I disagree that they would be good parents for children that are not LGBTQ. Children need to learn to get along with others, not decide that anyone different is someone to hate.
They would be for another reason. They probably follow strict gender roles. A girl who likes pants and toy cars or a boy dolls wouldn't be happy with them.
Long hair for boys is a bigger no-no. That gets a much more judgemental attitude, though short hair for girls is often tut-tut'd I'm not aware of it ever being a reason to deny someone a job.
I’m not a fan for the most part, but I’d never judge his ability by his hairstyle. Below his shoulder blades or spiked 10 inches above his head, colored lime green, still tells me little about him.
People who are impressed by the hairstyle or clothes of a person are not usually worth impressing.
If they keep it clean, yes, here are some douchebros with greasy long-hair and old testament shaggy prophet beards (like those gross "duck Dynasty (so-called) reality TV people. They are not sexy.
You are not alone. Oraxx can't upvote comments either. Some of us couldn't for a couple of days but got it back. And then there is NOGODZ who can upvote comments only on his library computers or on the "like" page in any commenter's profile as long as they liked it too 🤪
People who see their religion as the answer to every question are almost always completely oblivious to the horrors that have been justified in the name of religion. It is NEVER the job of our secular government to backstop anyone's religion.
"People who see their religion as the answer to every question are almost always completely oblivious to the horrors that have been justified in the name of religion. "
That may or may not be true for long. Since the Evangelical Movement took over the GOP, and both groups have embraced fascism, it increasingly seems like cruelty and suffering are their goals. One can't look at MTG and think she's anything but a bloodthirsty monster.
And if a foster family said "our religion does not recognize drug addition as a medical problem, and we will not take our child to addiction services," then the decision to deny them foster parent responsibilities would be cut and dried.
Now, the analogy has issues. I don't want to imply being gay is like drug addiction. But in terms of (foster) parental responsibilities to deliver state services, the analogy holds: the state is rejecting these people because they refuse to provide a social service or support to their foster kids that the state says the foster kids should get. Religion may explain their refusal, but it does not excuse it.
"she used to have “same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria'“ but “eventually grew out of her discomfort.” (It’s not clearly if she’s confusing that with being a proverbial “tomboy.”
For me as a former tomboy, it is, she probably grew up in a family with severe restrictions on what genders are allowed or not to do. Was I jealous of the boys ? Yes. Did I have a preference for boys labelled toys* and activities* ? Yes. Did I thought myself as born with the wrong body ? No.
These fundies families are hypocrites. When there was talk of gay families adopting or fostering children, they were the first to say "No one is entitled to have children".
It was obvious to me at an early age that my mom preferred my brother, so i tried to be more boy-like. By the time I became a teenager my mom had emotionally abandoned me so I didn't have a lot of nurturing through the years when I might have become more feminine.
I'm biologically and sexually female, but I still prefer to dress more masculine. Why? Because it is a hell of a lot more comfortable.
12 years of boardschool where I couldn't let my hair grow lower than my shoulders because of lice. Once I got out, the first thing I did was to let them grow like when I was 4 years old. I had to cut them last year but before that I had to be careful when sitting. I should have this length back in a little over a year :)
"It was obvious to me at an early age that my mom preferred my brother"
From what I can tell, Christianity does a real number on relationships between mothers and daughters by preferencing men in every situation. I had a similar experience, and it took me years to figure out what went wrong and understand that my mother was in too deep and refused to even attempt to try and have any kind of relationship with. You are by no means alone, and aren't responsible for the way your mother treated you.
Oh, and yes, I'm also biologically and sexually female, and prefer pants for the same reason.
I think they have forced that into society, because I know many women who favored their sons, over their daughters, one is my sister, with no religion involved.
Yeah, Hemant's parenthetical confused me too. Same sex romantic attraction isn't the same thing as wanting to be active in sports or wear pants. I think if you feel it, then no that's not simply 'being a tomboy'. Our (boy) kid liked a bunch of "girl" toys and activities when we was young, but he's always gotten puppy love/crushed on girls. The two things (lifestyle choice, romantic attraction) are, at least in my limited parental experience, different and separable.
I think what Hemant was saying is the rightwing anti-trans people are conflating being a tomboy with being a transman. I have seen them publicly talk about when they were kids they wanted to be boys because the boys got to do the stuff they liked, so they were tomboys but as they grew up they found they were feminine. It is an intentional misinformation from the right, per usual, to argue that transmen are not real. We know the situations are not the same, but the right doesn't care.
I hear you, it's also possible she confused finding some girls pretty with same sex attraction. I was able to difference the two but I didn't grew up in an evilgelical family.
