The whole problem here is that this school was founded on the premise that you can abuse a child into submission. The Seventh Day Adventists are one of the 2 surviving subsects of the Millerites - the other is the Jehovah's Witnesses... Both sects demand perfect submission from adults and naturally from children. I wonder how many of the survivors of this 'school' are practicing Seventh Day Adventists? I wonder how many of them still speak to their parents?
The new victims saw the first settlement and thought about a payout? As if that settlement was much after lawyer fees and splitting it between the plaintiffs. As was said by someone trying to make it more difficult to bring these cases to court, no amount of money would that can make up for what happened to them, but damn, that doesn’t make it alright to keep them from seeking justice at all.
Insurance is about risk management, your insurance program sucked at risk management because it believed religious people were inherently good, and now you’re facing the consequences of that. Perhaps the state should have poked its nose into the school’s business a little better, then you could have caught this sooner. You’re reaping what you sowed. Don’t further punish future victims because you fucked up.
My local paper had an editorial letter that was praising school choice yesterday. I wanted to scream at the author that this is what you get when you advocate for that. School choice is only about defunding public schools and these “at risk youth” programs are all about further victimization of vulnerable and previously victimized children. They are at risk of you preying on them.
In theory 'school choice' could be consistent with high standards. But the state would have to strongly regulate private schools for that to happen, and they won't/don't.
School choice still takes money out of public schools and puts it in private schools that don't have to take the 'undesirables' leaving them to the now underfunded public schools.
School choice cut the student population at my old high school by half. White families who didn't want to send their progeny to school with black kids, but couldn't afford the private christian school, jumped on the school choice bandwagon like white on rice.
School choice as marketed to parents is high standards, however, school choice as it is being considered and implemented by the folks who have the power to make it work is straight up defunding public schools. Parents have a choice to send their kids to private schools, if they can’t afford it then earn scholarships or request charitable contributions, but do not take money from the taxes set aside for public schooling. Taxes do not work the way they’re trying to make them work.
Personally i agree, and I'd be very happy if all states got rid of their voucher programs altogether. But my point was that if the state is going to subcontract out education, there are still right ways and wrong ways to do that, and this is very definitely a wrong way.
One point I’d like to make is that the state should not be subcontracting anything. They can purchase products but never services. Look at what happened to the prison system when it got privatized. There are quotas for full beds and that means folks who have served their time are unfairly being kept for “infractions” long after they should be. It is rife with corruption, and criminal behavior of staff against prisoners. Every time the government tries to privatize any government agency, it makes everything worse. But the right wing is hell bent on it because they’re in the pockets of corporate interests.
IANAL and I'm just guessing as to your last question, but it sounds like Clark was the 'CEO' equivalent of the insured organization, knew what was happening, and let the organization's employees continue to do it as 'part of their job' without informing the authorities. Which AIUI probably makes the organization liable for what the employees - including Clark - did.
I keep saying it: Religion (Christianity in this country in particular) needs to be 21-and-over. No children allowed. It might just save a lot of tragedy.
Warning sign 2-infinite. Unless the practicioner you are contracting with is a police officer, security guard, or dominatrix, stop employing them (and tell them to leave) at "carries handcuffs".
Well I don't have any advice on how to fix the shortfall caused by past idiocy, but there are two obvious future solutions. The first is to actually do the job you are supposed to do, and only certify a school to operate when the staff is accredited, licensed, has the proper facilities and resources, etc. Once you've accopmlished that, the second is for the legislature to require its' state insurance agencies to get reinsurance. But you gotta do the first first, because if you just go out and try and get reinsurance without demonstrating that you do your job, no reinsurer is going to want to touch you.
That's it? Six lousy months of incarceration, by comparison with how long various of their victims spent in those isolation rooms? Certainly the $100 million in fines and penalties will leave an impression on Clark and her cronies, but jail time, at least in my mind, would utterly seal the deal.
One other thing: why don't I see this on Norah O'Donnell or Lester Holt's rundown? This is the kind of Christian malfeasance which needs to be on the national news, to let people know just how terrific "Christian Love" really is.
In fairness, that is kinda the point of insurance.
The problem here is that the insurer didn't really do their job. Probably because of this being a red state, their idea of 'regulation' for private schools is a gum drop machine that dispenses permissions to operate.
