How refreshing! Elected officials called out for hypocrisy in religious proclamations and reverse themselves, actually admitting they screwed up! Of course, it is Canada. Sure wish we could find that sort of self awareness here....
Once again, sauce for the goose is NOT a horse of a different color. If a town wishes to recognize ONE religion as an official act, it should be open to recognizing ANY religion in a similar manner OR THOSE WHO PRACTICE NO RELIGION. Astonishingly, Cobourg actually recognized that after Mr. LeDrew brought attention to their inconsistency and decided to take a more secular stand, dropping Christian Heritage Month.
Were this to happen in the United States, I think I'd drop my teeth!
If this happened in the US, there would be screaming from the pulpits and Christian citizens that they were being "oppressed" because they didn't get their way. 🙄 That okay though. Soon enough there will be a national, compulsory religion proclaimed. 😔 They'll be quite happy to oppress those who don't comply.
The expectation of Christian privilege is deeply entrenched throughout the western world, but it is beginning to erode. It certainly doesn't hurt to have their hypocrisy pointed out to the people who expect their religion to be given a preferred place in our culture.
It is so deeply entrenched because it was once legally mandatory. When it shifted to just culturally mandatory, the (extremely) slow decline of that privilege began. After two and a half centuries, we can see the cracks in the foundation, but it will still take more time than any one of us has left before the whole rotten edifice tumbles.
What amazes and pleases me immensely is that 1/3rd of Canada has woken up to the fact that religion is a big, fat, global scam. It sucks in money and spews out a variety of nonsense; from hate against the "other" to pious assurances that if you behave you'll go to a magical place to sing praises to some narcissistic celestial being constantly in need of assurance that it is loved.
I get that churches offer some a sense of community and family. But aside from the supernatural bullshit and ignorant blatherings of ancient people, they offer nothing you can't get in secular society. LET'S TRY FOR 2/3RDS!
I hope you forgive me adding the following: The rule that citizens follow the religion of their ruler was agreed in the Religious Peace of Augsburg in 1555. That treaty ended decades of warfare, which followed the Protestant reformation.
The idea, that individuals are entitled to follow their own religion was enacted much much later.
In this context it is also instructive that the first ‘proper’ settlers in North America were people who were claiming the right to follow a different religion from the established one in their home country .
(It was a good thing that I still had my atlas handy, so I could check out the Edict of Nantes, it’s on page 247. :-) :-) )
Re the revocation of Nantes, that kicked off a wave of emigration of Huguenots, who then settled in a number of places across Europe, such as London and Berlin. The ruler in Berlin actually issued an invitation to Huguenots, offering them religious tolerance if they settled in his country: He was keen to have (skilled) people come to his country, which had been devastated by the Black Death and the Thirty Years war.
Addendum, following this forced emigration some economic problems rose in France. Funny, what happens when you push away merchants who dabbled or were skilled in luxury trade.
Yes. The Huguenots were instrumental in creating porcelain manufacturing in Germany. Maybe also silk stocking weaving, I seem to remember from watching a TV drama serial. Generally, they were skilled and learned people.
PS - if you visit Berlin, there is still a ‘French Quarter’.
Wow. No one heckled Mr. LeDrew while he was speaking, no one was threatened with hellfire and damnation, no one made the situation worse by behaving like a total jackass, and no angry mob showed up to wave idiotic signs and hurl epithets. He made his case, there was some quiet discussion, and then the council did the right thing by correcting their mistake and agreeing to honor their policy. In return, Mr. LeDrew was thoughtful and gracious in speaking about his victory.
This is how it is supposed to work. Maybe not everyone was happy about it, but they all behaved like adults.
There's the problem. We got too many supposed "adults" in the States who behave like entitled, spoiled brats. Worse, a lot of 'em have money, power, and influence.
People tend to believe the loudest speaker, which (in part thanks to Citizens United) in the U.S. means whoever has the most money. And that is rarely these "grassroots" Democrats.
