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Joe King's avatar

π‘‡β„Žπ‘’ π‘π‘Žπ‘‘ 𝑛𝑒𝑀𝑠 𝑖𝑠 π‘‘β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ π‘›π‘œ π‘œπ‘›π‘’ 𝑖𝑛 π‘Ž π‘™π‘’π‘Žπ‘‘π‘’π‘Ÿπ‘ β„Žπ‘–π‘ π‘π‘œπ‘ π‘–π‘‘π‘–π‘œπ‘› 𝑖𝑛 π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π·π‘–π‘œπ‘π‘’π‘ π‘’ β„Žπ‘Žπ‘  π‘π‘œπ‘šπ‘’ π‘œπ‘’π‘‘ π‘Žπ‘›π‘‘ π‘Žπ‘π‘œπ‘™π‘œπ‘”π‘–π‘§π‘’π‘‘ π‘“π‘œπ‘Ÿ π‘€β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ β„Žπ‘’ 𝑑𝑖𝑑 π‘‘π‘œ π‘‡β„Žπ‘Ÿπ‘Žπ‘ β„Žπ‘’π‘Ÿ. π‘π‘œ π‘œπ‘›π‘’ 𝑀𝑖𝑙𝑙 π‘Žπ‘‘π‘šπ‘–π‘‘ 𝐻𝑒𝑙𝑑’𝑠 π‘ π‘‘π‘Žπ‘‘π‘’π‘šπ‘’π‘›π‘‘ π‘€π‘Žπ‘  𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑔𝑒𝑠𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 π‘Žπ‘›π‘‘ π‘–π‘›π‘Žπ‘π‘π‘Ÿπ‘œπ‘π‘Ÿπ‘–π‘Žπ‘‘π‘’. π‘π‘œ π‘œπ‘›π‘’ 𝑀𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑏𝑒 β„Žπ‘’π‘™π‘‘ π‘Žπ‘π‘π‘œπ‘’π‘›π‘‘π‘Žπ‘π‘™π‘’ π‘“π‘œπ‘Ÿ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π‘™π‘Žπ‘‘π‘’π‘ π‘‘ π‘ π‘‘π‘Žπ‘–π‘› π‘œπ‘› π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ πΆβ„Žπ‘’π‘Ÿπ‘β„Žβ€™π‘  π‘Ÿπ‘’π‘π‘’π‘‘π‘Žπ‘‘π‘–π‘œπ‘›.

So, a day ending in "y".

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

𝐴𝑠 π‘¦π‘œπ‘’π‘Ÿ π‘π‘Žπ‘ π‘‘π‘œπ‘Ÿ 𝐼 𝑀𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑠𝑒𝑒 π‘‘π‘œ 𝑖𝑑 π‘‘β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ π‘Ž 𝑛𝑒𝑀 𝑣𝑒𝑑𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 π‘π‘œπ‘™π‘–π‘π‘¦ 𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 π‘π‘™π‘Žπ‘π‘’ 𝑖𝑛 π‘œπ‘Ÿπ‘‘π‘’π‘Ÿ π‘‘π‘œ π‘šπ‘–π‘›π‘–π‘šπ‘–π‘§π‘’ π‘Žπ‘›π‘¦π‘‘β„Žπ‘–π‘›π‘” π‘œπ‘“ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π‘ π‘œπ‘Ÿπ‘‘ π‘“π‘Ÿπ‘œπ‘š β„Žπ‘Žπ‘π‘π‘’π‘›π‘–π‘›π‘” π‘Žπ‘”π‘Žπ‘–π‘› 𝑖𝑛 π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π‘“π‘’π‘‘π‘’π‘Ÿπ‘’.

Translation: "It is my intention to insulate the parishioners of this diocese from ANYTHING or ANYONE who does not conform to our doctrine and dogma, despite the fact that they may encounter such people in their day-to-day lives."

To Mr Held (I will NOT call that jackass "father"): you complain about a gay man reading to kids when there are very possibly priests in or near your parish who have RAPED young children and been moved to other locations to avoid investigation or prosecution. Judging from Thrasher's statement, his audience was thrilled at his performance and thought it not at all problematic, whereas all you can see is his sexual orientation, and therewith react in a knee-jerk (emphasis on JERK!) fashion.

And now you have resigned from that parish. Here's hoping that your next assignment has been made aware of your behavior and deals with you appropriately (as if! [sigh]).

