and guilt upon their little heads? I mean, that's the main reason they want to turn public schools into indoctrination centers in some states, isn't it?

MARS NEEDS WOMEN, and churches need fresh meat.

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Fewer and fewer people are showing up for church, and they're desperate to hold on before they become irrelevant.

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I reckon it'll get worse before it gets better. Eventually they will cross the same line the GOP seems to have crossed, and we, the people, will react en mass.

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The churches are being distilled down to the true believers who live in a world beyond the reach of facts and reason. It will get worse, but they won't win.

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I hope you are right, fanatics are fucking scary.

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Yes they are, but they are a shrinking minority. I look forward to the day they are reduced to the worshipers of Zeus.

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Hear, fucking hear!!!!

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Who do you think taught the GOP to cross those lines?

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BIPs*, and money in collection plates.

* Butts In Pews

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Key word in your comment: "should."

Of course, churches SHOULD not get one cent of public money. But they do. And they will continue to do so.

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OT: “I watched Sheldon sitting so proud in the White House when we gave Miriam the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That’s the highest award you can get as a civilian. It’s the equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor. But civilian version, it’s actually much better because everyone [who] gets the Congressional Medal of Honor, they're soldiers. They’re either in very bad shape because they’ve been hit so many times by bullets or they’re dead.” ~ Donald J. Trump, August 15, 2024

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-says-presidential-civilian-award-better-top-military-honor-whose-rcna166855

Fuck that guy, and fuck all who support him.

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"They're in very bad shape...."

They got that way fighting for our country, and protecting freedom for everyone. Even you, Cadet Bone Spurs.

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Guy gets 5 deferments (tying Cheney's record) to get out of serving in a combat zone (or serving, period) and has the gall to diminish/disparage those who HAVE served and even gave their lives in that service.

Don't think Donvict can stoop any lower? Just wait.

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For me, the lower point will be when veteran JD Vance supports the ridicule, putting lickspittle over service.

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I can't wait to see Walz tear Vance a new one. 😝

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Then this one might interest you:

𝐅𝐄𝐃 𝐔𝐏 𝐀𝐫𝐦𝐲 𝐕𝐞𝐭 𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐥𝐲 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐓𝐒 𝐃𝐎𝐖𝐍 𝐉𝐃 𝐕𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞

Patrick Murphy served as acting US Army Secretary under President Obama, and was Tim Walz’s roommate when both served as members of Congress. He and Ken discuss JD Vance’s baseless attacks on Walz’s military service, and why the Trump/Vance ticket seems to be flailing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKRe0NVE_yw

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When? He's been pushing it from jump. Fuck that lickspittle.

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Lest we forget that trump was upset that a disabled veteran was part of a Rose Garden ceremony whining and admonishing not to have such a person at future WH events because "it looks bad". There is no bottom to how low this douche will sink.

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Let's hope our veterans don't forget it this November. Despicable.

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There is no bottom.

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I have no doubt. I can hear the sound of jackhammers now.

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And not all of them are. Several years ago I got to meet local-boy-made-good Sergeant Sal Giunta, MoH recipient. Great guy, in decent shape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Giunta

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If Giunta ran for high office, Rethuglikkkans would Swift Boat him.

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Yet another example of Trump's brain rotting away before our eyes.

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He still has some left to rot?

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He had a brain at all?

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I mean, that’s the guy who called dead soldiers “losers”.

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And "suckers". Don't go short-changing me my adjectives, damn it!

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Said it before, will have to say it again: the only thing schoolchildren need to learn about the Bible is how horrible life was when the only thing people were allowed to learn about was the Bible.

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Interesting that in order to form a more Christian union, these folks are prepared to throw the Constitution that granted them freedom of religion under the bus. Imagine how they’d feel if the Constitution allowed Muslims or Buddhists or even atheists to do exactly what they are doing — using taxpayer money. Nothing is more pernicious than believing God loves you above all others.

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They all think that their sect will be the one calling the shots when they get the Christian theocracy they so crave.

𝘞𝘦 all know that the only thing keeping them from each others' throats is that, for now, they hate everyone else just 𝘴𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘭𝘺 more than each other.

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So, in other words, Christian leaders were told to 𝗩𝗜𝗢𝗟𝗔𝗧𝗘 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗦𝗧𝗜𝗧𝗨𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡 in order to promote their religion to kids. That's what the thrust of this whole business is, plain and simple.

'Nuff said.

