I want to say something that might get someone here’s attention. We see these stories all the time, some school district allows some egregious violations of the separation of church and state violating our children’s constitutional rights, how do we respond? We ask the FFRF or ACLU or other legal organization to utilize the law in appropriate and meaningful ways, and we win most of the time, and sometimes the corruption of our system gets exposed when we lose. Or the Satanic Temple tries to turn the tables by introducing their own version of what the Christians did. But through it all, we are civilized. Even in the comment section, we get angry and throw out the f-word or maybe get a little belligerent out of justified frustration. What we don’t do is call for folks deaths, threaten or intimidate, verbally or physically, the folks who crossed the law.
Now, someone will come here and say some dribble about, “it’s not right to force it, blah blah blah.” But on the next article about how the Christians in a community reacted violently, death threats online or phone messages, overrunning school board meetings with threatening rhetoric, to some other religion’s perspective. This school has a unit on Islam, or that school had a class on yoga in gym, or the Satanic Temple tried organizing an after school program to counter a Christian after school program that was illegally promoted by the school. And this same person will be here blaming the other religion for existing in the view of Christians, defending in a roundabout way the violence of the Christians by saying things like, “Christian’s believe Satan is bad, what did they expect.” Or “they should change the name of the organization and they won’t get the outrage.”
Here’s the deal. We’re outraged by this school’s actions. We’re looking at ways to correct the situation, and keep it from happening again through legal channels, and arguing in good faith for the law that best serves the entire population. We don’t threaten the preacher with violence, we don’t terrorize the school administration or student body. We may sound angry but we’re never cruel. Not even random atheists in the community are getting that worked up. But time and again the Christians are there, being terrorists to get their way. Or lying about what happened, what damage was caused or even being expected to be tolerant. Kennedy wasn’t fired, he lied about what happened. The cake people weren’t being forced to be a part of a wedding they didn’t believe in, they lied about the damage. And the website lady was never asked to make a get wedding website, she lied about being forced into tolerance. A Minnesota district had to reinstate the pledge of allegiance at Al school board meetings after credible death threats were made, that isn’t civilized behavior, that is straight up, the very definition of, terrorism. And yet atheists always painted as villains, just because we don’t let your unconstitutional behavior slide. I’m saying we need to be more clear about who the villains are, and keep calling them what they are, terrorists. And remind some that they’re defending terrorism.
I’m pretty sure I’ve made this point many times before.
The problem as I see it is that they are getting more bold with their bizarreness. They think acts like this win them points but it doesn’t. I feel bad for the kids
While religion and morality are not mutually exclusive, they are very far from the same thing. I cannot see anything remotely moral about this act of mind-numbing stupidity this basketball coach signed off on. This was all about one narrow view of religion being forced on teenagers by a man in a position of authority. This coach should lose his job, as should any administrator at that school who signed off on it. Conservative Christians NEVER stop trying to force their religion into the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars. It speaks directly to just how weak their message really is.
It has become the game of Theofascist Whac-a-mole. The individual events are becoming so common that people are going to be worn down into acquiescence. These people are committed dominionists and are using easy access to kids to propagandize them. it won't take with many of the kids, but it will with some. Read the beginning of Bart Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus' and you can get an appreciation for the years-long rabbit hole kids can fall into because of something like this.
I've always found it telling just how often Christians feel the need to violate laws, social standards, or general expectations to make sure they have the chance to push their faith on everyone else. At some point, I feel it reveals a massive insecurity about their beliefs that they just can't seem to stop taking over every public or private space. Their insistence on being the only exception to any rules forbidding such behavior only makes it worse.
I also think it's very telling that Christians so often go after young people, specifically because those young people don't have the experience to push back on some of the things so often claimed by proselytizing evangelists. It seems to me that these Christian evangelists are looking for what might be termed soft targets, and they're completely willing to do whatever is needed to get at them. When you break it down, incidents like this one show a staggering lack of religious faith and display a deep insecurity about how much the Christians think their God loves them.
It'd be nice if the major news outlets would call them on this crap more often. I can't see it happening, but it would be nice.
Fortner: "Okay boys, you wash each other's feet while I wash your brains."
One of the boys: "Praise Jesus!"
Most of the boys: (silently) "Whatever. I guess I gotta go along with this bullshit or Coach will be pissed."
Two or three of the boys: (silently) "I hate this. I think it's illegal. I can't wait to get outa this school."