My apologies, I suspect my meaning wasn't clear. I intended to say that it's too bad we can't send her back in time as a child to be 'educated' by the facility she used to run for a few years. I will attempt to be more clear in the future.
When people become convinced they're operating under divine sanction, they can justify any horror. In my view, the parents are fully culpable for what was done to their children in the name of God. If there is an upside here, it that this school almost certainly created a new generation of atheists.
Considering that the reasons listed for sending kids to that hellhole include such innocuous things as fibbing, disobedience, and *𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘤𝘬𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘴* "Jesusing with insufficient gusto," I dare say that someone needs to take a good hard look at the 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 involved, as well. If they're willing to ship their offspring off to torture camp for not being perfect little cross-kissing automatons, what sick shit did they try 𝘣𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘦 that to force the kids back in line?
After all, they can choose to deny them a blood transfusion, or even chose "faith healing" over actual medical care even if it results in the death of the child.
“There’s no money that can make that up for what happened to them. But we also have to take a look at the security of the state and the coffers of the state to be able to pay to operate.”
For some nutty reason the words "due diligence" come to mind. It is certainly incumbent on insurers--and most definitely on STATE, i.e. public insurers to, er, make certain that the entities they're insuring comply with all relevant laws and regulations. If the state insured this horrible school with no due diligence or oversight, probably because it was "christian," I'd say that's just too fucking bad for the state government and the taxpayers (most of whom would likely have had no problem with it--believe me, I know WV).
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like what the state should do is actually start providing oversight to these "fix your kids" Christian schools.
We've heard over and over the tales of abuse at these places, which often seem to be little more than institutionalized victim factories. Sure, there are places that help troubled kids in need of guidance without abuse; I'm not saying otherwise. I'm saying that too often, because society perceives "Christian" as good, when these places are religiously motivated they just don't get the same scrutiny as nonreligious organizations. The inconsistency is the problem here, not just the religious piety that makes these folks think they can do it better. It makes me very nervous when someone claims they don't need oversight because of how religiously moral they are; it seems that we inevitably find out a few years later they were committing some sort of crime and just didn't want to be punished for it.
Provide oversight to everyone or don't bother at all. This middle of the road stuff is only making it worse.
I don't think "don't bother at all" is a viable choice. I agree that inconsistent oversight is bad, and even when oversight is provided it doesn't really seem to be that good. "Fix your kids" schools, camps, etc seem to just be for parents who don't want to do the hard work of talking to their kids to find out what's wrong or are trying to fix something that's not broken. (LGBT or atheism or just wanting a different future than their parents envisioned)
That's a fair point. I just don't see why they'd bother with oversight for nonreligious schools of this type if they're not going to bother doing the same with the religious ones. Fish or cut the bait, as it were.
Then again, I'm not sure that viability is really something some of these folks worry all that much about.
Is there a country that hasn't had schools that have abused kids? We're not one. When I 1st started teaching it was legal to hit kids with a stick, or a leather strap. Now it's illegal even for parents to do it, although I'm not sure it's particularly well enforced. Certainly the moral panic about thousands of parents being put in jail hasn't happened.
Well Clark spent 6 months in jail, but the entire staff should have been arrested and prosecuted. The settlement is for how the school itself neglected the students, but the individuals all deserve punishment separately.
Six months is definitely a travesty. This country really does have a fucked up sense of priorities. It is clear that the penal system is only concerned with locking up certain populations and not at all concerned about punishing crime.
Punishing isn’t the right word, I had a migraine yesterday, while it was mild, I’m having more difficulty finding the right words again. Stopping or slowing or… something.
IIRC, empirically, deterrence is effective when we catch the perps quickly; making the punishment harsher doesn't actually reduce the crime rate. So a 6 month sentence could be fine. The way LE needs to improve on cases like this is they need to take the very first complaint seriously, investigate, and prosecute people like Clark after *the first* kid comes out of the 'solitary' box. Not 20 years and umpteen kids later.
Yes, to everything. However, I wasn’t trying to make the length of time a deterrent in this instance, more of a fitting punishment for the crime. Justice can have both deterrents and punishment as long as it’s not vindictive. I know that’s not an easy line to walk, but there must be some way.
Right now the system incarcerates people more for the color of their skin or their economic status than the crimes they commit. The crimes we have on the books are mostly about framing POC and the poor for being POC or poor than they are about protecting lives or property. Or even deterring anyone from breaking social contracts.
