Where there is the expectation of privilege, equality will be seen as persecution. No group in this country expects privilege quite like conservative Christians, who expect the world to defer to their religious beliefs and never challenge them. Trying to portray themselves as victims here, is a case in point.
Indeed, that "expectation of privilege" has been rampant throughout the United States for entirely too long. The blowback against that notion which we have been seeing more recently is a long overdue breath of fresh air. I hope the trend continues.
I very much fear that it will continue...right up till it reaches the Ecclesiastical Roberts Court. Then it will crash land with a thud loud enough to shake the nation.
It would seem as though Christian privilege is struggling against the Washington Elementary School District ... and LOSING. To which I say, "IT'S ABOUT FREAKING TIME!!!" This kind of realization that religion in general and Christianity in particular have no place in a secular education system. If parents want their children educated in the Bible or Torah or Quran, they can go to the appropriate schools for those topics. It is not the purpose or responsibility of a public school system to deal in those subjects.
And that the Washington, Arizona school system is recognizing that is a much-needed positive sign.
Public schools have to accept all students, but they can be discerning with their teachers. If the teacher looking to do field experience or student teaching is open about how they do not like or want to help or keep safe all the students, then their presence is not welcome. Do your shit at a Christian school. Get the subpar education you desire there. The Christian schools are allowed to reject LGBT, or non Christian students or even students of color if that is their choice. Public schools need to provide a quality, safe and up to date education for all children in the district. Allowing teachers to preach, proselytize, and judge the students interferes in the quality of the education.
I’m trying not to rant. If your Christianity is based on hating LGBT people, then yes it is your Christianity that is what I’m going to reject.
I attend a small Christian school and ended up on this page for research for a project. The statement you said "Get the subpar education you desire there," is false. The school I attend has pushed me in my acedemics since I was a young boy. The education is great. It is difficult, but, hard times create strong young adults. I do not reject LGBT people, I reject the sin they are living in. Mark 12:31 commands us to love our neighbor as ourself. I do not care what one identifies as, I will love them as the Lord loves them. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Obviously your education is still lacking since your reading comprehension is this poor.
Your comment is not filled with love for folks who might be different from you, it’s snide and disrespectful. Your personal choice to supposedly not reject LGBT people is irrelevant, the schools are allowed to and do publicly and hatefully. That is the issue. Public funds come just as much from LGBT people as from anyone else therefore the funds should not be going to organizations that will oppress them.
Love the sinner, hate the sin is a lie. Every single person who has ever mouthed those words have done or said things that harm the LGBT population and dehumanizes them. There’s no love in that. If your Christianity is based on these ridiculous, cherry picked, and misconstrued verses out of the Bible, then yes your Christianity is shit.
BTW, you prove my point with every comment you make. You can’t love sinner while hating something that is innate in them. They aren’t playacting, they aren’t picking a lifestyle, they are LGBT and because of people like you, they probably wish they could change just to get a moments peace from your hatred. There’s nothing wrong with them and they do not need to be changed. It is your choice to be a dickhead. Not LGBT people to be LGBT.
Sin is a human construct with no basis in reality. According to your book of fairy tales it's a sin to work on the sabbath, to eat shellfish, to shave, to wear fabrics made of more than one type of cloth. I bet you conveniently ignore most of those. If you want a better education, learn to think for yourself. That means learning to think critically.
"The school board's recent decision to ban ACU students from serving as student teachers was done for one reason only: our University's commitment to our Christian convictions…“
It’s your commitment to Christian bigotry. You may be convicted of them, they’re still bigotries.
OMG! Christian oppression. They can't teach at this school. Now all they have left is their unwarranted tax exemptions for the churches that infest ever village, town and city in America, their mythology on our currency, thousands of religious schools and universities and thousands of radio, tv and internet sites. Whatever will they do?
And the immediately operative bit is the huge numbers of religious schools that would be more than happy to take on ACU's student teachers. I've never been to Arizona, but I can't imagine they're in short supply there.