_____
"Fortner deleted it. But not before it was shared on TikTok by a concerned woman (who also deleted her video to avoid local backlash)."
Breaking the law for Jesus, covering up the crime for Jesus, lying about it for Jesus, coercion for Jesus, harassment for Jesus, threats of violence for Jesus, (not many more steps) killing for Jesus.
Sometimes it's not a dismissable "slippery slope argument." Sometimes it's a predictable progression. The progression is almost never within one individual. Each person's ethical compromise gives permission for another, less ethical person to take the next step, and so on until a seriously disturbed individual feels his step is now permissible.
I once won a three point competition in middle school, and won a prize. I didn't mind that it was a biblical prize. My prize was that I was allowed to plunder rival Millard Fillmore Middle School. I burnt the crops, salted the land, killed the men, boys and those women who had know a man. And I was allowed to carry off any virgin girls I could find. You would think there would be a lot those, but it was Millard Fillmore Middle School we are talking about.
Imagine if a rabbi was brought in. Or a Satanic Church high priest. I’d love to see that! Or rather the reaction to it. Uber Christians, the most Jesus-y of them all, who have not one atom of irony in their brains, would spontaneously combust. Problem solved? 😆 Sorry, I live in Texas. It’s laugh or cry here.
First, Kennedy sued over losing his job over his personal religious liberty (the fact that he wasn’t fired or his liberty wasn’t violated wasn’t relevant to the SCROTUS decision, which is the travesty of the decision, didn’t stop him from appealing). This has none of that issue. There’s no coach or teacher rights involved. They shouldn’t be inviting preachers to practices, but doing so isn’t a personal religious act, like prayer is. It cannot be construed as a personal religious act, because it wasn’t for the coach or teacher, it was for the team. Kennedy got away with his shit because he claimed he was just praying to himself, everyone else just thought it was a good idea on their own (cough*bullshit*cough). This was a deliberate act to coerce the players, not even coerce them, force them into a religious sermon.
I won’t say they will never get away with it, because we all know what is going on in this country and there’s going to be a corrupt judge somewhere to let this slide, most likely the SCROTUS. They are well versed in writing prose that defends the indefensible at the request of the most corrupt. And they have the motivation to do so.
Second, every volunteer that enters the schools are subject to background checks, even parents. I have to get, and pay for, a background check every five years to be able to spend time in my children’s classrooms, or after school activity as a volunteer. Me, a parent of one of the students involved, needs to be checked out to ensure I will not harm the kids. I’m wondering if this preacher had a background check. Was he put under the same scrutiny that a parent would have to undergo to have access to these students, especially since it is clear he was in the locker room with them. He has access to the area and time of the most intimate moments of an athletic practice, and it isn’t clear that he was fully vetted. Why do I think he wasn’t fully vetted? Because to do the volunteer paperwork, someone had to explain who he was and what he was doing there, and there should have been flags raised at that time. So, the question is, did he get vetted or did more people than the coaches involved ignore the laws? Neither is a good look for the school.
I wish this type of violation showed up on background checks so that these zealous preachers would fail them and not have access to children’s locker rooms. But I know that even obvious sexual violations don’t get flagged when the community or churches don’t want their preachers held accountable. Impregnating a teenager doesn’t get caught on these things if he marries her. Shit like that. So, why would something like this make anyone take pause. Our system is so fucked up.
Anyway, third, washing of feet isn’t a mainstream Christian activity. I’m not sure if it’s all that specific to a sect that is not well known or liked, but maybe it’s something different enough that will have even Christians take offense. I mean, they’re mad over the Devil’s Birthday, sorry Halloween, that they don’t understand that it is a fully Christian holiday, they may be ignorant enough to get upset that this preacher is doing some pagan ritual with their kids. One can only hope.
I can't see this as being very effective even if it were legal. Your 'prize' is to do crap labor that doesn't need to be done. This doesn't teach a lesson about service to your fellow man. Talk them into volunteering at the local food bank, if you want to teach them that.
"It was lesson in teamwork, not proselytizing you godless heathen."
I want to say something that might get someone here’s attention. We see these stories all the time, some school district allows some egregious violations of the separation of church and state violating our children’s constitutional rights, how do we respond? We ask the FFRF or ACLU or other legal organization to utilize the law in appropriate and meaningful ways, and we win most of the time, and sometimes the corruption of our system gets exposed when we lose. Or the Satanic Temple tries to turn the tables by introducing their own version of what the Christians did. But through it all, we are civilized. Even in the comment section, we get angry and throw out the f-word or maybe get a little belligerent out of justified frustration. What we don’t do is call for folks deaths, threaten or intimidate, verbally or physically, the folks who crossed the law.