I tend to be quite liberal when it comes to 'fitting punishment.' Particularly when I see what places like Finland are accomplishing. I think lowering crime rate and recidivism rate are so important that I'm willing to "pay the personal cost" of being dissatisfied with a punishment for someone who's done wrong to me...IF the state can do those two things. That, however, is a big IF requiring a lot of empirical support before I accept it or think other people will accept it.
I agree with your second paragraph. Though I think that's not mostly about the laws on the books, it's about our prosecution and defense system. Inequal defense resources leads to inequal outcomes, and in fact our system would break if defendants were given strong counsel across the board. The court system is now funded and manned (personned?) under the assumption that >90% of cases will plea out. Which is both a cause and a symptom of injustice.
I checked WV drug laws, you can get up to 6 months for a first offence, the double for a second and condemnations from other states count. They know their priorities...
John Denver sang about W VA as "almost heaven". That, and spending eternity with christians singing endless choruses of "our god is an awesome god" are two great points against heaven,
Someone needs to take a cluestick to the premier of New Brunswick until he gets the truism through his thick skull that "parents' rights" don't trump a child's 𝒉𝒖𝒎𝒂𝒏 𝒓𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕𝒔.
Not surprising. Remember the US hasn't won a war since 1945 (unless you want to count Reagan's laughable invasion of Grenada). That's 78 years, a mighty long time for what we're always being told is the greatest military in the world. (What we have is the most EXPENSIVE military in the world, which is not at all the same thing.)
Regan went down there to thanks to the troops. My ship went in support of his visit. He did a helicopter flyover for us. I have a tape recording of his message to us.
Technically, I don't think we've been in a war since 1945. They've been conflicts or police actions. Congress didn't actually declare war. The CIC just acted like they did.
What makes me saddest about this is that, in some parts of the US, those Canadian officials are not wrong, not by a wide margin. Still ... if you want to come to Cleveland, I'd like to think you'd be more than welcome!
6 mos for the woman in charge and zero for anyone else doing the actual crimes; that is pathetic. We need to wake up to the horrors that are happening, in our country, in the name of this mythical God, even if you don't think he is mythical. First step is to remove all mention of or symbols of any and all religions from our government, public places and schools. Second, none of our tax dollars should be going to any religious school (Separation of Religious Organizations and State), nor any private school. We need to improve our public schools, from improving our teachers, hours spent to the curriculum nationwide. A child in Florida should get the same education as a child in California. I was hoping after Trump this would have been one of our top priorities.
Too many people still think religion has some good to it, despite all the evidence to the contrary. There is enormous social inertia associated with the supposed goodness of irrational belief, and overcoming it is going to take TIME, and a lot of it.
"the horrors that are happening, in our country, in the name of this mythical God" have been happening since the first christian set foot on North American soil. "The American Dream" has been a nightmare for far too many people.
"Happy, healthy people with happy, healthy children! People who respect nature and live in harmony with it! The horror of it all! We MUST civilize them!"
"spiritual disinterest" - so if you weren't drinking the kool-aid (flavor-aid), no matter if you were a well-behaved kid, your parents could send you here to be tortured until you decided to drink or at least pretend to.
TL;DR: You didn't even have to be a troublemaker to be sent to Hell.
The whole problem here is that this school was founded on the premise that you can abuse a child into submission. The Seventh Day Adventists are one of the 2 surviving subsects of the Millerites - the other is the Jehovah's Witnesses... Both sects demand perfect submission from adults and naturally from children. I wonder how many of the survivors of this 'school' are practicing Seventh Day Adventists? I wonder how many of them still speak to their parents?
"In fact, staffers were given handcuffs to use on kids as young as six."
Where do you find handcuffs small enough for 6 years old children ? Who are the sadistic assholes who sell them ?
Probably the same people who think shock collars for kids are a good idea.
I'd be sorely tempted to try out those shock collars on those people and see if they still think it's a good idea.
Start with a good sturdy leather collar, yank* on it a few dozen times, see if they like it.
* The reason why Aria had a harness and not a collar.
Can't say I haven't thought that a few times.
A christian supply store?
That kid sure looks cross.
I certainly hope so. That bit about the "self-raping child" (?!?!?!?) sounds like it couldn't be anything BUT satire.
