308 Comments

Once people become convinced they're operating under divine sanction, they can rationalize an excuse for any horror. They create elaborate arguments to defend things like what they did to this poor girl, while never being able to grasp the net effects of their actions. The idea they know what Jesus wants has been the source of immense human misery.

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They honestly believe that Sam was being punished by god for her sins, and that her prolonged suffering was actually a blessing and will help her get into heaven.

This is how these lunatics think.

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They felt the same way about the millions of people, especially women, they tortured and burned alive during the Middle Ages. That practice didn't end because the church saw the errors of its ways, but because the rise of secular governments ended the practice.

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Not to forget 20th century India under Mother Teresa‘s „care“.

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And it is well known that Agnes Bojaxhiu had a serious jones on about other people's suffering.

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Too many of them are on sadistic power trips. One might call it a "god complex".

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Jun 19·edited Jun 19

And she got a nobel price when I was in school. When I learned more about her, that price smelled bad.

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Middle Ages… 15th century France… 17th century England (Bloody Mary) 16th and 17th century America… basically the last 1,000 years until recently.

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Alito used the interpretation of English common law by a note witch hunter to justify Dobbs,

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But you know, it’s gods will. 🙄

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Fuck gods

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Is there an extra space in that?

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The part that makes me laugh is when they try to convince us they are right by saying “God spoke to them!”. Sure.

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So much to unpack here. Canada seems enlightened with its MAID policy, but obviously there are glitches in its implementation. I watched the video and was sad that the compassionate palliative care doctor had not been treating her instead of the heartless people who moved her.

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Let's keep rising! This has to end!

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I have only one answer to bigotry 🖕

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Didn't stop Mother Teresa from seeking western health care to avoid the suffering she inflicted on others.

The RCC screws over its parishioners from birth to death; making lives worse. But it has been pointed out that people who aren't suffering don't tend to seek out the help of the gods.

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Sheer fucking lunacy from a bunch of dictator wannabes.

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Rationalize? Excuse? Some of those fuckers 𝘳𝘦𝘫𝘰𝘪𝘤𝘦 in the horrors they visit on people.

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If you're a pedophile, a church is a great place to hunt.

If you're a sadist... well, same thing.

That "church" should have been dismantled long ago. But people like the tradition, the fancy priest outfits, a sense of belonging to the past. I'm sure they don't stay for the child molesting priests and the sick glorification of other people's suffering.

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Indeed.

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Nothing says 'religion of love' like forcing a dying woman to suffer intense pain against her will. That'll put butts in seats for sure. /s

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I have a different understanding than you do. I do not believe Christianity is the Church of Jesus but is the Church of Paul, whom I think was a con man. In addition, it appears to be the church of the gospels who authors are unknown but written long after the supposed death of the mythic Jesus and heavily influenced by the preachings of Paul even though Paul never wrote about the life of Jesus.

Apparently somewhere in one of the Gospels Jesus has a line that some scholars interpret as Jesus denying Yahweh as his father and further suggesting—according to these scholars—that The father of Jesus may have been El. Sorry my mind does not remember exact references.

“….Catholic hospital said she deserved to suffer.” No shit. When the church sees the father as YAHWEY, a vengeful, hateful god, then they believe we are all sinners and deserve to suffer. This is the idiomatic belief of Christianity and why Christianity is really the Church of Hate and Evil.

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I don't know how anyone could take an objective look at the life of Paul and not conclude there was at least an even chance he was insane. Fanaticism appears to be his only consistent character trait.

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If Satan were real, he'd still be laughing about launching an entire religion with a batshit insane nut job bashing the champagne bottle on the bow.

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In high school I read Mark Twain’s “letters from the earth” where Lucifer or Satan—same entity—was sent to earth to observe humanity and humanities beliefs. He was incredulous. We need a Mark Twain to update that work. Like you, I’m guessing he would be rolling on the ground with so much laughter it would hurt.

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Yanno, if I read a bunch of Mark Twain's work all at once (Brian the dog interjects, his real name was Samuel Clemens, lol) I could sort of write like him.

And I often feel like a spectator on this silly planet full of mad ground-apes.

I should go read that again, I was hooked on Mark Twain in high school, but that was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

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A long time ago for me, also. I recently repurchased it to read it again. Today seems like a good time to start.