DM's maternal family was never big on the gendered toys things, she had a younger cousin who loved to play with her dolls, when his parents knew, they simply bought him dolls and a mini stroller. In the 50's :)
Personally, I would bet her story is just plain lying. Evangelical fundies love them their "I once was lost, but now am found" stories. It's like it gives them social cred in their tribe to claim that before they found Jesus they were a drug addicted gay animal abusing Nickleback fan. And on top of that, in this case her attempt to show empathy gets her something she wants (i.e. acceptance as a foster parent). So nope, not really believing it. Have internet-heard too many "before I found Jesus, I too was a...." testimonials to take them at face value.
This lady is making up a story as if she was at one point lesbian (or contemplating her sexual orientation)....... but she turned to god and miraculously became straight, met a nice christian boy, got married, had kids....."Praise jesus, see if I can do it, anyone can"
I got news for her, if she is sexually attracted to women, it wont go away, she's just not acting on it, assuming she's telling the truth which I doubt.
My kids played with both boy and girl toys, I never made a point about whatever they liked. Daughter loved wearing her Sponge Bob boy swim trunks with a girl bathing suit top. Son loved playing dress up with his sister. They both displayed their masculine and feminine sides. And both wear long hair (though son has a beard).
Yes! I remember my entire childhood being circumscribed by “girls don’t do that”. But girls DID do ALL the things I wanted to do - be a doctor not a nurse or teacher, etc. so many curiosities to explore but every effort thwarted by neo-Edwardian, Victorian sensibilities embedded in my family of origin. And of course, that all coalesced into “Republicanism” being championed by my bitter, resentful, unhappy father - domineering & abusive to everyone in his orbit.
There's the TL;DR summary of this entire article, never mind of too much of evangelical Christianity. It could also be mentioned that the brand of Christianity practiced by the Wuoti and Gantt families either gave rise to their bigotry or it was their bigotry which attracted them to a specific church. In this case, causation isn't the issue here.
The issue is a failure to be able to deal with those who are DIFFERENT.
Actually, the real issue IMO is that people who take in children like this appear to be primarily motivated for the income stream provided. Therefore, the real lawsuit should be something like: The State of Vermont is interfering with my “God Given Right” to express who I am and make the government tithings as I’m entitled to make.
Then the government replies we are a country of man made laws …….
Couple responds we are a Christian Nation.
And the dialectic continues on to ad nauseam which is promoted by BigPharm which has the best Medicine at $399.99 per pill. . .
More proselytizing as foster parents, forcing the children to conform to their religious beliefs. There are some clues in the article, when they said they share their love of god, if the child wants to hear it, being pastors and such. Do you really think that a Jewish or Muslim child would be excused from weekly church services? Or even, heaven forfend, an atheist?
Personally, I would go with a mix of money, proselytizing and virtue signalling, in that order.
That, and grabbing the money with both hands! The religious people who took in wards of the state, as they were called then, used them as slaves to do manual labor. I doubt much has changed.
Doing it for the money does not require or demand that you to act like an authoritarian jerk towards your foster charges. Your kids disagreeing with you is a common - ubiquitous - part of parenthood. Doesn't matter if you're parenting for love or money or both, how you handle that is entirely your call. If they fostered for the money but made the right call, I'd have no problem with it. And if they fostered out of sincere empathy and made the wrong call, then I have a problem with it.
I certainly understand your position in an idealistic, logical world. However, based upon my experience of humanity, the motivation behind the why something is done affects how something is done.
OK - explain to me how they rationalize ramming their religion down the throats of kids who may have come from a different religious or no religious tradition? The whole problem with reichwing religionists is that they demand that all of society acquiesce to their worldview. I'll just bet these people provide an abusive environment for any kids who won't conform. I would point out that you cannot hammer a square peg into a round hole. There will be damage. The only people for whom there is a choice are Bi people. They can abandon and supress their same sex desires - and likely live Thoreau's lives of quiet desperation. And, the ultra-straight people point to them and say "See, it works" - with no comprehension of how damaged these people can be. (Edit - changed is to are.)
These people likely abuse all their fosters, because simply being in the system means there is something wrong with them, and any defiance they show will likely be problematic to the couples. They are waving their red flags in regards to LGBTQ children, but they have plenty of other flags they are better at hiding.
These kids come into the foster home system damaged - either from broken homes or loss of parents with no family willing to step in and care for them. Taking them in can disrupt a largely stable family (personal experience). Being taken in by authoritarian foster parents will just damage the kids more.
It's pretty clear that it isn't the state but these two militant christian couples who are 'putting their ideological agenda ahead of the welfare of suffering children.' Also, both fathers are pastors, which is a red flashing light for potential physical and sexual abuse of children.
Another thing that's pretty clear is that Katy Wouti doesn't know what gender dysphoria really means. And if she was sexually attracted to girls in her youth, she probably still is. Sexual orientation doesn't change because you refuse to acknowledge it as an adult.