But then again, with the Perl-crazed christer crowd, who knows.
It's satire. Check out StopMasturbationNow.org
On a website hawking "To Train Up a Child"
Don't tell me. This shit caused the death of at least 3 children and the pearls are not responsible of anything 🤬
👿 indeed. May The Evil One take their souls for 10,000 years.
The new victims saw the first settlement and thought about a payout? As if that settlement was much after lawyer fees and splitting it between the plaintiffs. As was said by someone trying to make it more difficult to bring these cases to court, no amount of money would that can make up for what happened to them, but damn, that doesn’t make it alright to keep them from seeking justice at all.
Insurance is about risk management, your insurance program sucked at risk management because it believed religious people were inherently good, and now you’re facing the consequences of that. Perhaps the state should have poked its nose into the school’s business a little better, then you could have caught this sooner. You’re reaping what you sowed. Don’t further punish future victims because you fucked up.
My local paper had an editorial letter that was praising school choice yesterday. I wanted to scream at the author that this is what you get when you advocate for that. School choice is only about defunding public schools and these “at risk youth” programs are all about further victimization of vulnerable and previously victimized children. They are at risk of you preying on them.
In theory 'school choice' could be consistent with high standards. But the state would have to strongly regulate private schools for that to happen, and they won't/don't.
School choice still takes money out of public schools and puts it in private schools that don't have to take the 'undesirables' leaving them to the now underfunded public schools.
School choice cut the student population at my old high school by half. White families who didn't want to send their progeny to school with black kids, but couldn't afford the private christian school, jumped on the school choice bandwagon like white on rice.
For the "better education," of course.
School choice as marketed to parents is high standards, however, school choice as it is being considered and implemented by the folks who have the power to make it work is straight up defunding public schools. Parents have a choice to send their kids to private schools, if they can’t afford it then earn scholarships or request charitable contributions, but do not take money from the taxes set aside for public schooling. Taxes do not work the way they’re trying to make them work.
Personally i agree, and I'd be very happy if all states got rid of their voucher programs altogether. But my point was that if the state is going to subcontract out education, there are still right ways and wrong ways to do that, and this is very definitely a wrong way.
We’re on the same page.
One point I’d like to make is that the state should not be subcontracting anything. They can purchase products but never services. Look at what happened to the prison system when it got privatized. There are quotas for full beds and that means folks who have served their time are unfairly being kept for “infractions” long after they should be. It is rife with corruption, and criminal behavior of staff against prisoners. Every time the government tries to privatize any government agency, it makes everything worse. But the right wing is hell bent on it because they’re in the pockets of corporate interests.
Maybe the State shouldn't be involved in insuring private schools, or at least provide oversite.
I'm not sure why insurance should pay out for criminal activity.
IANAL and I'm just guessing as to your last question, but it sounds like Clark was the 'CEO' equivalent of the insured organization, knew what was happening, and let the organization's employees continue to do it as 'part of their job' without informing the authorities. Which AIUI probably makes the organization liable for what the employees - including Clark - did.
I keep saying it: Religion (Christianity in this country in particular) needs to be 21-and-over. No children allowed. It might just save a lot of tragedy.
But-but-but ... adults are harder to indoctrinate / brainwash than kids are! 🤦♂️
Torture works well enough on adults.
What the 4-14 Window Tells Us About Christianity's Future
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/930cd09e67c2c9c9b9830733867542f76e7e5fa424b7653952b5d1b558afe810.jpg
https://onlysky.media/ccassidy/what-the-4-14-window-tells-us-about-christianitys-future/
That first one? Now you know why xtians hate education and want to burn books/close libraries.
Knowledge is fatal to superstition.
𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑓𝑓 𝑚𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎 “𝑑𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛..."
Warning sign 1: practicioners that should be showing you their license, talk about their 'calling' instead.
𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑔𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑛 ℎ𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑐𝑢𝑓𝑓𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑜𝑛 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑎𝑠 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑠 𝑠𝑖𝑥.
Warning sign 2-infinite. Unless the practicioner you are contracting with is a police officer, security guard, or dominatrix, stop employing them (and tell them to leave) at "carries handcuffs".
𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑙𝑎𝑤 𝑚𝑎𝑦 𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑏𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑗𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑦 𝑡𝑜𝑜, 𝑏𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑀𝑖𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑙𝑒 𝑀𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑜𝑤𝑠 𝑆𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑢𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑎 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒-𝑟𝑢𝑛 𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑦, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑟𝑖𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑜𝑛’𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑒𝑦 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑙 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑡𝑠.
