I served 19 United Methodist churches from the Castro District to the Mississippi Delta.I met SOME great people in every church. But they were no better people than I encountered in any grouping out in the secular world., or out in the streets.
I also met a lot of shitty people in every church. People are people.Goodness has nothing to do with the Christian religion!
Here in Wales, 'chapel culture' was strong for decades, centuries even. One was either 'church' i.e. anglican or 'chapel', all the rest, non-conformist denominations by the dozen. (And all hated each other's guts.) Gradually most have faded away and died. Not long ago, I was chatting to a 92yo in our village street. He pointed across the road at a closed chapel. 'That used to be my chapel,' he said, 'shame it closed, but really those inside it were no different from those outside.' I didn't ask at what point in his life he'd come to that perceptive conclusion, but I thought it was unusual to be so shrewd about the religious life of most of Wales!
Yeah, seems about right. I'd be surprised if any prison let inmates know about secular options, frankly. Religion loves a captive, controllable audience. I really hope he wins but sadly being in the right isn't always enough.
And yet, they think he's gonna be able to work his magic in a prison defended by iron bars. Not very good at understanding their own goddything, are they?
Nogodz! That vapid, insipid chorus is an earworm that is the theme song of the reason I am repulsed by the vision of Christian heaven. Can you imagine singing that on a continuous loop for eternity?
The only good thing about the Sun is that it makes the Daily Mirror look like a real newspaper. And I'm so old that I remember when the Daily Mirror was a real newspaper.
What bothers me the most about this case: so far as I'm aware, there is ZERO evidence that Christian recovery programs work any better than similar nonreligious programs.
I would think - and yes, I'm aware I'm trying to be reasonable here - that the courts and correctional systems we have would be on the lookout for the most effective program available. Isn't the point to help these people become productive members of society? Isn't that what they're supposed to learn in a correctional facility anyway?
Substance abuse is hard to overcome. I'm well aware, and too many don't make it. Even for those who do, it's a lifelong struggle for most. Making that struggle harder on someone who at least appears to be attempting to make an effort at recovery is foolish and counterproductive. Let the guy into a nonreligious program or admit the whole point is forcible conversion, WV, any other claim is a lie.
Bingo! That is exactly why they prefer those programs. They are free to the state. Paying for a program from an actual substance abuse clinic would cost many more dollars per inmate. While there are religious individuals in our government who want to push their religion on everyone, many states are just looking for the cheapest way to accomplish their directive. A state legislator passing a non-funded mandate to provide substance abuse programs has a predictable outcome but the people who vote for them don't think about the religious aspects nearly as much. Of course, when it's pointed out like in this case or the Governor of New York, they just shrug and say "but it's my religion so it's ok".
Why bother looking for "the most effective program available," when you think you already know the answer? We are right, and everybody else is wrong, is the basic tenet of kkkristianity.
โIsn't the point to help these people become productive members of society? Isn't that what they're supposed to learn in a correctional facility anyway?โ
Ahh, I see where you went wrong here. Our so called justice system doesnโt put people in prison as an attempt at corrections. The prison system, as delineated in the constitution, bill of rights and amendments, is to continue the institution of slavery. Thereโs a carve out for slavery in the amendment that ended slavery for inmates to be forced to work uncompensated. This is why people of color are out represented in the prison system.
The prison system is also now mostly privatized. Which means thereโs no real government interest in maintaining rights, it is all about making money. With the privatization of prisons and jails, people can be held far past their sentences for minor infractions in order to maintain the minimum quota of inmates. Itโs sickening.
This is about forcible conversion, as is the voluntary Bible study programs that folks can get into to earn time off for good behavior. Like that preacher who completed one and got out way too early Hemant wrote about (I think it was) last year. What would a preacher get out of a Bible study that he already didnโt have? He was already steeped in the Bible and still committed a crime, why would more bible study prove he was gooder?
If Christianity made you a good person then Christianโs would be the least incarcerated people, and yet they are the most (which is not surprising and on par with their percentage of the population) even accounting for the ones who find Jesus in prison. Not many weโre not Christian beforehand, they just were bad at following the rules or whatever and now theyโre better, supposedly.
Whatever, this guy asked for something that was a part of the same program the system offered and was refused. This is literally a forced conversion attempt.