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Read Anne Rice's "Memnoch the Devil".

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It seems to me I read a short story he wrote about God but it was called Dog, and I've been looking for it and I can't find it. Does anyone remember that or else I'll look up the other story mentioned. Mark Twain was great.

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That is certainly my opinion.

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If he existed, the incident on Damas road is a good example.

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Hear! Hear!

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Absolutely! I have lively discussions with my son-in-law about this.

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I saw my typos so I’m happy that what I was saying was comprehensible. I hope your discussions are civil and thoughtful since they are with family members.

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Extremely comprehensible and thought-provoking!

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You are as gracious with note above as you are insightful with your many comments. Thank you for above and thank you for your comments.

It seems like no one is covering your eyes with mythological bullshit 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

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Not since I was 13, brother! It's odd, but my refusal to attend church any more seems to have coincided with our study of Greek myths in English class.

The Greek myths were far superior... Hail Poseidon!

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He was an assistant pastor but is also an attorney so he understands logic, but…his father was a pastor and he finds it hard to get past what he was taught all his life. We are very civil in our discussions I think n part because there are so many things we agree on politically.

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Just my humble opinion but logic alone can be a tool of deception.* I could get into the history of Logic starting from Aristotles’s missing middle to the more reasonable idea of fuzzy or probabilistic logic but that is beyond the scope of this thread. He appears to be open- minded even though having been indoctrinated so that is good.

*I spent 25 years as an expert witness testifying in court and have a lot of experience on how logic can be and is abused by attorneys.

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Maybe “reason” would have been a better word. Like so many brought up in Christian churches, he’s accepted what he was taught without ever thinking about it. When I point out the many, many inconsistencies, he is forced to think about them.

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Being a Doc, I came to realize the restrictions on end-of-life care in catholic facilities. I experienced it directly last Fall when my 92 year old Mom suffered a catastrophic stroke which didn't kill her (She was a tough old bird). I told the paramedics she was a DNR and had a living will and to take her to Saint Joseph Hospital - it had always been her choice... They asked me to reconsider and send her to Central Baptist - that it would be better for her. I went along with them and she got diagnosed and sent to the floor with a palliative care and Hospice consult. I came to find out she would have been sent to the ICU at St. Joe's and they would have spared nothing to drag out her end. The catholics really do take that whole 'suffering is good for the soul' thing dead seriously. I just do not get the institutional cruelty thing.

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Jun 19·edited Jun 19

"I just do not get the institutional cruelty thing."

If one worships the person who created hell, any other horror is just a faint echo of adoration.

(Edited to clarify what I was trying to say.)

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𝐼𝑓 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑝𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑙, 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 ℎ𝑜𝑟𝑟𝑜𝑟 𝑖𝑠 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑎 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑡 𝑒𝑐ℎ𝑜 𝑜𝑓 𝑎𝑑𝑜𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛.

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

THIS!!!!!!!!!

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I never got the dying and rising god motif.

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It’s a take on the pagan passing of seasons. The world “dies” over winter; the sun fades to shorter and shorter days. The rituals bring the sun back, which causes the world to “live” again in the spring. Some rituals include a mother god with her son dying and being reborn. Pre-science people tried to explain their world any way they could. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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There’s an echo of this in John 12, 23-25

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

What this actually shows is the author’s lack of agricultural and biological knowledge. The seed is still alive. A dead seed will not sprout but seeds do have a long survival time.

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Forget Hell, condemning someone who hates their life to keep it eternally. That's a level of sadism even the Ghoul of Kolkatta can't match.

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It is pretty obvious that the people who wrote the bible were low information types.

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Fanatics usually are.

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You haven't met SF/Fantasy fans, have you? They remember every word you ever wrote and know exactly where your science is incorrect, you typo'd a character's name or changed their backstory to better fit the current story.

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Sentenced to Hell for the "sin" of being an imperfect creation..... The "morality" of a creator monster that would eternally torture sentient beings for the errors of that monster is far below absent....it's, at best, abhorrent.

Nope, not joining that mythology fanclub anytime soon.

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Instead of allowing her to pass naturally, their God's apparent will, they would have forced her to stay alive longer with machines to prolong her suffering. They are gleeful sadists, not a healthcare facility.

