233 Comments
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Chris Parker's avatar

Thanks to Hemant for bringing this to my attention in August of 2022. I was able to get in touch with FFRF and be the lead plaintiff in this case, along with three others (Ian quoted in the article is also based in Greenville County). I was the one that had standing in that my two kids go to schools in Greenville County and was asked to be the lead plaintiff by FFRF. I must admit that it was a bit nerve wracking given the possible blowback I could face given where I live (home of Bob Jones University for one). I even had to sit down with my two teenagers and explain what was about to happen and reassure them that this was something that their dad had to do, to take a stand. It was satisfying to take a stand for the Establishment Clause and I was pleasantly surprised that the South Carolina Constitution is even stronger in its prohibition of tax payer funds going to sectarian institutions. A major thank you to Patrick Elliott and Karen Heineman of FFRF and Steven Buckingham, the local SC based attorney that handled the case for us and FFRF. I was pleased at the outcome for the most part, what with the judge tossing out the case as Christian Learning Centers of Greenville County withdrew their request for the money. But a win is a win. Ian was correct in that this being SC, more of this can be expected. It just means that more people need to stand up for secularism and the separation of church and state more than ever.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Congratulations to you for standing up for public schools. Doxing is not a joke.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Only one appropriate response, really: 𝘉𝘳𝘢-𝘷𝘰!

https://media.tenor.com/Sq7rY9NKKd4AAAAC/oscars-standing-ovation.gif

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Elia's avatar

Well done! May your courage be an example for others to follow.

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Maltnothops's avatar

Thank you for standing up on behalf of all of us.

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Richard S. Russell's avatar

It's kind of regrettable that the reason those provisions are in so many state constitutions is because of the anti-Catholic sentiment that pervaded much of the country when we started getting lots of immigrants from places like Italy, Spain, Poland, Croatia, Austria, etc. The Catholics themselves, discriminated against in public schools that then featured Protestant Bible readings and prayers, took to creating their own parochial schools, and the Protestants wanted to make damn sure those schools didn't get any of THEIR tax money.

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oraxx's avatar

No religious institution, be it a school or otherwise, should ever get one cent of public money, for any reason. The law makers who thought they could get away with this would go out of their tiny little minds at the mere suggestion public money go to an Islamic school. There needs to be national legislation that bars religious organizations from having access to public schools, period. It isn't as if this country suffers from a lack of churches.

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Bill Lawrence's avatar

Totally agree. But I'm sure legislators don't have the intestinal fortitude to introduce this legislation. We suffer from a surfeit of churches, not the lack of them.

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oraxx's avatar

I have long contended the staggering number of Christian tribes should be a bigger problem for believers than it is. It is simply something they have grown used to, and they seldom if ever, stop to consider how bizarre it is to worship a god who can't make himself understood.

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Bill Lawrence's avatar

And so many people will say, with a straight face, "MY god wouldn't do/say that...", implying that every Christian has his "own god." It's bizarre.

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oraxx's avatar

The Christian God is nothing, if not flexible.

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cdbunch's avatar

Gumby should be so flexible.

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Richard S. Russell's avatar

There are no maps of world equations, differing from one region to the next. You can have a state flower or bird, but there aren’t any state chemicals. You will not find an azure astronomy, a Baptist biology, a capitalist chemistry, an Egyptian engineering, a mammalian math, or a feminist physics. There’s only one worldwide version of each, because they’re all based on FACTS, not accidents of birth or matters of opinion.

Conversely, religion is nothing BUT opinions, no facts involved, which is why anybody’s word on religion is just as good as anyone else’s (to wit, no good at all). And, since there’s no way of resolving doctrinal disputes, we have (no kidding) 45,000 different sects of Christianity, more added weekly.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Is meth considered a chemical? I think it's the state chemical in several places.

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cdbunch's avatar

Oh, there's one way of resolving doctrinal disputes. Kill all those who disagree with you. Europe had several hundred years of that, so did Jerusalem.

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Maltnothops's avatar

“Dead men preach no doctrine.”

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Troublesh00ter's avatar

"APPEARS" to violate State / Church separation?!? There's no "APPEARS" about it; it DOES violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, so blatantly that a blind man could see it with a cane. It's bad enough that some states provide vouchers for private (and mostly Christian schools). When a state budget has a line item like that, alarm bells should go off with ANYONE who genuinely cares about the secular nature of our government.