Yes, we sure would take Christian teachers at our Christian schools. We have the right to hire whoever we desire. However, the Lord commands us to go forth into ALL NATIONS preaching the gospel to ALL. It is good to raise young Christians teaching them to walk deeper into their faith, but preaching the gospel to all includes students attending public schools. For some, this is their ministry, if you don't want to hear our opinions preached in public places, don't live in a free country. Without religious freedoms, all others will waiver.
I saw the headline of this article and my first thought was “until the death threats roll in.” And by the end of the article I knew what these good people will now be facing. I will guarantee the threats will come from outside the district , at least some of the more violent ones.
"Board President Nikki Gomez-Whaley noted that the possible decision to cease the partnership was not about Christianity. It was about bigotry:"
"After word got back to right-wing propaganda outlets, those websites immediately acted like these board members were anti-Christian."
As the daylight between those vaunted yet never spelled-out "Christian values" and plain old bigotry continues to get squeezed narrower and narrower, as they more broadly become indistinguishable, and as the often-mentioned non-bigoted Christians' SILENCE becomes more and more DEAFENING, statements that portray opposition to bigotry as opposition to Christian values are actually becoming more correct.
This is because your values are not shown by what you say, or what you think, or what you believe, and certainly not shown in an old hodge podge of a book that has been used to justify every position on every topic and its opposite. No, your values are shown by WHAT YOU DO, and increasingly Christians do the business of bigotry. Then they whine about their bruised rights when people call them out on how ugly their business is.
I would ask meant by whom? I think many people don't find monogamy that hard, but OTOH, quite a few do. As long as both parties are aboveboard and no one is coerced, non-monogamous relationships are no-one's business but the people involved.
AIUI genetics have shown that the species hit at least one bottleneck where we came close to dropping below viability, so it wouldn't surprise me to learn that we developed an instinct to widen the gene pool, just like we have an instinct to reproduce indiscriminately.
We're facing a real problem with our instincts. Things that made sense for a population of a few million hunter-gathers with many predators, don't work for a population of 7-8 billion people when most don't have to do extensive physical labor to get the basics of survival and have mostly severely restricted the number of predators that come in contact with humans.
I still recall from middle school, the Christian college student gym teacher who broke my hand throwing a playground ball hard, during a game of “prison ball”. He kept his job, but I failed my typing class.
I don't see how him being a Christian effects your unathleticism. Maybe try catching the ball. That's the point of the game. Don't get hit. I have a friend who broke his hand skiing and couldn't pass the typing class. Did he blame his ski coach for not teaching him properly, no. Also, did you type this comment or use text to speech. I don't think failing a typing class ruined your life.
I'm torn about this. On one hand I dislike any association between a public school and a religious organization and find this decision makes me feel good. On the other hand, my sense of fairness says, they didn't see the student teachers discriminating against LGBT or non-Christian students or denigrating them in any way, so just the fact they attend a bigoted Christian school, doesn't mean they bring a bigoted Christianity to these classrooms, any more than a gay student teacher brings zir homosexuality to the classroom.
I'll admit I'm the type of person who tries to give the benefit of the doubt to people. (That doesn't mean I don't recognize implication and insinuation unlike some posters)
When I student taught* a number of the kids in my classes, looking forward to their search for a college, plied me with questions about Duquesne U. I'd be very surprised if ACU's student teachers didn't experience that same thing. One way or another, the kids will find out what they represent.
*My parents offered to pay the part of my tuition not covered by my scholarship if I'd agree to go to a Catholic college. So I bit the bullet and did it. And when it came time for my student teaching, guess where Duquesne sent me? Right back to dear old North Catholic High School, the place where I'd been raped by two of the faculty. And I was supposed to think of the Catholic church as a "Holy Mother." Needless to say, I subverted the kids in as many ways as I thought I could get away with. But being there again was still an ordeal.
Yet another reason for free tuition at public universities. Parents using purse strings to force their children's choice of tertiary schooling. It's not the parent's life. Feel free to offer advice, but don't try to force children into your mold.
The great thing about NZ is that there are no religious universities. The odd theological college, but that's pretty much from priest training. One downside is that ultrareligious kids often don't go to university, which is a great pity.
Us Christians do not call you bigots for going against our beliefs. I don't think you have any right to call us bigots for merely disagreeing with you. Tolerance is not acceptance, it is managing peace between two opposing sides. Try letting one disagree. Throwing insults will not help your case.