Once again we have a "southern state" which thinks that the cure to everything is Christianity. This is made even more egregious by the fact that the setting is a prison, where inmates don't have a lot of choices to begin with. My impression, too, is that the alternatives suggested by Mr. Miller were rejected without examination or consideration, and that is especially problematic when it is entirely possible that those programs might be MORE effective than those currently in use by the state.
I'm pleased to see that American Atheists is on the case. Whether West Virginia learns from this or not, though, is a tossup at best.
During the Civil War, both the Union and the Confederacy claimed "God is on our side."
When the South was rightly defeated, you'd think they would've rejected Christianity as its deity seemed to favor the hated North. Instead they doubled down and became the bible belt.
West Virginia- the state which only exists because its people were more progressive than the rest of Virginia.
...and their descendants have been trying to make amends, for ๐ซ๐ถ๐ด๐ต ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ฆ ๐ต๐ช๐ฎ๐ฆ being on the right side of history, ever since.
My feeling is they were rejected simply because he questioned authority. Not only were they not examined on their own merits, they weren't even considered, not so much to push Christianity, but simply because authority had spoken and no mere peon (inmate) is to question that.
Entirely possible ... which will make things even MORE interesting if the ruling on this case is in Mr. Miller's favor and the state finds itself in the position of having to rethink their approach.
Followup on this one is, I think, pretty necessary.
A sad footnote to this sad story is that we now think of West Virginia as a "southern state", when its very existence is due to those counties having split off from Virginia when Virginia joined the Confederacy. They had their heads screwed on straight then. What happened?
Statistics show that atheists barely register as a blip on the US prison population. The vast majority of inmates are Christian. What good did their religion do them?
Most air fryers don't. I bought this model because you don't have to shake/stir what you are frying. It was inexpected for the popcorn. DM was very happy when I told her.
Oh, and that pic with the butter on the lid is BS. The butter doesn't' drip onto your popping popcorn. The butter completely melts before the first kernel pops.
Can we as a society ๐ฝ๐น๐ฒ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ stop equating "Christian" with "good"? This bullshit is getting real old.
The recorded history of Christianity leads one to conclude that the Cult of the Cross is most definitely NOT a force for good and never has been.
Christians individually may do good things, but they do them IN SPITE of their religion, not because of it.
Math problem:
Given: Religion + Good Works = Good Works
Solve for Religion.
Nicely done
I served 19 United Methodist churches from the Castro District to the Mississippi Delta.I met SOME great people in every church. But they were no better people than I encountered in any grouping out in the secular world., or out in the streets.
I also met a lot of shitty people in every church. People are people.Goodness has nothing to do with the Christian religion!
Here in Wales, 'chapel culture' was strong for decades, centuries even. One was either 'church' i.e. anglican or 'chapel', all the rest, non-conformist denominations by the dozen. (And all hated each other's guts.) Gradually most have faded away and died. Not long ago, I was chatting to a 92yo in our village street. He pointed across the road at a closed chapel. 'That used to be my chapel,' he said, 'shame it closed, but really those inside it were no different from those outside.' I didn't ask at what point in his life he'd come to that perceptive conclusion, but I thought it was unusual to be so shrewd about the religious life of most of Wales!
Nobody tell David Graf, he won't believe it.
Yeah, he hates inconvenient facts that mess with his narrative.
Delusion in the religious is a helluva thing.
Their own behavior should be enough to convince people, but the 2000 year old religious smokescreen they hide behind is very effective.
Why cats will never join a 12-step program:
Step 1: I acknowledge the existence of a higher authority.
If religion equaled morality, the Middle-East would be the safest, sanest place on earth, rather than the never-ending horror story it is.
Yeah, seems about right. I'd be surprised if any prison let inmates know about secular options, frankly. Religion loves a captive, controllable audience. I really hope he wins but sadly being in the right isn't always enough.
Preachy preachees enforcing their will on a quite literally captive audience.
Speaks volumes about Christianity.
Insecurity, thy name is Christ.
"Our God is an awesome God."
I think not.
He does seem rather impotent these days, perhaps Yahweh is getting old. He used to do all kinds of stuff, maybe he's just camera shy.
He couldn't handle iron chariots back when he was a whole lot younger and stronger.
Left him a bitter old man.
And yet, they think he's gonna be able to work his magic in a prison defended by iron bars. Not very good at understanding their own goddything, are they?