1. The council's staff identifies that this goes against regulation (which they did).
2. The council's staff informs the councilors of this (nobody saw this happen, but it seems a pretty sure bet).
3. The council says "this Christian month thing is a nice sentiment but we've been informed by our legal staff that it goes against regulation". They vote it down. (They didn't)
4. The second request never happens.
That break in reason and rationality between step 2 happening and step 3 not happening? That's the Christian privilege. That's why this isn't a "mistake". The councilors almost certainly knew the Christian Month thing violated their own regulations when they passed it. This was an intentional choice to violate the rules.
I was obviously responding to their willingness to correct course when Mr. LeDrew called them on it. No recriminations, nobody acting all butthurt and offended, just a few moments of discussion followed by the vote to rescind the declaration.
You are of course right that the declaration should never have happened in the first place, but whether the council members were deliberately subverting the law, or thought it was a nice harmless sentiment, or just made an honest mistake, I can't say for sure because I don't know them personally. But because they did the right thing and behaved like adults by correcting their actions in a civilized and courteous fashion instead of acting like jerks about it, I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I am so used the kkkrister/MAGA nutters screaming "PERSECUTION" in cases like this, I was shocked to see calm and rationality prevail here.
My main takeaway here is that councils and boards are not perfect, and even sane ones are going to screw up sometimes. This council screwed up, got called on it, acknowledged the screw-up, and fixed it -- all without ugliness and drama. That was what I was referring to when I said "this is how it is supposed to work."
I hope the MAGA mind virus doesn't reach this Canadian town. For now, it seems as if rationality is prevailing in the long run.
Now if only such reasoning could invade the Bible Belt states and other states that can’t seem to read or understand the 1st Amendment to our Constitution.
That's a tall order. They would have to learn to read and use their brain for something other than faux news first. Then, the biggest one, being overt with it.
Currently, we are overrun with the people who think they are blessed with right opinion. They alone know the absolute truth and they are willing to impose their 'truth' on everyone else - for their own good.
Re History: can I give a shout-out to the Penguin Atlas of World History? It’s an excellent resource if you quickly want to find out or check something: There’s a whole section on the ‘Age of Religious Discord’, starting on page 230.
I have been using this for years, after it was one of my books for history class. Then I thought it was dull, but I have really come to appreciate it. Every now and again I buy a new copy, usually because I gave mine away …. There are usually a bunch of them for sale on that (yes, that) auction website.
I hope the people of Cobourg will accept this decision and not act like the terrorists here in the USA. Not recognizing a special month for Christians is not anti Christian, but folks who feel they have rights over others tend to get violent when disabused of that notion. Canada seems to be a bit less volatile than folks in the USA, but there have been some nasty trends they’re taking up. The trucker’s march, and some of the MAGA rhetoric has seeped over the border. Nip it in the bud. And this is a good step toward that end.
Hi, I’m Bob, the person Hemant spoke with on this story. I have received a ton of positive feedback on this issue, and a couple of drops of anonymous trolling. I believe there’s a huge amount of support for keeping things secular here.
That’s great. Here in the good ole USA folks would get death threats for even trying to bring up atheists. And the councilmembers would have death threats and violence directed at their children for voting to not kowtow to Christians. There was a school board in Minnesota that voted in a meeting to not say the pledge before every meeting, a thing they started less than a year earlier, and the threats were so bad that the board voted unanimously the very next meeting to reinstate the pledge without discussion. Families have had to move and change their names to avoid certain attention after fighting for their constitutional rights of religious freedom. All that was before the current Christian nationalist coup started.
I hope the vast majority of Canadians reject those nasty trends. I look to Canada as a bastion of sanity (compared to us, anyway.) I fear if Canada goes off the cliff as well, there will be no hope of either government coming back from that. Not to mention, no place to flee for those who have the means and literally need a place of safety.
In the Western world every month is Christian Heritage Month. Time to build non-churches for atheists to congregate and sing in. Religious churches have enjoyed a monopoly on community events for far too long. Now it's our time. Just need some wealthy benefactors to build and maintain them.
'Hopefully now, they won’t make the same mistake in the future."
Unlike you, je n'ai pas à prendre des gants. I call bullshit on this one. Especially when the town council/staff rejected an Atheist request for equal treatment.
Be ready for this town to sneak another "christain* awareness month" under another name. And to misquote Shakespeare, it will stink the same.
* The only one acceptable would be one showing the bad next to the good from the closure and destruction of Pagan temples (313) to numerous sex and abuse scandals up to 21th century.