And you want to know what's a bigger insult than bigot? Groomer. Pedophile. We hear those all the time on national TV.
Christians have advocated for the government to line us up and put bullets through our heads. I notice they don't call for executing disobedient children though the bible calls for that as well. Or for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, which the bible also calls for.
So, cry me a river, about being called a bigot when you try to make laws to make us second class citizens or worse.
And before you tell me, "We're not all like that.", then you need to be shouting down the ones who are rather than letting them define what a Christian is.
You're "disagreeing" about our right to exist, to live our lives without interference from you. We're "disagreeing" about telling kids they're broken and going to hell because of who they are, driving 40% to contemplate suicide and that's the ones who lived to tell the tale.
When you try to tell us who we can have sex with, who we can marry, where we can buy a cake or flowers, that's not a disagreement. That we can't have our spouse on our insurance, that we can't adopt kids, that's not a disagreement.
Tolerance is letting people live their lives without your interference unless they actually harm you with their actions.
Tolerance is not taking children away from their parents because they support their trans kids and don't want to let puberty make irreversible changes to the child's body before they're old enough to make their own medical decisions. That is bigotry. That is what many Christians support, and that is bigoted Christianity. Christians who are willing to let us live our lives, let kids be who they are instead of trying to force them into a mold are not bigots, but from my experience, such Christians are few and far between and let the bigots speak for them as to what is Christian.
I honestly would be okay with letting the students participate, but as the one member said, they have to follow *the district's* rules and regs when doing so, not their university's. Any bigotry or bible preaching, you're out. If that's enforced, I expect ACU might opt out of the program themselves.
But say they don't, and the monitoring is done right. So there's no proselytizing going on. This helps the students by giving them TAs and it helps the young would-be teachers who grew up in a fundie environment become less fundie by exposing them to all the regular kids, parents, teachers etc. they've been told are horrible. That sort of social exposure, creating friendships, working together and side by side with someone you've been told to hate, etc. is the best way to deprogram them. And frankly I expect a lot of them might already be secretly more open than their parents or ACU professors. Lots of these Christian universities are more about selling *the parents* some false notion that their kids will be cocooned from the real world, when the kids themselves don't share it. At least IMO.
That’s all well and good, exposing the student teachers (not TAs) to folks they are programmed to hate, but the issue is that the students are not there to be life lessons, or examples, or fundie deprogramming tools. Students are there to learn and that requires a safe environment, which is not done by including fundie teachers who are instructed by their college to proselytize and shame.
Protecting the students should be the first priority of any public school, and fixing fundies doesn’t help.
Protecting them from what? Have past ACU teachers acted out of line?
Absolutely boot out ACU student teachers who don't follow the rules. And boot the school entirely if there is a continued pattern of rule-breaking. I have no problem with responding to empirical evidence that the relationship results in proselytizing by removing them or the school entirely. But I also have no problem responding to "no empirical evidence of proselityzing" by letting them continue to participate. That is in fact what we should do with teachers: judge them by their conduct in the classroom. Right?
Or should school boards act like the Department of Precrime now?
As for safety...yes, people should be safe from harm. But that does not entitle a person to forbid others from jobs just because their beliefs make you feel some way. Denial of a job should be linked to misconduct (note that "conduct" is part of that word), criminal behavior or a credible threat. And I think it is absolutely mad that liberals are supporting such a position. Can't you see just how horribly discriminatory such a system can be? That person is black; it makes me feel unsafe. That Muslim person makes me feel unsafe. This is exactly the same. It's liberals taking a page out of the right-wing playbook, just changing the target. And sometimes, not even doing that - when the Palestinian kid says they feel unsafe because their teacher is Jewish, are you going to boot the teacher because you must Protect The Student?
Does the school accept student teachers from every university no matter their standings? Apparently not because this school had to have a contract, a contract the district decided wasn’t worth the risk.
Who says there wasn’t evidence the student teachers were proselytizing or causing harm to the LGBT students? If the university objectively has policies that are bigoted or harmful (and they do) then the district can and ought to think twice before signing a contract with them. This isn’t just rejecting Christians, this is rejecting an organization with bigoted policies.