Thankfully, it was stopped here. Question is: where else is stuff like this going on?

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Joe King's avatar

Easier to answer where 𝘪𝘴𝘯'𝘵 stuff like this going on.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

The state constitution bans any private school from taxpayer money, good. Then they cannot say that it is discriminatory toward Christianity. A secular private school cannot get any tax money either, nor can a Jewish school or Muslim school, or a Satanist school. So the persecution card is void, even though they’ll cry persecution till the cows come home.

Tax money for public schools need to go to public schools, full stop. Vouchers are essentially unconstitutional in this state and no politician should be trying to bring them up. Vouchers should be unconstitutional everywhere too. They’re an end run around directly defunding public schools. They can’t win on that platform, so the GOP lies about what vouchers really are, calling them parental choice, but they’re really defund the public school system so the poor and minorities don’t get an education at all.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Beat me to it as I was typing it.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I wonder when, not if, one of two SC senators will going to cry on conservative outlets and which one will be the first. I bet on "la belle du sud".

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Joe King's avatar

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑣𝑜𝑖𝑑 𝑔𝑖𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑑𝑒𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠

Because of course they did. They think the only time they should be held accountable for their actions is after they die, and even then they expect to be rewarded instead of punished for their blatant disregard for others.

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Richard S. Russell's avatar

Anyone from Wisconsin (or, heck, anywhere really) who's reading this might want to get behind the efforts of Kirk Bangstad of the Minocqua Brewing Company's Super PAC, which is sponsoring a lawsuit to get parochial-school vouchers declared unconstitutional here in the Badger State.

95% of the private schools in Wisconsin are affiliated with some religious organization. As private entities, they are free to pick and choose their students, so they can (and DO) discriminate on the basis of not only religion but academic talent, athletic ability, able-bodiedness, and (not loudly) race and ethnicity. By being able to cherry-pick their students from the public schools (which, by law, must serve EVERYBODY), they are reducing the public schools to being the educational option of last resort.

Aiding in this process are two American social movements: Christian nationalists (who oppose secularization in all aspects of public life) and economic conservatives (who oppose public funding of pretty much everything except national defense). And, thru their influence on the most gerrymandered state legislature in the nation, they've rigged the state budget so that it now gives MORE money on a per-pupil basis to private schools than public ones. They've made this task even easier by imposing cost controls and levy limits on the public schools and allowing the state share of school costs to dwindle from its former two-thirds to less than half, piling more and more burden on inequitable local property taxes.

Bangstad's Super PAC has filed a lawsuit challenging this state of affairs on the basis of both the state constitution's mandate to support public education and the federal First Amendment guarantee forbidding a government establishment of religion. As a fund-raiser to help finance this lawsuit, they're offering a very nice T-shirt that lets you show the world that you favor keeping church and state separate. You may order one here:

https://www.minocquabrewingcompany.com/products/separation-of-church-and-state-shirt

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I need someone in the army deployed in Europe to order one 🙄

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RegularJoe's avatar

Um....why?

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Order one and follow the steps in check out.

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Kay-El's avatar

Ooooo, I like that shirt

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Kay-El's avatar

Bought!!

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OwossoHarpist's avatar

O/T: Would you believe that Moms For Liberty Leader is a registered sex offender?

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/philadelphia/moms-for-liberty-philadelphia-pastor-sex-offender-20231120.html

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Kay-El's avatar

It’s so easy to check on this stuff. Many if not all states have a free database that the public can access. Even prison records are available in a lot of states (I was a researcher in my former life in case you’re wondering). MFL just doesn’t care as long as you’re for Jesus

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

A bigot for Jesus, I doubt mfl would have gotten along with Abbott Pierre.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Surprising absolutely no one here.

(damn paywall won't let me read the article)

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Thanks. That worked.

Morons for Liberty sure can pick 'em. Guess they never heard of vetting.

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Kay-El's avatar

It’s truly gobsmacking how many don’t. There was a policeman here who got fired for initiating sex with a domestic violence victim. A neighboring town then hired him. WTF? There was a backlash and they rescinded. I don’t know, maybe the town didn’t give a shit.

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

And yet a minimum wage worker can be fired or not hired if zir drug test shows up with pot on it. Priorities man. Gotta love ‘em.

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cdbunch's avatar

I love the fact a minimum wage retail worker is supposed to take being cussed out with a smile or be fired, but a cop gets a little attitude and someone's getting arrested (or worse). Damn blue snowflakes.