I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that ADF recruited these couples for the explicit purpose of suing the state and getting the foster care rules changed to their liking, just as they did with the phony wedding website designer who never had any gay clients.
Just imagine what would happen - and how these very people would react - if a gay couple said they refused to teach their foster kids about religion or take them to religious activities. These people would go ballistic.
As I discussed earlier with ericc, if the woman who claimed to have same sex attraction and gender dysphoria is telling the truth, she may not know the difference with between being a tomboy* and finding some girls pretty*, and actual SSA and GD.
* I was and I did. The only time I kissed a girl, I was 18 months years old and too young to understand the difference between girls and boys. DM still laugh about it 🤣
She said in her lawsuit she 'understood what they were going through because she used to have “same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria'“ but “eventually grew out of her discomfort.' It's possible she was young enough not to understand what SSA was, but it sounds like she was certainly old enough to feel it.
I'd say it's a toss-up: 50/50 chance she's either still lesbian but closeted, or she's bullshitting to boost her 'credibility' for this lawsuit.
I dabbled with Pentecostals in the 80s. I was amazed at how people always topped each other's stories of decadence before they were "saved". It was truly a matter of "first liar doesn't stand a chance"!
To be honest, I would bet on the bullshit for credibility. It's like the preacher stories about debating atheists, or how they were hardcore addicts but came to the lord, or even growing back limbs or coming back from the dead, there's never any way to confirm the stories. No medical records, no corroborating alibis, just pure claims pulled straight outta sphincter. I doubt she was even remotely tomboyish.
The hardcore addicts become fire and brimstone preachers. My visiting mormon nurse is one. At least 12 step groups prevent that sort of shit. All they did was substitute drugs with forcing god on people.
"In 2021, in Fulton, the city of Philadelphia was forced to honor its contract with Catholic Social Services (CSS) despite the group’s refusal to work with same-sex couples. Even though the Catholic group actively discriminated against LGBTQ people, the city couldn’t cut ties with them."
This right here. This. This is the game, the whole purpose of the ADF involvement and why the parents are suing. Because they want the Christian privilege of access to other people's children to convert them to Christianity, but they do not want anyone else to be able to improve these children's lives. It isn't only LGBTQ foster parents that are being rejected, it's Jewish families, it's black families, it's other types of Christian families (the ones that do accept LGBTQ people for who they are). We've seen the stories, and they have included other religions and demographics. We've also seen the stories of adoptive and foster parents who rehome their charges without the involvement of the state, or who have utilized the monstrous book "Train Up a Child" and the children ended up being physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by their Pastor foster care givers.
The Christians claim even exposing children to LGBTQ people is abuse, which is a lie and part of their tactics to dehumanize and eliminate as many LGBTQ people as possible. It is genocide. So they get to define the terms of who is qualified to care for children. But we see all the time that it is not the LGBTQ people who are actually abusing the kids. Catholic churches are ripe with priests accused of molesting children, Youth Pastor is synonymous with creepy men preying on youth, every sect of Christianity, including the red-headed step children, LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses, have systemic issues with just sexual abuse of children. Not to mention the idea of spare the rod, spoil the child leads to physical abuse. We've got parents seeking out Christian discipline guidance that is simply beat your children starting before they can roll over, turning into nightmares for large families like the Turpins. Is that an extreme? Perhaps, but learning about history, it is only rare in modern times where we do look into family dynamics, my father in law had double digit siblings and they were treated much the same way as the Turpins and no one cared because their neighbors were the same and so were their neighbors. Hell, my mother raised her siblings and the lack of parenting from her parents caused her siblings to be abusive to each other, in all the ways. There was no CPS to protect them, there was no need, because that was just how it was. And they were all Catholic, or Christian in general.
We should be discriminatory in regards to placing children in foster care, that is why there are standards. We cannot just throw the children at people without looking at whether they will care for them. Personally, I would think twice about placing children with preacher families, or super religious folks, because from what we see here and my past experiences with fundies, the more devout a person gets, the more abusive they act. (with only few exceptions) And, when a couple announces that they would not accept a child for who they are, they are saying point blank that they do not care about those children, they are telling you who they are, listen to them.
The very fact that they went directly to the so called and so misnamed alliance defending freedom says everything that needs to be said about these two couples. There is no right to be a foster parent. None whatsoever
They literally say that Trans people don't exist. So a trans child who got stuck with them as foster parents, would have to live with people constantly telling them that their existence and identity are wrong... that's despicable! And it's not just a Christian thing; what about all the Christian families who aren't horrible bigots? Ugh, this is so dumb! If you don't like/believe LGBTQ+ people; why do you want to be able to foster LGBTQ+ children? They're trying to get a legal right to treat children like s%it and spread their bigotry even wider 😡
They probably also say that gay people don't exist and that atheists don't exist, because that's how fascists cope with the presence of people whose existence they find offensive. That's why they tell each other that their brethren fascists are the "real Americans," "real Christians," and "real Republicans."
