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Joe King's avatar

“𝐻𝑜𝑤 𝑑𝑜 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑒𝑥𝑝𝑙𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑡𝑜 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝑣𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑎 𝑟𝑎𝑝𝑖𝑠𝑡’𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑓𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑏𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑜𝑚 𝑟𝑎𝑝𝑒?”

You don't. It's not possible.

Clergy-penitent privilege should not apply to crimes for which other authority figures are mandatory reporters.

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XJC's avatar

Not everybody thinks rape is a bad thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigZ1fmwD-Q

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NOGODZ20's avatar

That's one of the cringe-y lines in 'Blazing Saddles.'

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scenario's avatar

It was supposed to be cring-y. They were the bad guys bragging about how bad they were. The more awful you were, the better you fit in. Its like submitting a resume to the mob proud about the evil you've done.

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Dane B. McFadhen's avatar

It's not cringe-inducing if you look at the context in which it was delivered. XJC, however, should have mentioned the film was full-on satire.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Even in 1974, knowing the film was an anachronistic comedy western, I still squirmed in my seat over that bit of dialogue (as well as a couple of other bits). Even Mel Brooks admits he could never make Blazing Saddles now.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Would Peter Graves play a pedophile pilot in "Airplane !" ?

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NOGODZ20's avatar

These days, he'd probably pass.

And Lee Terri (who played Graves' wife) might think twice about playing a woman who is cheating on her husband with a stallion.

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Dane B. McFadhen's avatar

Yes, Blazing Saddles was at times hilarious. But put some perspective here.

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Dane B. McFadhen's avatar

It's not cringe-inducing if you look at the context in which it was delivered. XJC, however, should have mentioned the film was full-on satire.

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XJC's avatar

The obvious doesn't get mentioned much in the Comments gallery.

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oraxx's avatar

The Mormon church goes to great lengths to project a squeaky clean wholesome image, while silencing their critics, and burying their secrets whenever they can. Like Scientology, I file Mormonism under the heading of 'some people will believe anything.'

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Joe King's avatar

Just like the JWs, just like the SBC, just like the RCC.

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Old Man Shadow's avatar

[The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth...]

FUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU.

You're a goddamned fucking monster if you prize fucking dogma above children.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Hear-fucking 𝗛𝗘𝗔𝗥!!!

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NOGODZ20's avatar

With any and all sects of Christianity, it's always about protecting the church and the victims be damned.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth,“

Centuries of church rape and abuse, more like. It has always been a loophole to protect powerful men to continue their criminal behavior while also thinking they still get to go to heaven.

Those poor children. There is no justice for them, no matter what. But to toss this out is just rubbing salt in their wounds. There’s no need to make things worse. Why couldn’t the bishop tell him to confess to the police, or leave his family since he couldn’t protect them from himself, or any number of things to actually stop the abuse, but they didn’t bother trying to stop it, knowing they’d be protected from the consequences.

Don’t tell me that if there wasn’t this protection then people wouldn’t be confessing. If the confession doesn’t do anything to stop the abuses, it’s the same as the perpetrators not confessing at all. I don’t give a fuck if criminal abusers get the warm fuzzies from their religion, they don’t deserve warm fuzzies. Confession isn’t about stopping sins, it’s about comforting the sinner over his conscience. So if confession is ruined by being required to turn in criminals, and folks are turned off from religion because it isn’t there to assuage their guilt anymore, then religion will continue its demise and that is a good thing. It isn’t the government’s job to protect the reputation of clergy/religion/confession. It is the government’s job to protect the welfare of the citizens, which include the children. Then centuries of dogma can go hang.

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cdbunch's avatar

Children are property not citizens. Citizens have to be human.

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OwossoHarpist's avatar

Reminds me of Dumb Idiot Ken Ham asking this highly offensive question, "Who owns children?" I bet Dumb Idiot Ham has cases made to him of sexual abuse and just simply brushed if off as if he doesn't care. And what does one of his placards at his "museum" say about incest?

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Nov 10, 2023
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cdbunch's avatar

Unfortunately, those monsters are human. Humans are capable of great evil. Ask the victims of Salem Village or the survivors of the Nazi camps. No supernatural beings 'good' or evil necessary.

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JerryBier's avatar

Childhood indoctrination, faith over facts, cognitive dissonance, and the ego of the brainwashed masses are at the root of this problem.

Until people are informed and accept that all gods are imaginary and the fact that there is no proof for any of them, becomes accepted by the general public, this will continue. In reason I trust.

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wreck's avatar

The important thing is that their dogma is protected. Excuse me while I go puke.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

Move over! 🤮🤮🤮

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Tinker's avatar

The Mormon church is complicit in a criminal conspiracy of exploitation of a minor(s). The judge who tossed the case should now be sued under conspiracy statutes as well. The church didn't just cover it up, they participated by giving this guy implied permission to do this. And it went on for years and got worse? Yea, let's check the computers of the people who covered this up too, and the judge.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It gives another meaning to "Justice is blind". I wonder if the judge would have ruled the same if it was a Satanist. Vive le double standard 🙄

I hope they will prevail in appeal court.

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Joe King's avatar

I hope so, too. The Mor(m)ons have enough cash stockpiled to take care of the victims for life.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I didn't think about the money. This double system must stop, point. How can we pretend to be civilised when we cover and help perpetuate child abuse and I say this for my country too.

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Joe King's avatar

Providing the money is the 𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘵 the Mor(m)ons should do. They also need serious reforms so this sort of cover up 𝗻𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗽𝗲𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻.