And let’s clear up something here, student teaching is not a job, it is a learning experience. Student teachers are not paid, nor do they file paperwork with HR or interview or anything else required to be employed with the district. So the district isn’t denying jobs to anyone. But if the teachers that graduated from ACU wish to apply to the school district, they can still compete for the teaching positions, no one has said they cannot. They might even be hired if they can show they’re the best candidate. The district is just saying they will not work with the university anymore to provide student teaching and field experience opportunities. None of the student teachers are going to be student teaching once the new school year starts and they will not be affected by the contract ending. New student teachers will have other schools to learn at.
It is the policies, not the religion, that is harmful even if the student teachers are not doing anything. This is not about the teachers, it’s about the university, it’s about the bigoted policies.
As for your examples, you are talking about generalization of all Muslim people or Jewish people versus refusing to work with a group who has policies specifically calling for harm to certain members of the student body. If you can’t see the nuance, I can’t help you. You sound like the right wing news and Twitter responses.
Are they going to proselytise? If not I wouldn't have any great objection. They learn about normality, teach the prescription or whatever you call it over there, and keep their mouths shut. Could be a win if doubts are sowed. 😇
I try to treat people as individuals and not as stand ins for some group or ideology. That's why I don't think the board should have discontinued the contract until they found out if the university was willing to follow their rules and if the student teachers were violating the rules.
They are there representing a school that opposes basic human and civil rights for the most vulnerable of children. The school has no obligation to host them. We don't know if they were violating the rules because minors, particularly LGBT minors are already an oppressed minority thanks to christstains and less likely to draw attention to themselves even if being abused by xtians.
If we want to be judged as individuals then ask the student teachers themselves if they could follow the rules. What you are saying comes really close to prohibiting any conservative Christian from being a teacher. My eyes were opened by coming to know gay persons during my time in academia. The same could happen to these student teachers.
I don't just know gay persons, I am a gay person and I don't have unwarranted privilege like xtians. I dealt with xtian hate and oppression while growing up gay. In fact all the hate is based upon xtian teachings and dogma. If you ask haters why they hate gay people invariably they use a religious argument. What you're saying is that we should ignore the onslaught of hate, oppression and stigma that the christian religion assaults us gay folk with because NALT. Too bad. If they can't publicly disavow the hate, they shouldn't teach in public schools. Conservative christians can pound salt.
I also call bs on your argument. They can be teachers, in private christian schools, of which there are many and in public ones if they renounce the hatred.
I understand why you feel the way you do but how is tossing Christians out of student teaching positions any different than when gay persons would get the boot in the past? It was wrong then. It is wrong now. Treat others as individuals and not as stand ins for some group as long as they are willing to follow the rules.
We don't, yet, in this country treat "thought crime" as a firing offense. Would you be comfortable with someone deciding to fire you just because you're gay?
Exactly, this both siderism from him trying to make the rights of bigots to continue to discriminate equal to the rights of a minority to exist is disgusting.
That's funny. Many of them group me with you because I don't go along with discrimination against gays and transgender persons. There is nothing in my theology or understanding of the Bible which supports persecuting LGBTQs.
Others, not me, have thought it would be a better choice for gays to stay in the closet. Do you want people like that to determine whether or not you can be a student teacher? If not, then why do the same kind of thing to others?
Where there is the expectation of privilege, equality will be seen as persecution. No group in this country expects privilege quite like conservative Christians, who expect the world to defer to their religious beliefs and never challenge them. Trying to portray themselves as victims here, is a case in point.
Indeed, that "expectation of privilege" has been rampant throughout the United States for entirely too long. The blowback against that notion which we have been seeing more recently is a long overdue breath of fresh air. I hope the trend continues.
I very much fear that it will continue...right up till it reaches the Ecclesiastical Roberts Court. Then it will crash land with a thud loud enough to shake the nation.