And people tell me how the majority of the public is behind LGBTQ rights. I'm not seeing the outrage form John Q. Public. I'm seeing a lot of shoulder-shrugging "What can I do?" instead of voting and pressuring their representatives. We're being used to generate panic to distract people from the robber barons stealing the briefs from their loins.
"“Vermont’s foster-care system is in crisis: There aren’t enough families to care for vulnerable kids and children born with drug dependencies have nowhere to call home. Yet Vermont is putting its ideological agenda ahead of the needs of these suffering kids,” said ADF Legal Counsel Johannes Widmalm-Delphonse."
So, children that are not safe in their homes with their biological parents because they are LGBTQ children are supposed to go into foster families that are not safe for them either because they are LGBTQ, because there aren't enough homes for them to go to? Out of the frying pan and into the fire, as it were.
The question is really, why are these people looking to foster children? What is their motivation? Because it clearly is not the well being of the children. It seems more that it is to massage their egos and push their religion on vulnerable children. But that's just my observation.
"Ideological," eh? Looked in a mirror lately, ADF?!? Your reductive treatment of human sexuality has likely caused far more harm, than Vermont's far more accepting attitude.
Pretty good, I'm having fun. The show is next week, and I am going to be away for three days. It's not too bad though, because my parts are so small. I have my lines memorized and I am getting to be more fluid in reciting them. I will be practicing while I'm away so I don't slip.
Next thing you know, you will be seeing me everywhere! I'll be the next Kathy Bates. Or, I will do more community theater as I have the opportunity.
Plus the egregious overstatement that Vermont is in crisis which they are not. California and Texas have the most children in foster care.
On a per 100,00 residents bases the worst states are montana, West virginia, Alaska. Their comment about Vermont being in a crisis is complete gaslighting.
I disagree that they would be good parents for children that are not LGBTQ. Children need to learn to get along with others, not decide that anyone different is someone to hate.
Teaching hate isn't being a positive role model, and may be considered abuse.
They would be for another reason. They probably follow strict gender roles. A girl who likes pants and toy cars or a boy dolls wouldn't be happy with them.
You are back! No post deleted! And your real name!
Yep, thanks to Hemant support and insistence to contact subpar immoderation every time an account was banned.
If I had any intention to leave, I would have done when Hemant was kicked out of patheticos.
Or short hair for girls!
Long hair for boys is a bigger no-no. That gets a much more judgemental attitude, though short hair for girls is often tut-tut'd I'm not aware of it ever being a reason to deny someone a job.
Funnily enough, their idol Jesus is ALWAYS depicted with long hair. No exceptions.
For me, long hair is sexy for a man.
https://www.zentaur.org/memes/long_haired_freaky_people.jpg
I’m not a fan for the most part, but I’d never judge his ability by his hairstyle. Below his shoulder blades or spiked 10 inches above his head, colored lime green, still tells me little about him.
People who are impressed by the hairstyle or clothes of a person are not usually worth impressing.
If they keep it clean, yes, here are some douchebros with greasy long-hair and old testament shaggy prophet beards (like those gross "duck Dynasty (so-called) reality TV people. They are not sexy.
They’re “action figures”!
🤣🤣🤣
Agreed!
Boys from Brazil?
+1, I'm getting an error to heart this comment.
You are not alone. Oraxx can't upvote comments either. Some of us couldn't for a couple of days but got it back. And then there is NOGODZ who can upvote comments only on his library computers or on the "like" page in any commenter's profile as long as they liked it too 🤪
S U B S T A AAAAAHH C K!!!
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
My opinion for the last couple of weeks, if you followed my deaths and subsequent reincarnations 🤣
You and the Winchester, Sam and Dean, have a lot in common. And less in common with Jesus who only came back once.
Exactly. Safety for all, each & every one. Being taught to gate others is not really safe for anyone.
People who see their religion as the answer to every question are almost always completely oblivious to the horrors that have been justified in the name of religion. It is NEVER the job of our secular government to backstop anyone's religion.
"People who see their religion as the answer to every question are almost always completely oblivious to the horrors that have been justified in the name of religion. "
That may or may not be true for long. Since the Evangelical Movement took over the GOP, and both groups have embraced fascism, it increasingly seems like cruelty and suffering are their goals. One can't look at MTG and think she's anything but a bloodthirsty monster.
Please...don't vilify bloodthirsty monsters by associating them with the likes of MTG.
Can you make that into a t-shirt or a bumper sticker please, it's perfect.
They always deny the Nazis were christians too, I mean they only had "Gott mit uns" on their belt buckles.
"the men are both pastors" someone needs to check on the kids they already have amirite...