I think it was Bugs Bunny who said: "Iron bars do not a prison make. But they sure help."
Guess he's one of the fairy folk.
Nogodz! That vapid, insipid chorus is an earworm that is the theme song of the reason I am repulsed by the vision of Christian heaven. Can you imagine singing that on a continuous loop for eternity?
Sounds like hell to me!
That is why if gawd is real, we atheists are going to heaven.
Having to listen to ANY Christian music for all time would a far worse punishment than ANY that could ever be dished out in the hot place.
I wonder how many of these programs are led by so called 'prison ministries.
But it's not Christian, it could be any higher power. Joe Pesci for example.
What bullshit, but I wouldn't put it past our judiciary to go for it.
My higher power is the Sun.
SOLid.
The only good thing about the Sun is that it makes the Daily Mirror look like a real newspaper. And I'm so old that I remember when the Daily Mirror was a real newspaper.
What bothers me the most about this case: so far as I'm aware, there is ZERO evidence that Christian recovery programs work any better than similar nonreligious programs.
I would think - and yes, I'm aware I'm trying to be reasonable here - that the courts and correctional systems we have would be on the lookout for the most effective program available. Isn't the point to help these people become productive members of society? Isn't that what they're supposed to learn in a correctional facility anyway?
Substance abuse is hard to overcome. I'm well aware, and too many don't make it. Even for those who do, it's a lifelong struggle for most. Making that struggle harder on someone who at least appears to be attempting to make an effort at recovery is foolish and counterproductive. Let the guy into a nonreligious program or admit the whole point is forcible conversion, WV, any other claim is a lie.
Actually minimal evidence they work at all.
I wonder if the state likes these religious programs because churches pick up some of the tab (or even volunteer) saving money?
Bingo! That is exactly why they prefer those programs. They are free to the state. Paying for a program from an actual substance abuse clinic would cost many more dollars per inmate. While there are religious individuals in our government who want to push their religion on everyone, many states are just looking for the cheapest way to accomplish their directive. A state legislator passing a non-funded mandate to provide substance abuse programs has a predictable outcome but the people who vote for them don't think about the religious aspects nearly as much. Of course, when it's pointed out like in this case or the Governor of New York, they just shrug and say "but it's my religion so it's ok".
Why bother looking for "the most effective program available," when you think you already know the answer? We are right, and everybody else is wrong, is the basic tenet of kkkristianity.
โIsn't the point to help these people become productive members of society? Isn't that what they're supposed to learn in a correctional facility anyway?โ
Ahh, I see where you went wrong here. Our so called justice system doesnโt put people in prison as an attempt at corrections. The prison system, as delineated in the constitution, bill of rights and amendments, is to continue the institution of slavery. Thereโs a carve out for slavery in the amendment that ended slavery for inmates to be forced to work uncompensated. This is why people of color are out represented in the prison system.
The prison system is also now mostly privatized. Which means thereโs no real government interest in maintaining rights, it is all about making money. With the privatization of prisons and jails, people can be held far past their sentences for minor infractions in order to maintain the minimum quota of inmates. Itโs sickening.
This is about forcible conversion, as is the voluntary Bible study programs that folks can get into to earn time off for good behavior. Like that preacher who completed one and got out way too early Hemant wrote about (I think it was) last year. What would a preacher get out of a Bible study that he already didnโt have? He was already steeped in the Bible and still committed a crime, why would more bible study prove he was gooder?
If Christianity made you a good person then Christianโs would be the least incarcerated people, and yet they are the most (which is not surprising and on par with their percentage of the population) even accounting for the ones who find Jesus in prison. Not many weโre not Christian beforehand, they just were bad at following the rules or whatever and now theyโre better, supposedly.
Whatever, this guy asked for something that was a part of the same program the system offered and was refused. This is literally a forced conversion attempt.
I hope for him to not only win but to ne compensated, too bad the money won't come from the pockets of those who refused him his basic right.
Once again we have a "southern state" which thinks that the cure to everything is Christianity. This is made even more egregious by the fact that the setting is a prison, where inmates don't have a lot of choices to begin with. My impression, too, is that the alternatives suggested by Mr. Miller were rejected without examination or consideration, and that is especially problematic when it is entirely possible that those programs might be MORE effective than those currently in use by the state.