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oraxx's avatar

Almost all churches are losing their ability to control people, and they can't handle it.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

I wish that were true, but evangelical churches are everywhere and they are gaining in popularity. They hook lonely, isolated young people in by offering them β€œfellowship” (Aka friendship and socialization with other young people.) It’s scary how many young people spend two, three nights a week in church. They only socialize with one another so they don’t have the opportunity to question what they are being taught to think by their β€œpastor.”

Look at all the American wackos who believed that Covid was a librul plot! That certainly wasn’t a limited phenomenon.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Only jesus can resist to Satan's temptations. Priests are only faillible humans πŸ™„

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Fine. They can be charged, indicted, tried, convicted, and imprisoned for their fallibility ... or they damned well WOULD be if our judicial system had any cojones.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I won't contradict you on this point. The release of barbarin is a stain on my country.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Hmph. Just Googled him and got an eyeful. [sigh] Might be time to pull out my copy of π‘†π‘π‘œπ‘‘π‘™π‘–π‘”β„Žπ‘‘ again. 😑🀬😑🀬

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AlbertCamus's avatar

I see he's got an enemies list posted on his web page. How christian!

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OwossoHarpist's avatar

A lot like Dumb Idiot Ken Ham having his own list of "enemies" who refused to conform to his toxic Bible, Christian, Creation fantasies.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Oh, SUPER! [smh] πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ

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Munchygut's avatar

Do you have a link so I can go see it? Unbelievable.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

That’s a myth.

The US incarcerates more human beings than any other country in the world! And our sentencing is draconian. Most people who commit murder, for example, are so horrified that they will never kill again. Mandatory sentencing (capital punishment or LWOP) is just not necessary for the majority of offenders.

Our safety nets are evaporating: we have no resources to provide healthcare or education or elder care (etc) because the pentagon and the prison industry are sucking up tax dollars from everything else.

Grinding poverty breeds violent crime.

When you are poor, especially if you are not white, you can expect to be charged and sentenced far more harshly than someone who is white (and especially if you are wealthy.) Innocent people go to prison.

Please do not take my word for it, either. You want to be shocked? Look it up. The obsession with β€œtrue” crime leads Americans to believe that our criminal justice system is far too lenient.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Okay. Question: just how many of those are wearing holy orders? How many priests? How many evangelical bible-thumpers? How many of religious orders have been actually PUT IN JAIL for their sexual abuse of children and adults?

I see a whole lot of reporting about the discovery of sexual abuse under cover of religion. I barely hear ANYTHING about indictments, trials, and convictions.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

MOST criminal cases (including homicide) are resolved with pleas. 9/10 people facing indictments plead guilty. (MOST never go to trial.) It’s more cost effective; and it spares victims a trial. Especially if the state doesn’t have the evidence to obtain a conviction.

Abuse stays with the victim, not with the abuser. When offenders plead, there is no trial, so there will be no stories in the paper or on tv because there is no criminal trial. If you Google the names of the offender, you can look that up what sentence they receive.

I am not sure what you mean by wearing holy orders. Holy Orders aren’t robes or vestments, they are religious rituals through which men are ordained for an official ministry. There are three levels: deacon, priest and bishop. (Most common are priests.) First, priests go through ordination as non-permanent deacons. Then they are ordained as priests.

These articles may be helpful:

Most Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse Never Go to Jail. Here’s Why:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/11/catholic-sex-abuse-why-dont-accused-priests-go-jail/3997022002/

Child Sexual Abusers in Protestant Churches https://www.qualitativecriminology.com/pub/osa148h6/release/2

Charter for the Protection of Children & Young People

https://www.usccb.org/offices/child-and-youth-protection/charter-protection-children-and-young-people

As a defense lawyer and survivor of long term sexual abuse by a relative, i will share my own thoughts.

An accusation is just an accusation. It is just a first step and it is not enough to send someone to prison. Arresting someone requires evidence. Taking someone to trial requires a heck of lot more than an accusation, as you know.

