Pedophiles have been allowed to hide behind their Bibles and clerical collars for far too long. This girl's parents need to be charged right along with the pastor. They're the ones who made it possible. It should have been an automatic 'NO' when he first requested permission to date their daughter, and had he persisted, they should have put that church behind them and contacted the police.
This is what comes of patriarchal religions. Nothing good.
Short of Christianity itself going away altogether, that religion needs to eliminate the position of youth pastor. It is now inescapably linked to child molestation.
Kudos to Sarah Carr for coming forward and sharing this with the world, it could not have been easy. Thank you.
With that said, I would like to observe that as someone raised in the SBC, this is how the system is intended to work. Christianity sets women up to be taken advantage of in numerous ways, and yes, that is the intent of it. While Ms. Carr's experience was particularly heinous, she is not now and likely never will be alone in that respect; Christian teaching about the role of women emphasizes obedience to the men in their lives then makes them responsible for all intimate encounters, leaving them in a situation where they are supposed to be in charge of something they literally cannot decline for any reason. This is one of the major reasons I got out, actually; if I cannot say no to sexual intercourse but I'm still responsible for it, is it any great leap to assume I'm not allowed in heaven since I'm being blamed for the sin of someone else? At that point, why bother trying to please a Jesus who clearly doesn't care enough about me to ensure I'm only responsible for the things I did?
For what it's worth, I didn't suffer the same sort of abuse Ms. Carr did, but the teachings were the same and I did have problems dating for many years. Christianity is toxic to healthy marriages, and while there certainly are stable Christian marriages, they're doing well despite the religion, not because of it. My contention is that there's something wrong with a man who actually wants a doormat for a wife and smart women should stay the heck away from that guy.
Because they see women as things and not people, they cannot understand how a predatory youth pastor (I know, kind of redundant) is being predatory. They don't see the obvious grooming as being grooming. The only problem they see is that it became physical before the approved magic ceremony. And yet, they think it is grooming to let young people know that gay people exist.
I would really hate to see that Sarah’s case was only a tool for Shapiro’s political career and not an honest attempt at justice. Our system needs to be able to function even after individuals leave their positions. I hope his replacement is still working on the case, but I’m not holding my breath.
Sarah’s strength is amazing and her decision to come forward so others can find strength in her example is what will help change society to hold these abusers accountable.
As for the church, there needs to be an exodus. No more sticking around to change the church from the inside. It’s not working. If the church can convince you that snakes and donkeys talk, then they can convince you that the punishment of moving the preacher to another congregation (rather than going to the police and civil authorities) is a punishment. And there’s evidence in this church’s history for this. The church will continue to ignore the problem and promote its dogma that enables and breeds this abuse. This isn’t a case of one bad apple, this is a case of the species of tree being poisonous.
Among the biggest problems with the bible and churches that purport that they follow that book is the doctrine of women as PROPERTY. Regardless of how Robert Fenton or Fred Hoover may want to spin it, they treated Ms. Carr as PROPERTY, as though she had no right to self-determination or self-agency. This is made worse by language such as Fenton alleging that he was “meant to be with her.” All that did was to disguise his horns as some kind of religious imperative, which is something that those who wear priest collars do all the time to project authority onto their congregants. It's also clear that the party line of that church was that women were expected to submit to men, full stop, no argument, no discussion, which only makes Ms. Carr's whole story that much more predictable and tragic.
Sean Eberly said it: “High-demand religions are extremely toxic.” What a shame it took him so long to learn that lesson, and that it had to be learned at Sarah's expense.
"...she believes Fenton had honest intentions and that it was only his inability to find a wife his own age that led him to target younger women..."
Jesus, there is so much wrong implitic in that. If you are *targeting* someone specifically because you expect them to be unequal in terms of savvy or maturity or because you expect to be able to dominate them in the relationship, then that's a real big warning sign you're doing something selfish, not loving.
Sara Carr is the hero of this story. I cannot fathom the bravery she mustered to reveal what this man did to her and how the religious community paved the way for it to happen.
"It wasn’t just illegal since she was underage; it violated their own religious beliefs regarding abstinence before marriage."