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I was the last of the 3 kids to get there - it was a 600 mile drive - I held her hand and told her it was OK to let go and go be with Dad. She passed quietly 2 hours later. Hitchens told us Mother Teresa would only give aspirin to dying people instead of morphine which is also very cheap.

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And as has been noted by better than me, she certainly didn't stint when it came to her own health care.

Presumably witnessing the painful death of others was as much suffering as god saw fit for her. Mysterious ways and all that.

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Hypocrisy on top of the sadism? Who would have thought?/ s

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"Mysterious ways," my ass! She had exactly ZERO desire to suffer the way her patients did and would avoid that at all costs!

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That bitch is the poster child for the cruelty.

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And the former president Bush Sr. along with so many evangelical leaders lauded her the same way they laud ElDumpo today.

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They're businessmen. And the Disease Care Industry's biggest cash cow is dying patients.

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Yes, that's another part of it..... squeeze everything dollar out of that dying person and insurance companies. But if patient has a DNR or requested medically assisted suicide and the hospital refuses to honor, thus providing unnecessary, very expensive, procedures that the patient never wanted to begin with......then the insurance company should refuse to pay the hospital. Life insurance policies don't pay out if they believe there was criminal activity involved in the death of their insured customer policy. Rather, Canada Health should not reimburse the hospital.

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You were lucky the paramedic spoke up. Makes me think ze had been in a similar situation.

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Medical care seems to have become highly problematic when the MBA’s replaced the concept of healing with the drive for higher profits.

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Jun 19·edited Jun 19

Religious facilities here in the states have been denying women miscarriage treatment (D&C) even before roe was overturned. A very alarming trend is advent health buying up gobs and gobs of rural and even big facilities around the Midwest (I live in Kansas). Advent is run by the 7th day adventis lunatics. It’s happening in other pro-choice states as well- hospitals being taken over by the catholic church. While I have no proof, I feel like this is all tied to the anti abortion movement and is a way to ban abortion in pro-choice states.

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Churches need to be banned from the healthcare business.

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Absolutely banned from practicing healthcare....... if they cannot fulfill every single medical need and/or requirement, then their license should be revoked.

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This, this, this and this^^^

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I'm inclined to agree. At this point I'm convinced that the only involvement a church should have in healthcare is providing the contact info for chaplains, priests, etc. so patients can have last rites performed if they so wish.

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Oh, it absolutely is. The Church hasn't been subtle about it. In a secular s9ciety, no religious organization should be allowed to run a hospital. And inspire of their smug protestations, they aren't doing it for charity--you'lll get a $25,000 bill from a Catholic or Adventist hospital just the same as at any other.

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It probably is. The movement for making evil to every heathen, wich is everybody not them.

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It's the Baptist here, the really bad ones.

You might want to read Jessica Valenti's substack she is following all their fuckery including what you said.

"National Nurses United (NNU) released a report showing how Ascension is fueling the U.S. maternal mortality crisis. In fact, NNU called Ascension, which has 140 hospitals in 19 states, “one of the nation’s worst offenders for closing obstetrics units.” From their report:

“Over the past decade, our analysis found that Ascension has eliminated obstetrics services at 16 hospitals, slashing approximately 26 percent of its labor and delivery departments it previously provided in 2012. Since 2022 alone, Ascension has shuttered five maternity wards, all in moderately-to-highly concentrated health care markets.

...The reality is that companies like Ascension are inextricably linked to abortion bans. They’re both part of the same system that prioritizes extremist religious ideology over women’s lives.

Establishing religious health facilities that deny women care—whether they’re hospitals or crisis pregnancy centers—is also key to the anti-abortion movement’s national strategy. Think of them as the movement’s enforcement arm: even if state legislation ends up making reproductive healthcare more accessible, anti-abortion activists can rely on these hospital systems and centers to do their work for them."

https://jessica.substack.com/p/the-catholic-hospital-system-killing?utm_source=publication-search

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Already read it today! And I love her work

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Somewhere she covered the takeover and /or one of her marvelous commenters did.

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Mostly OT: I was in a town in WV today and noticed a single tombstone near the sidewalk on the property of a Catholic Church. The inscription was something like “In memory of innocent victims of abortion”.

I rolled my eyes.

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Once again, we see that West Virginia is NOT "almost heaven."