This is a good article:

The Scandal of Pedophilia in the Church

https://ffrf.org/fttoday/back-issues/the-scandal-of-pedophilia-in-the-church/

This is good too:

The Pedophile Scandal Rocking the Baptist Church

https://www.vox.com/culture/23131530/southern-baptist-convention-sexual-abuse-scandal-guidepost

If you Google pedophilia + the name of any other church, you will find out that they all have been involved in pedophile scandals: the JW’s, the SDA’s, Evangelicals, etc. Since Evangelicals aren’t a monolithic church like the Catholic Church is, it’s not easy to find that info but the JW’s & the SDA’s have their own scandals, too. Extremist Mormons (FLDS) who practice polygamy have many criminal issues from murder to sex with (and marrying little girls.) Warren Jeffs (polygamous pedophile and leader of the FLDS) was sentenced to life in prison for his sexual abuse of young girls. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/warren-jeffs-polygamist-sect-leader-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-photos/2011/08/09/gIQAepUE5I_blog.html

I discovered the scale of the issue when I was researching a youth pastor who killed his young wife and BOOM! There were dozens and dozens of results of youth pastors who were also pedophiles.

It’s hard to researchers Bible thumpers because they don’t have a name one-size-fits-all label like β€œBaptists”. They can call themselves multiple names, so it’s very hard to find out how much trouble they have been in. I would start with a very broad and neutral search term like β€œpastor” + child molester. Then you can look up sentence or β€œguilty plea” & see what you get.

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larry parker's avatar

If Jesus really cared, he could have stopped the reading before it happened. He didn't, so he must have approved.

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oraxx's avatar

Jesus sat out the Holocaust, so it's best to keep your expectations low.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

The more recent a gospel was compiled, the most antisemitic it is. So how was jesus supposed to save people who didn't recognise him as their Mashiah* ?

* bar Kokhba n'a pas rencontré un franc succès non plus.

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oraxx's avatar

A near total lack of evidence could have something to do with it.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

Too much common sense.

I will never understand the people who rationalize things like the Holocaust. It’s doG’s will. What could a deity possibly accomplish by wiping out all of those people?

If that deity really cared at all why not prevent the Holocaust entirely? If doG is all knowing and all powerful, why didn’t he choose a different sperm or ovum and β€œcreate” a different fetus besides Adolph Hitler? Or will his mon to miscarry. Think about all the lives that would have been saved!

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Sue Donovan's avatar

The commencement speaker at my Law School graduation was selected because (and not despite) the fact that he had authored the statute banning LGBTQ people from adopting or fostering children. (Even blood relatives.) At the time, the state’s largest newspaper quipped: Allowing homosexuals to raise kids is the equivalent of allowing them to raise their own meat.

I objected to his invitation then, as did a few others. But the Administration did not care that he was openly homophobic. To the people who invited him - my classmates - his homophobia was the incentive to invite him. This was neither isolated nor incidental. I had had multiple prior humiliating encounters with these people. Including behavior that never would have been tolerated had it been anti-Christian. This was a secular school. Yet, the excuse I was given was that Christians had the religious right to discriminate against homosexuals. No, not a joke. I stopped complaining because the school’s attitude was that I ought to be grateful to even be there.

I will never forget the shame, anger & humiliation I felt on a day that should’ve been joyful. I will never forget the many occasions that I was mocked and degraded. It began even before my first day of law school.

This was a few decades ago but the homophobia/racism/bigotry persists. If anything - TODAY they are proud of it. A word to the wise: we who do not fall into the demographic of male, white, straight, and Christian are in serious jeopardy. It is true that we have had marriage equality for a few years. But we have been a democracy far longer and are a hair's breadth away from losing that. Democracy requires accepting that all are created equal; conservatives have never believed that. Never.

Never underestimate the power conservatives wield. NEVER! The institutions you believe will protect your fundamental human rights have been dismantled. They are empty shells. This SCOTUS will never place the rights of minorities on the same level as rights of Christians. Sitting justices believe that our very existence persecutes Christians.

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

"Allowing homosexuals to raise kids is the equivalent of allowing them to raise their own meat." Anyone who can't see the logical fallacy contained here shouldn't be working on a newspaper.

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Matri's avatar

So what they're saying is that cattle farms are run by vegans?

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

And heterosexuals aren't sexual predators.

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Sue Donovan's avatar

The vast majority are both heterosexual males (sorry, dudes) and practicing Christians. That’s just a statistical reality. Every major Christian denomination has had a pedophile scandal in the last 20 years or so. Yet, far right evangelicals keep on spreading disinformation about parents in non-traditional families. But they have a vested interest in lying.