It's really time for the world to realize that a church's publicly avowed beliefs are just that, PUBLIC avowals, essentially in place for the purpose of good PR. They are in no way intended to govern the PRIVATE behavior of the religion's adherents, and most certainly not its leaders. The nearest equivalent would be a company insisting that "Our workers' safety is our highest priority" while forcing their workers to operate in unsafe conditions.
When MAGAts ask "why should we have good relations with other countries?" - This right here? 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘺. Not just for fighting the next war, or preventing it, or extending humanitarian aid after a major disaster, or for leveraging grand concessions in trade agreements, or gaining access to treasure troves of natural resources... but also for every time some boil on the ass of humanity flies the coop to duck the consequences of their actions.
A country as closely aligned with us as Australia has been should absolutely 𝘯𝘰𝘵 have been a safe haven for this monster. Hopefully, wherever the extradition process stalled or broke down, the issue can soon be resolved so that justice can finally be done (and, hopefully, it wasn't something so banal and stupid as Sarah's case getting lost in the shuffle as politicians switched chairs with each other).
Two of Joseph Smith's brides (Helen Mar Kimball and Nancy Winchester) were 14 when the old fraud and perv married them. The former was 8 when she met him and the latter was 6 when she met him.
Joey came to a bad end, shot and killed in jail along with his brother Hiram by a mob. But he wasn't executed for child molestation. It was for destroying a printing press that had churned out news unflattering to him (polygamy and attempts to make himself king of a theocracy. He was also charged with treason for declaring martial law).
Christian clergy, who are normally obsessed about the sexual practices of others (gay people in particular), never seem to be able to control their own lusts. Especially when it comes to the underaged. Yet they continue to present themselves as moral whereas they condemn others as vile and hell-bound.
Wasn't it their savior that told these hypocrites to first remove the beam/log/plank from their own eyes before attempting to remove the mote/speck/splinter from the eyes of others?
"Youth pastor" is even more of a red flag than "Catholic priest".
Pedophiles have been allowed to hide behind their Bibles and clerical collars for far too long. This girl's parents need to be charged right along with the pastor. They're the ones who made it possible. It should have been an automatic 'NO' when he first requested permission to date their daughter, and had he persisted, they should have put that church behind them and contacted the police.
This is what comes of patriarchal religions. Nothing good.
Short of Christianity itself going away altogether, that religion needs to eliminate the position of youth pastor. It is now inescapably linked to child molestation.
Hey MAGAts, tell me again WHO are the groomers?
Kudos to Sarah Carr for coming forward and sharing this with the world, it could not have been easy. Thank you.
With that said, I would like to observe that as someone raised in the SBC, this is how the system is intended to work. Christianity sets women up to be taken advantage of in numerous ways, and yes, that is the intent of it. While Ms. Carr's experience was particularly heinous, she is not now and likely never will be alone in that respect; Christian teaching about the role of women emphasizes obedience to the men in their lives then makes them responsible for all intimate encounters, leaving them in a situation where they are supposed to be in charge of something they literally cannot decline for any reason. This is one of the major reasons I got out, actually; if I cannot say no to sexual intercourse but I'm still responsible for it, is it any great leap to assume I'm not allowed in heaven since I'm being blamed for the sin of someone else? At that point, why bother trying to please a Jesus who clearly doesn't care enough about me to ensure I'm only responsible for the things I did?
For what it's worth, I didn't suffer the same sort of abuse Ms. Carr did, but the teachings were the same and I did have problems dating for many years. Christianity is toxic to healthy marriages, and while there certainly are stable Christian marriages, they're doing well despite the religion, not because of it. My contention is that there's something wrong with a man who actually wants a doormat for a wife and smart women should stay the heck away from that guy.
𝑊ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑚𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑛 𝐹𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑜𝑛 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑑, 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑑𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑒 ℎ𝑖𝑚 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 “𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑜𝑟.”
Because they see women as things and not people, they cannot understand how a predatory youth pastor (I know, kind of redundant) is being predatory. They don't see the obvious grooming as being grooming. The only problem they see is that it became physical before the approved magic ceremony. And yet, they think it is grooming to let young people know that gay people exist.
This is why purity culture is so harmful.