That was my first thought, interview the kids in confidentiality.
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛’𝑡 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑣𝑢𝑙𝑛𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑛 𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑑𝑟𝑢𝑔 𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑒𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑛𝑜𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙 ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑒.
And if a foster family said "our religion does not recognize drug addition as a medical problem, and we will not take our child to addiction services," then the decision to deny them foster parent responsibilities would be cut and dried.
Now, the analogy has issues. I don't want to imply being gay is like drug addiction. But in terms of (foster) parental responsibilities to deliver state services, the analogy holds: the state is rejecting these people because they refuse to provide a social service or support to their foster kids that the state says the foster kids should get. Religion may explain their refusal, but it does not excuse it.
"she used to have “same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria'“ but “eventually grew out of her discomfort.” (It’s not clearly if she’s confusing that with being a proverbial “tomboy.”
For me as a former tomboy, it is, she probably grew up in a family with severe restrictions on what genders are allowed or not to do. Was I jealous of the boys ? Yes. Did I have a preference for boys labelled toys* and activities* ? Yes. Did I thought myself as born with the wrong body ? No.
These fundies families are hypocrites. When there was talk of gay families adopting or fostering children, they were the first to say "No one is entitled to have children".
It was obvious to me at an early age that my mom preferred my brother, so i tried to be more boy-like. By the time I became a teenager my mom had emotionally abandoned me so I didn't have a lot of nurturing through the years when I might have become more feminine.
I'm biologically and sexually female, but I still prefer to dress more masculine. Why? Because it is a hell of a lot more comfortable.
I have only one dress, it's for Ren fair or fantasy conventions. I usually wear men T-shirts and hike pants. I love having long hair though.
Sames...but short hair!
12 years of boardschool where I couldn't let my hair grow lower than my shoulders because of lice. Once I got out, the first thing I did was to let them grow like when I was 4 years old. I had to cut them last year but before that I had to be careful when sitting. I should have this length back in a little over a year :)
"It was obvious to me at an early age that my mom preferred my brother"
From what I can tell, Christianity does a real number on relationships between mothers and daughters by preferencing men in every situation. I had a similar experience, and it took me years to figure out what went wrong and understand that my mother was in too deep and refused to even attempt to try and have any kind of relationship with. You are by no means alone, and aren't responsible for the way your mother treated you.
Oh, and yes, I'm also biologically and sexually female, and prefer pants for the same reason.
I think they have forced that into society, because I know many women who favored their sons, over their daughters, one is my sister, with no religion involved.
Yes!!! Oh and tshirts are larger cut and cheaper!!!
Yeah, Hemant's parenthetical confused me too. Same sex romantic attraction isn't the same thing as wanting to be active in sports or wear pants. I think if you feel it, then no that's not simply 'being a tomboy'. Our (boy) kid liked a bunch of "girl" toys and activities when we was young, but he's always gotten puppy love/crushed on girls. The two things (lifestyle choice, romantic attraction) are, at least in my limited parental experience, different and separable.
I think what Hemant was saying is the rightwing anti-trans people are conflating being a tomboy with being a transman. I have seen them publicly talk about when they were kids they wanted to be boys because the boys got to do the stuff they liked, so they were tomboys but as they grew up they found they were feminine. It is an intentional misinformation from the right, per usual, to argue that transmen are not real. We know the situations are not the same, but the right doesn't care.
I hear you, it's also possible she confused finding some girls pretty with same sex attraction. I was able to difference the two but I didn't grew up in an evilgelical family.
DM's maternal family was never big on the gendered toys things, she had a younger cousin who loved to play with her dolls, when his parents knew, they simply bought him dolls and a mini stroller. In the 50's :)
Personally, I would bet her story is just plain lying. Evangelical fundies love them their "I once was lost, but now am found" stories. It's like it gives them social cred in their tribe to claim that before they found Jesus they were a drug addicted gay animal abusing Nickleback fan. And on top of that, in this case her attempt to show empathy gets her something she wants (i.e. acceptance as a foster parent). So nope, not really believing it. Have internet-heard too many "before I found Jesus, I too was a...." testimonials to take them at face value.
Totally agreed, she is liar liar pants on fire!!
This lady is making up a story as if she was at one point lesbian (or contemplating her sexual orientation)....... but she turned to god and miraculously became straight, met a nice christian boy, got married, had kids....."Praise jesus, see if I can do it, anyone can"
I got news for her, if she is sexually attracted to women, it wont go away, she's just not acting on it, assuming she's telling the truth which I doubt.
You may be right. Captain Casdidy used to tell us about such stories, starting with ex husband.
🎯I think that goes back to those individuals we knew in school, who were so thirsty for any adults attention, they would lie, and confess to anything.
What drives humanity as a species?