It would seem as though Christian privilege is struggling against the Washington Elementary School District ... and LOSING. To which I say, "IT'S ABOUT FREAKING TIME!!!" This kind of realization that religion in general and Christianity in particular have no place in a secular education system. If parents want their children educated in the Bible or Torah or Quran, they can go to the appropriate schools for those topics. It is not the purpose or responsibility of a public school system to deal in those subjects.
And that the Washington, Arizona school system is recognizing that is a much-needed positive sign.
Same for ACU's teachers, your country doesn't lack of private schools with the same values who can hire them.
"New Arizona school board member says the district should not hire Christian teachers".
Lying liars for jeebus lying again. **checks calendar** Yep, another day ending in y.
Public schools have to accept all students, but they can be discerning with their teachers. If the teacher looking to do field experience or student teaching is open about how they do not like or want to help or keep safe all the students, then their presence is not welcome. Do your shit at a Christian school. Get the subpar education you desire there. The Christian schools are allowed to reject LGBT, or non Christian students or even students of color if that is their choice. Public schools need to provide a quality, safe and up to date education for all children in the district. Allowing teachers to preach, proselytize, and judge the students interferes in the quality of the education.
I’m trying not to rant. If your Christianity is based on hating LGBT people, then yes it is your Christianity that is what I’m going to reject.
I attend a small Christian school and ended up on this page for research for a project. The statement you said "Get the subpar education you desire there," is false. The school I attend has pushed me in my acedemics since I was a young boy. The education is great. It is difficult, but, hard times create strong young adults. I do not reject LGBT people, I reject the sin they are living in. Mark 12:31 commands us to love our neighbor as ourself. I do not care what one identifies as, I will love them as the Lord loves them. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Obviously your education is still lacking since your reading comprehension is this poor.
Your comment is not filled with love for folks who might be different from you, it’s snide and disrespectful. Your personal choice to supposedly not reject LGBT people is irrelevant, the schools are allowed to and do publicly and hatefully. That is the issue. Public funds come just as much from LGBT people as from anyone else therefore the funds should not be going to organizations that will oppress them.
Love the sinner, hate the sin is a lie. Every single person who has ever mouthed those words have done or said things that harm the LGBT population and dehumanizes them. There’s no love in that. If your Christianity is based on these ridiculous, cherry picked, and misconstrued verses out of the Bible, then yes your Christianity is shit.
BTW, you prove my point with every comment you make. You can’t love sinner while hating something that is innate in them. They aren’t playacting, they aren’t picking a lifestyle, they are LGBT and because of people like you, they probably wish they could change just to get a moments peace from your hatred. There’s nothing wrong with them and they do not need to be changed. It is your choice to be a dickhead. Not LGBT people to be LGBT.
Sin is a human construct with no basis in reality. According to your book of fairy tales it's a sin to work on the sabbath, to eat shellfish, to shave, to wear fabrics made of more than one type of cloth. I bet you conveniently ignore most of those. If you want a better education, learn to think for yourself. That means learning to think critically.
Sin:
Self
Inflicted
Nonsense
"The school board's recent decision to ban ACU students from serving as student teachers was done for one reason only: our University's commitment to our Christian convictions…“
It’s your commitment to Christian bigotry. You may be convicted of them, they’re still bigotries.
OMG! Christian oppression. They can't teach at this school. Now all they have left is their unwarranted tax exemptions for the churches that infest ever village, town and city in America, their mythology on our currency, thousands of religious schools and universities and thousands of radio, tv and internet sites. Whatever will they do?
And the immediately operative bit is the huge numbers of religious schools that would be more than happy to take on ACU's student teachers. I've never been to Arizona, but I can't imagine they're in short supply there.
Yes, we sure would take Christian teachers at our Christian schools. We have the right to hire whoever we desire. However, the Lord commands us to go forth into ALL NATIONS preaching the gospel to ALL. It is good to raise young Christians teaching them to walk deeper into their faith, but preaching the gospel to all includes students attending public schools. For some, this is their ministry, if you don't want to hear our opinions preached in public places, don't live in a free country. Without religious freedoms, all others will waiver.
Religious freedom doesn't give you the right to force people to listen to your "opinions". "Opinions" you're forcing into the law.
Your preaching to all is anti-social behavior. Just because you're being told to shut up, doesn't mean your being persecuted.