I would really hate to see that Sarah’s case was only a tool for Shapiro’s political career and not an honest attempt at justice. Our system needs to be able to function even after individuals leave their positions. I hope his replacement is still working on the case, but I’m not holding my breath.
Sarah’s strength is amazing and her decision to come forward so others can find strength in her example is what will help change society to hold these abusers accountable.
As for the church, there needs to be an exodus. No more sticking around to change the church from the inside. It’s not working. If the church can convince you that snakes and donkeys talk, then they can convince you that the punishment of moving the preacher to another congregation (rather than going to the police and civil authorities) is a punishment. And there’s evidence in this church’s history for this. The church will continue to ignore the problem and promote its dogma that enables and breeds this abuse. This isn’t a case of one bad apple, this is a case of the species of tree being poisonous.
Among the biggest problems with the bible and churches that purport that they follow that book is the doctrine of women as PROPERTY. Regardless of how Robert Fenton or Fred Hoover may want to spin it, they treated Ms. Carr as PROPERTY, as though she had no right to self-determination or self-agency. This is made worse by language such as Fenton alleging that he was “meant to be with her.” All that did was to disguise his horns as some kind of religious imperative, which is something that those who wear priest collars do all the time to project authority onto their congregants. It's also clear that the party line of that church was that women were expected to submit to men, full stop, no argument, no discussion, which only makes Ms. Carr's whole story that much more predictable and tragic.
Sean Eberly said it: “High-demand religions are extremely toxic.” What a shame it took him so long to learn that lesson, and that it had to be learned at Sarah's expense.
"...she believes Fenton had honest intentions and that it was only his inability to find a wife his own age that led him to target younger women..."
Jesus, there is so much wrong implitic in that. If you are *targeting* someone specifically because you expect them to be unequal in terms of savvy or maturity or because you expect to be able to dominate them in the relationship, then that's a real big warning sign you're doing something selfish, not loving.
Sara Carr is the hero of this story. I cannot fathom the bravery she mustered to reveal what this man did to her and how the religious community paved the way for it to happen.
"It wasn’t just illegal since she was underage; it violated their own religious beliefs regarding abstinence before marriage."
It's really time for the world to realize that a church's publicly avowed beliefs are just that, PUBLIC avowals, essentially in place for the purpose of good PR. They are in no way intended to govern the PRIVATE behavior of the religion's adherents, and most certainly not its leaders. The nearest equivalent would be a company insisting that "Our workers' safety is our highest priority" while forcing their workers to operate in unsafe conditions.
I look at Fenton and I want to punch a wall with his face in the way.
Christians like this ogre always manage to bring out the worst in me.
When MAGAts ask "why should we have good relations with other countries?" - This right here? 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘺. Not just for fighting the next war, or preventing it, or extending humanitarian aid after a major disaster, or for leveraging grand concessions in trade agreements, or gaining access to treasure troves of natural resources... but also for every time some boil on the ass of humanity flies the coop to duck the consequences of their actions.
A country as closely aligned with us as Australia has been should absolutely 𝘯𝘰𝘵 have been a safe haven for this monster. Hopefully, wherever the extradition process stalled or broke down, the issue can soon be resolved so that justice can finally be done (and, hopefully, it wasn't something so banal and stupid as Sarah's case getting lost in the shuffle as politicians switched chairs with each other).
Two of Joseph Smith's brides (Helen Mar Kimball and Nancy Winchester) were 14 when the old fraud and perv married them. The former was 8 when she met him and the latter was 6 when she met him.
Joey came to a bad end, shot and killed in jail along with his brother Hiram by a mob. But he wasn't executed for child molestation. It was for destroying a printing press that had churned out news unflattering to him (polygamy and attempts to make himself king of a theocracy. He was also charged with treason for declaring martial law).
because of coarse they are.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d93qd/moms-for-liberty-proud-boys
Christian clergy, who are normally obsessed about the sexual practices of others (gay people in particular), never seem to be able to control their own lusts. Especially when it comes to the underaged. Yet they continue to present themselves as moral whereas they condemn others as vile and hell-bound.
Wasn't it their savior that told these hypocrites to first remove the beam/log/plank from their own eyes before attempting to remove the mote/speck/splinter from the eyes of others?