Now, someone will come here and say some dribble about, “it’s not right to force it, blah blah blah.” But on the next article about how the Christians in a community reacted violently, death threats online or phone messages, overrunning school board meetings with threatening rhetoric, to some other religion’s perspective. This school has a unit on Islam, or that school had a class on yoga in gym, or the Satanic Temple tried organizing an after school program to counter a Christian after school program that was illegally promoted by the school. And this same person will be here blaming the other religion for existing in the view of Christians, defending in a roundabout way the violence of the Christians by saying things like, “Christian’s believe Satan is bad, what did they expect.” Or “they should change the name of the organization and they won’t get the outrage.”
Here’s the deal. We’re outraged by this school’s actions. We’re looking at ways to correct the situation, and keep it from happening again through legal channels, and arguing in good faith for the law that best serves the entire population. We don’t threaten the preacher with violence, we don’t terrorize the school administration or student body. We may sound angry but we’re never cruel. Not even random atheists in the community are getting that worked up. But time and again the Christians are there, being terrorists to get their way. Or lying about what happened, what damage was caused or even being expected to be tolerant. Kennedy wasn’t fired, he lied about what happened. The cake people weren’t being forced to be a part of a wedding they didn’t believe in, they lied about the damage. And the website lady was never asked to make a get wedding website, she lied about being forced into tolerance. A Minnesota district had to reinstate the pledge of allegiance at Al school board meetings after credible death threats were made, that isn’t civilized behavior, that is straight up, the very definition of, terrorism. And yet atheists always painted as villains, just because we don’t let your unconstitutional behavior slide. I’m saying we need to be more clear about who the villains are, and keep calling them what they are, terrorists. And remind some that they’re defending terrorism.
I’m pretty sure I’ve made this point many times before.
The problem as I see it is that they are getting more bold with their bizarreness. They think acts like this win them points but it doesn’t. I feel bad for the kids
While religion and morality are not mutually exclusive, they are very far from the same thing. I cannot see anything remotely moral about this act of mind-numbing stupidity this basketball coach signed off on. This was all about one narrow view of religion being forced on teenagers by a man in a position of authority. This coach should lose his job, as should any administrator at that school who signed off on it. Conservative Christians NEVER stop trying to force their religion into the public schools paid for with everyone's tax dollars. It speaks directly to just how weak their message really is.
Ok, so "Adult guy rewards teen guys with the opportunity to wash other teen guys' feet".
This summary precedes either a borderline-unreadable piece of online fetish porn or a story about Christian Nationalism.
Christians continue to falsely accuse LGBTQs and atheists of pushing an agenda while simultaneously pushing their own very real agenda.
OT, but I just read the drag queen Baptist preacher in yesterday's post was found dead by suicide.
It has become the game of Theofascist Whac-a-mole. The individual events are becoming so common that people are going to be worn down into acquiescence. These people are committed dominionists and are using easy access to kids to propagandize them. it won't take with many of the kids, but it will with some. Read the beginning of Bart Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus' and you can get an appreciation for the years-long rabbit hole kids can fall into because of something like this.
This sounds like that "grooming of our kids" that Christians like to prattle on about.
I've always found it telling just how often Christians feel the need to violate laws, social standards, or general expectations to make sure they have the chance to push their faith on everyone else. At some point, I feel it reveals a massive insecurity about their beliefs that they just can't seem to stop taking over every public or private space. Their insistence on being the only exception to any rules forbidding such behavior only makes it worse.
I also think it's very telling that Christians so often go after young people, specifically because those young people don't have the experience to push back on some of the things so often claimed by proselytizing evangelists. It seems to me that these Christian evangelists are looking for what might be termed soft targets, and they're completely willing to do whatever is needed to get at them. When you break it down, incidents like this one show a staggering lack of religious faith and display a deep insecurity about how much the Christians think their God loves them.
It'd be nice if the major news outlets would call them on this crap more often. I can't see it happening, but it would be nice.
Fortner: "Okay boys, you wash each other's feet while I wash your brains."
One of the boys: "Praise Jesus!"