Super pour ma pomme j'crèche en Gaulie c'est plus libre de lavage de cerveau qu'Usanistan.
The lard is a fairy tale for small minds that lack critical thinking skills.
I saw the headline of this article and my first thought was “until the death threats roll in.” And by the end of the article I knew what these good people will now be facing. I will guarantee the threats will come from outside the district , at least some of the more violent ones.
Alright... now pick up the spare, and yank that shithole's accreditation.
I know, I know- the state government probably doesn't care. Good on the school board, though.
"Board President Nikki Gomez-Whaley noted that the possible decision to cease the partnership was not about Christianity. It was about bigotry:"
"After word got back to right-wing propaganda outlets, those websites immediately acted like these board members were anti-Christian."
As the daylight between those vaunted yet never spelled-out "Christian values" and plain old bigotry continues to get squeezed narrower and narrower, as they more broadly become indistinguishable, and as the often-mentioned non-bigoted Christians' SILENCE becomes more and more DEAFENING, statements that portray opposition to bigotry as opposition to Christian values are actually becoming more correct.
This is because your values are not shown by what you say, or what you think, or what you believe, and certainly not shown in an old hodge podge of a book that has been used to justify every position on every topic and its opposite. No, your values are shown by WHAT YOU DO, and increasingly Christians do the business of bigotry. Then they whine about their bruised rights when people call them out on how ugly their business is.
If human beings were meant to be monogamous for life, we would be penguins.
I would ask meant by whom? I think many people don't find monogamy that hard, but OTOH, quite a few do. As long as both parties are aboveboard and no one is coerced, non-monogamous relationships are no-one's business but the people involved.
AIUI genetics have shown that the species hit at least one bottleneck where we came close to dropping below viability, so it wouldn't surprise me to learn that we developed an instinct to widen the gene pool, just like we have an instinct to reproduce indiscriminately.
We're facing a real problem with our instincts. Things that made sense for a population of a few million hunter-gathers with many predators, don't work for a population of 7-8 billion people when most don't have to do extensive physical labor to get the basics of survival and have mostly severely restricted the number of predators that come in contact with humans.
I still recall from middle school, the Christian college student gym teacher who broke my hand throwing a playground ball hard, during a game of “prison ball”. He kept his job, but I failed my typing class.
I don't see how him being a Christian effects your unathleticism. Maybe try catching the ball. That's the point of the game. Don't get hit. I have a friend who broke his hand skiing and couldn't pass the typing class. Did he blame his ski coach for not teaching him properly, no. Also, did you type this comment or use text to speech. I don't think failing a typing class ruined your life.
How do you think his hand got broken, genius?
??
I'm torn about this. On one hand I dislike any association between a public school and a religious organization and find this decision makes me feel good. On the other hand, my sense of fairness says, they didn't see the student teachers discriminating against LGBT or non-Christian students or denigrating them in any way, so just the fact they attend a bigoted Christian school, doesn't mean they bring a bigoted Christianity to these classrooms, any more than a gay student teacher brings zir homosexuality to the classroom.
I'll admit I'm the type of person who tries to give the benefit of the doubt to people. (That doesn't mean I don't recognize implication and insinuation unlike some posters)
When I student taught* a number of the kids in my classes, looking forward to their search for a college, plied me with questions about Duquesne U. I'd be very surprised if ACU's student teachers didn't experience that same thing. One way or another, the kids will find out what they represent.
*My parents offered to pay the part of my tuition not covered by my scholarship if I'd agree to go to a Catholic college. So I bit the bullet and did it. And when it came time for my student teaching, guess where Duquesne sent me? Right back to dear old North Catholic High School, the place where I'd been raped by two of the faculty. And I was supposed to think of the Catholic church as a "Holy Mother." Needless to say, I subverted the kids in as many ways as I thought I could get away with. But being there again was still an ordeal.
Yet another reason for free tuition at public universities. Parents using purse strings to force their children's choice of tertiary schooling. It's not the parent's life. Feel free to offer advice, but don't try to force children into your mold.
The great thing about NZ is that there are no religious universities. The odd theological college, but that's pretty much from priest training. One downside is that ultrareligious kids often don't go to university, which is a great pity.