Hi there! I’m the troublemaker in question here! I honestly don’t think you will see a repeat of this incident in Cobourg any time soon. Discussions with several member of council leave me with the impression that they realize they erred. Now, we have regular elections, so a new council could try to make new policy. But I and others will be watching.
I hope you are right. I have seen too many councils and school boards do the right thing then backtrack to doing the wrong thing because the local Christians screamed loudly enough.
And there would be an angry mob of MAGAts and kkkristers waving signs, shouting threats, hurling epithets, and throwing tantrums. "PER-SE-CU-SHUN!!!!!!"
I have several ideas about Christian heritage. I like to send Christmas cards every year. They usually featured my cats until my cats died. And then they feature my husband and me. Neither of us are dead yet, so I’ll continue that until we are.
I also like Christian heritage in music. Every year, on Christmas Day, I listen to a Christmas cantata by Ralph Vaughan Williams called Hodie. The actual Jesus stuff is not very good, but the music is wonderful.He also wrote a very beautiful mass 100 years ago. He was an atheist, but as he said, there’s no reason why an atheist can’t write a perfectly good mass.
That’s all the Christian heritage that I have any inclination to celebrate. Anything more, especially coming from the government, and I would think that you’re trying to shove your religion into my life where it isn’t wanted.
I don't care much for the Jesus music, but my most favorite is the Misa Criolla by Los Fronterizos. I am a Recovering Christian, but this music is just heavenly. I also love I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus! And any of you who would like to join my 'church' are free to do so, I belong to The Church of the Holy Sidewalk. Go walking and thank Ma Nature for all the beauty you see and hear!!! No thithes, no rules, don't even need a sidewalk.
Can I quote Jesus as a response? He said ‘Give Caesar what is Caesar’s’ - in my understanding he makes a difference between private issues and the public realm. And the public realm should be secular.
(I agree with you, in case that this is not obvious)
Yes to holiday cards. A Big Yes to music. I'd add: the cathedrals are cool, especially when they are literally older than the US. :) I have no problem with the European secular governments putting money towards their upkeep...so long as that means they can be open for reasonable ceremonial use (i.e. marriages) by the public.
Easter egg hunts for the kiddies are cool. But those are probably more "caretaker Christian" than "original Christian". I.e., older festivals carried forward by Christians when they became dominant.
Rescinding "Hurray for privileged christian month" is a perfect example of how the bible thumpers would rather give up a proposed month in their honor to avoid extending that to other religious or non-religious groups. My mom used to say, "Cutting off your nose to spite your face."
And this is, in part, one of the reasons The Satanic Temple exists, to expose and challenge the hypocrisy of god-botherers; whether it be in establishing special days, or prayers before council meetings. And more than one city council has decided to remove prayer, opting rather for a "moment of silence and reflection" before meetings. Because gawd hep them if they have to listen to an invocation by a pagan or a Satanist.
I'm good with that. It's so weird to me that these 'true believers' can't see the beam in their own eye, but that's probably because there's a telephone pole lodged in their eye socket.
"Mistake"?? Oooohkay, if that's what gets this done, we won't point fingers.
it's possible that none of them knew the regulation until they got the atheist request and then they went looking for a way to stop it. But it's much more probable that the councilmember(s) who wrote the rejection knew the policy when those same councilmember(s) voted to approve the Christian month. The vote was unanimous, so if any member knew the reg, then we know at least one member knowingly voted in violation of it...and maybe worse, didn't tell the other councilmembers about the regulation ahead of the vote.
Someone got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, but since calling them out would make it harder to work with them in the future, everyone's going to pretend it was an accident. Which is fine, so long as the rest of the council keeps a close eye on the cookie thief (i.e. the councilmember illegally discriminating against atheism), because they are going to try again.
Hi there: “Bob the activist” here, aka the guy Hemant spoke with. The one thing not quite clear in the story is that the person advocating for Christian Heritage Month was rejected by staff due to the policy in place (as they should have). She then chose to ask for a delegation in front of committee, and then delegation to council. I didn’t notice the request from her until it was passed. I asked the councillor who made the motion to proclaim why he did it and if he knew of the policy. His entire response to me was, and I quote “I voted in favour as it did not promote religion but the history in Ontario.”