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Kay-El's avatar

Interesting. I was able to read it and when I went back to copy it for you, I was paywalled.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Stoopid interwebz.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

It could be worse (for me) and geowalled.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Refresh the page. It worked for me.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Merci. Works now.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

Mauvais murikhan, tu t'es servi d'un mot franchouillard 😁

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Guerillasurgeon's avatar

$1.5 million for a christian school $6000 for nutrition? Illustrative.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

It's the bible belt, where they worship an imaginary being almost as much as they do porn.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

Give the money to the christians and they can make a whole bunch of fish sandwiches.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Loaves and fishes all in one.

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Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz's avatar

The bible was never clear on whether or not he could do tartar sauce as well.

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Donrox's avatar

Well, you are not supposed to boil a kid in it's mother's milk, so the dairyness in the tartar sauce would definitely offend Yahweh with the meatiness of the fish.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

I'm not sure I'd want to know where that tartar sauce came from.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Wrong myth.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

"The Tatars[34] (/ˈtɑːtərz/ TAH-tərz),[35] sometimes referred to as Tartars"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars

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NOGODZ20's avatar

Hope South Carolina isn't pumping tax money into one of these...

https://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2023/11/20

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Len Koz's avatar

Wasn't that what the $1.5 million was really for?

(He writes after 2 separate edits because his brain just isn't working today)

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cdbunch's avatar

It's Monday. It's after 1700 here and I'm still not sure my brain is firing on all cylinders.

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Matri's avatar

You have cylinders?

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Kay-El's avatar

I love the comics section on this here site

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NOGODZ20's avatar

GLC of Greenville County wants $$$? It's very simple. Do what their savior told them and pray for it in his name. Pop's will come through. Jesus hisself guarandamntees it.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I read poop's 🤣

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

I wonder if the students accepted if this "learning center" had been built would all suffer of bone spurs.

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RegularJoe's avatar

It's either that or be "losers" and "suckers".

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Val Uptuous NotAgain's avatar

“Wow, we didn’t think we’d get caught with our Hans in the cookie jar. Those folks whose money we’re stealing shouldn’t have any say in how this money is being spent, the governor should be able to just dole it out as he sees fit. No silly constitution rules should be considered. I guess we’ll just withdraw and try again later.”

Good for these citizens for paying attention and standing up for what is right.

The facility for troubled youth would have required a great deal of oversight. Especially because it’s religious. Because we know how abusive they get in general, but the religious ones have quite the cruel streak when it comes to vulnerable youth. I’m glad they aren’t getting the money yet.

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Kay-El's avatar

Spot on, especially your last paragraph. I’ve read far too many articles on how abusive these places can be. A recipe for a never-ending vicious cycle.

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Black Hole and DM mourner's avatar

We had a major problem with a Jewish one a couple years back. Yet there was oversight + regular visits from politicians, both from France and Israel. It's one of the student who finally found the courage to escape and tell how it really was. Think Dickens.

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User's avatar
Comment deleted
Nov 20, 2023
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Joan the Dork's avatar

The only dessert anybody's having after partaking of one of Bakker's buckets is a handful of Immodium and some Pepto-Bismol.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

42nd-ranked South Carolina is also ranked 42nd in Education. I'm thinking that those taxpayer dollars would be better spent on the Palmetto State's public school system.

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Joe King's avatar

But that would make sense. Can't have that in Jesusland.

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Joan the Dork's avatar

Props to Mr. Whatley and the other plaintiffs for drawing a line in the sand to stop taxpayer funds being used to build yet another religious victim factory targeting the most vulnerable youth in the state. They prevented a great deal of suffering- maybe even saved a few lives.

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ericc's avatar

"he worried that it wouldn’t be long before the state tried again to use taxpayer dollars to prop up religion"

Oh, it's probably going to happen every year. Every single budget cycle. Because there's no real downside for the proposing legislator; either they get their earmark, or they don't and get goodwill from their constituents for trying and failing.

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NOGODZ20's avatar

OT

Warning: This is the sign of the apocalypse no one told us about...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSMZ72CTdvg

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larry parker's avatar

Sharknados will plague the land.

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Matri's avatar

That's 8 too many!

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cdbunch's avatar

I should point out, I bought all 6 on Vudu. Though I haven't watched the last one yet.

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