I'm pleased to see that American Atheists is on the case. Whether West Virginia learns from this or not, though, is a tossup at best.
During the Civil War, both the Union and the Confederacy claimed "God is on our side."
When the South was rightly defeated, you'd think they would've rejected Christianity as its deity seemed to favor the hated North. Instead they doubled down and became the bible belt.
*smh*
During the Civil War, both the Union and the Confederacy claimed "God is on our side."
God likes chaos. Maybe a Roger Waters lyric, not bothering to look it up right now.
West Virginia- the state which only exists because its people were more progressive than the rest of Virginia.
...and their descendants have been trying to make amends, for ๐ซ๐ถ๐ด๐ต ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ฆ ๐ต๐ช๐ฎ๐ฆ being on the right side of history, ever since.
My feeling is they were rejected simply because he questioned authority. Not only were they not examined on their own merits, they weren't even considered, not so much to push Christianity, but simply because authority had spoken and no mere peon (inmate) is to question that.
Entirely possible ... which will make things even MORE interesting if the ruling on this case is in Mr. Miller's favor and the state finds itself in the position of having to rethink their approach.
Followup on this one is, I think, pretty necessary.
A sad footnote to this sad story is that we now think of West Virginia as a "southern state", when its very existence is due to those counties having split off from Virginia when Virginia joined the Confederacy. They had their heads screwed on straight then. What happened?
I don't think of W. Virginia as a southern state. Not long after leaving Pittsburgh you drive through West Virginia on I70.
I'll take even money on "won't learn from it." A sure bet.
Statistics show that atheists barely register as a blip on the US prison population. The vast majority of inmates are Christian. What good did their religion do them?
So.... we're not trying hard enough?. ๐ค
Hard to compete with a group of people (Christians) to whom crime comes so naturally. :)
Anybody stocking up on popcorn for tomorrow? Place your bets now on how long it takes the mugshots to leak!
May this just be the beginning of the indictments.
Would love to see them come one after the other like multiple storm systems.
don't have any popcorn but got snacks ready. bought a bag of tim's jalapeno chips
I exchange air fryer popcorn for your jalapeรฑo chips.
the idea of using a air fryer to make popcorn intrigues me. I would make the trade
Most air fryers don't. I bought this model because you don't have to shake/stir what you are frying. It was inexpected for the popcorn. DM was very happy when I told her.
https://www.klarstein.fr/Appareils-de-cuisine/Friteuse-sans-huile/Friteuse-a-air-chaud-VitAir-Pommesmaster-360-1400-W-50-240-C-minuterie-Noir.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8qmhBhClARIsANAtbocPZPnnH_4fh8sR7IFoyzw4I1w7TokpjPB_OHsyiPw0oeJ6xsSRB6YaAlvaEALw_wcB
14699โฌ for an air fryerโฝโฝโฝ That's $16,014. ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฑ
146.99 โฌ as if you don't know our , = your . ๐
My popcorn pot works pretty well.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tasty-1-5-Quart-Borosilicate-Glass-Micro-Pop-Microwave-Popcorn-Popper-Red/289971965?athbdg=L1102
Oh, and that pic with the butter on the lid is BS. The butter doesn't' drip onto your popping popcorn. The butter completely melts before the first kernel pops.
It would be useless for me I don't have a microwave. I coat my kernels in a thin layer of oil.
Edit : Zorg ๐
Could you bring something chocolate? S'il vous plais?
From DM's hypoglycemia stash, milk chocolate filled with creamy milk and hazelnuts. 500 g is a little over a pound.
https://images.app.goo.gl/EeJovAPWX82T63zK6
They have tiny toys inside?
Tiny toys = Kinder surprise, not schokobon.
Jesus was a jailbird. Not a good role model.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cf985d0ca8351ce0eceed7d01c8a600324af23ab84da2551d104b0d812a861a1.jpg
Is his phylactery hidden under St. Peter's in Rome?
https://img.ifunny.co/images/2390a12b69e01275aa1aaad04ebd679a3a5b8578357d54e05344800b7c12c4c1_1.jpg
never go full fascist.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Victorshi2020/status/1642975311758503943
Deny them what you will, they sure know how to punish.
I can hear the state's defense. 'There ain't no such thing as atheists, they just hate doG and want to go out drinking and whoring.
You say that like its a bad thing.
A modern day Clockwork Orange...