Catholic schools are run by human beings, sinners just like yourself. Most Catholic schools are in fact anti-Catholic in their operation.
Us Christians do not call you bigots for going against our beliefs. I don't think you have any right to call us bigots for merely disagreeing with you. Tolerance is not acceptance, it is managing peace between two opposing sides. Try letting one disagree. Throwing insults will not help your case.
And you want to know what's a bigger insult than bigot? Groomer. Pedophile. We hear those all the time on national TV.
Christians have advocated for the government to line us up and put bullets through our heads. I notice they don't call for executing disobedient children though the bible calls for that as well. Or for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, which the bible also calls for.
So, cry me a river, about being called a bigot when you try to make laws to make us second class citizens or worse.
And before you tell me, "We're not all like that.", then you need to be shouting down the ones who are rather than letting them define what a Christian is.
You're "disagreeing" about our right to exist, to live our lives without interference from you. We're "disagreeing" about telling kids they're broken and going to hell because of who they are, driving 40% to contemplate suicide and that's the ones who lived to tell the tale.
When you try to tell us who we can have sex with, who we can marry, where we can buy a cake or flowers, that's not a disagreement. That we can't have our spouse on our insurance, that we can't adopt kids, that's not a disagreement.
Tolerance is letting people live their lives without your interference unless they actually harm you with their actions.
It's not a disagreement. It's survival.
Tolerance is not taking children away from their parents because they support their trans kids and don't want to let puberty make irreversible changes to the child's body before they're old enough to make their own medical decisions. That is bigotry. That is what many Christians support, and that is bigoted Christianity. Christians who are willing to let us live our lives, let kids be who they are instead of trying to force them into a mold are not bigots, but from my experience, such Christians are few and far between and let the bigots speak for them as to what is Christian.
I honestly would be okay with letting the students participate, but as the one member said, they have to follow *the district's* rules and regs when doing so, not their university's. Any bigotry or bible preaching, you're out. If that's enforced, I expect ACU might opt out of the program themselves.
But say they don't, and the monitoring is done right. So there's no proselytizing going on. This helps the students by giving them TAs and it helps the young would-be teachers who grew up in a fundie environment become less fundie by exposing them to all the regular kids, parents, teachers etc. they've been told are horrible. That sort of social exposure, creating friendships, working together and side by side with someone you've been told to hate, etc. is the best way to deprogram them. And frankly I expect a lot of them might already be secretly more open than their parents or ACU professors. Lots of these Christian universities are more about selling *the parents* some false notion that their kids will be cocooned from the real world, when the kids themselves don't share it. At least IMO.
That’s all well and good, exposing the student teachers (not TAs) to folks they are programmed to hate, but the issue is that the students are not there to be life lessons, or examples, or fundie deprogramming tools. Students are there to learn and that requires a safe environment, which is not done by including fundie teachers who are instructed by their college to proselytize and shame.
Protecting the students should be the first priority of any public school, and fixing fundies doesn’t help.
Protecting them from what? Have past ACU teachers acted out of line?
Absolutely boot out ACU student teachers who don't follow the rules. And boot the school entirely if there is a continued pattern of rule-breaking. I have no problem with responding to empirical evidence that the relationship results in proselytizing by removing them or the school entirely. But I also have no problem responding to "no empirical evidence of proselityzing" by letting them continue to participate. That is in fact what we should do with teachers: judge them by their conduct in the classroom. Right?
Or should school boards act like the Department of Precrime now?
As for safety...yes, people should be safe from harm. But that does not entitle a person to forbid others from jobs just because their beliefs make you feel some way. Denial of a job should be linked to misconduct (note that "conduct" is part of that word), criminal behavior or a credible threat. And I think it is absolutely mad that liberals are supporting such a position. Can't you see just how horribly discriminatory such a system can be? That person is black; it makes me feel unsafe. That Muslim person makes me feel unsafe. This is exactly the same. It's liberals taking a page out of the right-wing playbook, just changing the target. And sometimes, not even doing that - when the Palestinian kid says they feel unsafe because their teacher is Jewish, are you going to boot the teacher because you must Protect The Student?