My request for Atheism Awareness Day was rejected by staff for the same reason as they rejected the CHM request. Hence my delegation.
Thanks for the info! And thanks for your effort on behalf of folks (both religious and not) wanting government to stay secular.
That councillor sure knew how to give a non-aswer, didn't he?
I mean, we can expect that the staff informed the councillors of why the staff initially rejected it. So it really sounds like he knew, but wouldn't admit to you that he knew. That is not a "mistake." A mistake would be "the staff didn't tell us it was against policy so it sounded like a just a nice gesture to us."
To our northern neighbors...
You cannot even give a millimeter with fundamentalists no matter how harmless it seems or you will end up like us.
Sincerely,
A voice from inside the asylum
But Trump sez Canadians all want to be our 51st state! He's da prez, he wouldn't lie to us! /s
Trumpy lying to us? Perish the thought!
I need a coma nap, wake me up when he tells the truth.
The oncoming meteor will finish us off before that happens.
https://www.zentaur.org/memes/sane_asylum.jpeg
Welcome to the future.
How refreshing! Elected officials called out for hypocrisy in religious proclamations and reverse themselves, actually admitting they screwed up! Of course, it is Canada. Sure wish we could find that sort of self awareness here....
This is my town!! Very proud of Bob
Nice.
Once again, sauce for the goose is NOT a horse of a different color. If a town wishes to recognize ONE religion as an official act, it should be open to recognizing ANY religion in a similar manner OR THOSE WHO PRACTICE NO RELIGION. Astonishingly, Cobourg actually recognized that after Mr. LeDrew brought attention to their inconsistency and decided to take a more secular stand, dropping Christian Heritage Month.
Were this to happen in the United States, I think I'd drop my teeth!
But if it’s not a horse of a different color, then is sauce for the goose sauce for the propaganda?
I bet you didn’t think of that.
I thought about thinking about it ... then I thought better of it and didn't! 😁
Have you tried Poligrip?
Take a gander at those saucy geese!
If this happened in the US, there would be screaming from the pulpits and Christian citizens that they were being "oppressed" because they didn't get their way. 🙄 That okay though. Soon enough there will be a national, compulsory religion proclaimed. 😔 They'll be quite happy to oppress those who don't comply.
They’re already doing that.
The expectation of Christian privilege is deeply entrenched throughout the western world, but it is beginning to erode. It certainly doesn't hurt to have their hypocrisy pointed out to the people who expect their religion to be given a preferred place in our culture.
It is so deeply entrenched because it was once legally mandatory. When it shifted to just culturally mandatory, the (extremely) slow decline of that privilege began. After two and a half centuries, we can see the cracks in the foundation, but it will still take more time than any one of us has left before the whole rotten edifice tumbles.
What amazes and pleases me immensely is that 1/3rd of Canada has woken up to the fact that religion is a big, fat, global scam. It sucks in money and spews out a variety of nonsense; from hate against the "other" to pious assurances that if you behave you'll go to a magical place to sing praises to some narcissistic celestial being constantly in need of assurance that it is loved.
I get that churches offer some a sense of community and family. But aside from the supernatural bullshit and ignorant blatherings of ancient people, they offer nothing you can't get in secular society. LET'S TRY FOR 2/3RDS!
Nothing divides people as effectively and unnecessarily as does religion.
I hope you forgive me adding the following: The rule that citizens follow the religion of their ruler was agreed in the Religious Peace of Augsburg in 1555. That treaty ended decades of warfare, which followed the Protestant reformation.
The idea, that individuals are entitled to follow their own religion was enacted much much later.
In this context it is also instructive that the first ‘proper’ settlers in North America were people who were claiming the right to follow a different religion from the established one in their home country .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Nantes
Sadly, his grandson terminated it with the edict of Fontainebleau less than a century later.
I have just checked, the atlas has been translated into French, but I can’t find its title.
(It was a good thing that I still had my atlas handy, so I could check out the Edict of Nantes, it’s on page 247. :-) :-) )
Re the revocation of Nantes, that kicked off a wave of emigration of Huguenots, who then settled in a number of places across Europe, such as London and Berlin. The ruler in Berlin actually issued an invitation to Huguenots, offering them religious tolerance if they settled in his country: He was keen to have (skilled) people come to his country, which had been devastated by the Black Death and the Thirty Years war.