Drive to eat
Drive for sex
Drive to form tribes
That’s it. Everything thing else spins from those three. 🧐👅😋🤑
The Drive to Acquire. The desire to obtain or collect physical objects, as well as immaterial qualities like status, power, and influence.
The Drive to Bond. The desire to feel valued and loved by forming relationships with others, either platonic or romantic.
The Drive to Learn. The desire to satisfy our curiosity.
The Drive to Defend. The desire to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our property.
The Drive to Feel. The desire for new sensory stimulus, intense emotional experiences, pleasure, excitement, entertainment, and anticipation.
I remember having big crushes on other girls.
I can find a woman beautiful or pretty but ot doesn't go further.
I still do, when I meet an exceptional individual.
My kids played with both boy and girl toys, I never made a point about whatever they liked. Daughter loved wearing her Sponge Bob boy swim trunks with a girl bathing suit top. Son loved playing dress up with his sister. They both displayed their masculine and feminine sides. And both wear long hair (though son has a beard).
Yes! I remember my entire childhood being circumscribed by “girls don’t do that”. But girls DID do ALL the things I wanted to do - be a doctor not a nurse or teacher, etc. so many curiosities to explore but every effort thwarted by neo-Edwardian, Victorian sensibilities embedded in my family of origin. And of course, that all coalesced into “Republicanism” being championed by my bitter, resentful, unhappy father - domineering & abusive to everyone in his orbit.
My father's family was like this. I was the lucky one with a mother who grew up with liberal values.
Or speaking from experience here, she is bisexual and tried to give that up to be married to a man.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑛’𝑡 𝑟𝑒𝑗𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠𝑒 𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑟𝑒 𝑪𝒉𝒓𝒊𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒂𝒏. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑟𝑒𝑗𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑟𝑒 𝒃𝒊𝒈𝒐𝒕𝒔.
There's the TL;DR summary of this entire article, never mind of too much of evangelical Christianity. It could also be mentioned that the brand of Christianity practiced by the Wuoti and Gantt families either gave rise to their bigotry or it was their bigotry which attracted them to a specific church. In this case, causation isn't the issue here.
The issue is a failure to be able to deal with those who are DIFFERENT.
Actually, the real issue IMO is that people who take in children like this appear to be primarily motivated for the income stream provided. Therefore, the real lawsuit should be something like: The State of Vermont is interfering with my “God Given Right” to express who I am and make the government tithings as I’m entitled to make.
Then the government replies we are a country of man made laws …….
Couple responds we are a Christian Nation.
And the dialectic continues on to ad nauseam which is promoted by BigPharm which has the best Medicine at $399.99 per pill. . .
God Bless American
Land of the sheep
Or they are virtue signaling by being foster parents.
More proselytizing as foster parents, forcing the children to conform to their religious beliefs. There are some clues in the article, when they said they share their love of god, if the child wants to hear it, being pastors and such. Do you really think that a Jewish or Muslim child would be excused from weekly church services? Or even, heaven forfend, an atheist?
Personally, I would go with a mix of money, proselytizing and virtue signalling, in that order.
🎯🎯🎯
Yes...and savior complex.
That, and grabbing the money with both hands! The religious people who took in wards of the state, as they were called then, used them as slaves to do manual labor. I doubt much has changed.
Doing it for the money does not require or demand that you to act like an authoritarian jerk towards your foster charges. Your kids disagreeing with you is a common - ubiquitous - part of parenthood. Doesn't matter if you're parenting for love or money or both, how you handle that is entirely your call. If they fostered for the money but made the right call, I'd have no problem with it. And if they fostered out of sincere empathy and made the wrong call, then I have a problem with it.
I certainly understand your position in an idealistic, logical world. However, based upon my experience of humanity, the motivation behind the why something is done affects how something is done.
OK - explain to me how they rationalize ramming their religion down the throats of kids who may have come from a different religious or no religious tradition? The whole problem with reichwing religionists is that they demand that all of society acquiesce to their worldview. I'll just bet these people provide an abusive environment for any kids who won't conform. I would point out that you cannot hammer a square peg into a round hole. There will be damage. The only people for whom there is a choice are Bi people. They can abandon and supress their same sex desires - and likely live Thoreau's lives of quiet desperation. And, the ultra-straight people point to them and say "See, it works" - with no comprehension of how damaged these people can be. (Edit - changed is to are.)
These people likely abuse all their fosters, because simply being in the system means there is something wrong with them, and any defiance they show will likely be problematic to the couples. They are waving their red flags in regards to LGBTQ children, but they have plenty of other flags they are better at hiding.
These kids come into the foster home system damaged - either from broken homes or loss of parents with no family willing to step in and care for them. Taking them in can disrupt a largely stable family (personal experience). Being taken in by authoritarian foster parents will just damage the kids more.
Been there, done that. It only worked for so long, after my divorce, I was free to be myself again. No religion involved , just trying to be straight.