Most of the boys: (silently) "Whatever. I guess I gotta go along with this bullshit or Coach will be pissed."
Two or three of the boys: (silently) "I hate this. I think it's illegal. I can't wait to get outa this school."
_____
"Fortner deleted it. But not before it was shared on TikTok by a concerned woman (who also deleted her video to avoid local backlash)."
Breaking the law for Jesus, covering up the crime for Jesus, lying about it for Jesus, coercion for Jesus, harassment for Jesus, threats of violence for Jesus, (not many more steps) killing for Jesus.
Sometimes it's not a dismissable "slippery slope argument." Sometimes it's a predictable progression. The progression is almost never within one individual. Each person's ethical compromise gives permission for another, less ethical person to take the next step, and so on until a seriously disturbed individual feels his step is now permissible.
I once won a three point competition in middle school, and won a prize. I didn't mind that it was a biblical prize. My prize was that I was allowed to plunder rival Millard Fillmore Middle School. I burnt the crops, salted the land, killed the men, boys and those women who had know a man. And I was allowed to carry off any virgin girls I could find. You would think there would be a lot those, but it was Millard Fillmore Middle School we are talking about.
Imagine if a rabbi was brought in. Or a Satanic Church high priest. I’d love to see that! Or rather the reaction to it. Uber Christians, the most Jesus-y of them all, who have not one atom of irony in their brains, would spontaneously combust. Problem solved? 😆 Sorry, I live in Texas. It’s laugh or cry here.
First, Kennedy sued over losing his job over his personal religious liberty (the fact that he wasn’t fired or his liberty wasn’t violated wasn’t relevant to the SCROTUS decision, which is the travesty of the decision, didn’t stop him from appealing). This has none of that issue. There’s no coach or teacher rights involved. They shouldn’t be inviting preachers to practices, but doing so isn’t a personal religious act, like prayer is. It cannot be construed as a personal religious act, because it wasn’t for the coach or teacher, it was for the team. Kennedy got away with his shit because he claimed he was just praying to himself, everyone else just thought it was a good idea on their own (cough*bullshit*cough). This was a deliberate act to coerce the players, not even coerce them, force them into a religious sermon.
I won’t say they will never get away with it, because we all know what is going on in this country and there’s going to be a corrupt judge somewhere to let this slide, most likely the SCROTUS. They are well versed in writing prose that defends the indefensible at the request of the most corrupt. And they have the motivation to do so.
Second, every volunteer that enters the schools are subject to background checks, even parents. I have to get, and pay for, a background check every five years to be able to spend time in my children’s classrooms, or after school activity as a volunteer. Me, a parent of one of the students involved, needs to be checked out to ensure I will not harm the kids. I’m wondering if this preacher had a background check. Was he put under the same scrutiny that a parent would have to undergo to have access to these students, especially since it is clear he was in the locker room with them. He has access to the area and time of the most intimate moments of an athletic practice, and it isn’t clear that he was fully vetted. Why do I think he wasn’t fully vetted? Because to do the volunteer paperwork, someone had to explain who he was and what he was doing there, and there should have been flags raised at that time. So, the question is, did he get vetted or did more people than the coaches involved ignore the laws? Neither is a good look for the school.
I wish this type of violation showed up on background checks so that these zealous preachers would fail them and not have access to children’s locker rooms. But I know that even obvious sexual violations don’t get flagged when the community or churches don’t want their preachers held accountable. Impregnating a teenager doesn’t get caught on these things if he marries her. Shit like that. So, why would something like this make anyone take pause. Our system is so fucked up.
Anyway, third, washing of feet isn’t a mainstream Christian activity. I’m not sure if it’s all that specific to a sect that is not well known or liked, but maybe it’s something different enough that will have even Christians take offense. I mean, they’re mad over the Devil’s Birthday, sorry Halloween, that they don’t understand that it is a fully Christian holiday, they may be ignorant enough to get upset that this preacher is doing some pagan ritual with their kids. One can only hope.
Someone has a foot fetish! :-P
I can't see this as being very effective even if it were legal. Your 'prize' is to do crap labor that doesn't need to be done. This doesn't teach a lesson about service to your fellow man. Talk them into volunteering at the local food bank, if you want to teach them that.
"It was lesson in teamwork, not proselytizing you godless heathen."
So sad about Bubba.
Too bad this ritual of service couldn't be extended IRL instead it's just proselytizing impressionable kids.