Addendum, following this forced emigration some economic problems rose in France. Funny, what happens when you push away merchants who dabbled or were skilled in luxury trade.
Yes. The Huguenots were instrumental in creating porcelain manufacturing in Germany. Maybe also silk stocking weaving, I seem to remember from watching a TV drama serial. Generally, they were skilled and learned people.
PS - if you visit Berlin, there is still a ‘French Quarter’.
That's my one regret, that I'm probably too old to see that happen.
Wow. No one heckled Mr. LeDrew while he was speaking, no one was threatened with hellfire and damnation, no one made the situation worse by behaving like a total jackass, and no angry mob showed up to wave idiotic signs and hurl epithets. He made his case, there was some quiet discussion, and then the council did the right thing by correcting their mistake and agreeing to honor their policy. In return, Mr. LeDrew was thoughtful and gracious in speaking about his victory.
This is how it is supposed to work. Maybe not everyone was happy about it, but they all behaved like adults.
There's the problem. We got too many supposed "adults" in the States who behave like entitled, spoiled brats. Worse, a lot of 'em have money, power, and influence.
What we do about that is a legitimate question.
People tend to believe the loudest speaker, which (in part thanks to Citizens United) in the U.S. means whoever has the most money. And that is rarely these "grassroots" Democrats.
Too bad we don't have a whole slew of Jasmine Crocketts in every state. I'd dare to feel hopeful in that case.
How it's supposed to work is:
1. The council's staff identifies that this goes against regulation (which they did).
2. The council's staff informs the councilors of this (nobody saw this happen, but it seems a pretty sure bet).
3. The council says "this Christian month thing is a nice sentiment but we've been informed by our legal staff that it goes against regulation". They vote it down. (They didn't)
4. The second request never happens.
That break in reason and rationality between step 2 happening and step 3 not happening? That's the Christian privilege. That's why this isn't a "mistake". The councilors almost certainly knew the Christian Month thing violated their own regulations when they passed it. This was an intentional choice to violate the rules.
I was obviously responding to their willingness to correct course when Mr. LeDrew called them on it. No recriminations, nobody acting all butthurt and offended, just a few moments of discussion followed by the vote to rescind the declaration.
You are of course right that the declaration should never have happened in the first place, but whether the council members were deliberately subverting the law, or thought it was a nice harmless sentiment, or just made an honest mistake, I can't say for sure because I don't know them personally. But because they did the right thing and behaved like adults by correcting their actions in a civilized and courteous fashion instead of acting like jerks about it, I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I am so used the kkkrister/MAGA nutters screaming "PERSECUTION" in cases like this, I was shocked to see calm and rationality prevail here.
My main takeaway here is that councils and boards are not perfect, and even sane ones are going to screw up sometimes. This council screwed up, got called on it, acknowledged the screw-up, and fixed it -- all without ugliness and drama. That was what I was referring to when I said "this is how it is supposed to work."
I hope the MAGA mind virus doesn't reach this Canadian town. For now, it seems as if rationality is prevailing in the long run.
Now if only such reasoning could invade the Bible Belt states and other states that can’t seem to read or understand the 1st Amendment to our Constitution.
That's a tall order. They would have to learn science and history first. Then, the biggest ask, learning ethics.
That's a tall order. They would have to learn to read and use their brain for something other than faux news first. Then, the biggest one, being overt with it.
Currently, we are overrun with the people who think they are blessed with right opinion. They alone know the absolute truth and they are willing to impose their 'truth' on everyone else - for their own good.
Welcome to the Wonderful Wiggy World of the Dunning-Kruger effect! 😝
The biggest impediment to their learning is the Bible that was shoved into their brain as a child.
If they learned ethics it would be because they want to know how to misuse it.
they would have to learn to read comprehensively first.
Actually - it’s not a textbook, it’s an atlas: It’s full of maps, charts and graphs. Rather easy to follow.
Re History: can I give a shout-out to the Penguin Atlas of World History? It’s an excellent resource if you quickly want to find out or check something: There’s a whole section on the ‘Age of Religious Discord’, starting on page 230.