It's pretty clear that it isn't the state but these two militant christian couples who are 'putting their ideological agenda ahead of the welfare of suffering children.' Also, both fathers are pastors, which is a red flashing light for potential physical and sexual abuse of children.
Another thing that's pretty clear is that Katy Wouti doesn't know what gender dysphoria really means. And if she was sexually attracted to girls in her youth, she probably still is. Sexual orientation doesn't change because you refuse to acknowledge it as an adult.
I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that ADF recruited these couples for the explicit purpose of suing the state and getting the foster care rules changed to their liking, just as they did with the phony wedding website designer who never had any gay clients.
Just imagine what would happen - and how these very people would react - if a gay couple said they refused to teach their foster kids about religion or take them to religious activities. These people would go ballistic.
As I discussed earlier with ericc, if the woman who claimed to have same sex attraction and gender dysphoria is telling the truth, she may not know the difference with between being a tomboy* and finding some girls pretty*, and actual SSA and GD.
* I was and I did. The only time I kissed a girl, I was 18 months years old and too young to understand the difference between girls and boys. DM still laugh about it 🤣
She said in her lawsuit she 'understood what they were going through because she used to have “same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria'“ but “eventually grew out of her discomfort.' It's possible she was young enough not to understand what SSA was, but it sounds like she was certainly old enough to feel it.
I'd say it's a toss-up: 50/50 chance she's either still lesbian but closeted, or she's bullshitting to boost her 'credibility' for this lawsuit.
I dabbled with Pentecostals in the 80s. I was amazed at how people always topped each other's stories of decadence before they were "saved". It was truly a matter of "first liar doesn't stand a chance"!
🎯Yes, open confession as entertainment, is so gross.
To be honest, I would bet on the bullshit for credibility. It's like the preacher stories about debating atheists, or how they were hardcore addicts but came to the lord, or even growing back limbs or coming back from the dead, there's never any way to confirm the stories. No medical records, no corroborating alibis, just pure claims pulled straight outta sphincter. I doubt she was even remotely tomboyish.
The hardcore addicts become fire and brimstone preachers. My visiting mormon nurse is one. At least 12 step groups prevent that sort of shit. All they did was substitute drugs with forcing god on people.
First this double posted. When I commented on it, both disappeared. It took nearly a minute to do that.
Somehow that posted twice.?
Now this one reappeared.
I’m going with “praying the gay away” either through conversion therapy or shame.
I'm going with closeted.
I'm going with liar liar pants on fire....
I put my money on bullshitting.
T
Maybe that is what we need. kkkristers exploding. But ONLY in their own homes so we do not have to put up with the stench of their evil.
"Don't tell anyone, but "religious freedom" is bigoted America's backdoor to a nostalgic time before Civil Rights."
-- Betty Bowers
To the Christian Nationalists, "Religious Freedom" = "Religious LICENSE."
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/448108271_1692376441548711_62607182037189264_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=4J5E40rpbIgQ7kNvgHXMGFQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AYCxxc6EIymyRMk11BPZCffihlfweb3F4IAzEorKbLQX-w&oe=666E3099
Oh Betty! So good to hear you again!
"In 2021, in Fulton, the city of Philadelphia was forced to honor its contract with Catholic Social Services (CSS) despite the group’s refusal to work with same-sex couples. Even though the Catholic group actively discriminated against LGBTQ people, the city couldn’t cut ties with them."
This right here. This. This is the game, the whole purpose of the ADF involvement and why the parents are suing. Because they want the Christian privilege of access to other people's children to convert them to Christianity, but they do not want anyone else to be able to improve these children's lives. It isn't only LGBTQ foster parents that are being rejected, it's Jewish families, it's black families, it's other types of Christian families (the ones that do accept LGBTQ people for who they are). We've seen the stories, and they have included other religions and demographics. We've also seen the stories of adoptive and foster parents who rehome their charges without the involvement of the state, or who have utilized the monstrous book "Train Up a Child" and the children ended up being physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by their Pastor foster care givers.
The Christians claim even exposing children to LGBTQ people is abuse, which is a lie and part of their tactics to dehumanize and eliminate as many LGBTQ people as possible. It is genocide. So they get to define the terms of who is qualified to care for children. But we see all the time that it is not the LGBTQ people who are actually abusing the kids. Catholic churches are ripe with priests accused of molesting children, Youth Pastor is synonymous with creepy men preying on youth, every sect of Christianity, including the red-headed step children, LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses, have systemic issues with just sexual abuse of children. Not to mention the idea of spare the rod, spoil the child leads to physical abuse. We've got parents seeking out Christian discipline guidance that is simply beat your children starting before they can roll over, turning into nightmares for large families like the Turpins. Is that an extreme? Perhaps, but learning about history, it is only rare in modern times where we do look into family dynamics, my father in law had double digit siblings and they were treated much the same way as the Turpins and no one cared because their neighbors were the same and so were their neighbors. Hell, my mother raised her siblings and the lack of parenting from her parents caused her siblings to be abusive to each other, in all the ways. There was no CPS to protect them, there was no need, because that was just how it was. And they were all Catholic, or Christian in general.
