The Mormon church goes to great lengths to project a squeaky clean wholesome image, while silencing their critics, and burying their secrets whenever they can. Like Scientology, I file Mormonism under the heading of 'some people will believe anything.'
“The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth,“
Centuries of church rape and abuse, more like. It has always been a loophole to protect powerful men to continue their criminal behavior while also thinking they still get to go to heaven.
Those poor children. There is no justice for them, no matter what. But to toss this out is just rubbing salt in their wounds. There’s no need to make things worse. Why couldn’t the bishop tell him to confess to the police, or leave his family since he couldn’t protect them from himself, or any number of things to actually stop the abuse, but they didn’t bother trying to stop it, knowing they’d be protected from the consequences.
Don’t tell me that if there wasn’t this protection then people wouldn’t be confessing. If the confession doesn’t do anything to stop the abuses, it’s the same as the perpetrators not confessing at all. I don’t give a fuck if criminal abusers get the warm fuzzies from their religion, they don’t deserve warm fuzzies. Confession isn’t about stopping sins, it’s about comforting the sinner over his conscience. So if confession is ruined by being required to turn in criminals, and folks are turned off from religion because it isn’t there to assuage their guilt anymore, then religion will continue its demise and that is a good thing. It isn’t the government’s job to protect the reputation of clergy/religion/confession. It is the government’s job to protect the welfare of the citizens, which include the children. Then centuries of dogma can go hang.
Childhood indoctrination, faith over facts, cognitive dissonance, and the ego of the brainwashed masses are at the root of this problem.
Until people are informed and accept that all gods are imaginary and the fact that there is no proof for any of them, becomes accepted by the general public, this will continue. In reason I trust.
The Mormon church is complicit in a criminal conspiracy of exploitation of a minor(s). The judge who tossed the case should now be sued under conspiracy statutes as well. The church didn't just cover it up, they participated by giving this guy implied permission to do this. And it went on for years and got worse? Yea, let's check the computers of the people who covered this up too, and the judge.
If, in point of fact, religious were actually called to a 'higher moral standard' than the rest of us, they would be begging for laws that held them to said higher standard rather than trying to keep loopholes to get them out of it.
I can honestly say it's embarrassing that Interpol - what amounts to the international police force - had to step in an deal with this because we here in AZ couldn't be bothered to do the right thing. The Adams siblings are probably going to have this following them for the rest of their lives because images and videos posted to the internet get copied, reposted, saved, and moved around so often it's impossible to keep up, but the LDS want to claim that they aren't responsible? I don't think so; while I'd settle for a nice payday for those kids, what I honestly think is that the clergy here are aiding and abetting a crime by not reporting it. Children are, for the most part, helpless and when we as a society fail to protect them what we are actually doing is selling out our future. Clergy-penitent privilege is specifically geared toward protecting individuals from the consequences of their actions and exists for no other reason. Confession should not absolve criminals of the consequences of their actions anyway, how sorry can someone really be if they refuse to face the results of their own sins?
I swear, sometimes I honestly think religion is the worst possible blight on humanity anymore, and I'm not sure it was ever anything else.
"To force a clergy member to report a confidential communication 'changes the whole nature of the confessional,' said state Sen. Eddie Farnsworth, R-Gilbert, and a member of the Mormon Church."
Good.
"The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth..."
Good.
If these are the results, perhaps - just perhaps - the nature of the confessional and centuries of church dogma should change, should be disrupted.
"So you see, children, plenty of people think that your dad raping you was very bad. The police, social workers and counselors, prosecutors, most decent people, and even Interpol think what your dad did was monstrous. Even your dad killed himself over it. But the Mormon Church doesn't think it's bad enough to do anything to try to stop him, and clearly God doesn't give a crap about you, since the Almighty didn't do squat. But don't worry, if you pray hard enough and ask God's forgiveness, he might forgive you for being a rape victim, you disgusting, soiled sinners. Now go back to your pew and be sure to put plenty of money in the offering plate."
Disgusting and evil monsters! Where are all those people who scream "Protect the children"? Where are all those people seeing pedos in their cereals? Aren't they supposed to fight against groomers? Those poor kids! I hope they get all the help they need. Good riddance about the sperme donor. I hope the egg donor continues to pay for what she allowed to happen.
AZ judge tosses out child abuse lawsuit against Mormon Church, citing "clergy-penitent" rule
“𝐻𝑜𝑤 𝑑𝑜 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑒𝑥𝑝𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑡𝑜 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝑣𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑎 𝑟𝑎𝑝𝑖𝑠𝑡’𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑓𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑟𝑎𝑝𝑒?”
You don't. It's not possible.
Clergy-penitent privilege should not apply to crimes for which other authority figures are mandatory reporters.
The Mormon church goes to great lengths to project a squeaky clean wholesome image, while silencing their critics, and burying their secrets whenever they can. Like Scientology, I file Mormonism under the heading of 'some people will believe anything.'