Well I don't have any advice on how to fix the shortfall caused by past idiocy, but there are two obvious future solutions. The first is to actually do the job you are supposed to do, and only certify a school to operate when the staff is accredited, licensed, has the proper facilities and resources, etc. Once you've accopmlished that, the second is for the legislature to require its' state insurance agencies to get reinsurance. But you gotta do the first first, because if you just go out and try and get reinsurance without demonstrating that you do your job, no reinsurer is going to want to touch you.
There STILL is no hate like Christian Love™, is there? Also, consider:
𝐶𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑘 “𝑝𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑔𝑢𝑖𝑙𝑡𝑦 𝑡𝑜 𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑑 𝑛𝑒𝑔𝑙𝑒𝑐𝑡, 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑙𝑢𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑜𝑏𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑒, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑒𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑑 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑥-𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑡ℎ 𝑗𝑎𝑖𝑙 𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑓𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑦𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑏𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛.”
That's it? Six lousy months of incarceration, by comparison with how long various of their victims spent in those isolation rooms? Certainly the $100 million in fines and penalties will leave an impression on Clark and her cronies, but jail time, at least in my mind, would utterly seal the deal.
One other thing: why don't I see this on Norah O'Donnell or Lester Holt's rundown? This is the kind of Christian malfeasance which needs to be on the national news, to let people know just how terrific "Christian Love" really is.
The settlements are being covered by the state insurance, so it isn't coming out of the staffers pockets.
In fairness, that is kinda the point of insurance.
The problem here is that the insurer didn't really do their job. Probably because of this being a red state, their idea of 'regulation' for private schools is a gum drop machine that dispenses permissions to operate.
One at least hopes that, at least in this venue, Clark & Co. are now UNINSURABLE.
"That's it? Six lousy months of incarceration, by comparison with how long various of their victims spent in those isolation rooms?"
Well, you know, it's a bit tough to make her serve two years as a kid in the school she used to run at this point....
6 months for the crister vs mental and emotional scars that will be carried for a lifetime by the victims.
My apologies, I suspect my meaning wasn't clear. I intended to say that it's too bad we can't send her back in time as a child to be 'educated' by the facility she used to run for a few years. I will attempt to be more clear in the future.
Oh no, I got what you were getting at by the time travel thing. I was basing my reply on the quoted material. Tis I who was not clear. :)
When people become convinced they're operating under divine sanction, they can justify any horror. In my view, the parents are fully culpable for what was done to their children in the name of God. If there is an upside here, it that this school almost certainly created a new generation of atheists.
C'mon now, everyone, sing along! You know this one!
𝑇ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑣𝑒 𝑎𝑏𝑠𝑢𝑟𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑖𝑡 𝑎𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑒𝑠.
-- Voltaire
Considering that the reasons listed for sending kids to that hellhole include such innocuous things as fibbing, disobedience, and *𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘤𝘬𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘴* "Jesusing with insufficient gusto," I dare say that someone needs to take a good hard look at the 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 involved, as well. If they're willing to ship their offspring off to torture camp for not being perfect little cross-kissing automatons, what sick shit did they try 𝘣𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘦 that to force the kids back in line?
They have "religious liberty" to maltreat their kids. What kind of American are you to suggest otherwise?
After all, they can choose to deny them a blood transfusion, or even chose "faith healing" over actual medical care even if it results in the death of the child.
I saw that too..."spiritual disinterest." What a piss-ant reason to ship your kids off to a chamber of horrors.
Need to stay away from this post for a few hours. I am too angry and it's not good for me right now.
“There’s no money that can make that up for what happened to them. But we also have to take a look at the security of the state and the coffers of the state to be able to pay to operate.”
For some nutty reason the words "due diligence" come to mind. It is certainly incumbent on insurers--and most definitely on STATE, i.e. public insurers to, er, make certain that the entities they're insuring comply with all relevant laws and regulations. If the state insured this horrible school with no due diligence or oversight, probably because it was "christian," I'd say that's just too fucking bad for the state government and the taxpayers (most of whom would likely have had no problem with it--believe me, I know WV).
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like what the state should do is actually start providing oversight to these "fix your kids" Christian schools.