We should be discriminatory in regards to placing children in foster care, that is why there are standards. We cannot just throw the children at people without looking at whether they will care for them. Personally, I would think twice about placing children with preacher families, or super religious folks, because from what we see here and my past experiences with fundies, the more devout a person gets, the more abusive they act. (with only few exceptions) And, when a couple announces that they would not accept a child for who they are, they are saying point blank that they do not care about those children, they are telling you who they are, listen to them.
ALL HATE, no caring. Just more hate.
The very fact that they went directly to the so called and so misnamed alliance defending freedom says everything that needs to be said about these two couples. There is no right to be a foster parent. None whatsoever
They literally say that Trans people don't exist. So a trans child who got stuck with them as foster parents, would have to live with people constantly telling them that their existence and identity are wrong... that's despicable! And it's not just a Christian thing; what about all the Christian families who aren't horrible bigots? Ugh, this is so dumb! If you don't like/believe LGBTQ+ people; why do you want to be able to foster LGBTQ+ children? They're trying to get a legal right to treat children like s%it and spread their bigotry even wider 😡
They probably also say that gay people don't exist and that atheists don't exist, because that's how fascists cope with the presence of people whose existence they find offensive. That's why they tell each other that their brethren fascists are the "real Americans," "real Christians," and "real Republicans."
THAT is what religion is all about. Spreading their brand of intolerance and control over anyone they consider "other" everywhere.
What's the point of removing children from abusive parents if all we are going to do is place them with other abusive parents?
Try to understand, the children were with the WRONG kind of abusive parents.
The Gantts don't believe trans people exit (they clearly do) yet worship an invisible, imaginary superbeing (for which there is no evidence).
They gave themselves a "3." I give then a "- 5."
-11
Celsius, Fahrenheit or Kelvin ?
Given their cold hearted ways, Kelvin. that is -479.47 F
The irony of it all. When you put it in perspective like that, they are even more laughable than before.
Kid: hi my name is Marcus and I'm gay
Them: there's no such thing as gay, do you want to go pray to the invisible deity who lives in the gold ansions up in the sky?
And people tell me how the majority of the public is behind LGBTQ rights. I'm not seeing the outrage form John Q. Public. I'm seeing a lot of shoulder-shrugging "What can I do?" instead of voting and pressuring their representatives. We're being used to generate panic to distract people from the robber barons stealing the briefs from their loins.
"“Vermont’s foster-care system is in crisis: There aren’t enough families to care for vulnerable kids and children born with drug dependencies have nowhere to call home. Yet Vermont is putting its ideological agenda ahead of the needs of these suffering kids,” said ADF Legal Counsel Johannes Widmalm-Delphonse."
So, children that are not safe in their homes with their biological parents because they are LGBTQ children are supposed to go into foster families that are not safe for them either because they are LGBTQ, because there aren't enough homes for them to go to? Out of the frying pan and into the fire, as it were.
The question is really, why are these people looking to foster children? What is their motivation? Because it clearly is not the well being of the children. It seems more that it is to massage their egos and push their religion on vulnerable children. But that's just my observation.
𝑌𝑒𝑡 𝑉𝑒𝑟𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑢𝑡𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑜𝑙𝑜𝑔𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙 𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎 𝑎ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠𝑒 𝑠𝑢𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠.
"Ideological," eh? Looked in a mirror lately, ADF?!? Your reductive treatment of human sexuality has likely caused far more harm, than Vermont's far more accepting attitude.
TO TEACH THEIR HATREDS TO KIDS. TO CREATE a permanent underclass. MAKE RELIGION THE *PERMANENT* UNDERCLASS!!!!
You are usually spot on.
How are the rehearsals going ?
Pretty good, I'm having fun. The show is next week, and I am going to be away for three days. It's not too bad though, because my parts are so small. I have my lines memorized and I am getting to be more fluid in reciting them. I will be practicing while I'm away so I don't slip.
Next thing you know, you will be seeing me everywhere! I'll be the next Kathy Bates. Or, I will do more community theater as I have the opportunity.
"because my parts are so small."
Hey, that's my line!
That is Stormy's story about tRump
You should warn your favorite author to stay away from Wisconsin. : )
Plus the egregious overstatement that Vermont is in crisis which they are not. California and Texas have the most children in foster care.
On a per 100,00 residents bases the worst states are montana, West virginia, Alaska. Their comment about Vermont being in a crisis is complete gaslighting.
$$$$$$$$