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

Those who hate loudest are trying to convince themselves they cannot possibly be that way.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

The absolute fucking irony of a Catholic priest insinuating that a gay man would be a danger to children. I mean, there's 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘫𝘦𝘀𝘡π˜ͺ𝘰𝘯... and then there's IMAX in 3D smell-o-vision with force-feedback seating. Methinks the FBI could do to have a look at Father Held's hard drive...

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Never mind his browser history!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

That jumped right out at me when I first read the article this morning.

Gay men are a danger to kids, Held? You have got to be fucking kidding! Let's check the police blotters to see who the REAL danger to kids is.

Every edition of FFRF's "Freethought Today" contains a lengthy section called "Black Collar Crime." Guess which crime among the clergy predominates?

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Maltnothops's avatar

But….why is that limited to abuse in the RCC?

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oraxx's avatar

Given the Catholic Church's history of child abuse and protecting pedophile priests, the hypocrisy on display here is just mind-numbing. People need to do more than withdraw their children from this school, they need to put the church in their rear-view mirrors.

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Bill Wilson's avatar

"f the new rule is that practicing Catholics aren’t allowed to breathe the same air as LGBTQ people, then Pope Francis ought to come out and say that." If all of the Vatican's homosexual priests at once filled their lungs with air the Vatican would become a perfect vacuum.

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Julie Duggan's avatar

Exactly. Well said.

But yet most Catholics don't even believe in the church's dogma, so the real question is: why do they keep going to the church?

And why do they keep sending their kids to the parochial schools? SMFH

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Bill Wilson's avatar

The answer is: The RCC is part and parcel of many peoples culture. The RCC transmits and supports stories, mores, attitudes, customs, group acceptance help lay persons feel comfortable with their existence. RCC culture is a bad habit, no nun intended, that parishioners should quit.

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Julie Duggan's avatar

Perhaps they should quit church and take up smoking cigarettes or pot. Lol

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Sue Donovan's avatar

When I left the convent, there were so many gay ex-nuns that Nancy Manahan wrote a book about it: Lesbian Nuns: Breaking Silence. The convent was an option for young women who didn’t want to marry/have kids while living with a group of like-minded women. Today, women have many more options than they did in the bad old days so the women who choose the convent today tend to be much more right wing and conservative.

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RegularJoe's avatar

Gosh, and he didn't even put on a costume to read to the kiddies. Seems it's not just from priests being pissed because the readers have nicer dresses and wear them better.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

It's about having someone interacting and possibly influencing kids π—ͺ𝗛𝗒 π—œπ—¦ 𝗑𝗒𝗧 π—’π—‘π—˜ 𝗒𝗙 π—§π—›π—˜π— .

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Bill Wilson's avatar

True true

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NOGODZ20's avatar

All my sympathies are with Dominic Thrasher, who is going through a horror show with ALS.

Where is the RCCs compassion for Thrasher?

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Christianity and/or Catholicism choosing the heartless option every time.

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cdbunch's avatar

Where it always is, Fantasia.

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XJC's avatar

RCC: God has punished him with ALS. There you go.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Bet they wouldn't have had the same view if Held or any one of them were the ones so afflicted.

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XJC's avatar

That's the beauty of belief-based thinking, upon which religion is based: you can fit any facts to fit your fixed, false beliefs. It's a highly successful formula. Delu$ion.

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Die Anyway's avatar

Exactly right. Whatever their tribulation, it would not be punishment for misdeeds but rather God testing their faith ( ala Job ). And so rather than correcting their behavior, they suffer the punishment as a show of faith and devotion. It's an infinite loop that never corrects.

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cdbunch's avatar

Suffering is for the little people. They fly to the Europe and the U.S. to get the finest healthcare money can buy. (Lots of money, vows, smows)

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NOGODZ20's avatar

An all-knowing god that needs to test the faith of his own followers shows that he's not all-knowing.

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XJC's avatar

All knowing...but paranoid as shit.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

And jealous. He even calls himself The Lord Jealous.

Jealous of what? Dude's supposed to be all-powerful.

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XJC's avatar

This self-evident statement underscores the maxim, 'You can't explain the obvious to people who need the obvious explained.'

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XJC's avatar

Which is most of the human population.