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Anri's avatar

"I wonder if the judge would have ruled the same if it was a Satanist."

Obviously different.

Satanism isn't a "real church" with "real religion".

Everyone know you have to be a decently pious person to be cool with child rape.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

The Satanic Temple is a real church.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

For the IRS, not for most judges.

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Zorginipsoundsor's avatar

Doesn't matter what judges believe, it is officially a church.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

How many cases did the ST lost because judges aren't without bias ?

Both Anri and you are right in this instance. The ST IS a church in your country but they lack the positive social recognition because "tradition".

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Freodin's avatar

This is something where we'll never see a comparable case from the Satanists. This is something they won't challenge, like school clubs, book bannings or rights to reproductive healthcare.

There will never ever be an example case of Satanists challenging sex abuse report extemptions in court.

Because Satanists have a conscience!

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Sean's avatar

"Clergy-penitent privilege," better than attorney-client privilege. Just tell your clergyman and you can't be convicted.

"Won't someone please think of the children." The priests do.

In a child's voice: "You can't touch me! You're not a priest." - Robin Williams

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Whitney's avatar

If, in point of fact, religious were actually called to a 'higher moral standard' than the rest of us, they would be begging for laws that held them to said higher standard rather than trying to keep loopholes to get them out of it.

I can honestly say it's embarrassing that Interpol - what amounts to the international police force - had to step in an deal with this because we here in AZ couldn't be bothered to do the right thing. The Adams siblings are probably going to have this following them for the rest of their lives because images and videos posted to the internet get copied, reposted, saved, and moved around so often it's impossible to keep up, but the LDS want to claim that they aren't responsible? I don't think so; while I'd settle for a nice payday for those kids, what I honestly think is that the clergy here are aiding and abetting a crime by not reporting it. Children are, for the most part, helpless and when we as a society fail to protect them what we are actually doing is selling out our future. Clergy-penitent privilege is specifically geared toward protecting individuals from the consequences of their actions and exists for no other reason. Confession should not absolve criminals of the consequences of their actions anyway, how sorry can someone really be if they refuse to face the results of their own sins?

I swear, sometimes I honestly think religion is the worst possible blight on humanity anymore, and I'm not sure it was ever anything else.

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cdbunch's avatar

When have we ever protected children? Especially from religion. States refuse to charge parents when they refuse actual medical care for their children in favor of 'religious' healing. Shamans of practically all (and maybe all) regularly abuse children (physically and sexually) and little if anything is done. We don't fund or staff Children's Services properly, vetting potential adoptive and foster parents, we focus on whether you were in a bar fight in your early 20s rather than do you have trouble controlling your temper.

Protect the children is the rallying cry of those who would take rights away from harmless people while letting known predators have unfettered access to kids.

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Anri's avatar

"To force a clergy member to report a confidential communication 'changes the whole nature of the confessional,' said state Sen. Eddie Farnsworth, R-Gilbert, and a member of the Mormon Church."

Good.

"The bill, well-intentioned as it might have been, would disrupt centuries of church dogma, said Farnsworth..."

Good.

If these are the results, perhaps - just perhaps - the nature of the confessional and centuries of church dogma should change, should be disrupted.

Just perhaps.

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Richard Wade's avatar

"So you see, children, plenty of people think that your dad raping you was very bad. The police, social workers and counselors, prosecutors, most decent people, and even Interpol think what your dad did was monstrous. Even your dad killed himself over it. But the Mormon Church doesn't think it's bad enough to do anything to try to stop him, and clearly God doesn't give a crap about you, since the Almighty didn't do squat. But don't worry, if you pray hard enough and ask God's forgiveness, he might forgive you for being a rape victim, you disgusting, soiled sinners. Now go back to your pew and be sure to put plenty of money in the offering plate."

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Marie -José Renaud's avatar

Disgusting and evil monsters! Where are all those people who scream "Protect the children"? Where are all those people seeing pedos in their cereals? Aren't they supposed to fight against groomers? Those poor kids! I hope they get all the help they need. Good riddance about the sperme donor. I hope the egg donor continues to pay for what she allowed to happen.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

The people covering this up are part of the people screaming about protecting the children. That’s part of the coverup.

“Look at those drag queens reading books, they’re grooming our children. They’re all pedos!!!! I should know, I do it myself, but in a socially acceptable way.”

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cdbunch's avatar

The cry 'Protect the Children' is never about the children. It's about taking rights away from people they don't like. People who *actually* want to protect children address actual issues rather than a bullshit rallying cry.

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Richard S. Russell's avatar

While churches are good at not reporting abuses by their members, they really hit their stride when actively covering up abuses by their own clergy.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I guess being 'pro-life' only extends so far with Christians.

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Joe King's avatar

"If you're pre born, you're fine. If you're preschool, you're fucked."

--George Carlin.

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Daniel Rotter's avatar

This is another problem I have with religion: things like child molestation are treated as just another "sin" that requires confession to a member of a clergy instead of a serious crime that merits confession to law enforcement.

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XJC's avatar

"Confession" and the bullshit contrivance of "God's forgiveness of sin" is a Christian Thang. Another clever ploy by Paul in his start up to the world's wealthiest pyramid scheme corporation, Jesus, Inc.

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

They want to call it, "sin?" I call it: "Child RAPE," and the judicial system should damned well treat it that way.

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Joe King's avatar

And they say 𝘸𝘦 are the ones lacking morality.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

When the victims are not culpable of tempting these good men.

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Nov 10, 2023
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cdbunch's avatar

Zuckerburg supports money (specifically his money) and nothing else.

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