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They're not violating the Constitution, they're just following the approved interpretation of the King James version of the Constitution as dictated directly by Jesus himself.

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But of course. That would probably work as an excuse. For their followers.

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I've often wondered if iron age people spoke the "King"s English.

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🎯Bullseye.

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I don't think we (the FA commentariat) needed more evidence to know that the Christian Nationalist/NSGOP goal is tgo make Christian indoctrination mandatory. But I do think that we (the American people) need to see every piece of evidence there is. Everyone, please share article this far and wide.

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Right now, 46% of American people support MAGA and the Krazy Kristian Krusade. Breeding and proselytizing more every day.

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Hemant and his supporters:

This well-written piece should be sent to every city or town representative in the American senate who watches taxpayer's money. Place on the envelope: FOR THE EYES ONLY OF SENATOR ______________ VERY IMPORTANT.

Perhaps for good measure: Did you know this is happening?

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A religious education leaves the student unprepared to deal with the real world.

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The selling point of vouchers is to make the tuition for private schools attainable for more families so they have more options for schools. Which we all know is a lie anyway, the reason for vouchers was, is, and always will be the defunding of public schools so we have an uneducated, illiterate population that is easily manipulated and exploited for the oligarchs. The reality of vouchers is the private schools are getting the voucher money and raising tuition simultaneously to satiate their greed and to continue to be discriminatory in admissions. Because the middle and lower classes will not be able to afford the tuition even with the vouchers, so they can deny people of color, or folks from the wrong side of the tracks, or kids with disabilities, admission without admitting they don’t want them because of who they are. They can just say they can’t pay for the school.

And yes, it has the added benefit of siphoning off any funds for the public schools.

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"School choice" was how it was presented in Florida, giving "options" to parents whose children were in failing public schools, by providing a means for those parents to give their kids a so-called "quality education" at a presumably much better private school. Additionally, parents of children in F-rated public schools were allowed to enroll their children in better public schools in another district, which had the effect of further draining money from struggling schools by reducing their student count.

The whole shit and shaboodle started under Gov. Jeb Bush, whose MO was dismantling everything his predecessor had accomplished in trying to improve public education. First he had his pet legislators pass a measure that would rate every public school in Florida on a scale from A to F, then they proposed withholding a portion of the F schools' funding as "punishment" to motivate that school to improve. IOW, publicly label them as failures, then deny them the resources to make any improvements. Under no circumstances were these fuckers going to spend any money to actually help public schools or improve public education altogether. No, public education was a failing morass of misspent funds and squandered resources according to these fuckers, and with so many publicly F-rated struggling schools, it was easy to convince a lot of people that any further funding was throwing good money after bad.

Now, it's been awhile since I was in Florida, but IIRC, vouchers were a much harder sell back then because there were still plenty of advocates calling them out for what they were - tax dollars going to private schools. Thus, vouchers got off to a somewhat delayed or slower start, but they were around. The main emphasis was "school choice" that allowed kids to attend schools out of their district district with ensuing added costs for transportation, and charter schools that began appearing on the landscape far more frequently, often taking over schools in poorer rural districts. A slow, steadily increasing drain ensued.

Florida schools have been shoved into decline for decades under GOP leadership. Yes, pay out millions in vouchers so families can "afford" quality education, because they sure as hell aren't going to pay that same amount to ensure a quality education in a public school.

In the interim, I've lost count of the many friends and acquaintances I know of who went into teaching, fought the good fight for as long as they could, then said "fuck this shit" and moved their families to another state.

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And the wealthy get their kid in for lower cost.

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"it's not about politics!"

No ? Then, why are you eliminating anything popular but contrary to your bigoted worldview instead of just stealing taxpayers money ?

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It's always about politics. Politics is the pathway to power and control, their ultimate goal. Liars for Jesus lying again. Must be a day ending in y.

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Power, control and MONEY!

All anyone needs to do to see where this is going is look at European history, which has a long track record of the incestuous relationship between kings and churches. It never ended well for the peasants, did it.

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And the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society are their lobbying arms.

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Yes voucher, charter, and homeschooling are all heads of the Hydra, designed by regressives to break public education and steal the funds.

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Yep. Cut off one head and three grow back.

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It is not a coincidence that "con man" and "conservative" both begin with "con." Add to that, such applicable and related terms as "constipated" and "commode" and you will better understand the relationship and what is involved.

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Con also mean idiot in French.

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Well, 'commode' is stretching it a bit, but I take your point. :)

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