[The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth...]
FUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU.
You're a goddamned fucking monster if you prize fucking dogma above children.
“The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth,“
Centuries of church rape and abuse, more like. It has always been a loophole to protect powerful men to continue their criminal behavior while also thinking they still get to go to heaven.
Those poor children. There is no justice for them, no matter what. But to toss this out is just rubbing salt in their wounds. There’s no need to make things worse. Why couldn’t the bishop tell him to confess to the police, or leave his family since he couldn’t protect them from himself, or any number of things to actually stop the abuse, but they didn’t bother trying to stop it, knowing they’d be protected from the consequences.
Don’t tell me that if there wasn’t this protection then people wouldn’t be confessing. If the confession doesn’t do anything to stop the abuses, it’s the same as the perpetrators not confessing at all. I don’t give a fuck if criminal abusers get the warm fuzzies from their religion, they don’t deserve warm fuzzies. Confession isn’t about stopping sins, it’s about comforting the sinner over his conscience. So if confession is ruined by being required to turn in criminals, and folks are turned off from religion because it isn’t there to assuage their guilt anymore, then religion will continue its demise and that is a good thing. It isn’t the government’s job to protect the reputation of clergy/religion/confession. It is the government’s job to protect the welfare of the citizens, which include the children. Then centuries of dogma can go hang.
Childhood indoctrination, faith over facts, cognitive dissonance, and the ego of the brainwashed masses are at the root of this problem.
Until people are informed and accept that all gods are imaginary and the fact that there is no proof for any of them, becomes accepted by the general public, this will continue. In reason I trust.
The important thing is that their dogma is protected. Excuse me while I go puke.
The Mormon church is complicit in a criminal conspiracy of exploitation of a minor(s). The judge who tossed the case should now be sued under conspiracy statutes as well. The church didn't just cover it up, they participated by giving this guy implied permission to do this. And it went on for years and got worse? Yea, let's check the computers of the people who covered this up too, and the judge.
It gives another meaning to "Justice is blind". I wonder if the judge would have ruled the same if it was a Satanist. Vive le double standard 🙄
I hope they will prevail in appeal court.
Child abuse or neglect cases are carved out of the clergy communications privilege in Texas and are required to be reported.
"Clergy-penitent privilege," better than attorney-client privilege. Just tell your clergyman and you can't be convicted.
"Won't someone please think of the children." The priests do.
In a child's voice: "You can't touch me! You're not a priest." - Robin Williams
If, in point of fact, religious were actually called to a 'higher moral standard' than the rest of us, they would be begging for laws that held them to said higher standard rather than trying to keep loopholes to get them out of it.
I can honestly say it's embarrassing that Interpol - what amounts to the international police force - had to step in an deal with this because we here in AZ couldn't be bothered to do the right thing. The Adams siblings are probably going to have this following them for the rest of their lives because images and videos posted to the internet get copied, reposted, saved, and moved around so often it's impossible to keep up, but the LDS want to claim that they aren't responsible? I don't think so; while I'd settle for a nice payday for those kids, what I honestly think is that the clergy here are aiding and abetting a crime by not reporting it. Children are, for the most part, helpless and when we as a society fail to protect them what we are actually doing is selling out our future. Clergy-penitent privilege is specifically geared toward protecting individuals from the consequences of their actions and exists for no other reason. Confession should not absolve criminals of the consequences of their actions anyway, how sorry can someone really be if they refuse to face the results of their own sins?
I swear, sometimes I honestly think religion is the worst possible blight on humanity anymore, and I'm not sure it was ever anything else.
"To force a clergy member to report a confidential communication 'changes the whole nature of the confessional,' said state Sen. Eddie Farnsworth, R-Gilbert, and a member of the Mormon Church."
Good.
"The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth..."
Good.
If these are the results, perhaps - just perhaps - the nature of the confessional and centuries of church dogma should change, should be disrupted.
Just perhaps.
"So you see, children, plenty of people think that your dad raping you was very bad. The police, social workers and counselors, prosecutors, most decent people, and even Interpol think what your dad did was monstrous. Even your dad killed himself over it. But the Mormon Church doesn't think it's bad enough to do anything to try to stop him, and clearly God doesn't give a crap about you, since the Almighty didn't do squat. But don't worry, if you pray hard enough and ask God's forgiveness, he might forgive you for being a rape victim, you disgusting, soiled sinners. Now go back to your pew and be sure to put plenty of money in the offering plate."
Disgusting and evil monsters! Where are all those people who scream "Protect the children"? Where are all those people seeing pedos in their cereals? Aren't they supposed to fight against groomers? Those poor kids! I hope they get all the help they need. Good riddance about the sperme donor. I hope the egg donor continues to pay for what she allowed to happen.
While churches are good at not reporting abuses by their members, they really hit their stride when actively covering up abuses by their own clergy.
I guess being 'pro-life' only extends so far with Christians.