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"The question now is whether a faith-based, taxpayer-funded hospital should be exempt from laws that involve patient care."

No. If an institution accept taxpayers money, then they accept the rules that go with it.

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🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯

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There's something gravely wrong when we treat pets with more mercy and compassion than we do our fellow human beings.

I cannot believe that a good deity that loved humanity would approve of that.

Of course, I can't really believe that a good deity that loved humanity would allow people to meet such a horribly, painful end either.

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The Cruelty Is The Point.

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I think that simple, five-word phrase needs to be a part of any discussion regarding religiously affiliated hospitals and public funds. When dogma and doctrine are placed above patient well being, the potential for conflict becomes glaringly obvious.

Those who allocated those funds to St. Paul's failed to see that, and that is why I see them as equally culpable in Samantha O'Neill's unnecessary suffering.

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It’s interesting to me how selective certain Christians are about their moral absolutes.

“Don’t kill (or murder)”. Well, ok, but here’s a long list of exceptions to that command.

“Welcome the stranger.” Sure, but only if they’re legally here and have needed work skills.

“Remember the Sabbath.” Shut up, the game is on.

“Don’t charge interest and forgive all debts every seven years.” Are you insane?

But here we have a moral principle of “everyone has moral worth, including the sick and disabled” and we are going to adhere to that principle no matter how much you have to lie there in agony and bankrupt your family with medical debt.

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Jun 19·edited Jun 20

Given the track record of Catholic hospitals (especially when it comes to women and unwanted pregnancies), the RCC needs to get out of healthcare and stay out.

As we see here with Samantha O'Neill here, they are completely incapable of providing compassionate, competent healthcare.

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They are 𝘤𝘢𝘱𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 of competent healthcare, it's the lack of compassion that stops them.

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B B But suffering makes you closer to their evil mascot. That is the twisted thinking of their superstitious malarkey.

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They absolutely are not when it comes to women's reproductive healthcare. They are letting women suffer rather than give standard of care.

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They aren't incapable of providing it, they're unwilling. I believe that was the point Joe was trying to make.

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I hope the O'Neills win the lawsuit.

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Jun 19·edited Jun 19

This is so wrong on so many levels. There are only two certainties in life: death and taxes and even the latter can be evaded if rich or criminal enough. Allowing people the final say over their own death is the least society can do.

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Now you are compassionate AND using logic. I really don't think we can expect that from a catholic owned hospital.

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Compassion does not exist in kkkatlik bizzaro world. CONTROL is the only thing the superstitious assholes understand.

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god damn catholic church I swear to pete

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I have to wonder. If St. Paul’s Hospital was and is getting public funds, why aren't they required by law to follow public policy? And if they refuse to allow qualified candidates for death with dignity to see their desires implemented, WHY ARE THEY GETTING PUBLIC FUNDS?!? I find that I have to repeat Hemant's question:

𝑊ℎ𝑦 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑝 𝑢𝑝 𝑎 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑝𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠𝑛’𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑢𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐?

Seems to me that this was an obvious potential problem that wasn't observed or anticipated before Samantha arrived at St. Paul's. Treating a Catholic hospital as any other medical institution in this day and age is an act of severe naivete, particularly as regards reproductive health and euthanasia issues. Someone let the ball drop, and as a result, Ms. O'Neill was left to suffer when that wasn't necessary.

Certainly, St. Paul's deserves to be on the business end of a lawsuit ... but they're not the only offenders here.

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Some hospitals here in the states hide their Catholic affiliation.

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If they DO hide it and an incident such as what happened at St. Paul's were to occur, I think the feces would hit the rotating blades in a WHOLE NEW FASHION!

And I would NOT want to be a lawyer representing that hospital!

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They are not the only ones sued. It seems Samantha's parents wonder the same thing.

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The idea that God wants us to suffer in the end is nonsense. We suffer enough in this life. I want control over my own life, especially if there is no hope for recovery. The Church is all about control. The hospitals and nursing homes are big business and make tons of money extending our lives at the end when we should have been given a chance to leave before the quality of life is to suffer.

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I say just kick the religious out of the hospital business altogether. In Canada or the USA, religion does not belong simply because religion places its dogma over best medical practices. Much of the time, the two are not conflicting, but the times that it does are a complete disaster where the suffering patient's needs and rights are, at best, ignored, at worst, trampled to dust. Which leads to unnecessary suffering and pain.