Does the school accept student teachers from every university no matter their standings? Apparently not because this school had to have a contract, a contract the district decided wasn’t worth the risk.
Who says there wasn’t evidence the student teachers were proselytizing or causing harm to the LGBT students? If the university objectively has policies that are bigoted or harmful (and they do) then the district can and ought to think twice before signing a contract with them. This isn’t just rejecting Christians, this is rejecting an organization with bigoted policies.
And let’s clear up something here, student teaching is not a job, it is a learning experience. Student teachers are not paid, nor do they file paperwork with HR or interview or anything else required to be employed with the district. So the district isn’t denying jobs to anyone. But if the teachers that graduated from ACU wish to apply to the school district, they can still compete for the teaching positions, no one has said they cannot. They might even be hired if they can show they’re the best candidate. The district is just saying they will not work with the university anymore to provide student teaching and field experience opportunities. None of the student teachers are going to be student teaching once the new school year starts and they will not be affected by the contract ending. New student teachers will have other schools to learn at.
It is the policies, not the religion, that is harmful even if the student teachers are not doing anything. This is not about the teachers, it’s about the university, it’s about the bigoted policies.
As for your examples, you are talking about generalization of all Muslim people or Jewish people versus refusing to work with a group who has policies specifically calling for harm to certain members of the student body. If you can’t see the nuance, I can’t help you. You sound like the right wing news and Twitter responses.
Are they going to proselytise? If not I wouldn't have any great objection. They learn about normality, teach the prescription or whatever you call it over there, and keep their mouths shut. Could be a win if doubts are sowed. 😇
I try to treat people as individuals and not as stand ins for some group or ideology. That's why I don't think the board should have discontinued the contract until they found out if the university was willing to follow their rules and if the student teachers were violating the rules.
They are there representing a school that opposes basic human and civil rights for the most vulnerable of children. The school has no obligation to host them. We don't know if they were violating the rules because minors, particularly LGBT minors are already an oppressed minority thanks to christstains and less likely to draw attention to themselves even if being abused by xtians.
If we want to be judged as individuals then ask the student teachers themselves if they could follow the rules. What you are saying comes really close to prohibiting any conservative Christian from being a teacher. My eyes were opened by coming to know gay persons during my time in academia. The same could happen to these student teachers.
I don't just know gay persons, I am a gay person and I don't have unwarranted privilege like xtians. I dealt with xtian hate and oppression while growing up gay. In fact all the hate is based upon xtian teachings and dogma. If you ask haters why they hate gay people invariably they use a religious argument. What you're saying is that we should ignore the onslaught of hate, oppression and stigma that the christian religion assaults us gay folk with because NALT. Too bad. If they can't publicly disavow the hate, they shouldn't teach in public schools. Conservative christians can pound salt.
I also call bs on your argument. They can be teachers, in private christian schools, of which there are many and in public ones if they renounce the hatred.
I understand why you feel the way you do but how is tossing Christians out of student teaching positions any different than when gay persons would get the boot in the past? It was wrong then. It is wrong now. Treat others as individuals and not as stand ins for some group as long as they are willing to follow the rules.
Yes. Gay people didn't choose to be gay. Bigots choose to be bigots.
Thank you.
We don't, yet, in this country treat "thought crime" as a firing offense. Would you be comfortable with someone deciding to fire you just because you're gay?
It's easy to judge the individual by the choices they make. Choose to go to a cannibal cultist-run "school", be known for choosing hate and bigotry.
Exactly, this both siderism from him trying to make the rights of bigots to continue to discriminate equal to the rights of a minority to exist is disgusting.
That's really an unfair statement to make.
No it's not. If you align yourself with hateful bigots and defend their hateful theology, then I will group you with them.
That's funny. Many of them group me with you because I don't go along with discrimination against gays and transgender persons. There is nothing in my theology or understanding of the Bible which supports persecuting LGBTQs.
Nope. We judge people based on their choices as a matter of course. They should make better choices.
Others, not me, have thought it would be a better choice for gays to stay in the closet. Do you want people like that to determine whether or not you can be a student teacher? If not, then why do the same kind of thing to others?