We've heard over and over the tales of abuse at these places, which often seem to be little more than institutionalized victim factories. Sure, there are places that help troubled kids in need of guidance without abuse; I'm not saying otherwise. I'm saying that too often, because society perceives "Christian" as good, when these places are religiously motivated they just don't get the same scrutiny as nonreligious organizations. The inconsistency is the problem here, not just the religious piety that makes these folks think they can do it better. It makes me very nervous when someone claims they don't need oversight because of how religiously moral they are; it seems that we inevitably find out a few years later they were committing some sort of crime and just didn't want to be punished for it.
Provide oversight to everyone or don't bother at all. This middle of the road stuff is only making it worse.
I don't think "don't bother at all" is a viable choice. I agree that inconsistent oversight is bad, and even when oversight is provided it doesn't really seem to be that good. "Fix your kids" schools, camps, etc seem to just be for parents who don't want to do the hard work of talking to their kids to find out what's wrong or are trying to fix something that's not broken. (LGBT or atheism or just wanting a different future than their parents envisioned)
You talk as if you think parents should have some responsibility for their kids' well-being. What a subversive idea.
I know, I'm such a radical. To suggest parents 𝐭𝐚𝐥𝐤 to their kids and even 𝒍𝒊𝒔𝒕𝒆𝒏 to them. I must be some kind of communist pervert.
Well. it's about time you admitted it, comrade.
That's a fair point. I just don't see why they'd bother with oversight for nonreligious schools of this type if they're not going to bother doing the same with the religious ones. Fish or cut the bait, as it were.
Then again, I'm not sure that viability is really something some of these folks worry all that much about.
Is there a country that hasn't had schools that have abused kids? We're not one. When I 1st started teaching it was legal to hit kids with a stick, or a leather strap. Now it's illegal even for parents to do it, although I'm not sure it's particularly well enforced. Certainly the moral panic about thousands of parents being put in jail hasn't happened.
Was anyone from this Christian hellhole arrested for these crimes against children? If not, why not?
It seems all the wrong people were put in handcuffs.
Well Clark spent 6 months in jail, but the entire staff should have been arrested and prosecuted. The settlement is for how the school itself neglected the students, but the individuals all deserve punishment separately.
6 months in local lockup for these horrors? And Christians have the gall to claim they're persecuted in America.
Any chance of pursuing criminal charges at this point, now that the details are known?
Six months is definitely a travesty. This country really does have a fucked up sense of priorities. It is clear that the penal system is only concerned with locking up certain populations and not at all concerned about punishing crime.
Punishing isn’t the right word, I had a migraine yesterday, while it was mild, I’m having more difficulty finding the right words again. Stopping or slowing or… something.
I would go with deterring crime and rehabilitating criminals.
You got it. That’s what I was trying to find. Thanks.
Even suffering from brain fog due to migraine you're more articulate than most people.
IIRC, empirically, deterrence is effective when we catch the perps quickly; making the punishment harsher doesn't actually reduce the crime rate. So a 6 month sentence could be fine. The way LE needs to improve on cases like this is they need to take the very first complaint seriously, investigate, and prosecute people like Clark after *the first* kid comes out of the 'solitary' box. Not 20 years and umpteen kids later.
Yes, to everything. However, I wasn’t trying to make the length of time a deterrent in this instance, more of a fitting punishment for the crime. Justice can have both deterrents and punishment as long as it’s not vindictive. I know that’s not an easy line to walk, but there must be some way.
Right now the system incarcerates people more for the color of their skin or their economic status than the crimes they commit. The crimes we have on the books are mostly about framing POC and the poor for being POC or poor than they are about protecting lives or property. Or even deterring anyone from breaking social contracts.
I tend to be quite liberal when it comes to 'fitting punishment.' Particularly when I see what places like Finland are accomplishing. I think lowering crime rate and recidivism rate are so important that I'm willing to "pay the personal cost" of being dissatisfied with a punishment for someone who's done wrong to me...IF the state can do those two things. That, however, is a big IF requiring a lot of empirical support before I accept it or think other people will accept it.
I agree with your second paragraph. Though I think that's not mostly about the laws on the books, it's about our prosecution and defense system. Inequal defense resources leads to inequal outcomes, and in fact our system would break if defendants were given strong counsel across the board. The court system is now funded and manned (personned?) under the assumption that >90% of cases will plea out. Which is both a cause and a symptom of injustice.