I have been using this for years, after it was one of my books for history class. Then I thought it was dull, but I have really come to appreciate it. Every now and again I buy a new copy, usually because I gave mine away …. There are usually a bunch of them for sale on that (yes, that) auction website.
I hope the people of Cobourg will accept this decision and not act like the terrorists here in the USA. Not recognizing a special month for Christians is not anti Christian, but folks who feel they have rights over others tend to get violent when disabused of that notion. Canada seems to be a bit less volatile than folks in the USA, but there have been some nasty trends they’re taking up. The trucker’s march, and some of the MAGA rhetoric has seeped over the border. Nip it in the bud. And this is a good step toward that end.
Hi, I’m Bob, the person Hemant spoke with on this story. I have received a ton of positive feedback on this issue, and a couple of drops of anonymous trolling. I believe there’s a huge amount of support for keeping things secular here.
I like the sound of that. Thanks for your input! 👍
That’s great. Here in the good ole USA folks would get death threats for even trying to bring up atheists. And the councilmembers would have death threats and violence directed at their children for voting to not kowtow to Christians. There was a school board in Minnesota that voted in a meeting to not say the pledge before every meeting, a thing they started less than a year earlier, and the threats were so bad that the board voted unanimously the very next meeting to reinstate the pledge without discussion. Families have had to move and change their names to avoid certain attention after fighting for their constitutional rights of religious freedom. All that was before the current Christian nationalist coup started.
That’s not right. I argue with people all the time, but. I believe strongly that we should be able to disagree while being civil.
“Being civil” has always been the Right’s problem. Everyone has to be civil to them, but they don’t see the need to be civil to everyone else.
I hope the vast majority of Canadians reject those nasty trends. I look to Canada as a bastion of sanity (compared to us, anyway.) I fear if Canada goes off the cliff as well, there will be no hope of either government coming back from that. Not to mention, no place to flee for those who have the means and literally need a place of safety.
In the Western world every month is Christian Heritage Month. Time to build non-churches for atheists to congregate and sing in. Religious churches have enjoyed a monopoly on community events for far too long. Now it's our time. Just need some wealthy benefactors to build and maintain them.
'Hopefully now, they won’t make the same mistake in the future."
Unlike you, je n'ai pas à prendre des gants. I call bullshit on this one. Especially when the town council/staff rejected an Atheist request for equal treatment.
Be ready for this town to sneak another "christain* awareness month" under another name. And to misquote Shakespeare, it will stink the same.
* The only one acceptable would be one showing the bad next to the good from the closure and destruction of Pagan temples (313) to numerous sex and abuse scandals up to 21th century.
Yeah, I'm betting we see an update to this story within the next two weeks.
Hi there! I’m the troublemaker in question here! I honestly don’t think you will see a repeat of this incident in Cobourg any time soon. Discussions with several member of council leave me with the impression that they realize they erred. Now, we have regular elections, so a new council could try to make new policy. But I and others will be watching.
I hope you are right. I have seen too many councils and school boards do the right thing then backtrack to doing the wrong thing because the local Christians screamed loudly enough.
Time will tell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y7ilsAg5C8
I know I’m going to take a nice deep breath and enjoy this moment of secular reasoning. Who knows what tomorrow might bring.
Down here in the Benighted States, it'd probably take TST showing up to play before we'd get a result like that.
And there would be an angry mob of MAGAts and kkkristers waving signs, shouting threats, hurling epithets, and throwing tantrums. "PER-SE-CU-SHUN!!!!!!"
I have several ideas about Christian heritage. I like to send Christmas cards every year. They usually featured my cats until my cats died. And then they feature my husband and me. Neither of us are dead yet, so I’ll continue that until we are.
I also like Christian heritage in music. Every year, on Christmas Day, I listen to a Christmas cantata by Ralph Vaughan Williams called Hodie. The actual Jesus stuff is not very good, but the music is wonderful.He also wrote a very beautiful mass 100 years ago. He was an atheist, but as he said, there’s no reason why an atheist can’t write a perfectly good mass.
That’s all the Christian heritage that I have any inclination to celebrate. Anything more, especially coming from the government, and I would think that you’re trying to shove your religion into my life where it isn’t wanted.