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Bill Wilson's avatar

If the RCC wants to be the one stop shop for all spiritual needs it needs to provide rituals for: divorce, euthanasia, and sexual transformation.

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XJC's avatar

Those aren't in the playbook. Since old men with nothing better to do 1700 years ago didn't consider it, they don't count.

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Bill Wilson's avatar

Religion that does not help its culture adapt will become totally irrelevant.

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Bagen Onuts's avatar

AND it punished Chicago's cardinal George with bladder cancer.

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Bill Wilson's avatar

Well Dominic can wave $150 to $200 under a RC priest’s nose and receive compassion in the form of Last Rites.

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Munchygut's avatar

The division, lack of charity and the wounds caused by the division in the St. Joseph the Worker Parish community has brought deep sadness to the Lord Jesus..."

"Jesus weeps when he sees division and disunity in the Body of Christ, his Church."

How the hell does he know Jesus is sad or that he weeps? Did Jesus talk directly to the bishop or is he just guessing how he feels?

These guys use this woo woo to placate the believers all the time...takes a lot of nerve.

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Kathlyn's avatar

I can honestly say that I never heard a letter or statement from a British bishop say anything like that. US Catholic bishops seem to be a law unto themselves, even defying the Pope at times! (Recovering Catholic)

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Sue Donovan's avatar

There was a LOT of defiance in the American Church after Vatican II. The changes that followed as a result were rejected by conservatives as too radical.

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Runfastandwin's avatar

How much better the world would be if the church had never come into being.

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The Moonface Kid's avatar

It was the western Roman Empire’s equivalent of cutting the tube in half and scraping whatever toothpaste was left out with the toothbrush.

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Die Anyway's avatar

Uhhh....is there something wrong with that? Errr..asking for a friend.

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Julie Duggan's avatar

Or religion in general

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Runfastandwin's avatar

that's for sure!

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Sue Donovan's avatar

Very true!

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

Ah yes, the old β€œyou’re dividing the group by defending the people we hate for no reason” trope. The β€œeverything was fine before those people wanted equal rights” thinking. Keep the peace ideals only help the oppressors. It only works when you don’t see the humanity of the oppressed group. The parents defending the author are at fault for the division because they’re rocking the boat. The few parents who complained a gay entered the school and Fr Held were only doing what was acceptable for so long. How dare people try to make life better for everyone, it’s only supposed to be bearable for the select few, cis-het, white, Christian, men. Everyone else stay in your place, stop making everything political and pushing cancel culture.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Still waiting for Christians...ANY Christians...to read the 4 gospels and tell us where Jesus condemned homosexuality.

Aside from the fact that Christians don't really read the bible, it might be kind of tough for them to show such condemnation for homosexuality, as sexual orientation was not understood in biblical times. Even the word "homosexual" wasn't coined until 1868 by Karl-Maria Ketenby in a letter to Karl-Heinrich Ulrichs. And "homosexuality" never appeared in the bible until the Revised Standard Version until 1946.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

It's getting to the point where calling oneself "Christian" becomes an excuse for any behavior that person wants to insist on. Worse, considering that the bible supports both a peaceful and pugnacious point of view, such people aren't entirely wrong.

Which is why the bible needs to be rejected as a moral guide.

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The Moonface Kid's avatar

Accountability may, eventually, β€œcost money”, so, no accountability.

I would bet my entire retirement, no - my actual life that the Catholic Church ran an analysis on whether settling with their abuse victims - or having them murdered - would be more cost efficient. At least in the US. I’m sure they kill more openly (i.e., traditionally) in other places.

I have no doubts these American Bishops have, and continuously do, advocate for violent acts in the name of power. They haven’t figured out a way where it doesn’t get traced back to them, yet.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

"Recently a guest who does not represent the values of our Catholic faith..."

Values, Tommy? We've seen what Catholic "values" have meant to humanity for the last 1600 years. Values. You keep using that word...

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Len Koz's avatar

My older sister is from the generation that still believes homosexual = pedophile. I keep reminding her that she's confusing homosexuals and Catholic priests.

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wreck's avatar

"The division, lack of charity and the wounds caused by the division in the St. Joseph the Worker Parish community has brought deep sadness to the Lord Jesus"

And you know this how? Did Jessie reply to the priest's Faceborg post? Or on Xitter? Or are you just pulling something out of your ass (you know, just like your entire religion)?

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