I don't care what the religious hospitals have done in history. What's the point of them creating hospitals and developing treatments hundreds of years ago, when all they do now is interfere in people getting well, or at least relieving their pain. If the hospital is not going to treat the patient with the medical care the patient needs, then it should not be providing care at all.

To clarify, churches and religious organizations should not run hospitals. full stop. They can run churches. That's the extent of their reach in my opinion. Sunday school is part of church, but private schools and universities they do not have the qualifications to provide quality education. Hospitals are reliant on science, science the churches reject, and not prayer. Individual doctors and nurses can be religious, but the best medical practices and patient rights should be priority, not religious beliefs, no matter how sincerely held. If they can't do that, they can find another profession. Fuck em. No one has the right to have a specific job.

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Remember those two Sikh doctors who asked to shave their beard at the beginning of the pandemic and that it was granted because human life is more important than dogma ? That's an example many religions could follow.

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True, but those are examples of religious individuals who would choose best medical practices over dogma. I would rather the Sikh temple (or whatever they call their churches) not get involved in healthcare, whether it is open to science or not. Let science manage it, and let the religious manage fantasy.

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God, no. If the religious manage fantasy, my fantasy life goes to shit, and it's about the only way I can cope with my real life.

Let them manage delusion.

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Okay, science gets science and healthcare, artists get fantasy, and the religious get delusions. What did we miss?

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I have no words to describe what i think of them.

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I have plenty of words. Here, try these:

https://www.thesaurus.com/

https://www.merriam-webster.com/

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I do, but I'd probably get banned if I used them.

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The secret is to get Shakespearian on their asses. He had the best words!

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Thou ruttish idle-headed lout!

𝐒𝐡𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐧 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐮𝐥𝐭 𝐆𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐨𝐫

www.mainstrike.com/mstservices/handy/insult.html

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I'll try; other suggestions gratefully received.

King Lear iv. 6

Lear….. Thou hast seen a farmer's dog bark at a beggar?

Earl of Gloucester. Ay, sir.

Lear. And the creature run from the cur? There thou mightst behold

the great image of authority: a dog's obeyed in office.

Thou rascal beadle, hold thy bloody hand!

Why dost thou lash that whore? Strip thine own back.

Thou hotly lusts to use her in that kind

For which thou whip'st her. The usurer hangs the cozener.

…..Plate sin with gold,

And the strong lance of justice hurtless breaks;

Arm it in rags, a pygmy's straw does pierce it…..

Get thee glass eyes

And, like a scurvy politician, seem

To see the things thou dost not….

Hamlet i, 2

O, that this too too solid flesh would melt

Thaw and resolve itself into a dew!

Or that the Everlasting had not fix'd

His canon 'gainst self-slaughter! O God! God!

How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable,

Seem to me all the uses of this world!

Fie on't! ah fie! 'tis an unweeded garden,

That grows to seed; things rank and gross in nature

Possess it merely.

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Putain de bordel de merde de pisse-froids qui font chier le monde.

Not the first time I use them. Still here.

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Um, didn't you get false banned over and over recently? ;)

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😝

Ça jacte, ça jacte. Jaloux, mec ?

Yet, I persisted. And I am still here.

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Hee hee! Gotta have my fun. :D

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You are getting your just punishment. I had to switch to DM's phone and I can't upvote comments from it 😁

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Yeah, my aunt comes from a line of big headed babies. So when my almost cousin's head lodged in her pelvis during birth, the hospital tried to dislodge it. They wound up having to crush the skull to get the baby out and save my aunt's life.

Point is, if it had been a Catholic hospital, she would have died to save the baby, which would have left her other three kids motherless.

No terminal care, no pregnancy termination, no tubal ligation or vasectomies... WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE ALLOWED TO RUN HOSPITALS??? They refuse to perform certain procedures because Gawwwd and the Pope. They are often the only medical resource in some areas. They suck down public money while refusing to do the whole job.

I think any Catholic run hospital that takes public money or is the sole provider in an area should be legally required to maintain a section dedicated to nonbelievers and the full range of healthcare for them. It is unconscionable that an organization that serves the public will allow someone to die in agony because of their stupid religious beliefs.

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Sheer fucking lunacy from a bunch of dictator wannabes.

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