I don't care much for the Jesus music, but my most favorite is the Misa Criolla by Los Fronterizos. I am a Recovering Christian, but this music is just heavenly. I also love I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus! And any of you who would like to join my 'church' are free to do so, I belong to The Church of the Holy Sidewalk. Go walking and thank Ma Nature for all the beauty you see and hear!!! No thithes, no rules, don't even need a sidewalk.
You don’t need a sidewalk? What blasphemy is this!
just change the name to Church of the Holy Path, or whatever brings you happiness and an appreciation of our Earth. no blasphemy! ;-)
Church of the Holy Stroll. You’d be Holy Strollers.
Can I quote Jesus as a response? He said ‘Give Caesar what is Caesar’s’ - in my understanding he makes a difference between private issues and the public realm. And the public realm should be secular.
(I agree with you, in case that this is not obvious)
"I'm not dead yet!" 😉
Of course, if you were, that’s exactly what you would say, isn’t it?
Yes to holiday cards. A Big Yes to music. I'd add: the cathedrals are cool, especially when they are literally older than the US. :) I have no problem with the European secular governments putting money towards their upkeep...so long as that means they can be open for reasonable ceremonial use (i.e. marriages) by the public.
Easter egg hunts for the kiddies are cool. But those are probably more "caretaker Christian" than "original Christian". I.e., older festivals carried forward by Christians when they became dominant.
I agree with that 100%.
Canada is the best friend any nation has ever had or COULD ever have, and we here in the United States should treat them accordingly.
Rescinding "Hurray for privileged christian month" is a perfect example of how the bible thumpers would rather give up a proposed month in their honor to avoid extending that to other religious or non-religious groups. My mom used to say, "Cutting off your nose to spite your face."
And this is, in part, one of the reasons The Satanic Temple exists, to expose and challenge the hypocrisy of god-botherers; whether it be in establishing special days, or prayers before council meetings. And more than one city council has decided to remove prayer, opting rather for a "moment of silence and reflection" before meetings. Because gawd hep them if they have to listen to an invocation by a pagan or a Satanist.
I'm good with that. It's so weird to me that these 'true believers' can't see the beam in their own eye, but that's probably because there's a telephone pole lodged in their eye socket.
𝐼𝑡’𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑛𝑢𝑑𝑔𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑒𝑞𝑢𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑖𝑡 𝑡𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑙 𝑚𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑧𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑚𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑚𝑜𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑
"Mistake"?? Oooohkay, if that's what gets this done, we won't point fingers.
it's possible that none of them knew the regulation until they got the atheist request and then they went looking for a way to stop it. But it's much more probable that the councilmember(s) who wrote the rejection knew the policy when those same councilmember(s) voted to approve the Christian month. The vote was unanimous, so if any member knew the reg, then we know at least one member knowingly voted in violation of it...and maybe worse, didn't tell the other councilmembers about the regulation ahead of the vote.
Someone got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, but since calling them out would make it harder to work with them in the future, everyone's going to pretend it was an accident. Which is fine, so long as the rest of the council keeps a close eye on the cookie thief (i.e. the councilmember illegally discriminating against atheism), because they are going to try again.
Hi there: “Bob the activist” here, aka the guy Hemant spoke with. The one thing not quite clear in the story is that the person advocating for Christian Heritage Month was rejected by staff due to the policy in place (as they should have). She then chose to ask for a delegation in front of committee, and then delegation to council. I didn’t notice the request from her until it was passed. I asked the councillor who made the motion to proclaim why he did it and if he knew of the policy. His entire response to me was, and I quote “I voted in favour as it did not promote religion but the history in Ontario.”
My request for Atheism Awareness Day was rejected by staff for the same reason as they rejected the CHM request. Hence my delegation.
Thanks for the info! And thanks for your effort on behalf of folks (both religious and not) wanting government to stay secular.
That councillor sure knew how to give a non-aswer, didn't he?
I mean, we can expect that the staff informed the councillors of why the staff initially rejected it. So it really sounds like he knew, but wouldn't admit to you that he knew. That is not a "mistake." A mistake would be "the staff didn't tell us it was against policy so it sounded like a just a nice gesture to us."
The councillor's position can be shortened to the French word du jour "billevesée" (bullshit).