Containing crime?
I was thinking it starts with a d, dissuading crime, I don’t know.
I checked WV drug laws, you can get up to 6 months for a first offence, the double for a second and condemnations from other states count. They know their priorities...
Helps to explain why they're ranked 46th Overall as "Best State to Live In."
How can that be with all this beautiful and healthy charcoal ?
John Denver sang about W VA as "almost heaven". That, and spending eternity with christians singing endless choruses of "our god is an awesome god" are two great points against heaven,
OT: The Canadian government has issued a travel advisory warning LGBT travelers to be wary of conditions in the good ol' USA. How long will it be before the Republicans try to declare war? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/30/canada-lgbtq-travel-advisory-usa/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjkzMzY4MDAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjk0NzUwMzk5LCJpYXQiOjE2OTMzNjgwMDAsImp0aSI6IjI5OWRiZjY2LWZjMzgtNDA1NS04MDAxLTJlMDRkYzhiZWUwYSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIzLzA4LzMwL2NhbmFkYS1sZ2J0cS10cmF2ZWwtYWR2aXNvcnktdXNhLyJ9.G4AawXQmUVYTU-h2Wqc6VYHjC4qdWJ3SoxgabhUjbvE
Someone needs to take a cluestick to the premier of New Brunswick until he gets the truism through his thick skull that "parents' rights" don't trump a child's 𝒉𝒖𝒎𝒂𝒏 𝒓𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕𝒔.
Given the reports on New Brunswick and Saskatchewan, I'm wondering what the requirements are to emigrate to New Zealand.
The last time the US tried to invade Canada, it got its ass handed to it.
Not surprising. Remember the US hasn't won a war since 1945 (unless you want to count Reagan's laughable invasion of Grenada). That's 78 years, a mighty long time for what we're always being told is the greatest military in the world. (What we have is the most EXPENSIVE military in the world, which is not at all the same thing.)
Hey, I was in Grenada, sort of.
Regan went down there to thanks to the troops. My ship went in support of his visit. He did a helicopter flyover for us. I have a tape recording of his message to us.
Ronald Reagan sent Donald Regan down there? ;)
My bad, Raygun.
Couldn't resist funnin' ya. :)
And besides, what are the odds of two people with such eerily similar, nearly identitcal names being in the same administration?
Technically, I don't think we've been in a war since 1945. They've been conflicts or police actions. Congress didn't actually declare war. The CIC just acted like they did.
What makes me saddest about this is that, in some parts of the US, those Canadian officials are not wrong, not by a wide margin. Still ... if you want to come to Cleveland, I'd like to think you'd be more than welcome!
I saw a few comments on a Fox article about Canada that we might have to invade once Trump takes over again because they are Leftist groomers.
6 mos for the woman in charge and zero for anyone else doing the actual crimes; that is pathetic. We need to wake up to the horrors that are happening, in our country, in the name of this mythical God, even if you don't think he is mythical. First step is to remove all mention of or symbols of any and all religions from our government, public places and schools. Second, none of our tax dollars should be going to any religious school (Separation of Religious Organizations and State), nor any private school. We need to improve our public schools, from improving our teachers, hours spent to the curriculum nationwide. A child in Florida should get the same education as a child in California. I was hoping after Trump this would have been one of our top priorities.
Too many people still think religion has some good to it, despite all the evidence to the contrary. There is enormous social inertia associated with the supposed goodness of irrational belief, and overcoming it is going to take TIME, and a lot of it.
"the horrors that are happening, in our country, in the name of this mythical God" have been happening since the first christian set foot on North American soil. "The American Dream" has been a nightmare for far too many people.
"Happy, healthy people with happy, healthy children! People who respect nature and live in harmony with it! The horror of it all! We MUST civilize them!"
"spiritual disinterest" - so if you weren't drinking the kool-aid (flavor-aid), no matter if you were a well-behaved kid, your parents could send you here to be tortured until you decided to drink or at least pretend to.
TL;DR: You didn't even have to be a troublemaker to be sent to Hell.
No matter how well-behaved, they could still get sent to this place to be tortured.
Makes Miracle Meadows School a literal hell on earth.
Not that troublemakers need to be sent to Hell. Most troublemakers are rebelling against lousy parents.
The type that teach obedience instead of respect.